BigBallinStalin wrote:PLAYER57832 wrote:BigBallinStalin wrote:notyou2 wrote:Christianity is about charity, or have you forgotten that basic tenet?
1) Is it charity when I hand a homeless person $5 and say, "Get loaded."
2) Is it charity when I sit down the same man and chat about whatever for an hour or two?
Just handing out money is not what Christ or the Bible dictates, but when that excuse is used to claim that my husband (who works over 40 hours a week at his paid job, PLUS being a volunteer fire fighter of over 20 years) has no right to health care that would allow him to take our son to the hospital without putting us in serious debt -- debt that, if I were not such a tightwad as to do without any new clothes for 7 years, buy all my son's clothes at yard sales, grow my own food, can etc....
would have meant we would lose our house.
THAT is what this is about!
Right, but you're just one particular case. Not everyone's situation is like yours. In your case, seeing that he's helped the city with being a firefighter, he should receive benefits, but many people don't have that claim to justify their receiving socialized healthcare.
Perhaps, there should be limits on who gets the healthcare and who doesn't, but how would that be enforced? No idea. Maybe providing proof that one is busting their ass yet still not doing so well, but there's complications with that.
I'd say, given your circumstances, you're entitled to it. However, a lot of people simply aren't, which is why many people perceive socialized healthcare to be unfair--a mandatory handout which is provided by their own money.
Why should others be forced to pay for another person's healthcare? (Charitable, religious beliefs aside.)
First, we are not talking about free, unpaid healthcare here. At the time I spoke of, we paid over $300 a month for insurance. I don't know what they company portion was, but likely it was at least that much. (COBRA policies usually start at around $700 a month for a family of 4).
ALL insurance spreads out costs. If you get insurance, you are already "paying for others". You are, effectively gambling that you will get sick. Or, to put it another way -- you pay, if you get sick, you are covered and "win". If you don't get sick, you lost money, but -- hey, are healthy.
The two main differences between socialism and our current system are that all but the truly indigent have to pay something (through taxes) and that the insurance is run by the government. This can be in many forms. Canada's is only one type. There is also France, Germany, even Japan. All have different ways of paying and managing.
A lot of the folks who argue here that they "will have to pay for others" OR that "they will have to buy insurance [that they don't need] or [that is just too expensive for them]" are fooling themselves. They are really gambling. They are gambling that they won't get sick or injured. If they do, then guess what, it is mostly we taxpayer who will wind up carrying them. Except, here is the deal. Just like other kinds of insurance, you don't figure the "benefit" by whether you actually wind up using insurance or not. A lot of the benefit is just plain in the security. Do I complain because my house does not burn down? NO! I am happy. And I still carry insurance because I just never know...
AS for the government "running"... start with that is not what any plan put foward in Congress (at least any that will pass, I believe there are a few "out there" "dead on arrival" plans put forward just so folks could "make statements" and such). So, we are NOT talking about anything planned for the US.
However, here is the deal. Insurance is a "for profit" enterprise. People pay for insurance and insurance companies make sure that they don't pay out in benefits as much as they take in from people's policies. They do this lots of ways. They definitely limit care.. they limit care to most people FAR more than even the most horrific stories pur forward against socialized medicine. They deny coverage for all sorts of things and flat out refuse to carry people who are truly sick. They do this so they can make far more money than any other insurance agency in the world.. and gain more profits than most industries.
What happens to those rejected by the insurance companies? Some get sick and die. No denying that. Others go onto Medicaid or other similar government programs.
SO, the reality is that we, right now, are paying for all those people. THAT is a big reason why health care in the US is, right now, far more expensive than any other system in the world. And, to make things worse, we do get worse care, on average. Sure, those headline-making surgeons can take a few people from overseas to do miracles. However, the truth is that the average person living here in the US often has no access or less access to those doctors than people in other countries.
Except, a few people do luck out. A few people do get wonderful insurance (nowhere near as many as think they have it -- you usually don't find out the truth about your insurance until a family member gets really, really sick), a few people just plain are lucky and live near great facilities and manage to get sick/injured at a time when they can be fit in, etc. But, once you get beyond the most basic stuff, its about likje a lottery. And, even getting the basics is a mish-mash that might as well be a lottery system.
The truth is that many, many low wage people are paying thousands a year for insurance they cannot afford to use, because it would cost them thousands more to use it.
). but converting to a single payor /communist / eurofag bullshit jackoff fest is only gonna clusterfuck everything. 
