Psychology Mafia ~ Game Over, Mafia Victory

[jak111]

So let me get this straight. zimmah had no problem claiming that he was love, and he had no problem claiming that he was a town power role "allegedly" but he won't go with a full roleclaim. Honestly, it seems more and more likely that he's scum and just got caught and now he's too frustrated to actually try to worm his way out of it.

unvote, edoc's claim can be tested pretty easily, it'd take quite a bit of WIFOM to maintain a mafia fakeclaim. Could be that a mafia framer altered the message?

Yes, I agree, Edocs claim can be tested, and every new day he's alive someone can testify that they got a message from the mod about Edoc (Good or bad, but we'll know the role is at least partially right).

I'm Unvoting in hopes that the replacement claims the power role.. and speaking of which, I need to replace DiM in MY Mafia game >.<

But as it stands atm, I really think Vodean is our best candidate for the day if we go with a lynch. Because of the 3, I think he's hiding something. Also, I thought Edoc being "Unhappy" Was his role.. As it turns out it's not his role, so I want to know what role Vodean got going on with him.

Vote Vodean

Also, noting Zimmah's behavior this game. >.< Not to cause threats or anything, but if this sort of behavior becomes a habit, I'm blacklisting him. Not to be rude, or anything, but to avoid unnecessary drama over a claim.

Whoever replaces Zimmah this game, will definitely have heat on them from me for a ROLE claim though.

[edocsil]

Vodean, You misunderstand the power of a mod-confirmed townie that is ONLY know to other townies. Obviously this is only true with the friendly neighbor never fucks up, but luckily the odds are in my favor. sure, it isn't a vig, but it can be useful, and it is nearly useless if it is widely known. That is what I claimed, not power, but no use if the role is known. Besides, it's incredibly easy to confirm and if the scum continue to f*ck with my action, well, then I am glad I continued to let the true town power function unhindered.

[Mr. Squirrel]

Soundman is replacing zimmah.

[Mr. Squirrel]

And doomyoshi will be replacing DiM, although he probably won't be able to post until this weekend.

[jak111]

So soundman buddy... you got until tonight to start with the claiming. Zimmah was under heat before you and now your claim is almost a necessity if we want to figure out this web of lies. Actions preferably as well.

[Mr. Squirrel]

So soundman buddy... you got until tonight to start with the claiming. Zimmah was under heat before you and now your claim is almost a necessity if we want to figure out this web of lies. Actions preferably as well.

GIve him some time to read first.

[zimmah]

good luck with this bunch of mindless hyenas soundman.

[vodean]

So let me get this straight. zimmah had no problem claiming that he was love, and he had no problem claiming that he was a town power role "allegedly" but he won't go with a full roleclaim. Honestly, it seems more and more likely that he's scum and just got caught and now he's too frustrated to actually try to worm his way out of it.

unvote, edoc's claim can be tested pretty easily, it'd take quite a bit of WIFOM to maintain a mafia fakeclaim. Could be that a mafia framer altered the message?

i agree with all of this, but it still seems (from my perspective, you guys can't know that im not lying, so you can't fully trust me) that we have caught edoc in a pretty clear lie.

zimmah, i am sorry that you aren't enjoying, but i wish you would just accept that we have a valid case and just claim!

[pancakemix]

Unfortunate that you're leaving us, zimmah. Hope there are no hard feelings.

What edoc is claiming amounts to a cop claim. That in mind, there is no reason not to test it.

Vote Vodean

[vodean]

Unfortunate that you're leaving us, zimmah. Hope there are no hard feelings.

What edoc is claiming amounts to a cop claim. That in mind, there is no reason not to test it.

Vote Vodean

a cop claim? really? he can send people PMs. or so he says. hardly a cop.

[jak111]

So soundman buddy... you got until tonight to start with the claiming. Zimmah was under heat before you and now your claim is almost a necessity if we want to figure out this web of lies. Actions preferably as well.

GIve him some time to read first.

Gotta make sure he knows where he's at when he catches up!

[edocsil]

So let me get this straight. zimmah had no problem claiming that he was love, and he had no problem claiming that he was a town power role "allegedly" but he won't go with a full roleclaim. Honestly, it seems more and more likely that he's scum and just got caught and now he's too frustrated to actually try to worm his way out of it.

unvote, edoc's claim can be tested pretty easily, it'd take quite a bit of WIFOM to maintain a mafia fakeclaim. Could be that a mafia framer altered the message?

i agree with all of this, but it still seems (from my perspective, you guys can't know that im not lying, so you can't fully trust me) that we have caught edoc in a pretty clear lie.

zimmah, i am sorry that you aren't enjoying, but i wish you would just accept that we have a valid case and just claim!

