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Re: ObamaCare, MotherF*&%er!!!!

Postby PLAYER57832 on Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:54 am

AAFitz wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
Forty-one percent of the businesses surveyed have frozen hiring because of the health-care law known as Obamacare. And almost one-fifth—19 percent— answered "yes" when asked if they had "reduced the number of employees you have in your business as a specific result of the Affordable Care Act."

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100825782


Well, first Ill point out that 80% did not reduce the number of employees they have because of ACA, and 60% presumably have not frozen hiring.

I think what strikes me though, is how honest a company might be when answering such a survey, because answering, our business isnt doing as well, doesnt exactly promote company confidence or raise the stock price typically. However, blaming it all on one factor that possibly contributed, is in many ways their best interest, which means its safe to say that survey should be viewed in that context. Given the numbers and the fact that its almost guaranteed to be inaccurate, Id say its important to consider, and perhaps study, but would be silly in any real context of making decisions based on the numbers.

Or more succinctly....So?

No, Nightstrike only analysis things he disagrees with in that way. When he finds something he agrees with, he just posts it... as if it were a self-standing fact.
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Re: ObamaCare - Delayed Until After Elections

Postby Night Strike on Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:01 am

If Obamacare is so great, why does Obama keep breaking the law to keep it from being implemented?
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Re: ObamaCare - Delayed Until After Elections

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:05 am

Night Strike wrote:If Obamacare is so great, why does Obama keep breaking the law to keep it from being implemented?

Because he's a dic(tator).


--Andy
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Re: ObamaCare - Delayed Until After Elections

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:06 pm

Night Strike wrote:If Obamacare is so great, why does Obama keep breaking the law to keep it from being implemented?

LOL.... Why is it more important to you to criticize this law and Obama than to speak honestly and objectively?
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Re: ObamaCare - Delayed Until After Elections

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:10 pm

More unions mobilizing to crush Obamacare. Teamsters Union declares Obamacare "will shatter not only our hard-earned health benefits, but destroy the foundation of the 40 hour work week that is the backbone of the American middle class." Hoffa says they were duped by Obama into supporting it and now realize, like Saxi said, it is a corporate giveaway to Obama's campaign donors designed to murder the poor.

http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-intellig ... f-workers/

Will Obama order the Teamsters leadership to be jailed or sent to work camps like he did with Manning? Will they have to flee to Venezuela to escape being executed for criticizing Obama, like Snowden?

Obama - stop your war on unions!
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Last edited by saxitoxin on Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: ObamaCare - Delayed Until After Elections

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:25 pm

Obamacare's compliance processor company - the mega multinational corporation SERCO Global Inc. - now under investigation for contract fraud by British authorities...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/ ... 8J20130716

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Re: ObamaCare - Delayed Until After Elections

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:44 pm

They'll pull on their political clout to get the exemption. They're doing it right now, so we'll see. If I had to guess, they'll get what they want.
(RE: http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-intelligence/2013/07/12/union-letter-obamacare-will-destroy-the-very-health-and-wellbeing-of-workers/).


When you and the President sought our support for the Affordable Care Act (ACA), you pledged that if we liked the health plans we have now, we could keep them. Sadly, that promise is under threat. Right now, unless you and the Obama Administration enact an equitable fix, the ACA will shatter [our profits].


i.e. "exemption"

Like millions of other Americans, our members are front-line workers in the American economy. We have been strong supporters of the notion that all Americans should have access to quality, affordable health care. We have also been strong supporters of you. In campaign after campaign we have put boots on the ground, gone door-to-door to get out the vote, run phone banks and raised money to secure this vision.


What's their threat? Loss of future votes and campaign contributions and resources (e.g. volunteer labor) for the favored politicians. Basically, "if you threaten our profits, we'll threaten yours."


