Matrix mafia Day 3 - no-one died? [Abandoned]

[Haggis_McMutton]

Guess I've put off defending long enough(what can I say, i too have been a lazy bugger lately).

Ok, here goes nothing.

VOTE HAGGIS

My reasoning, primarily bandwagoning when it was particularly easy to do so without rousing suspicion and then trying to kill claimed town power roles.

1.It isn't really bandwagoning if i'm providing good reasons for my votes.
2. If the only reason to lynch Sax after his claim was to "try to kill town power roles", then you are admitting to doing that yourself, correct?

His reason for being on the Icon wagon was this;

Wait,wait,wait. There's something very odd going on here.

1.Sax makes that ridiculous post defending icon(seriously, not only did it make no sense at all, but has anyone ever seen Sax making a post that big?)
2. icon comes up with a obscure claim(I had to google "Sati matrix", she doesn't even have a wiki page)
3.Now comes the really weird bit:

I don't understand the bulletproof bit. The character is a bit obscure but not too so. It would make a good fake claim to be handed to the mafia. That being said the character could plausibly be in the game. I just don't like the bulletproof bit. Are there any conditions to it? It would make more sense if there was.

I imagine that if seraph was to die innocent child would die as well, as she came under the protection of the oracle.

I believe he is assuming that the town will win. That being said I will unvote. If you bulletproofness is linked to the Seraph your role becomes far more plausible. And no I am not the Seraph, but it just fits better then a bulletproof child.

Here's how i read this exchange:
edoc:"Ok, not a bad fakeclaim, but you need to add more flavour. Give us something about the bulletproofness"
sax:" Oh, I've got it, how about blablabla"
edoc:"good enough, ok guys let's move on, unvote"

This just doesn't smell good at all. Sorry, but the obscure role + this very weird exchange = vote icon

To me it seems like there isn't much in there, I was doing my usual rolefishing and he votes for Icon, the one totally not speaking in the quote, after Icons claim. Fishy, Sati was an important enough character to be included (especially if you consider the symbolism of her character) and the the role fit the character well. No reason to lynch here now.

Icon was on the chopping block, the weak roleclaim and the possible connection with you strengthened my conviction. By lynching him at that point I was hoping to shed more light on you as well.
Sati was an important character? Not only do I honestly have no recollection of her from the movies, but:

Sax i can disprove you very quickly, sorry.
I am Sati, Innocent Child. I cannot be night killed.
That's all. If you want to go ahead with the lynch because it provides good leads, then lynch me, I still win if I'm dead. But you've got to be certain! In I for one am certainly not certain of commander and sax.

I don't understand the bulletproof bit. The character is a bit obscure but not too so. It would make a good fake claim to be handed to the mafia. That being said the character could plausibly be in the game. I just don't like the bulletproof bit. Are there any conditions to it? It would make more sense if there was.

I'm not sure what to think about the claim...it's common enough that aage might have included it but obscure enough it could also easily be a fake claim. I think a conditional bp does fit the character and it is testable so for now unvote

Looks like some other people didn't find the character all that important.

Also, let's not forget:

O shit. I thought you said this Icon. It was more or less the whole reason I believed the claim. My 180 because of sax's words did indeed look scummy Fircoal. I was mistaken at the author.

Seeing as I don't by the randomly bulletproof child Vote Icon

So you basically admit that my case is valid(and claim it was a mistake on your part) and you even revote icon. Now my case is fishy again? Interesting how these things change to suit your current purposes.

Then once Sax claims with that stupid cookie thing Haggis says;

Hmm, not sure what to make of that claim.
Anyway, there's really no downside as far as I can see to testing it.

vote Sax

At this point we had no idea how insane Sax's role was, which was pretty much the whole reason the wagon continued so long after his full claim, and he tried to get the Oracle, a role guarantied to be in a Matrix mafia, killed. That no good. He later goes on to argue for his lynch (agreeing with me, an argument I was nearly killed for) after the claim, not necessarily in the towns interest.

So let me get this straight. you are directly saying that I'm scummy because I acted similarly to you? What exactly does that make you?

