[Official] Team CC Mafia [Finished]

[Hank44Soccer]

Sorry I was gone. WOW I missed alot.

Unvote Vote metsfanmax
To make Safari happy

SUBSTANCE: Why on earth would you vote for the mod! are you insane I don't care if it's a joke. As my buddy Antoin Dodson would say "Wow you are really dumb, fo real!" Kudos to anyone who gets the refrence and seriously man up and vote for someone who a vote towards them would actually matter Like Safariguy5 for instance Geez Louis you are insane

See Jonty I already voted

[Hank44Soccer]

hey watch it Im fluent in sarcasm

I'm so sure.

I like you're avitar

[jonty125]

Sorry didn't notice

[Victor Sullivan]

Lol, well, I'd like to reiterate the claim on safariguy. His first post jumps to the conclusion that there's a cult - right off the bat. Seriously, town would be a little more silly first

[Gilligan]

Well I guess a lot of stuff goes on in one day.

unvote vote hank44soccer for being a party pooper

G

[safariguy5]

Wait, what the heck is with the pressure on PCM, I'm pretty sure that was a joke vote on Victor. And seriously, you think I'm cult because I noticed something in the Day Scene? Did everyone else just skim the scene? I know I might put some hints in the day scene, certainly after a night. And looking at the number of players, 21 is definitely enough to support both a mafia and a cult if the mod wanted there to be one. Also, I can somewhat understand the flak on Metsfanmax, voting the mod when there is a deadline isn't productive for the town.

However, I'm going to stand by my original logic that we need active posters, and the most inactive one so far is firth. Seriously, looking at the day scene and game size balance wise, it would make sense for there to be a cult. But we cannot be sure about the existence of one until some sort of indication of recruitment in a night scene.

[jimfinn]

First off, sorry for not posting/voting yet - I thought the game would appear in the same thread as the confirms, and was waiting for it to start. Just found this thread today.

I like the wagon on Metsfanmax, not for the joke vote on the mod (which I see as null-tell antics that reveal more his RL personality than any in-game alignment), nor for his own wagonning, which is almost necessary to get anywhere in a D1 RVS type situation. Instead, I find this quote a bit suspicious.

Vote yoshi for something.

You should vote safariguy for something else.

This on the surface looks like another innocent jokester attitude snide remark, but he's pointing out a specific opponent to vote (who already has a wagon on him). I see this as a potential attempt to either derail another one of the ongoing wagons (protecting a scumbuddy, perhaps?) or to start a bit of suspicion on safariguy without anyone realizing where it came from.

It could also be a distancing attempt should safari ever flip scum.

Not the strongest evidence ever, but enough for a vote this early on.

VOTE:Metsfanmax

[Metsfanmax]

First off, sorry for not posting/voting yet - I thought the game would appear in the same thread as the confirms, and was waiting for it to start. Just found this thread today.

I like the wagon on Metsfanmax, not for the joke vote on the mod (which I see as null-tell antics that reveal more his RL personality than any in-game alignment), nor for his own wagonning, which is almost necessary to get anywhere in a D1 RVS type situation. Instead, I find this quote a bit suspicious.

Vote yoshi for something.

You should vote safariguy for something else.

This on the surface looks like another innocent jokester attitude snide remark, but he's pointing out a specific opponent to vote (who already has a wagon on him). I see this as a potential attempt to either derail another one of the ongoing wagons (protecting a scumbuddy, perhaps?) or to start a bit of suspicion on safariguy without anyone realizing where it came from.

It could also be a distancing attempt should safari ever flip scum.

Not the strongest evidence ever, but enough for a vote this early on.

VOTE:Metsfanmax

It was another innocent jokester remark, but I was already joined on the "bandwagon" against safari because of his remark on page one (not that I'm too seriously convinced by the "evidence" here). This is quite a stretch for a vote, and I wouldn't be surprised if you were, yourself, attempting to cast some misdirection. Unlike you, though, I won't accuse you of that, since I don't actually have any evidence.