Since the ACA was enacted, we have been bringing our deep concerns to the Administration, seeking reasonable regulatory interpretations to the statute that would help prevent the destruction of non-profit health plans. As you both know first-hand, our persuasive arguments have been disregarded and met with a stone wall by the White House and the pertinent agencies.


If this is true, then it's obvious that Obama should be weighing the benefits and costs of dropping this voter market while possibly annoying his previous corporate backers. In other words, is the political profit from unions > or < the profit of the corporate donors?--caveat: this is put very simply since there's other groups involved).

First, the law creates an incentive for employers to keep employees’ work hours below 30 hours a week. Numerous employers have begun to cut workers’ hours to avoid this obligation, and many of them are doing so openly. The impact is two-fold: fewer hours means less pay while also losing our current health benefits.


Can't have pesky workers willing to work for <30 hours per week. That competition will diminish the benefits accrued to union laborers. If this factor is not significant, then still fixing this 'problem' would increase the price of unskilled laborers relative to skilled laborers (enough of which are in unions) or capital (which benefits unions if x-amount of capital is produced by them). If the 'perverse' incentive is 'corrected', then it's win-win for the unions.

Second, millions of Americans are covered by non-profit health insurance plans like the ones in which most of our members participate. These non-profit plans are governed jointly by unions and companies under the Taft-Hartley Act. Our health plans have been built over decades by working men and women. Under the ACA as interpreted by the Administration, our employees will treated differently and not be eligible for subsidies afforded other citizens.


In other words, "we want MORE!!!!" Our insurance + government subsidies = WIN.

(I thought the ACA was for helping the uninsured, right? Aren't the union laborers insured through their own non-profit businesses? If so, then what explains their 'beggar thy neighbor' policy?

In my opinion, the price of rent-seeking through the political process is low enough to justify the expected profits--since others will be paying for the sudden slack of a tax on union non-profits. Dispersed costs, concentrated benefits is a huge problem with the political process).

And finally, even though non-profit plans like ours won’t receive the same subsidies as for-profit plans, they’ll be taxed to pay for those subsidies. Taken together, these restrictions will make non-profit plans like ours unsustainable, and will undermine the health-care market of viable alternatives to the big health insurance companies.


That's a good concern--assuming the exemption would apply to all non-profit insurance companies (but that may hinder the imagined effectiveness of ACA)--it depends on how the rules of the ACA affect their pricing strategies. Of course, if the union-owned/-controlled non-profits get the exemption from this tax, then that additional money for the ACA still needs to come from somewhere. It's another example of "dispersed costs, concentrated benefits," which public choice is fond of mentioning.

On behalf of the millions of working men and women we represent and the families they support voters + funding, we can no longer stand silent in the face of elements of the Affordable Care Act that will destroy the very health and wellbeing of our members along with millions of other hardworking Americans the alternative, profitable arrangement for our members--as mentioned in this heart-wrenching letter.


fixed

We believe that there are common-sense corrections that can be made within the existing statute that will allow our members to continue to keep their current health plans and benefits just as you and the President pledged. Unless changes are made, however, that promise is hollow.

We continue to stand behind real health care reform, but the law as it stands will hurt millions of Americans including the members of our respective unions.


In conclusion, threat of political losses + moral rhetoric.
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Re: ObamaCare - Delayed Until After Elections

Postby Night Strike on Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:04 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Night Strike wrote:If Obamacare is so great, why does Obama keep breaking the law to keep it from being implemented?

LOL.... Why is it more important to you to criticize this law and Obama than to speak honestly and objectively?


Obama himself criticized the law when he illegally delayed its implementation. Or are you denying that it was delayed (aka, denying facts)?

And how are criticisms suddenly dishonest and non-objective? Or is the only objectivity that which the government states is the truth, since you believe giant government is the best thing since sliced bread?
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Re: ObamaCare

Postby PLAYER57832 on Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:15 am

saxitoxin wrote:
jj3044 wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:LOL

The Obama team said it was delaying the provision because reporting requirements were too burdensome. Officials said they needed more time to fix them. Yet they didn’t delay the tax consumers face for not carrying coverage.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottgottli ... are-delay/


More corporate welfare from Obama for his big business cronies.

