[Official] HP Mafia - MVP: Aage - Archive

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Thinking about it, Minerva wouldnt have needed a wand to be a watcher. She could just switch to tabby cat form and watch unnoticed.

I dont like the idea of killers using non-wand weapons. Doesnt fit with the flavour. I dont know mafia roles well enough to comment on whether there are going to be non-wand roles in mafia.

[Ragian]

Whether deg should or should not divulge his information has two sides to it as I see it. On the one hand, it would be nice for town to have all the information in case deg dies tonight. On the other hand, however, and in this case I'd say that this weighs heavier, knowing a player with no wand (like Stor who said he did not have a wand and also no night action) should prove more valuable knowledge for scum than town given that scum then can narrow down their targets for N2. For that reason, I think deg should hold his cards close to his chest for the moment.

Guessing whether or not a wand is a must for watching, for killing, for whatever is fruitless at this stage as we don't have anything to back it up with unless people claim their powers and how they used them last night. I think it only adds to the confusion at this point. I may be coloured by the my limited knowledge of the flavour, but I still maintain that point.

D1, I had my eyes on charm. Not because she the only girl in the pack (right?), but because I found her behaviour scummy. But if she was indeed hit with something of a malign character last night, it would suggest that she's town. It doesn't necessarily mean that she's town, it suggests it. I think someone mentioned that obviously she could've been bussed. However, I will have a go at taking my blinders off for now.

This is all I have time for now as I'm arriving at my station now. Stupid work... To be continued (but probably not today).

[charm]

I would assume that Minerva had a wand too. I also wonder if mafia kills someone does that mean they have the wand or does the wand disappear/die with the character??

It may be nothing, or something, I don't know and not that it matters since I don't count today! So, don't bother with paying any attention to me if you don't want to.

[degaston]

Deg's investigation last night shows there to at least be players without wands, or without active abilities if I have interpreted it correctly.

Storr claims to have no active abilities:

I claimed everything about my role. No wand, no night action, day action etc.

It is possible that he's lying, but I don't think so at this point. But even if a player does not have a wand, that may not mean that they have no abilities. There could be potions, charmed/enchanted (is there a difference?) objects, etc. and from the HP Wiki: "Goblins have their own type of magic and can do magic without a wand." Maybe there's a mountain troll or basilisk serial killer? We haven't seen any of these yet, but with a game this big, I would think that anything is possible.

We had claims D1 of Kingsley - Double Voter, Mad-Eye & Harry Potter. (If there were anymore please correct me)

There's also Filch. And we have confirmation of Snape and McGonagall.

So Strikewolf, a town watcher, who believes there to be no vanilla roles, pops up and says "oooh look at me I'm town" and thus takes the nightkill which you have to think would be better served by shooting the claimed Auror... Is this actually a bad play? I think its a really clever unselfish play. It annoys me how many people are very protective of their own skin, when if you are a low power role, stand up and take the hit for the team.

What are you referring to here? How did strike pop up and say "oooh look at me I'm town"?

Side note: Are there any mafia roles which dont have actives?

Here's the wiki page on passive roles:
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Category:Passive_roles
Some are pro-town, some anti, and some either.

I suppose mafia goon falls into that category, but they must need a wand to cast avadra kevadra if called upon.

Again from the wiki, a mafia goon "can make the factional kill, and they can speak to the other scum when allowed to do so, but that's it." Don't all mafia have to be able to kill at night, or else it would be very hard for them to win if the only ones left had no night-kill?

Is the person Deg investigated last night confirmed non-mafia? If so, is it beneficial to Town for Deg to say who that was?

I have no indication of this person's alignment. I assume that if we get close to lynching them, then I should reveal what I know?

[got tonkaed]

I could be wrong here, but if you don't have information indicative of their alignment, but you are out there and you have information to share, I feel like it makes sense to share.

[skillfusniper33]

Thinking about it, Minerva wouldnt have needed a wand to be a watcher. She could just switch to tabby cat form and watch unnoticed.

I dont like the idea of killers using non-wand weapons. Doesnt fit with the flavour. I dont know mafia roles well enough to comment on whether there are going to be non-wand roles in mafia.

