[INTERMEDIATE]Enemy of My Enemy - Archive please

[Marashu]

DAILY VOTE COUNT:
LSU: TimWoodbury, Streaker (L-4)
Epitaph1: LSU (L-5)
madmitch: dakky (L-5)
Not Voting: Epitaph1, Ragian, HotShot, mtam, MrBelly, madmitch

Deadline is Tuesday, December 29, 1600CCT. With 10 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch. mtam has been prodded. Streaker has requested to be replaced. Expect a replacement soon.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Hiya Gang!

Now look here, Dakky is partially right, but the logic is still ridiculous. The issue we have right now is that the two anti-town parties are working together much more effectively than we are. Epi doesnt win if we team up with LSU against him. So screw Epi, hes played well but his game is over NOW.

LSU I offer you a parley on behalf of town. You say that you are the oracle and can undertake investigations. Can you please kill Mitch tonight and investigate Dakky please. (I havent put it past Epi to be so blatant with wifom). In return we will not lynch you today or tomorrow. As you are well aware we have no night powers to play tricks on this bargain.

Are you in? This allows you and your partner a shot at the end game, its win win.

Lynching someone who is not 100% confirmed non-town IS NOT going to help us. We lynch one of Epi or LSU today. No ifs no buts.

[Marashu]

WingCmdr Ginkapo will be replacing Streaker (OP will be updated after work)

[MrBellyBangBang]

Excuse me for not understanding. I need to question everything in order to play this game. If I hadn't, I wouldn't have understood what dakky was saying. That you. Belly, understood it before I did only speaks for your communication skills, it does not speak against my alignment. It's strange how one who participates and questions is worse off than others who do not.

Now, as dakky, said, I'm perfectly aware of the fact that we'll lose if scum get to orchestrate their kills. What strikes me as problematic is that we can't tell who the second of either faction is. Well, we can guess and take a chance and all that, but that doesn't give us scum no matter how stupid you find the other players.

What you propose is to hit the second person of one of the factions. Obviously, I can get with that, but it annoys me that you would only consider whoever is talking (it seems). Also, you seem to put an awful lot of confidence in confirmed anti-town's words. Why is that?

My communication skills aren't any better than most people, you had the opportunity to read all the information provided by dakky that was needed to draw the conclusion that we'd better off lynching non confirmed scum, and yet you didn't until everyone started saying it's a good idea, you have to admit that it doesn't look good on your resume. I agree that the quiet people really should be considered suspect but since we're at this time of the year I think there are reasons why many are busy (Christmas and family and what not.) Not saying that it makes it okay but I'm less suspicious than I otehrwise would've been. I think it's good streaker has been replaced.
What is it that Epi or LSU has said that you think I put a lot of trust in?

Hiya Gang!

Now look here, Dakky is partially right, but the logic is still ridiculous. The issue we have right now is that the two anti-town parties are working together much more effectively than we are. Epi doesnt win if we team up with LSU against him. So screw Epi, hes played well but his game is over NOW.

LSU I offer you a parley on behalf of town. You say that you are the oracle and can undertake investigations. Can you please kill Mitch tonight and investigate Dakky please. (I havent put it past Epi to be so blatant with wifom). In return we will not lynch you today or tomorrow. As you are well aware we have no night powers to play tricks on this bargain.

Are you in? This allows you and your partner a shot at the end game, its win win.

Lynching someone who is not 100% confirmed non-town IS NOT going to help us. We lynch one of Epi or LSU today. No ifs no buts.

That is ridiculous, are you sure you've been reading up on this thread? First off you'll get no deal with either faction, one of them will win if they both go for town for two nights in a row, they've already made a deal, a deal that is much better to hem than the one you are offering. Secondly why should we kill a confirmed antitown today when what we need is to take out a whole faction? And not merely scum. If we kill epi or LSU today, the only way that can be beneficial to town is if that players partner is revealed in the following nights investigation, an investigation that we have no control over and is unlikely to give us what we need.

[dakky21]

Are you in? This allows you and your partner a shot at the end game, its win win.

Lynching someone who is not 100% confirmed non-town IS NOT going to help us. We lynch one of Epi or LSU today. No ifs no buts.

That is ridiculous, are you sure you've been reading up on this thread? First off you'll get no deal with either faction, one of them will win if they both go for town for two nights in a row, they've already made a deal, a deal that is much better to hem than the one you are offering. Secondly why should we kill a confirmed antitown today when what we need is to take out a whole faction? And not merely scum. If we kill epi or LSU today, the only way that can be beneficial to town is if that players partner is revealed in the following nights investigation, an investigation that we have no control over and is unlikely to give us what we need.

I totally agree, if they kill 2 townies tonight and tomorrow, it's their win, and that deal is much better than Wing's plan... And imagine LSU accepts Wing's proposal and then investigate someone (me?) and lies about me being Epi's partner. Town lynch me (or any other town) and mafia wins 100% sure. Starting to think Wing/Streaker is LSU's partner and what I already said, mitch being Epi's partner.

[Ragian]

1) how can lsu lie about the investigation?
2) how is lynching someone who might be antitown better than lynching confirmed antitown?