Hardly. Most likely they are agreeing with the criticism that the rules and regulations came much too late to be effectively implemented in a couple months...


too late to be implemented on the gigantic, multinational corporate mega-donors who bankrolled Obama's campaign ... not too late to be implemented on a working mother with three children whose legs just fell off ...

"Here's your fine for being poor and not being able to afford health insurance, lady. No, AT&T won't be fined today. I waived all the rules for them." - Obama

Nice try, that was never going to happen, even if it had been implemented. Poor people were always going to get subsidies. Many might even get refunds.

Now, this requirement is being pushed back for everyone.

That said, giving the corporations exemptions does stink... though I would just as soon employers were utterly removed from healthcare.
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Re: ObamaCare - Delayed Until After Elections

Postby Nobunaga on Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:15 pm

72% hike in insurance premiums! Woohoo! =D>

http://www.indystar.com/article/2013071 ... ck_check=1
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Re: ObamaCare

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:56 am

jj3044 wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:LOL

The Obama team said it was delaying the provision because reporting requirements were too burdensome. Officials said they needed more time to fix them. Yet they didn’t delay the tax consumers face for not carrying coverage.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottgottli ... are-delay/


More corporate welfare from Obama for his big business cronies.

Hardly. Most likely they are agreeing with the criticism that the rules and regulations came much too late to be effectively implemented in a couple months...


but....I thought it had to be passed so fast because so many millions of people were suffering and dying in the streets and having their feet chopped off? Obamacare was passed like 4 years ago, emergency fashion. "

That should be an indicator that it's BS, and Democrats just manipulated people's fears and desires to grow government power and trillion dollar programs with 16,000 new IRS agents.

"These sick people cannot wait another day for the health care they deserve".....yet here we are, 4 years later. BS!
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Re: ObamaCare - Delayed Until After Elections

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:58 am

Nobunaga wrote:72% hike in insurance premiums! Woohoo! =D>

http://www.indystar.com/article/2013071 ... ck_check=1


But if we didn't spend trillions, premiums would be up even more than that!!!

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Re: ObamaCare - Delayed Until After Elections

Postby jj3044 on Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:29 am

It's not all bad news, people...
http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2013pres/07/20130718a.html

New report finds competition lowers premiums by nearly 20 percent in the Health Insurance Marketplace

Affordable Care Act gives consumers access to better coverage at a greater value in 2014

HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius today released a new report that finds premiums in the Health Insurance Marketplace will be nearly 20 percent lower in 2014 than previously expected.

The Affordable Care Act requires health insurers in every state to publicly justify any premium rate increases of 10 percent or more. Health insurance companies now generally have to spend at least 80 cents of every premium dollar on health care or improvements to care, or provide a rebate to their policy holders. In addition, when the Health Insurance Marketplace opens for enrollment on October 1, 2013 consumers will be able to make apples to apples comparisons of quality health insurance plans.

ā€œToday’s report shows that the Affordable Care Act is working to increase transparency and competition among health insurance plans and drive premiums down,ā€ said Secretary Sebelius. ā€œThe reforms in the health care law ensure consumers will have access to better coverage at a lower cost in 2014.ā€

Specifically the report finds that:

In the 11 states (including the District of Columbia) that have made information available for the individual market, proposed premiums for 2014 are on average 18 percent lower than HHS’ estimate of 2014 individual market premiums derived from CBO publications.

In the six states that have made information available in the small group market, proposed premiums are estimated to be on average 18 percent lower than the premium a small employer would pay for similar coverage without the Affordable Care Act.