If you are looking only on flavor, Voldemort wouldn't allow anyone to join him if they weren't deemed a pure blood, and thus be able to use magic, and with most of his members being wizards I would assume all of them would have a wand, even if they had a passive role. If deg were to investigate a wizard then they would have a wand on them at all times, even if it wasn't necessary for their role, since the wand is the main way that magic is used in this series.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

"Being an Animagus is an ability, and Transfiguring requires a spell" - from the Harry Potter Wiki.

My assumption about Minerva was far from correct.

I like Snipers point about pure blood, but I also like Deg's point about the Basilisk being a very dangerous not wand bearing character. Dont think we have enough information at this stage to know alignment from someone being wandless.

[got tonkaed]

I don't know that a ton of flavor spec is helpful, as to be honest, the mod can do what they would like. I feel like we are better served taking a look at who might be scum aligned.

I do agree with the slightly scummy read for Dazza as, there has been primarily bandwagoning voting from him.

Having said that though, we probably could lean on people who have not been very active at this point to try and draw out some new thoughts.

[*Pixar*]

So just a clairification, MTAM cannot be night killed? seems odd to me...

[dazza2008]

I don't see how I was bandwagoning at all. Maybe when i voted Storr. I agreed with BG's points at that time though so i agreed and voted. I voted Mtam cos he was being a dick. I would vote him for playing like that in any game. I was the first to vote Persh i think so can that be bandwagoning?

Tyring to read back.

[Epitaph1]

VOTE COUNT

mtamburini - Pixar, mitch
Pixar - mtamburini, Streaker, degaston, tonka
tonka - dd
Dazza - HotShot

With 22 alive, it takes 12 to lynch

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Ok I am confused here. Dega got massively pushed after his slightly over eager push on Mtam.

My confusion is because Got Tonkaed also pushed hard on Mtam claimed, yet somehow managed to walk away scott free.

FOS on Got Tonkaed, he has pushed against all those who have claimed townie claims, defended Sempai's actions after he claimed double voter, and consistently ignored Streaker and Aage's advice not to waste time on Mtam. Not sure why Mafia would be THAT active in pushing though. I do suspect this is probably how I come across in a lot of games, but then I at least expect to get some pressure. Here there is none and I dont get why.

FOS on Raigon, I cant work out why but I dont like his posting. If I ever work out why I'll let you all know. For now I'll just keep a close eye on him to see if I can work out what is bugging me.

@Mudpuppy, you've clearly been paying attention all game as you pop up with the odd irrelevant comment often. Now please give your reads from the game.

Mets has been posting gameplay crap all game not just the last couple of days. BG defended this on the basis that Mtam got away with being a twat so why shouldnt Mets. I'd like to point out that Mtam did not get away with being a twat, he was forced to claim.

@Pixar - The answer to that question is more beneficial to mafia than town, so lets leave it as an unknown and let them be confused. Also I now believe you to be town because of why you asked the question. I can explain that if anyone wants, but I dont see the benefit.

Aage is a clever player, thats not alignment indicative, just means you wont catch him till later in the game if he is.

LOL at the deadline lynch btw, how did you lot go from "lets tie" to overwhelmingly in favour of lynching Pershy?

[aage]

I have managed to steal my girlfriend's phone so I can make one short post now.

I want to respond to a lot of things so I'll just respond to one thing: why I voted for Pershy.

Deg already mentioned it: I wanted to avoid a tie. Storr forced a push back on Pershy which divided the votes so much that deg wasn't getting lynched. I did want a lynch. Hence I voted the most likely candidate. Call me a band wagoner but the day could end at any second and I didn't want to risk no lynch.

More on Sunday as I'll be back home then.

[strike wolf]

I have managed to steal my girlfriend's phone so I can make one short post now.

I want to respond to a lot of things so I'll just respond to one thing: why I voted for Pershy.

Deg already mentioned it: I wanted to avoid a tie. Storr forced a push back on Pershy which divided the votes so much that deg wasn't getting lynched. I did want a lynch. Hence I voted the most likely candidate. Call me a band wagoner but the day could end at any second and I didn't want to risk no lynch.

More on Sunday as I'll be back home then.