[dakky21]

1) how can lsu lie about the investigation?
2) how is lynching someone who might be antitown better than lynching confirmed antitown?

1) lsu investigates town and gives results to his partner which then says he got a investigation results with <insert town here> being scum... that's a death sentence but lynching town D3 is a win win for them.

2) lynching confirmed antitown won't get us to the point where town is fighting only one mafia. We would have to "randomly" lynch antitown tomorrow rather than killing off the whole faction.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

How does mislynching town help us win. Its tantamount to giving up.

I've been reading the thread. Dakky has been spouting nonsense and you've all been buying it.

Mafia and werewolves CANNOT win together. There current pact is based on trust, which is dangerous when they both have the ability to stab the other in the back. This is why our offer is better.

If we lynch Epi today, and use LSU to find Epi's partner, then we can eliminate an entire faction. Shooting blind does not allow us to do it. If we pass up Epi and LSU then we have 2/8 chance of hitting non-town. 25% chance of moving forward, 75% chance of losing there and then.

So yes I have been reading, its utter nonsense. The two anti town factions WILL turn on each other at some point. They have to. Seeing as everything else is in the open, lets make LSU turn on Epi now and in the open.

Stop playing as if its 6 vs 4. Its not its 6 vs 2 vs 2.

[dakky21]

Wing your theory would go this way:
D2 lynch Epi
N2 two town kills
D3 LSU uncovers Epi's partner (and that is less than 25% he will hit exactly him)
D3 lynch Epi's partner
N3 one town kill
D4 ... 3 town vs 2 mafia, one of which known...
N4 one town kill
D5 2 town 1 mafia....

Not bad play for mafia, but everything depends IF LSU will hit Epi's partner. IF he FAILS, town will gain nothing. So the current situation is - either we as town try to communicate and try to find scum or we let that privilege to scum team to choose.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

[quote="dakky21"

Not bad play for mafia, but everything depends IF LSU will hit Epi's partner. IF he FAILS, town will gain nothing. So the current situation is - either we as town try to communicate and try to find scum or we let that privilege to scum team to choose.[/quote]

Not quite, if LSU doesnt kill or investigate his partner we get a more informed chance to lynch Epis partner.

Correction:

D4... 3 town vs 2 WEREWOLF, one of which known...

Its important to consider them as seperate entities.

[MrBellyBangBang]

1) how can lsu lie about the investigation?
2) how is lynching someone who might be antitown better than lynching confirmed antitown?

1: By sending the results to his teamate and then have his teammate lie about it, that would give his teammate away but not before screwing town over completely, I doubt that will happen as neither faction wants to lose.
2: Because if we do then we can easily elmininate a whole faction the next day and then all of a sudden it's our game to lose, we can't let them keep taking down two towns a day and the only way for us to stop that is make sure that one of the factions doesn't exist anymore, if we kill a confirmed scum tonight we've likely given over the initiative to the antitown factions and can only hope that at least one of them betray the other.
It is true that if we miss again we've really screwed up but there are no safe plays at this point, we've got to take a risk either way, if we kill a confirmed scum we risk getting chopped down two townies at a time, if we take a risk and lynch someone who's not a confirmed scum we risk lynching a townie, but if we don't we're in the driving seat of this thing. I strongly prefer the latter option.

[madmitch]

after rereading I have a question ,do the seer and oracle have to give the true results to the person they chose ? if not then we have a whole new ballgame, granted we still have a good chance of winning this if we don't get caught up in overthinking every thing , remember they have no ideal who there partner is and they are just as much in the dark as we are.

[Ragian]

@belly and dakky, we will tell him whom to hand the investigation result to. If he hasn't, he's dead. I'd like him to hand the result to Tim. Moreover, we still need to off either lsu or epi in order to kill off a whole faction. Why not today unless he plays ball? I don't think Wing's offer is bad.

[Epitaph1]

After careful consideration, I'm updating my list just a bit.

madmitch
dakky21
TimWoodbury
Streaker
HotShot53
mtamburini
MrBellyBangBang
LSU Tiger Josh
Ragian
WingCmdr Ginkapo

I'll lynch anyone on that list, in that order. I cannot wait until mtam comes in and realizes that we've blown his cover by putting him in the middle of both of our lists.

[HotShot53]

While I see what dakky and belly are proposing... you don't just lynch someone at random when there are two confirmed scum. As wing says, the scum have to turn on each other at some point. Even if it gets down to 2 town and 2 scum, they could shoot each other and town still wins. And with all the lists they are posting, you can't really believe anything they say.

I'd rather lynch the non-oracle first, to give one more result at night at least. We can't say who it goes to though, or the other side will just kill that person and the result would be lost.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Now I have your attention its time to make Epi and LSU beg for our mercy. I have suggested that we side with LSU because of previous comments he has made to bargain with us, but lets not forget our other option.

The ball is in our court, not theirs, time to play.

I find it odd that no one is discussing my choices. Madmitch and Dakky stand out to me. Do I take your silence to be agreement with these choices?