Both estimates are based on premium proposals for the lowest cost silver plan in the individual and small group markets. Actual premiums in 2014 may be even lower when health plans are offered in the Marketplace this fall. Already, in a number of states (DC, OR, RI, VT), the rate review process and competition are resulting in final rates that are significantly below what was proposed earlier this spring.

Preliminary premiums appear to be affordable even for young men. For example, in Los Angeles - the county with the largest number of uninsured Americans in the nation - the lowest cost silver plan in 2014 for a 25-year-old individual costs $174 per month without a tax credit, $34 per month for an individual whose income is $17,235, and a catastrophic plan can be purchased for $117 per month for an individual.

Further, data from the Medical Expenditure Panel Survey Insurance Component shows that the average premiums for employer sponsored insurance increased by only 3 percent from 2011 to 2012, the lowest rate of increase observed since the data series started in 1996.

Already the 80/20 rule, or medical loss ratio, has saved 77.8 million consumers $3.4 billion up front on their premiums as insurance companies operated more efficiently and spent more on health care than administrative expenses, and 8.5 million consumers can expect an average rebate of approximately $100 per family. Since the health law’s rate review provisions were implemented, the number of requests for insurance premium increases of 10 percent or more has dropped dramatically, from 75 percent to 14 percent. To date, the rate review program has helped save Americans an estimated $1 billion.

The report is available at: http://aspe.hhs.gov/health/reports/2013 ... emiums.pdf

Visit HealthCare.gov to learn more about the Health Insurance Marketplace. Open enrollment begins on October 1, 2013 for coverage starting as early as January 2014.
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Re: ObamaCare - Delayed Until After Elections

Postby jj3044 on Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:35 am

Phatscotty wrote:
Nobunaga wrote:72% hike in insurance premiums! Woohoo! =D>

http://www.indystar.com/article/2013071 ... ck_check=1


But if we didn't spend trillions, premiums would be up even more than that!!!

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I didn't feel like registering on another site that will spam my e-mail box... what state is claiming a 72% increase? And who is claiming it?

Thanks.
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Re: ObamaCare - Delayed Until After Elections

Postby saxitoxin on Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:10 pm

Washington state - which has had a fully socialized, Canadian-style, single-payer health care system for delivery of mental health services for 2 decades - just got a notice from Obama that he's ordering it broken up and turned over to private corporations.

Within 90 days.

A surprise notice from the federal government could put Washington’s mental-health system in the hands of private insurers, reversing 20 years of history.

ā€œTo put it bluntly, this is not something we were anticipating,ā€ said Nathan Johnson, policy director at the Washington Health Care Authority. ā€œIt came out of the blue.ā€

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/ ... thxml.html


"And the punchline is ... your supporters will find a way to support this as long as we put an Obama sticker on it!"
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Re: ObamaCare - Delayed Until After Elections

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:12 am

Something tells me that the attack on socialism was Republican led.. not that Obama put up much of a protest, but the ORIGINAL proposals that included anything like socialism were eliminated very, very early.

Actually, strike that "republican led".. it was led by folks in both parties who cater to big business, aka basically everyone except the general public.
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Re: ObamaCare - Delayed Until After Elections

Postby john9blue on Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:50 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:Actually, strike that "republican led".. it was led by folks in both parties who cater to big business, aka basically everyone except the general public.


=D> there's still hope for you, player...
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Re: ObamaCare - Delayed Until After Elections

Postby Woodruff on Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:22 pm

john9blue wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:Actually, strike that "republican led".. it was led by folks in both parties who cater to big business, aka basically everyone except the general public.


=D> there's still hope for you, player...


The one thing that can shake her from her anti-Republican outlook is her anti-business outlook. <smile>
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Re: ObamaCare - Delayed Until After Elections

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:38 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:Something tells me that the attack on socialism was Republican led.. not that Obama put up much of a protest, but the ORIGINAL proposals that included anything like socialism were eliminated very, very early.

Actually, strike that "republican led".. it was led by folks in both parties who cater to big business, aka basically everyone except the general public.


