New Briarsburg Mafia. Town Wins! Ga7 wins the premium prize!

[pmchugh]

unvote vote jace.

[ga7]

I don't understand how Haggis' story fits. Sure he knew he didn't steal anything but the fact he included the gun story is clearly something to cover that story in his claim.

Anyway I have a supicion here that Haggis is playing a stunt as godfather in sacrifcing one of his noob followers for the greater good - just a theory for now.. but it won't harm lynching either.

That's what I think of it, althought it's not sure Jace is really scum seeing his behaviour so far and his defense it's pretty likely.

While I'm doubtful of the gun story let's put it aside for a minute, as several other elements don't quite fit to me.
-Haggis claims to be a FBI/Profiler agent. He explains he's hunting his ennemy yaddayadda. Then he gives out results like any cop. Why would it basically work like a supercop that can basically detect the godfather? It defeats the purpose of the godfather even more than Commander's lie about his gunsmithing identifying it.
-If he's a supercop why would he get me as just "innocent" and Jace "mafia" when I'm third party?
-From what I gather he'd be a second cop, which is odd.
-According to his story he got the Jace scum result on Night 2. Well even if it was on Night 3 it doesn't change a thing, look at the beginning of today the quick succession of posts:

guess we won't find out until tomorrow who the 3rd victim is then. Now I'm curious.

Someone was possibly poisoned during the night

Might be nothing, I'm guessing there'll be some luck involved.

Who the hell showers when they're drunk anyway?

That alone proves that Haggis had no intention to ever out Jace as scum unless he was about to be lynched, which makes no sense in a town perspective. If his supposed investigation did happen night 2 I'm sure we won't find any strong pushing for Jace from Haggis the previous day. In short, it's BS. All evidence points to the godfather being caught, which would obviously be better to lynch since he might be bulletproof as opposed to Jace.

[ga7]

Another point that bugs me is :

Just wanted to let you all know I investigated Haggis tonight and he is the one with my own gun and 100% definitely Mafia.

I suppose that part wasn't made up.
To which Haggis answers:

Anyway, you shouldn't trust backstory so readily, it'd be kind of weird if Mr.Squirrel subverted the role of gunsmith like that by basically telling you with 100% certainty that someone is scum, wouldn't it?

So far the backstory matches perfectly. If Commander indeed had the certitude that the owner of his gun was scum I don't see how it wouldn't fit. I think you fucked up your fakeclaim actually, because as Thief it would work out perfectly that you could have gotten that gun. The only other option I see is that you'd be framed by a Mafia Framer, but since you went out of your way to explain how you'd gotten this gun it can't be that either. So that's another element against the claim.

[Jace22]

jeezes I try to study all day and this happens. I'll claim now since it is getting close to my lynch. I'm a doctor. Nights 1 and 2, I protected herk since he seemed to possibly put a target on his back by being the focus of attention on those days and last night I protected commander since he seems to be one of the more valuable members we still have alive.

[nagerous]

unvote for now, if you're carrying a weapon on you come tomorrow though your ass is toast as I see no reason why you would.

[nagerous]

Victor is lying about him vistiting the Herk on night one. Only Blake and Fircoal vistied Herk night one.

Vote Victor

Also sax dont say anything about other games in here whether its true or not

remembered this

unvote vote jace

[ga7]

Yep, Jace is a guaranteed scum because of it. I'd like to sort out the Haggis case first though because if he's indeed GF he can't be NKed, which will take an extra phase compared to lynching Haggis and shooting Jace. Since the poisoning is still going I wouldn't want an extra chance of that shit killing someone because we wasted time unnecessarily. Not everyone might agree on this time management but it would at least be helpful to hear from Commander & Haggis on the points I made.

[spiesr]

Wow, decisions decisions. The way I see it. there are now two viable targets for a lynch Haggis, and jace.
First of all, as expected, once ga7 applied himself to this day, he was able to come up with a compelling case. In this case, it is for lynching haggis. He makes some compelling points, that together with my own thoughts cause me to have serious doubt that Haggis is what he says he is.