Anyway, regarding Sax. I voted for him because he was lying. That simple.
Why I didn't unvote when no one counterclaimed. I think you answered that as well:

Or perhaps the Oracle is being intelligent and trying to lynch him rather then exposing themselves to recruitment.

Considering how blatant Sax's lies were this didn't seem at all farfetched. No need to reveal yourself when the guy is already ties up in lies.

I knew there was no way in hell he was an unlynchable bulletproof cop/tracker. No fuckin' chance. Once he mended his claim and admitted to lying I had really hoped that the real oracle would now counterclaim, mostly cause I really REALLY would have liked to apply LaL in this case, but when it became apparent that wouldn't happen I gave in.

Then once flow asks for some help forcing me to claim says;

Got to admit I haven't been able to read the last few pages properly, just skimmed them(was away for the weekend).
But with the deadline and all I'll say that a lynch is almost always better than a no lynch.
vote edoc.

I'll try to read this more thoroughly by tomorrow.

Just following the lead of the crowd, not adding anything and keeping his head down to avoid attention. His posts count were a bit low early in the game, not so much later on.

Yeah, as you may have noticed, my activity really has been lacking. That vote is exactly what it says on the tin, better than a no lynch. Furthermore your whole case on me actually fits better on you. I bandwaggoned? Well you pushed for icon's lynch cause he edited a post, then backtracked, then pushed again, got him to claim, backtracked again(due to a mistaking Sax for icon supposedly) and then pushed again ...
Furthermore, as Sax himself pointed out you were even more aggressive than me in pursuing him. So if you think the case on me has any validity at all, then my vote on you had validity as well.

Basically I think he has been playing the ideal scum, staying active, not pissing anyone off, playing it safe.

I have taken a position on every major issue in this game and maintained those positions untill the facts changed. I was against bandwaggoning icon for an edit, I was for his lynch after that claim, and I correctly identified Sax's lies and pursued him to such an extent that he put me on his "OMGUS scummy list" right next to you. How exactly have I "played it safe"?

[edocsil]

Guess I've put off defending long enough(what can I say, i too have been a lazy bugger lately).

Ok, here goes nothing.

VOTE HAGGIS

My reasoning, primarily bandwagoning when it was particularly easy to do so without rousing suspicion and then trying to kill claimed town power roles.

1.It isn't really bandwagoning if i'm providing good reasons for my votes.
2. If the only reason to lynch Sax after his claim was to "try to kill town power roles", then you are admitting to doing that yourself, correct?

Most my issues are with the first few lines.

With the count of wagoning you did on my case, you admitted that yourself. On Icon's case you said

Here's how i read this exchange:
edoc:"Ok, not a bad fakeclaim, but you need to add more flavour. Give us something about the bulletproofness"
sax:" Oh, I've got it, how about blablabla"
edoc:"good enough, ok guys let's move on, unvote"

This just doesn't smell good at all. Sorry, but the obscure role + this very weird exchange = vote icon

The only way this makes sense is if me, Icon and Sax are all scum together, which even back then should have been obviously not the case.

And on Sax's case, I pushed before he claimed role and after he claimed insane abilities. you pushed right after he claimed role. He is a threat to you for one reason or another.

[Commander9]

Okay, the long awaited post is right here:

This person has posted quite a bit, but pretty much every post has lacked substance and wasn't helpful at all. Vio's first posts weren't nothing suspicious - just a couple of joke votes and that's it.

Okay, fine, lets just get this back on track. While I still won't agree, but I can see that this will go nowhere, so it's best to just move back where we finished. I'm still almost sure that he will turn out to be town, but we'll see.

Back on track? Where exactly were we before? I would like a better explanation of how you just know that 00icon is town. Usually people don't defend others quite like that.

Vote Commander9

Back on track to analysing the actual user posts as we go into a debate about mod's thoughts and I was the only one who had those thoughts. Skimming?

I don't know, but I'm fairly certain that he's town with the same reasons I've already went through a couple of times few pages ago.

Obviously those reasons weren't clear, or I wouldn't have asked again. So I will repeat myself. I would like a better explanation of how you just know that 00icon is town. Usually people don't defend others quite like that. Also, isn't "analyzing actual user posts" what you were doing when you gave unclear reasons for knowing 00icon is town?
I don't get "back on track" as we weren't going anywhere to begin with, and this 00icon thing is a new lead.