Which Republicans voted for Obamacare? I understand your premise and do not disagree about both parties catering to big business. Just looking for a few names is all.

Also, why do you think Obama did not put up a protest to Socialism?
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Re: ObamaCare - Delayed Until After Elections

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:44 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:Something tells me that the attack on socialism was Republican led.. not that Obama put up much of a protest, but the ORIGINAL proposals that included anything like socialism were eliminated very, very early.

Actually, strike that "republican led".. it was led by folks in both parties who cater to big business, aka basically everyone except the general public.


Which Republicans voted for Obamacare? I understand your premise and do not disagree about both parties catering to big business. Just looking for a few names is all.
No, you are just pretending to voice an argument.

All of that happened well before any vote.

Phatscotty wrote:Also, why do you think Obama did not put up a protest to Socialism?
If I wanted to be charitable, and a bit naive, I could say because he knew it would never pass congress. Very true, but not the whole story. It was not really seriously put on the table because Obama is in the pockets of big business like most politicians today.

Ralph Nader is the only one who has spoken honestly about this subject..and most of what he said was said several years ago.
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Re: ObamaCare - Delayed Until After Elections

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:19 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:Something tells me that the attack on socialism was Republican led.. not that Obama put up much of a protest, but the ORIGINAL proposals that included anything like socialism were eliminated very, very early.

Actually, strike that "republican led".. it was led by folks in both parties who cater to big business, aka basically everyone except the general public.


Which Republicans voted for Obamacare? I understand your premise and do not disagree about both parties catering to big business. Just looking for a few names is all.
No, you are just pretending to voice an argument.

All of that happened well before any vote.

Phatscotty wrote:Also, why do you think Obama did not put up a protest to Socialism?
If I wanted to be charitable, and a bit naive, I could say because he knew it would never pass congress. Very true, but not the whole story. It was not really seriously put on the table because Obama is in the pockets of big business like most politicians today.

Ralph Nader is the only one who has spoken honestly about this subject..and most of what he said was said several years ago.
.


Agreed.

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Re: ObamaCare - Delayed Until After Elections

Postby Nobunaga on Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:18 pm

jj3044 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Nobunaga wrote:72% hike in insurance premiums! Woohoo! =D>

http://www.indystar.com/article/2013071 ... ck_check=1


But if we didn't spend trillions, premiums would be up even more than that!!!

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I didn't feel like registering on another site that will spam my e-mail box... what state is claiming a 72% increase? And who is claiming it?

Thanks.


Indiana. Claim is made by the Indiana State Insurance Department... whatever that is.
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Re: ObamaCare - Delayed Until After Elections

Postby PLAYER57832 on Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:43 pm

Woodruff wrote:
john9blue wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:Actually, strike that "republican led".. it was led by folks in both parties who cater to big business, aka basically everyone except the general public.


=D> there's still hope for you, player...


The one thing that can shake her from her anti-Republican outlook is her anti-business outlook. <smile>


Puns aside, I am only anti-business if you consider requiring businesses to be responsible to be "anti" business. I do not think someone finding a way to make money supersedes the rights of others today... or in the future.
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Re: ObamaCare - Delayed Until After Elections

Postby Woodruff on Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:47 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
john9blue wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:Actually, strike that "republican led".. it was led by folks in both parties who cater to big business, aka basically everyone except the general public.


=D> there's still hope for you, player...


The one thing that can shake her from her anti-Republican outlook is her anti-business outlook. <smile>


Puns aside, I am only anti-business if you consider requiring businesses to be responsible to be "anti" business.


Well...considering that I tend to fall healthily on the "businesses need regulation" side of things and I think you're incredibly anti-business, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.
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Re: ObamaCare - Delayed Until After Elections

Postby john9blue on Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:31 pm

i think player just thinks that businesses should have more responsibilities than they currently do, and she's willing to use governmental force to make them carry out those responsibilities.
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