But then:

jeezes I try to study all day and this happens. I'll claim now since it is getting close to my lynch. I'm a doctor. Nights 1 and 2, I protected herk since he seemed to possibly put a target on his back by being the focus of attention on those days and last night I protected commander since he seems to be one of the more valuable members we still have alive.

Lies!
Jace22 goes and makes this blatantly false claim. There is no way that this claim is true, so I guess he must be scum. Vote Jace
I do still think that Haggis is definitely a good candidate for being scum. He definitely deserves to be looked at some more, and is a serious target for tomorrow's lynch. That said however, I can't ignore a scum as obvious as jace22 has become...

[theherkman]

Yep, Jace is a guaranteed scum because of it. I'd like to sort out the Haggis case first though because if he's indeed GF he can't be NKed, which will take an extra phase compared to lynching Haggis and shooting Jace. Since the poisoning is still going I wouldn't want an extra chance of that shit killing someone because we wasted time unnecessarily. Not everyone might agree on this time management but it would at least be helpful to hear from Commander & Haggis on the points I made.

Both Commander and I are safe tonight, poison or no.

[theherkman]

jeezes I try to study all day and this happens. I'll claim now since it is getting close to my lynch. I'm a doctor. Nights 1 and 2, I protected herk since he seemed to possibly put a target on his back by being the focus of attention on those days and last night I protected commander since he seems to be one of the more valuable members we still have alive.

Jace is not a doctor. I know for certain that he is not a town doctor. Vote Jace22. I am not counterclaiming, but I do know who the doctors are. Jace is not one of them.

[theherkman]

Nice job screwing yourself over, Jace. Have you not read that "Team Rocket" includes the town docs? BUSTED!!

[theherkman]

I would also like to take a moment to not for posterity sake: I did NOT know about fircoal. The only reason I wouldn't know about a doc would be if they were not town aligned. Fircoal was 3rd party, that is why I didn't know about him. Jace, if you are a 3rd party, then tell us who you are working with as a doc. My role PM says that all docs will be in a group. If you get another member of your group to verify that you are a doc, I will make sure you are not lynched. No one else post until he answers please.

[naxus]

just to screw with herk, i would like to post now,

also nice quad

[spiesr]

I would also like to take a moment to not for posterity sake: I did NOT know about fircoal. The only reason I wouldn't know about a doc would be if they were not town aligned. Fircoal was 3rd party, that is why I didn't know about him. Jace, if you are a 3rd party, then tell us who you are working with as a doc. My role PM says that all docs will be in a group. If you get another member of your group to verify that you are a doc, I will make sure you are not lynched. No one else post until he answers please.

And the ego is back. Did we miss it? On another note, we know he is lying about his actions. He did not visit you night 1. Since he lied about that I see no reason to think that he would actually some sort of third party doctor other than perhaps a scum doctor. Also, it does not appear that Fircoal was third party. He wasn't in Team Rocket and was also not a doctor, but his role is listed in blue and appears to be town.

[nagerous]

I would also like to take a moment to not for posterity sake: I did NOT know about fircoal. The only reason I wouldn't know about a doc would be if they were not town aligned. Fircoal was 3rd party, that is why I didn't know about him. Jace, if you are a 3rd party, then tell us who you are working with as a doc. My role PM says that all docs will be in a group. If you get another member of your group to verify that you are a doc, I will make sure you are not lynched. No one else post until he answers please.

And the ego is back. Did we miss it? On another note, we know he is lying about his actions. He did not visit you night 1. Since he lied about that I see no reason to think that he would actually some sort of third party doctor other than perhaps a scum doctor. Also, it does not appear that Fircoal was third party. He wasn't in Team Rocket and was also not a doctor, but his role is listed in blue and appears to be town.

Word.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Have you not read that "Team Rocket"...

He wasn't in Team Rocket...

I would like to congratulate the dear departed aage on making this a viable term in this game. It amuses me to no end.

**high-fives the corpse of aage**

P.S. I think fircoal would appreciate it as well.

-Tails

[Thezzaruz]

I would also like to take a moment to not for posterity sake: I did NOT know about fircoal. The only reason I wouldn't know about a doc would be if they were not town aligned. Fircoal was 3rd party, that is why I didn't know about him. Jace, if you are a 3rd party, then tell us who you are working with as a doc.