I post that we have a townie and make my reasoning, but she continues pushing it and pilling up on me. Up to this point she has still not contributed anything substantial to the game, but just attacked a few people. Then, instead of moving on, she continues to beat on the same dead duck:

First of all, we were actually analysing Edoc and not 00coin. Skimming again? Or just defending your scummie?

You specifically said that you think 00icon is town, and that is what i questioned you about. It had nothing to do with edoc; that was a completely different issue, that I wasn't even involved in. "You don't know," is not really an acceptable answer for me.

You raised my suspicion; that is why my vote is on you. Also the whole edoc/00icon edit thing was getting us nowhere, and I would like to seek a new lead.

After this, she just continues to turn around every post that I make by 180 degrees, but not actually contributing anything. Finally, she only comes out with her role saying not to trust me, thus probably making it up. After that, she basically comes out with the same song on Day 2:

I was beginning to totally lose interest here, but I'll stay around. I'll refrain from posting more until I've re-read the last couple of pages (or the whole thing, but then only @ weekend).

Something about this post sounds scummy.
FOS Commander

Good scene aage. GG squirrel.

Quick summary for those who don't want to read the whole thing:

1) Through out 47 pages has still not contributed anything of substance.
2) Has a clearly fixed radar.
3) Has a history of making no-substance posts and just being ignored when she's scum.
4) Made up a story with her PM saying she shouldn't trust me (or if she didn't, it could only be one character and that character is Agent Smith).

Vote Vioiet.

[VioIet]

Okay, the long awaited post is right here:

After this, she just continues to turn around every post that I make by 180 degrees, but not actually contributing anything. Finally, she only comes out with her role saying not to trust me, thus probably making it up. After that, she basically comes out with the same song on Day 2.
Quick summary for those who don't want to read the whole thing:

1) Through out 47 pages has still not contributed anything of substance.
2) Has a clearly fixed radar.
3) Has a history of making no-substance posts and just being ignored when she's scum.
4) Made up a story with her PM saying she shouldn't trust me (or if she didn't, it could only be one character and that character is Agent Smith).

Vote Vioiet.

This is actually a pretty decent case against me. So I should address a few things.

Read above when I respond to Fircoal's post. I was thoroughly confused Day 1, as I have no knowledge of the movie. A lot of the claims, scenarios, and discussions in this game are based upon knowledge of the movie.

I didn't want to scubarine all game- so I had to find something to say. And yes, I know I spelled it wrong. Don't feel like getting a dictionary right now. Actually had never heard of that word before i started playing mafia.

I will respond to the four points you summarized from your argument.

1). Nope, I haven't contributed much. This is a theme based game- and it hasn't felt much like a typical mafia game with Town vs Scum. I commented on the post that I understood- and basically what stood out to me. Also when this game started- i was working two jobs, and if you notice, my contribution in all games went down around that time. I could really only focus on the game i was modding, plus maybe one or two more games that I actually understood. The theme based games that I was lost in took a backseat. Look at Buffy Mafia for instance. Once I had more time on my hands- i became more active in my games- i think you can see the pattern. When I did come to post- like i said- i posted on the things that stood out to me- and i mostly noticed you being super aggressive, on every bandwagon, and I had to call you out for somethings. I think you have gotten some passes this game, and I might have been the first one bold enough to say something about it.
2). I suppose that is true. I clung to the only thing I could understand and post about. However, I don't really see how this is much different from how dead set and aggressive you were on Day 1 both gunning for edoc and defending 00icon.
3). Since when have you played a game with me, in which I was scum?
4). This part was not made up -perhaps embellished, but not made up. There were more; I just singled you out.

And you spelled my name wrong, you know its supposed to be an L

[VioIet]

Oops, i kinda sorta forgot to post this.

I quoted Fircoal's post in one tab, and commander's in another tab, and forgot to copy and paste one to the other- and assumed i already had as i wrote my post.
Anyways, this is what i was referring to.