This is pretty much the answer I was expecting from Aage and it's not a bad one. Thing is Dega, I wasn't going for the tie either when I voted Pershy, I realized there were others out there who were likely to vote and I could have sat back and let one of them vote it into a tie scenario and been there to vote you if it had gone over, if that is what I wanted but frankly, no lynch is rarely better than lynching someone on Day 1.

As for Dega, The value of knowing who he targeted is more important right now based on whether one feels that Dega is town or scum. If you believe that Dega is town than no there isn't really a good reason to reveal who he targeted last night. If you doubt him however, you would probably want to find out who he visited to see if that can be challenged. For the remainder of this post I am going to go off the assumption that he is town which right now I think is reasonably likely:

In regards to the wand issue and what it means, well for his ability to be most effective than there would be at least a couple killers who use wands (and I suspect there are at least that many). However there could also be someone who avoids this by not using a wand. Some mentioned the Basilisk. Other possibilities could be Voldemort's snake Nagina or Fenrir Greyback and that is assuming we stick more or less to character flavor. So I would agree that one not having a wand does not prove character alignment. What it could do is show someone to be less of a threat which could be a bad thing (as others say, false read on low power by town if the investigated party is mafia, shrink the field of possible power role characters for mafia if hte investigated party is town).

Where did I suggest the game was NV? I saw Wing mention that but I don't remember stating it.

[mtamburini]

When does day end? Ive got some time after i sleep to read through, anything important to read?

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Where did I suggest the game was NV? I saw Wing mention that but I don't remember stating it.

Feck - You didnt, Streaker did. Slightly alters my logic a bit. Still doesnt change the fact that losing a town watcher is much more preferable to losing a claimed auror.

[Streaker]

So just a clairification, MTAM cannot be night killed? seems odd to me...

You know you are under pressure, yet you continue to pounce the Mtam claim?
Let me ask you: how do you see an answer to that question as beneficial to town?

@Mtamb: no deadline yet. Though curious you'd enquire about this.

So many players not posting... let alone vote. We ain't getting nowhere at this pace.

Interesting reads by wing. Will reread before commenting on these.

Another interesting observation: so many players complaining on D1 that they found it too damn difficult to contribute, because of the sheer amount of posts (or the amount of nonsense being posted so they don't feel like posting themselves). Yet this day none of this is happening, a few cases being brought forward and yet a lot LESS activity. Perhaps go back and see whom these complainers were, as it looks like they were just hiding.

This actually proves that those 'useless' discussions actually contributed to the activity level of the general thread.

[Metsfanmax]

This actually proves that those 'useless' discussions actually contributed to the activity level of the general thread.

Yes, and our D1 results were just so excellent because of it.

So Strikewolf, a town watcher, who believes there to be no vanilla roles, pops up and says "oooh look at me I'm town" and thus takes the nightkill which you have to think would be better served by shooting the claimed Auror... Is this actually a bad play?

Well, by definition, yes. If he got the NK, that means mafia thinks he was more important to town than anyone else they knew about. And this would be a reasonable choice anyway given the power of a watcher in this game, even before whatever knowledge they have that we don't.

Mafia would have known that Mtam and Storr were non-mafia, so would be quite willing to push those two cases amidst the town confusion of what on earth the two of them were playing at.

It is not clear to me how much scum were involved in that. Town was doing an excellent job confusing itself D1, they probably could have stepped back and just watched it unfold. I'm not even sure there were scum leading the Pershy mislynch, it could just have been an honest -- but poorly executed -- mistake.

Doing the best I can under these conditions, and I feel like nobody is really following me on my reads.

I think you may have had something on dazza on D1 -- I paid more attention to this after I saw Hotshot's vote today -- but yes, no one is following you on it. Not much you can do with that.

Ok you made your point, but for me personally I don't know any other way to play this game.

Sometimes the way to play this game isn't to force it to do what you want but to think more as a passive observer. The fact is that in a 24 player game, there's not a whole lot you can do once the mob has decided what it wants to do. Usually the only way to really force something in the early days is to go ballistic like mtam has done, and the consequences aren't usually pretty.

There are a lot of ways one can go and it is easy to get paralyzed by too many options. So instead of overanalyzing, you make the best decision you can with the evidence available to you, and you make rational arguments to convince people of your case, but you can't get frustrated when things don't go the way they want. It's very unlikely that anything that happens on D1 or D2 is damning to either town or mafia, so it's OK if we have a few missteps along the way as long as they tell us interesting things. (I was annoyed at the pershy thing because I don't think it gave us much, unfortunately.)