[naxus]

Lol, well, I'd like to reiterate the claim on safariguy. His first post jumps to the conclusion that there's a cult - right off the bat. Seriously, town would be a little more silly first

Vic its flavor speculation on day one. Seems kinda harsh to jump him

Unvote vote vic

Also wheres know when you need her? She'd be all over this one

[DoomYoshi]

Naw, speculating about a third party is not saf's style, as far as I can tell. He was the one of the only people in Albarezzi who thought there was 2 factions, even when the hint for a third party was even more obvious than this. Granted, it is a pretty obvious hint, but it's mighty suspicious that he brought it to the attention of the town before anyone else did.

[safariguy5]

Naw, speculating about a third party is not saf's style, as far as I can tell. He was the one of the only people in Albarezzi who thought there was 2 factions, even when the hint for a third party was even more obvious than this. Granted, it is a pretty obvious hint, but it's mighty suspicious that he brought it to the attention of the town before anyone else did.

And what happened in Albarezzi? There were only 2 factions. I look at the number of players in the game first of all when I decide whether or not a third party is likely. Albarezzi had like what, 12 people? Any more than 1 mafia faction would have been really hard for the town to win. If you add an SKer, then there are potentially 2 night kills and it's LyLo much earlier in a small game.

With a game of this size, it's large enough to support third party and/or cult roles without endgaming too early. Add that to the hint dropped by the mod, and I concluded that it's likely there is a third party. It's one thing to not know about a third party because the mod didn't say anything about it, it's another to read the scene and ignore the clue given.

And if I may speak about your aversion to roleclaiming when pressured, that's really the whole point, especially day 1. While the chance that the cop or the doc is accidentally pressured into claiming, it's much more likely that the target isn't the cop or the doc. And if we by chance pressured the cop or the doc, what do you expect them to do? Say "I'm not mafia guys really! Please believe me!"

The main advantage of forcing of claim is that it puts mafia members on the spot. They most likely have to make up a claim, and this leads to two possibilities.

1. Someone has the same rolename or actual role, and counterclaims, leading to the lynch of the mafia member.

2. People buy the claim for the day, then the lie unravels as the mafia member has to make up night actions that may eventually lead to a logical fallacy, leading to the lynch of the mafia member.

Roleclaiming and voting patterns are the main way for us to gain information, it doesn't make sense to throw away half of it just because there's a small possibility of exposing the doc or the cop. There's also a small possibility that we uncover mafia as well.

[Dukasaur]

Why not just start a game with everyone role claiming then? Why bother voting at all?

[DoomYoshi]

Sorry that was me lol, I am filling in for Dukasaur and forgot which account I was in.

[safariguy5]

Sorry that was me lol, I am filling in for Dukasaur and forgot which account I was in.

My point isn't that every game should end in a mass claim, my point is that once put at L-2, L-1, it's generally accepted and expected that you claim. Depending on the claim, people may decide to spare you or lynch you. A lot of this goes into what role you are. If you're VT or some less important role (doublevoter, vote stealer, even bus driver), you getting lynched is a better result than lynching a power role. If you don't claim, nobody has any idea who you are, and mislynching a cop or a doc is far more helpful to mafia than it is to town.

[DoomYoshi]

Ok, so at least one roleclaim per day is helpful to the town if I am reading this right. Why wouldn't one person just take it upon themselves to roleclaim then?
My problem with a roleclaim based on a claim which is basically made up is that the person is most likely town. Catching mafia in a lie would be great. But when you can safely assume that a character is town based on actions they have taken beforehand, a roleclaim is more likely to be detrimental.

And I realize that claiming is a way out of being lynched, but claiming shouldn't be the goal of a vote persay. A vote should represent the fact that you think a person is likely to be scum, or that you think the person is obviously town and the BW pattern will reveal information about who jumps on.