I think a lot of the lack of commentings from some people really just has to do with the only thing we're talking about are names and not really the scumminess that defines mafia. I personally don't know anything about the matrix, and really this just seem like a useless headache. We already have at least 4 people claimed and some more under suspicion. If you wanna play the name game why not just order up a mass claim? I mean it's not like you can make the town any less screwed with so many outed roles. If you wanna play mafia then lets skip the names and play mafia.

QFT

My thoughts exactly- fircoal just managed to put to state it more eloquently.

I don't know the movie- so some things have really lost me.

[safariguy5]

It's true that this game has been pretty much spinning on the movie flavor so far, but I think it's been pretty good at giving the investigative roles some clues about investigation priorities. That said, I'm starting to think we should lynch the inactive because just about every case thus far has devolved into alignment and character discussions.

[edocsil]

It's true that this game has been pretty much spinning on the movie flavor so far, but I think it's been pretty good at giving the investigative roles some clues about investigation priorities. That said, I'm starting to think we should lynch the inactive because just about every case thus far has devolved into alignment and character discussions.

http://translate.google.com/#

I am worried that my scummate might be getting close to a lynch!

[Commander9]

http://translate.google.com/#

I am worried that my scummate might be getting close to a lynch!

What? The hell?! Is this post about Vio?

[safariguy5]

It's true that this game has been pretty much spinning on the movie flavor so far, but I think it's been pretty good at giving the investigative roles some clues about investigation priorities. That said, I'm starting to think we should lynch the inactive because just about every case thus far has devolved into alignment and character discussions.

http://translate.google.com/#

I am worried that my scummate might be getting close to a lynch!

Nope, not even close. Since claiming seems to be the popular thing to do this game and since I already said I was a JOAT, I might as well give the name too. I'm Captain Niobe.

[TheSaxlad]

It's true that this game has been pretty much spinning on the movie flavor so far, but I think it's been pretty good at giving the investigative roles some clues about investigation priorities. That said, I'm starting to think we should lynch the inactive because just about every case thus far has devolved into alignment and character discussions.

[url]http://translate.google.com/safariguy#[/url]

I am worried that my scummate might be getting close to a lynch!

Nope, not even close. Since claiming seems to be the popular thing to do this game and since I already said I was a JOAT, I might as well give the name too. I'm Captain Niobe.

Commander its about Safari and his want to lynch the inactives.

But that said Commander you and VioIet have been playing an interesting little game...
Lets Just Recap:
A. We now assume Commander is the Architect, yes? He hasn't claimed it and for a scum thats a nice little thing to go on with, of course the real architect won't claim, not yet.
B. VioIet has been trying to lynch Commander all game, however she also mentioned she "Embellished" her story on Commander and there were others she shouldn't trust. Names Please VioIet.
C. Then out of the Blue Commander produces a defense of himself and a Case attacking Vi, which she immediately answers, not usual I would say.

I know I'm throwing around completely unbacked up ideas here, but do the scum ever ploy against each other in the hope that the one that isnt taken out is assumed to be allied to the town?

Anyway, I want more names of people we shouldn't trust from Vi as a starter. We can go from there.

[TheSaxlad]

ebwop, not usual is the fact that vi responded immediately.

[strike wolf]

Well who are these other people vio? Rigght now I wouldn't be against both of you being lynched/killed.

[strike wolf]

Also commander I would like to know the specifics of your untraceability. What abilities does it apply to?

[Haggis_McMutton]

Guess I've put off defending long enough(what can I say, i too have been a lazy bugger lately).

Ok, here goes nothing.

VOTE HAGGIS

My reasoning, primarily bandwagoning when it was particularly easy to do so without rousing suspicion and then trying to kill claimed town power roles.

1.It isn't really bandwagoning if i'm providing good reasons for my votes.
2. If the only reason to lynch Sax after his claim was to "try to kill town power roles", then you are admitting to doing that yourself, correct?

Most my issues are with the first few lines.

With the count of wagoning you did on my case, you admitted that yourself. On Icon's case you said

Like I said about the vote on you.
1. Your case on me applies better on you. Therefore if it has any value, then my vote on you also had value.
2. It was definitely better than a no lynch.

Do you dispute any of these points?