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

[TimWoodbury]

i must say before wing came in i didnt really think of it his way (i dont like number games as numbers is math and i hate math) i suppose that dakkys way now makes a lil less since especially since if we "randomly" lynch today its game over if we hit town however wings will allow us to keep going ONLY if whoever we "side" with dont screw us over right off

[HotShot53]

Now I have your attention its time to make Epi and LSU beg for our mercy. I have suggested that we side with LSU because of previous comments he has made to bargain with us, but lets not forget our other option.

The ball is in our court, not theirs, time to play.

I find it odd that no one is discussing my choices. Madmitch and Dakky stand out to me. Do I take your silence to be agreement with these choices?

I thought mitch was playing scummy yesterday, and hasn't done anything to change my mind there yet. So yeah, I'd put him at the top of my list. Dakky... you'd think that scum wouldn't argue so hard against lynching scum, because that seems scummy to most people... but maybe he is just trying to save his partner... I'd lean that he's more likely town than scum though.

Of course, the person you replaced (streaker) was one of my top three potential scum yesterday, so for all I know you are LSU's scummate and just want to make a deal with him so you can win as a team.

[madmitch]

I am not scum or werewolf, I am just town and I revote LSU. VOTE LSU

[dakky21]

Guys, don't let Wing change your mind. Yeah, he is a great player, so he can greatly change your view on the things...

Voting a confirmed scum today will lead to 2 town kills tonight... tomorrow another 2 town kills because scum will agree on who to kill even if it is two factions. They're happy with it and they like their 50% of winning in the endgame.

Mitch is Epi's sidekick... (wants to lynch LSU at all costs)
Wing is LSU's sidekick... (wants to side with LSU at all costs)

Just pick one of them, it's irrelevant, my vote is on, just pick it up and we're good to go.

Tomorrow we lynch the confirmed mafia and we will be in a good position.

Just remember this post when the game ends.

[madmitch]

@ Dakky how can you be so sure two townys will get killed at night ? neither the oracle or seer know who their partner are. They might think they know but who can really know. @ WCG you volunteer to get killed at night and leave me out of it ,they can investigate me if they want but I am not going down without a fight. @ Dakky out of the two mentioned who do you want to hang ( not me asshole) either Epic or LSU , if neither than we should look at you for being scum!! @ WCG who do you want Lsu or Epic ? come on guys quit stalling and pick ,lets see what happens, I have no problem changing my vote, so get the lead out. I have not posted much because I am reading the same old bullshit but when you guys are accusing me enough is enough so man up and put on your big girl panties and vote one of these scum out

[dakky21]

@ Dakky how can you be so sure two townys will get killed at night ? neither the oracle or seer know who their partner are.

Actually, Seer knows the Goon and Oracle knows the werewolf. You'd know that if you just read the OP.

They might think they know but who can really know.

Stop bullshit right there. They know and you know it because you're one of them.

@ Dakky out of the two mentioned who do you want to hang ( not me asshole) either Epic or LSU , if neither than we should look at you for being scum!!

Yes, go ahead with the OMGUS vote. I'm not voting any of the two mentioned. You can either trust me and lynch someone from the group (including you, yeah, thats funny) or not trust me and go for the secure scum kill. Either way we're most probably dead, but good luck anyway.

@ WCG who do you want Lsu or Epic ? come on guys quit stalling and pick ,lets see what happens, I have no problem changing my vote, so get the lead out. I have not posted much because I am reading the same old bullshit but when you guys are accusing me enough is enough so man up and put on your big girl panties and vote one of these scum out

Really, OMGUS now. You have no problem changing your vote but you're waiting for a wagon to happen so you can stick to it? As you would say, MAN UP and vote someone who is not on a wagon! No? OMGUS !

[Ragian]

Voting a confirmed scum today will lead to 2 town kills tonight... tomorrow another 2 town kills because scum will agree on who to kill even if it is two factions.

How is this not true if we don't lynch the confirmed scum? How will we somehow, magically, get both in one lynch? I understand that it would be preferable to eliminate one faction ASAP, but our chances don't increase by guessing today. they increase by having another set of investigations.

I like Wing's suggestion because a) it pits the two anti-town factions against each other and b) it puts town more in control. In fact, I think we should offer either epi or lsu the chance of two days of survival in exchange for a) investigation and b) killing of the other faction.

E.g. We pardon epi today and tomorrow.
- Today we lynch lsu
- Tonight, epi's investigate/kills off whoever we tell them to.
- Tomorrow, we're 7 left: 4 town, 2 epi-faction, and 1 lsu-faction. And we have an investigation to narrow down the choice of lynch.

If we get it right, we'll be 3-2 the next day and then we kill off epi to make it 2-1 for the last day. Another added value here is that the faction that don't play ball must kill off the other faction in order not to die.

Surely, these odds are better than what dakky and belly proposes.

@Wing, as you will have read from the beginning of the day, I found dakky scummy because of the way he came out guns blazing, contradicted himself, tried to discredit Tim, and flipflopped a few times. However, the way epi posted about dakky made me backtrack.

[madmitch]

@ Dakky you were right ,missed that part, but you are so full of shit most of the time that I did not listen !! anyway seems strange that you and Epic wants to lynch me , so I think you are partners, that makes since since you don't want to lynch him or LSU