I'd say that chu's death scene proves you wrong, he showed up as town.

[Haggis_McMutton]

-Haggis claims to be a FBI/Profiler agent. He explains he's hunting his ennemy yaddayadda. Then he gives out results like any cop. Why would it basically work like a supercop that can basically detect the godfather? It defeats the purpose of the godfather even more than Commander's lie about his gunsmithing identifying it.

I don't know exactly how it works. I wasn't explicitly told if I'd find the godfather guilty as well or not. There are many possibilities.
Maybe there are indeed 2 mafias, and I can detect one godfather while someone else(Commander?) can detect the other.

-If he's a supercop why would he get me as just "innocent" and Jace "mafia" when I'm third party?

I "profile" people. The profiles either match "criminal profiles" or they don't. Yours didn't, Jace's did.

-According to his story he got the Jace scum result on Night 2. Well even if it was on Night 3 it doesn't change a thing, look at the beginning of today the quick succession of posts:

guess we won't find out until tomorrow who the 3rd victim is then. Now I'm curious.

Someone was possibly poisoned during the night

Might be nothing, I'm guessing there'll be some luck involved.

Who the hell showers when they're drunk anyway?

That alone proves that Haggis had no intention to ever out Jace as scum unless he was about to be lynched, which makes no sense in a town perspective. If his supposed investigation did happen night 2 I'm sure we won't find any strong pushing for Jace from Haggis the previous day. In short, it's BS. All evidence points to the godfather being caught, which would obviously be better to lynch since he might be bulletproof as opposed to Jace.

Come on ga7, really? You see no reason why i would not say "hey Jace is guilty" off the bat?
I'll give you two:
1. I wanted to see if Commander had gotten another guilty result. He's already a claimed investigator, if he had already gotten another scum, there would be no point in me revealing myself as that would only increase the scums chances of killing an investigative role in the night.
2. Even if Commander didn't catch anyone else, aren't you supposed to try to get a lynch on the person without revealing first? After seeing if Commander had caught anything, and assuming he didn't, I would have made a case against Jace and tried to put pressure on him without actually claiming. Assuming he played as badly as he did today we might have just got him without me being revealed. Only if this second course of action would have failed as well, then i would have claimed.

It seems Jace will be lynched, as he should be(he's obviously lying about protecting herk on D1).
I've got another exam in a couple of hours so I'm going to say this now:

1. Herk, if you indeed know 1 or more doctors and weren't explicitly told that they are town, consider the possibility that one of them might be the killer doc. Don't post anything here unless you've got serious suspicions, but talk to them or whatever.

2. Probably goes without saying, but I'd appreciate some protection tonight, or at least the possibility of protection, that might deter scum by itself.

[Thezzaruz]

Time to board the "bash Haggis claim" train me thinks. IMO his claim has so many issues and inconsistencies that I just can't believe it to be true.


The Gun/backstory issue:

Anyway, you shouldn't trust backstory so readily, it'd be kind of weird if Mr.Squirrel subverted the role of gunsmith like that by basically telling you with 100% certainty that someone is scum, wouldn't it?

Why would a definitive result be weird? Of course any in-game results have the possibility of being wrong due to other in-game effects but as Haggis himself has debunked both the possibility of some sort of thief or of a bus ride I can't see what other effect that would be in the works here. What would be weird though is targeted backstoryies like these that completely contradicts each other.
As I see it either Haggis or Commander has outright lied in their claims or Mr. S has lied to either, or both, of them in the backstory. I'd say the safe money is on Haggis being the odd one out here.


The role issue Pt1:

Basically I'm an FBI agent/profiler, and I'm hunting down the head of the mafia

So far i know that ga7 isn't in the mafia I'm hunting and Jace IS.

Really? So you are both hunting scum in general and looking for a specific role. That seems somewhat over powered tbh. Also I find it interesting that Haggis thinks having the role of Gunsmith looking for a specific gun is so "subverted" that it shouldn't be believed but he has no quarrels with his own FBI Agent claim being quite different from usual.


The role issue Pt2:

-Haggis claims to be a FBI/Profiler agent. He explains he's hunting his ennemy yaddayadda. Then he gives out results like any cop. Why would it basically work like a supercop that can basically detect the godfather? It defeats the purpose of the godfather even more than Commander's lie about his gunsmithing identifying it.