Here's how i read this exchange:
edoc:"Ok, not a bad fakeclaim, but you need to add more flavour. Give us something about the bulletproofness"
sax:" Oh, I've got it, how about blablabla"
edoc:"good enough, ok guys let's move on, unvote"

This just doesn't smell good at all. Sorry, but the obscure role + this very weird exchange = vote icon

The only way this makes sense is if me, Icon and Sax are all scum together, which even back then should have been obviously not the case.

That's not how it's done. you can't state exact theories like that, they will very likely be wrong. What I saw in that exchange was both you and sax being linked with icon. Sax had some previous posts linking him with icon as well. Furthermore Icon had acted quite suspiciously. Are you telling me that the scummy guy who now has connections to two other people is not a good lynch candidate?

And on Sax's case, I pushed before he claimed role and after he claimed insane abilities. you pushed right after he claimed role. He is a threat to you for one reason or another.

He claimed insane abilities before he claimed the role. Pushing != voting. Here's my post before he claimed a role:

I'm not a mathematician but I'm pretty sure that unlynchable townie+unlynchable townie=unbalanced. two unlynchable townies that could subsequently be recruited by the cult and become two unlynchable cult members=even more unbalanced. Frankly I think you're lying and the fact that you've claimed unlynchable tells me that there's not really a downside to pushing for your lynch.

Strike I am unlynchable for a reason.
I am also bulletproof until someone dies.
and I am town.

I assume you're also a doctor, cop, vigilante and busdriver ...

At this point you've got to claim. You can't just say "oh btw I'm unlynchable and bulletproof. K, thnks" and expect to be left alone ...

Also, this is a comment in general. IF you are indeed a townie, for god's sake stop claiming out of the blue like this in every game. Claiming is a last resort ffs ...

And also:

Plus if we lynch him and he somehow turns out to actually be also unlynchable I'm guessing the mod will give us a few extra days(and piss himself laughing cause we tried to lynch 2 unlynchable characters on D1)

So, yeah. We want to hear you claim Sax, or we'll just test it.

If that's not pushing I don't know what is.

Once more you attempt to twist the facts, turning my not voting for him before he claims(aka being cautious) while stating that I'm clearly very suspicious of his supposed abilities into me voting him only because he claimed oracle...

I know you're supposed to be third party or something, but all these manipulation attempts don't seem very pro-town to me ...

[Commander9]

Also commander I would like to know the specifics of your untraceability. What abilities does it apply to?

I've already specified before - I can not be tracked and my role can not be found out. Also, I guess I might as well end the speculation - I am NOT the Architect. So many guesses, so little basis.

Also, what Haggis said - I am more sure than ever that he's actually a mafia GF. Wouldn't be surprised if Vio is in there as well.

[strike wolf]

Also commander I would like to know the specifics of your untraceability. What abilities does it apply to?

I've already specified before - I can not be tracked and my role can not be found out. Also, I guess I might as well end the speculation - I am NOT the Architect. So many guesses, so little basis.

Also, what Haggis said - I am more sure than ever that he's actually a mafia GF. Wouldn't be surprised if Vio is in there as well.

Here's my problem with your role...and untrackable/univestigatable role is of no use to a town player and the fact you are untrackable would imply that you have a night action.

As for edoc...I would agree that his actions are sketchy as hell. unvote haggis if I haven't already. I don't really trust either of them other than to say it's very unlikely that they are aligned but vio cxould be. With edoc, the merovingian to my memory did not get his own hands dirty so possibly a godmother type role which could explain why he's not afraid of being tracked.

[Commander9]

Here's my problem with your role...and untrackable/univestigatable role is of no use to a town player and the fact you are untrackable would imply that you have a night action.

As for edoc...I would agree that his actions are sketchy as hell. unvote haggis if I haven't already. I don't really trust either of them other than to say it's very unlikely that they are aligned but vio cxould be. With edoc, the merovingian to my memory did not get his own hands dirty so possibly a godmother type role which could explain why he's not afraid of being tracked.

Mod might have added it so I would turn out to be suspicious - wouldn't surprise me that much. I won't comment any more here.

No, he himself did not do anything, but he had his syndicate his deeds and as you can remember, Twins weren't exactly the good guys. He has already admitted he has a faction and you can think for yourselves how likely is a 3-4 survivor faction?

[edocsil]

Haggis, your right, many of those arguments apply to myself. And guess what? I was nearly lynched for it.