This is why I am voting you. You do not seem to see the other plausible scenarios besides you lying, or me lying. There are other ways this could happen then a simple lie on one of our parts.

[Campin_Killer]

Well, zimmah seems to have pulled the easy way out, which is a scummy move in my book, but that's just me.

[jak111]

Well, zimmah seems to have pulled the easy way out, which is a scummy move in my book, but that's just me.

Of course it's scummy, that's why Soundman is gonna have pressure when he catches up and doesn't claim.

[soundman]

Almost caught up now. Will hopefully be finished and posting later today.

[vodean]

So let me get this straight. zimmah had no problem claiming that he was love, and he had no problem claiming that he was a town power role "allegedly" but he won't go with a full roleclaim. Honestly, it seems more and more likely that he's scum and just got caught and now he's too frustrated to actually try to worm his way out of it.

unvote, edoc's claim can be tested pretty easily, it'd take quite a bit of WIFOM to maintain a mafia fakeclaim. Could be that a mafia framer altered the message?

i agree with all of this, but it still seems (from my perspective, you guys can't know that im not lying, so you can't fully trust me) that we have caught edoc in a pretty clear lie.

zimmah, i am sorry that you aren't enjoying, but i wish you would just accept that we have a valid case and just claim!

This is why I am voting you. You do not seem to see the other plausible scenarios besides you lying, or me lying. There are other ways this could happen then a simple lie on one of our parts.

im not saying its certain, just likely. and from my perspective, i know that if one of us is lying, it is you. its possible that some crazy WIFOM scum manipulation is responsible, but as per Occam's Razor, you always chose the simplest solution. please clarify to me how you are not lying.

[edocsil]

Just claim and stop wasting time. Either my claim will be verified through later days or it won't. For now people believe me due to the nature of my claimed role. Similar to FTC, when someone claims guilt, you don't go hang the cop, you test his claim.

[soundman]

Ok. So I get why Zimmah was targeted Day One. I would have gone after him. What I don't get is why a few of you are pushing him (now me) today. The only reason I can find is because Zimmah said love can only be town. And a few of you disagreed with what I have to say is really faulty logic. I pulled out my dictionary just for you guys.

Love, Noun, An intense feeling of deep affection. Verb, Feel a deep romantic or sexual attachment to (someone). What, not satisfied? Here's Wikipedia on love. "Love is also a virtue representing all of human kindness, compassion, and affection —"the unselfish loyal and benevolent concern for the good of another"."

Sounds pretty good to me.

Now on my read through I noticed something I would like to point out. Since the beginning Saf and Jak have both been in total agreement with each other. Could be nothing but something to watch. I don't know what to make of the whole Edocsil/Vodean thing. If we are to believe Edoc then there was obviously some kind of busdrive. Could be that the busdriver also switches what the action does? Makes it do the reverse?

Vodean has been acting scummy since the start of the game. However if he is telling the truth and he's curiosity then there's a good chance that he has an important role. With the doc dead I'd rather keep the scum guessing. So I'm unsure as to whether I should vote him or not. I'd also like to vote Saf and Jak for illogical conclusions but that would only be seen as OMGUS at this point. I would need more evidence of scummy behavior before doing that.

[jak111]

Soundman, you're now under pressure for a claim because of how Zimmah played, not totally because of the role claim. For all we know he could have been fake claiming. Sure a dictionary definition is good and fine but remember, this is mafia first and foremost so anything goes.

There is nothing illogical about believing someone is either scum or aren't what they appear to be. Now, to go through with my promise since you are putting off claiming Unvote, Vote Soundman

I'm sorry, but this prolonging of claiming is just getting me more and more suspicious about the entire claim. Is this Mafia or is this a "he told on me" fight, hmm? I'm not satisfied with only "Love" as a claim. Stall any more and I'm keeping my vote here due to extreme scummy behaviour, first from Zimmah, now with your refusal to cooperate with what a lot of people have been waiting for. I'm sure we have a role out there that can somehow protect you, Jailer, Busdriver, Watcher, if you're really soo important. Otherwise I see it as you being caught in a lie (Well Zimmah originally) and refusing to claim because you're afraid whatever you claim may be counter claimed by the real role owner.

Sure, it may be WIFOM and we may put you at more risk, but not coming out about it may turn away any protection roles to help you due to them perhaps not believing you. If you're a powerful role, chances are mafia already have a game plan to take you out at the moment. I'm not sure about Saf, but I want to know who I am protecting, not some mystical "I have to be town because of my role emotion, and I'm powerful so it's bad for town if I claim". No.. that's not going to fly by me.

Without going into detail I need to know what I'm dealing with when using my role. Do not let me use it blindly.

[strike wolf]

Oh how I wish I was still in this game. lol.