But if [charm] was indeed hit with something of a malign character last night, it would suggest that she's town.

I don't think so, given the multitude of likely factions that exist in this game.

[Streaker]

mtam is still playing like a dick even though he is claiming HP. But seriously I have no idea why some people still push it as no one else has claimed HP. And unless the mod is seriously twisted and didn't put HP in the game but gave the big V that fake claim then the entire argument is a waste of time.

And really, storr as a topic of conversation still. I see it two ways with him. Either A - he really is a survivor and a vocal one that gets lots of attention at that. Which is just fine because we had one kill last night people and that means I think several people targeted storr and mtam and canceled or blocked each others powers. So I would totally buy that whatever mtam claimed to have sent never made it.

The other option is storr is full of BS and has one hell of a fake claim. I mean lets be honest here, Filch was a fairly useless character in the story. Always present, but never really active. Several characters fit that as well but storr is only one so far to come forward and claim it. Could he be a death eater right under our noses and lying to us even now? Absolutely. Do I think it matters regardless at the moment? Hell no. He is drawing far too much attention to himself and someone will again no doubt target him tonight so either way I think looking at him any more is a complete waste of time.

There were however quite a few last minute vote hoppers before the end of day one we may benefit from looking at. Will go back and relook at those tonight and see what stands out.

So how about those reads?

Also, how can you comment on how Storr and Mtam are a distraction, but you spend about 80% of your only post (with content) on D2 on them.

[Streaker]

I would assume that Minerva had a wand too. I also wonder if mafia kills someone does that mean they have the wand or does the wand disappear/die with the character??

It may be nothing, or something, I don't know and not that it matters since I don't count today! So, don't bother with paying any attention to me if you don't want to.

Quit the cryptographic talk please. Either you have usefull information and you tell us, or you were hit with something you don't want to share and then you shouldn't have brought it up.

You don't count today? Are you hit with a spell that stops you from making reads?

[degaston]

Where did I suggest the game was NV? I saw Wing mention that but I don't remember stating it.

Feck - You didnt, Streaker did. Slightly alters my logic a bit. Still doesnt change the fact that losing a town watcher is much more preferable to losing a claimed auror.

I'll mention this again in case you missed it, I think my role is essentially a follower.

The Follower is an informative role that can target a player at Night and learn what form of action they took that Night (investigation, protection, killing, etc), but not who they targeted.

In my opinion, my role may be somewhat less valuable than a watcher, because I can only get information about wand actions, and right now we don't know if all actions require a wand. Also, keep in mind that because the order of the night action mechanics (listed in the first post) I can't find out about a killing curse or recruitment spell (if such a thing exists) until the night after it happens. (I think the same thing would be true of the Watcher)

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

The crucial thing that I may have missed - Did you mention this prior to N1? Going into N1, was it known that you were a claimed Auror, or was it known that you were specifically a follower?

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

He hasnt claimed cop, he claimed an investigative role that he didnt specify.

I don't know if there is a role that exactly matches a cop. I am able to cast Prior Incantato once each night to learn the last spell cast from someone's wand.

Ok so they knew you had claimed flavour cop prior to N1. A weak investigative role, especially weak N1 as no avadra kevadra has yet been cast. An unknown role would be expected to be greater in power, town watcher is on the weak side, but arguably stronger than flavour cop.

(Flavour Cop because you can find last nights killer if they do not cast another spell prior to you investigating - rather than Follower)

This is now a semantics argument that has run its course and possibly distracting.

[degaston]

I was making a more detailed reply when you fp'd me, but I see that you found where I claimed. This being my second mafia game, I was unaware of the Follower role, or I probably would have mentioned that first. I just found out about Flavor Cop from your post, but after looking at it, it's still my opinion that I'm closer to a follower. Epitaph resent the role PM's with stuff in blue that could be revealed, so that's what I included in my post.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Seeing as you are second behind Mtam as mostly likely to be Town, (I am wary of Pius Thicknesse/Yaxley with regard to Sempai), what are your reads at the moment.