[edocsil]

Haggis, your right, many of those arguments apply to myself. And guess what? I was nearly lynched for it.

[Haggis_McMutton]

Haggis, your right, many of those arguments apply to myself. And guess what? I was nearly lynched for it.

Do you not see that trying to prove I'm scum, with arguments that apply better to you, means you are basically saying that, by your own reasoning, you are scum?

If I am pro-town, trying to spot scum by looking at people that acted somewhat like me doesn't make a whole lot of sense ...
On the other hand in Briasburg I did actively scumhunt by trying to spot people acting similarly to me(since I was GF and all).

So either you are scum and are trying to spot rival scum under the supposition that they act like you, or you don't really believe in your case and only keep pushing it because hey, as long as no one in your group dies it's all good ...

[TheSaxlad]

Here's my problem with your role...and untrackable/univestigatable role is of no use to a town player and the fact you are untrackable would imply that you have a night action.

As for edoc...I would agree that his actions are sketchy as hell. unvote haggis if I haven't already. I don't really trust either of them other than to say it's very unlikely that they are aligned but vio cxould be. With edoc, the merovingian to my memory did not get his own hands dirty so possibly a godmother type role which could explain why he's not afraid of being tracked.

Mod might have added it so I would turn out to be suspicious - wouldn't surprise me that much. I won't comment any more here.

No, he himself did not do anything, but he had his syndicate his deeds and as you can remember, Twins weren't exactly the good guys. He has already admitted he has a faction and you can think for yourselves how likely is a 3-4 survivor faction?

So you have avioded answering both mine and strike wolfs questions in the process of this page and leading us around in circles. Not exactly helpful town instincts really. I really think the scum are playing us here like an out of tune guitar. Easily.

I still think that VioIet and Commander are linked and I would like to know truthfully from Commander if he knows that is the case because to my mind the only thing that has come out of his mouth is bullshit so far. I also think Commander has some kind of investigative role or tracking role, would make sense about how he thought he knew who 00icon was as well as the fact that we can't track the tracker...

But Commander enough Bullshit, are you linked with vi, if so how and I think we need to pressure him for a claim.

[edocsil]

Haggis, your right, many of those arguments apply to myself. And guess what? I was nearly lynched for it.

Do you not see that trying to prove I'm scum, with arguments that apply better to you, means you are basically saying that, by your own reasoning, you are scum?

If I am pro-town, trying to spot scum by looking at people that acted somewhat like me doesn't make a whole lot of sense ...
On the other hand in Briasburg I did actively scumhunt by trying to spot people acting similarly to me(since I was GF and all).

So either you are scum and are trying to spot rival scum under the supposition that they act like you, or you don't really believe in your case and only keep pushing it because hey, as long as no one in your group dies it's all good ...

The bolded bit is true, I would like this game to end quickly as that is my best way to remain alive at the end of the game. I intentionally drew attention to myself D1 for 2 reasons. First off I am bulletproof, so I will happily soak up NKs. Second off I have a solid claim, the Merovingian has to be in this game the only question is alignment. I felt that I could successfully convince you all that I was innocent so I played boldly Forcing others to play their cards. I know most of the roles in the game, there are only 5 I do not know assuming everyone is telling the truth. I picked the scummiest of the ones I did not know and pushed for your lynch.

And BTW

Do you not see that trying to prove I'm scum, with arguments that apply better to you, means you are basically saying that, by your own reasoning, you are scum?

I am trying to prove that you are a good candidate to be force to claim and then if said claim fails to hold water, be lynched.

[Commander9]

So you have avioded answering both mine and strike wolfs questions in the process of this page and leading us around in circles. Not exactly helpful town instincts really. I really think the scum are playing us here like an out of tune guitar. Easily.

I still think that VioIet and Commander are linked and I would like to know truthfully from Commander if he knows that is the case because to my mind the only thing that has come out of his mouth is bullshit so far. I also think Commander has some kind of investigative role or tracking role, would make sense about how he thought he knew who 00icon was as well as the fact that we can't track the tracker...

But Commander enough Bullshit, are you linked with vi, if so how and I think we need to pressure him for a claim.