[pancakemix]

Soundman, you're now under pressure for a claim because of how Zimmah played, not totally because of the role claim. For all we know he could have been fake claiming. Sure a dictionary definition is good and fine but remember, this is mafia first and foremost so anything goes.

There is nothing illogical about believing someone is either scum or aren't what they appear to be. Now, to go through with my promise since you are putting off claiming Unvote, Vote Soundman

I'm sorry, but this prolonging of claiming is just getting me more and more suspicious about the entire claim. Is this Mafia or is this a "he told on me" fight, hmm? I'm not satisfied with only "Love" as a claim. Stall any more and I'm keeping my vote here due to extreme scummy behaviour, first from Zimmah, now with your refusal to cooperate with what a lot of people have been waiting for. I'm sure we have a role out there that can somehow protect you, Jailer, Busdriver, Watcher, if you're really soo important. Otherwise I see it as you being caught in a lie (Well Zimmah originally) and refusing to claim because you're afraid whatever you claim may be counter claimed by the real role owner.

Sure, it may be WIFOM and we may put you at more risk, but not coming out about it may turn away any protection roles to help you due to them perhaps not believing you. If you're a powerful role, chances are mafia already have a game plan to take you out at the moment. I'm not sure about Saf, but I want to know who I am protecting, not some mystical "I have to be town because of my role emotion, and I'm powerful so it's bad for town if I claim". No.. that's not going to fly by me.

Without going into detail I need to know what I'm dealing with when using my role. Do not let me use it blindly.

I hate to break it to you, but there's an effective investigative claim to test right now. That needs to be handled first and foremost. I really don't get why you're keeping on this so much when there are bigger fish to fry (or rather, more direct fish).

[jak111]

I hate to break it to you, but there's an effective investigative claim to test right now. That needs to be handled first and foremost. I really don't get why you're keeping on this so much when there are bigger fish to fry (or rather, more direct fish).

Because, to me, Soundman is part of the web of lies. Edoc claims to have sent it to him, so he could be lying and sent it to Vodean to lie about (Well Zimmah did). You guys got the Vodean/Edoc part of this case, I think Saf and I got Soundman. The biggest fish we could fry with this is catch two mafia in one lie. Without Soundman having an alibi, he's at risk of being scum and lying about his role. For WIFOM sakes there may be no love and it could have been given to scum to fake claim.

So yes, there is an effective investigation going on Pancake. We have it narrowed down. The more we squeeze the more Zimmah/Soundman wont budge. Hence, they need added pressure to pop the information out.

[/]

I hate to break it to you, but there's an effective investigative claim to test right now. That needs to be handled first and foremost. I really don't get why you're keeping on this so much when there are bigger fish to fry (or rather, more direct fish).

So, are you saying we should no lynch so we might test edoc's claim tonight?
a bit of an odd strategy, but I will object to little.

[pancakemix]

I hate to break it to you, but there's an effective investigative claim to test right now. That needs to be handled first and foremost. I really don't get why you're keeping on this so much when there are bigger fish to fry (or rather, more direct fish).

So, are you saying we should no lynch so we might test edoc's claim tonight?
a bit of an odd strategy, but I will object to little.

I'm suggesting we lynch vodean, because that will determine whether edoc is telling the truth about his investigation powers.

@jak: I'm going to defer to edoc's earlier statement.

I am Joy. Friendly Neighbor. I can PM someones name to the mod at night they are told I am town "A very happy townie." to be explicit. I chose Zimmah last night. In the morning, Vodean says I am "unhappy" A few things could be happening.

First, Zimmah and Vodean are scum, they lie today to try to get me hung. Fairly simple. With my vacation they may even be able to pull off a quicklynch.

Second, someone "reverses" my action and it is retargeted to Vodean. This is what I had at first assumed to be the case, but the more I think of it the more insanely OP this hypothetical role would be, and given the otherwise vannila-ish roles I have been seeing so far this seems out of place.

Third, Zimmah was driven, some scum was told I was a "happy townie" and now Vodean is trying to paste it on me.

The first hypothesis is the simpler, and less convoluted answers are much more likely to be correct, the second one doesn't really fit within sane game mechanics. While my initial defense of Zimmah still makes logical sense, my confidence in it's accuracy is greatly weakened.

The common line between two of the conclusions is that Vodean is scum, so I will Vote Vodean

Not only will we be testing an investigation, but we have a higher likelihood of actually catching scum. I'm not saying sound isn't/can't be scum, I'm saying we should place our chips on the safer bet.

[vodean]

pancake, i understand your sentiment, but have to disagree, in part because it would not mean that soundman were cleared, and moreover, sacrificing one townie to prove another's innocence is pretty poor play. by poor, i mean expensive. this is a small game, and we are already down two townies.
FOS pcm