Sorry to all the other players, this conversation isn't about this game; just mafia strategy in general. Onto the more specific task at hand, I will take saf's suggestion and keep the pressure on, in the interest of forcing a roleclaim

[naxus]

Sorry that was me lol, I am filling in for Dukasaur and forgot which account I was in.

My point isn't that every game should end in a mass claim, my point is that once put at L-2, L-1, it's generally accepted and expected that you claim. Depending on the claim, people may decide to spare you or lynch you. A lot of this goes into what role you are. If you're VT or some less important role (doublevoter, vote stealer, even bus driver), you getting lynched is a better result than lynching a power role. If you don't claim, nobody has any idea who you are, and mislynching a cop or a doc is far more helpful to mafia than it is to town.

Some people though have a bad tendency to panic when they get voted to L-1 or L-2 and don't claim or become fixed in their "Don't lynch me, Im a super townie" defense.

[pancakemix]

Don't lynch me. I'm a super townie.

[safariguy5]

Ok, so at least one roleclaim per day is helpful to the town if I am reading this right. Why wouldn't one person just take it upon themselves to roleclaim then?
My problem with a roleclaim based on a claim which is basically made up is that the person is most likely town. Catching mafia in a lie would be great. But when you can safely assume that a character is town based on actions they have taken beforehand, a roleclaim is more likely to be detrimental.

And I realize that claiming is a way out of being lynched, but claiming shouldn't be the goal of a vote persay. A vote should represent the fact that you think a person is likely to be scum, or that you think the person is obviously town and the BW pattern will reveal information about who jumps on.

Sorry to all the other players, this conversation isn't about this game; just mafia strategy in general. Onto the more specific task at hand, I will take saf's suggestion and keep the pressure on, in the interest of forcing a roleclaim

Ah, that's a bit of WIFOM thinking right there. I've seen mafia players act as the most townish looking players on day 1 (Rolegift mafia, Mr. Squirrel) and then people think they're not mafia because of the townishness of their behavior. Conversely, the submariners may not be mafia just because they act that way. And going by bandwagon information alone is not particularly useful early on as it's a small sample size. If we only have 2 bandwagons to go on, it's quite possible several people are on the same bandwagon. And scum may try to split the vote by voting someone secondary to the bandwagon, stalling the wagon until deadline. Therefore, a good case will probably incorporate posts, voting information, and possibly results of night actions to be convincing. Forcing a claim is just a means to an end sometimes.

[Army of GOD]

Don't lynch me bro!!!!


Also, Unvote. I guess it was more of a n00b move by jeraado (or however his name is spelled. I can't be arsed to go back a few pages).

Interesting thing we have going on right now but I don't feel convinced either way about who I think is scum.

[Streaker]

Unvote, vote jonty for blatant wagoning and skimming...

[jonty125]

So people get voted 4 for not providing a reason and then I provide a reason, however corny it may be and get voted for. If we get rid of someone there is a small chance they are the mafia, and if they're not; then the chance of the mafia been lynched increases. And there isn't exactly clear as day mafia about at the minute is there.

[jonty125]

unvote Vote: safariguy5, seems to be trying to make us believe what he wants us to.

[DoomYoshi]

Ooh jonty. I so want to vote you right now. Since it's your first mafiaday (I think) I will let it slide. As soon as other people notice that post though, prepare to be skewered.

[safariguy5]

unvote Vote: safariguy5, seems to be trying to make us believe what he wants us to.

What? How am I trying to influence anything? I'm just debating with Yoshi whether or not roleclaiming under pressure is a good idea or not. We haven't had a VC in a while so I'm not sure what position vote yours is, but I'm pretty sure it's the 5th one, which would be some pretty blatant bandwagonning with a reason that I don't think has any evidence or relevance.

[firth4eva]

OK, I'm here but I hadn't realsied we'd started yet. vote victor for trying to make safari out to be mafia because he read the scene. fos anyone voting safari.

Sorry for the delay as well