The thing is, if I'll reveal myself, something bad will happen and that's the reason I've been avoiding that. As far as being connected to Vio, if I am, I have no idea. I had some information before about some other people, but everything that I've said about vio was based on the actual game rather than the PM.

[strike wolf]

Ok what I'm thinking right now.

town

Icon-proven sati
Flow-seems to be protown my only question about him was the fact that he used what pretty much had to be omitted information to misinform while rebutting my argument against sax day 1. Possibly recruited?
Strike
/-looking back at day 1 he appeared highly protown
Sax-I'm forced to believe his oracle claim even though he's continually acted highly scummy. Possibly recruited.
Safari-had been for a short time my leading suspect for AGENT smith (the case I was working on that didn't pan out (admittedly missed where he claimed JOAT which seems to be a solid claim).

survivors

1. Edocsil-claimed frenchie possible godfather/mother
2. Fircoal-trainman known associate of edoc's
3. Vio-probable associate of edoc's (day 1 edoc seemed unnaturally confident that vio and fircoal would unvote him early on.)

anti-town

1. Commander-general mildly scummy behavior. Uninvestigatable+untrackable should not equal town.
2. Anyone listed under survivor
3. Xuereb-from what little I saw appeared to be a cocky scum.
4. Haggis-similar reasons as to why I think edoc could be scum but without association factors.

unsure (haggis could probably also fit into this category)
1. Tails

By role:

1. Sati-proven
2. Seraph
3. Oracle-claimed sax
4. Trinity
5. Neo-probably unrecruitable possibly bulletproof. Should not claim unless forced to.
6. Morpheus-possible recruiter. Should not claim.
7. Niobi

Third party/possible mafia:

1. Frenchie-claimed edoc. Possible survivor possible godfather/mother
2. Trainman
3. Twins (possibly two different people)

Probable Mafia
1. The source
2. The architect (I've been thinking about it and there's no way he could be town and I don't think he would be a survivor).
3. An agent (probably holds the kill)

Cult

1. Agent smith-possible uber role

Considering this there probably isn't room for an sk and the kill was probably the mafia. It would also suggest that edoc belongs to a 3 person group like he claims.

[strike wolf]

Ok what I'm thinking right now.

town

Icon-proven sati
Flow-seems to be protown my only question about him was the fact that he used what pretty much had to be omitted information to misinform while rebutting my argument against sax day 1. Possibly recruited?
Strike
/-looking back at day 1 he appeared highly protown
Sax-I'm forced to believe his oracle claim even though he's continually acted highly scummy. Possibly recruited.
Safari-had been for a short time my leading suspect for AGENT smith (the case I was working on that didn't pan out (admittedly missed where he claimed JOAT which seems to be a solid claim).

survivors

1. Edocsil-claimed frenchie possible godfather/mother
2. Fircoal-trainman known associate of edoc's
3. Vio-probable associate of edoc's (day 1 edoc seemed unnaturally confident that vio and fircoal would unvote him early on.)

anti-town

1. Commander-general mildly scummy behavior. Uninvestigatable+untrackable should not equal town.
2. Anyone listed under survivor
3. Xuereb-from what little I saw appeared to be a cocky scum.
4. Haggis-similar reasons as to why I think edoc could be scum but without association factors.

unsure (haggis could probably also fit into this category)
1. Tails

By role:

1. Sati-proven
2. Seraph
3. Oracle-claimed sax
4. Trinity
5. Neo-probably unrecruitable possibly bulletproof. Should not claim unless forced to.
6. Morpheus-possible recruiter. Should not claim.
7. Niobi-claimed by saf

Third party/possible mafia:

1. Frenchie-claimed edoc. Possible survivor possible godfather/mother
2. Trainman
3. Twins (possibly two different people)

Probable Mafia
1. The source
2. The architect (I've been thinking about it and there's no way he could be town and I don't think he would be a survivor).
3. An agent (probably holds the kill)

Cult

1. Agent smith-possible uber role

Considering this there probably isn't room for an sk and the kill was probably the mafia. It would also suggest that edoc belongs to a 3 person group like he claims.

Ebwop: mixed up that there were only 14 not 15 including mr. Squirrel so somewhere these numbers don't work...