Not much to add here. The Gunsmiths backstory could in theory be messed with by a thief (but as Haggis has already ruled that out himself...) but the Agent/Profiler wouldn't thus making it an even more powerful role. And having 2 roles that's specifically looking for the same guy seems over the top to me.


The results issue:

So far i know that ga7 isn't in the mafia I'm hunting and Jace IS.

Correct. The third one i profiled(and didn't mention cause it's useless now) is strike.

So you get "innocent" on the confirmed townie strike, you get "innocent" on the widely believed ga7 and you get "scum" on the almost universally suspected Jace. That's just to neat and perfect for me. And while I don't see the logic in the chosen targets that is a smaller issue than what ga7 found (see below).


The show and tell issue:

-According to his story he got the Jace scum result on Night 2. Well even if it was on Night 3 it doesn't change a thing, look at the beginning of today the quick succession of posts:

That alone proves that Haggis had no intention to ever out Jace as scum unless he was about to be lynched, which makes no sense in a town perspective. If his supposed investigation did happen night 2 I'm sure we won't find any strong pushing for Jace from Haggis the previous day. In short, it's BS.

Have to agree. Not outing a confirmed scum until you need some distraction from a lynchwagon on yourself really isn't a townie thing to do (well maybe on D2 but not now).


In conclusion:

All evidence points to the godfather being caught, which would obviously be better to lynch since he might be bulletproof as opposed to Jace.

I agree fully. As scummy as Jace looks I do think that the rewards of lynching Haggis and thus removing a scum GF possessing an object/artefact important enough to have it's own backstory far outweighs the risks. Especially considering that any investigation/NK to be made is much more likely to fail if done against Haggis.

[Thezzaruz]

I don't know exactly how it works. I wasn't explicitly told if I'd find the godfather guilty as well or not. There are many possibilities.

So when you earlier claimed that you

Basically I'm an FBI agent/profiler, and I'm hunting down the head of the mafia.

you just made that up or??? You really can't both be specifically looking for a GF and not being able to find him tbh, that would make no sense at all.

Maybe there are indeed 2 mafias, and I can detect one godfather while someone else(Commander?) can detect the other.

You know that is the first thing you've said the whole day that actually makes sense. I still don't believe you but at least it makes sense.

[Haggis_McMutton]

I don't know exactly how it works. I wasn't explicitly told if I'd find the godfather guilty as well or not. There are many possibilities.

So when you earlier claimed that you

Basically I'm an FBI agent/profiler, and I'm hunting down the head of the mafia.

you just made that up or??? You really can't both be specifically looking for a GF and not being able to find him tbh, that would make no sense at all.

That was backstory. He's my personal enemy etc.
I wasn't specifically told if my power nullifies the godfathers "appearing innocent ability". My backstory seems to indicate so, but i don't like to make assumptions.

Also, really guys? It's universally believed that as soon as you get guilty on scum your first post of the day has to be "hey, I'm a cop, I got guilty on scum?". I'm not very experienced but that seems downright silly to me. Why give away info if you don't necessarily have to ...

[Thezzaruz]

Also, really guys? It's universally believed that as soon as you get guilty on scum your first post of the day has to be "hey, I'm a cop, I got guilty on scum?". I'm not very experienced but that seems downright silly to me. Why give away info if you don't necessarily have to ...

Of course it isn't (well not until late in the game at least). And if that was the only thing that looked scummy about you I would gladly unvote but as it's only another small pointer towards your scumminess I'll treat it like the final straw instead.

[ga7]

Haggis specifically told Strike was his third investigation. Then look this page at the beginning of Day 3.
Day has just started, Illy mentions Saxlad, and who bothers to dig up quotes, add arguments and vote Saxlad? Haggis. When no investigative role was out and according to him he would have tried to make a case on Jace without revealing his role.
viewtopic.php?f=213&t=129921&start=1350

That's a pwn no?

[theherkman]

Okay... Let's do this... Let's lynch Haggis today and I will take care of Jace22 tonight. We know they are both lying, that is all there is to it.

[karelpietertje]

I'll go with that, herkie.