ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

[thegreekdog]

I'm not a fan of the obstructionist mentality, like GOPers who spoke out the day this President was inaugurated saying, "I'm going to do all I can to insure Obama is a one term President." The democratically elected government and public officials are supposed to represent the citizens first and that shouldn't be trumped by party affiliation. I anticipate bias, but also expect some people to move beyond business as usual and stagnant party politics.

States who have put in place as many speed bumps as possible to slow the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act's implementation can't point and laugh without looking like fucktards. Since they are the initial flaw and a bad joke that must be overcome.

Okay, again, in the context of voting for President Obama twice, this statement is largely hypocritical and something I can fairly disregard as partisan.

While I agree with the idea that "business as usual" and "party politics" are negatives of our government, they are not limited to one party. They are characteristics of both parties (and characteristics encouraged by our current voting/political methodology). So while you have a great point that these things are negatives, when you bring them up in the context of this particluar issue (government shutdown/Affordable Care Act) and limit your criticism to one party (Republicans) without criticizing the other party in this or on any other issue, I question your motivations and whether you are willing to "go to bat" when the shoe is on the other foot. I've made similar comments to Phatscotty in the past, lest you think I'm also being partisan.

[oVo]

While I agree with the idea that "business as usual" and "party politics" are negatives of our government, they are not limited to one party.

Exactly. I live in Texas and watched Bush deregulate up our wazoos as governor before moving on to the White House. I'm not fond of either party and want to believe in whoever can make a functioning government their priority. Eight years of watching Bush impose his will on the nation and bully the world made me want to see a change.

I believe there are many things that need reformed that this government will never touch and see Health Care as a starting point. Obama has big balls to even put this on his agenda, who else has bothered to raise this issue and then actually do something about it?

To the opposition I say...PUT UP OR SHUT UP! Let's give it a shot and see
where it goes. There's problems with how health care is handled right now in America and I anticipate problems with the Affordable Care Act too. Congress sitting around with their thumbs up their asses certainly doesn't fix anything. If anyone has a better plan? Toss it out there. Otherwise let's run with this one, quit speculating and see wtf happens.

[thegreekdog]

While I agree with the idea that "business as usual" and "party politics" are negatives of our government, they are not limited to one party.

Exactly. I live in Texas and watched Bush deregulate up our wazoos as governor before moving on to the White House. I'm not fond of either party and want to believe in whoever can make a functioning government their priority. Eight years of watching Bush impose his will on the nation and bully the world made me want to see a change.

I believe there are many things that need reformed that this government will never touch and see Health Care as a starting point. Obama has big balls to even put this on his agenda, who else has bothered to raise this issue and then actually do something about it?

To the opposition I say...PUT UP OR SHUT UP! Let's give it a shot and see
where it goes. There's problems with how health care is handled right now in America and I anticipate problems with the Affordable Care Act too. Congress sitting around with their thumbs up their asses certainly doesn't fix anything. If anyone has a better plan? Toss it out there. Otherwise let's run with this one, quit speculating and see wtf happens.

I take umbrage with a lot of the above for various reasons that I'll indicate below, but it sounds like you're pretty firmly entrenched in your line of thinking. But let me parse it out anyway:

(1) "Bush is bad." - I think we can all agree on that.
(2) "Bush imposed his will on the nation and world." - I'm not sure what that has to do with anything given that (a) President Obama does the same thing generally and (b) President Obama does very similar specific things to President Bush (e.g. foreign intervention, increased spending, increased surveillance, tax preference for allies, etc.) There are really no discernable differences (no one could name 5) between President Obama and candidate Romney. What would a Romney administration look like? Pretty much the same as the Obama administration is right now.
(3) "Obama put it on the agenda, therefore he's got large testicles." - I couldn't disagree more. First, he ran on and won partially because of affordable health care. In other words, he was popular because of it. If he would have run on an unpopular idea, he would have big balls. But he didn't, so he doesn't. Further, he got a lot of credit (including from me at the time) for brining Republicans to the table to discuss. He ended up ignoring the Republicans (which I'm now fairly certain was the plan in the first place), which showed that he did the safe thing; he knew he could get it passed in Congress in the two years where Democrats ruled the world. So, no big balls.
(4) "The ACA was the only idea." - This is not true. First, there were more statist plans (e.g. single payor system). Second, there were Republican versions of the same plan (i.e. the ACA or Republicancare - see, e.g. Mittens's plan in Massachusetts or the Republicans' plan in the 1990s). Third, there were free market "plans" (i.e. get the government out of health insurance completely).

[Gillipig]

If the tables were turned, Democrats would be pulling all the stops as well. Nearly all politicians nearly all the time act on their self-interests, so I don't find contrary expectations and hopes to be useful or even reasonable.

Nor would I find criticisms aimed at one party to generate any useful knowledge; all that accomplishes is 'ignore what my side would've done if the circumstances were different' and 'yay, go us, we're so awesome!'. That kind of thinking promotes idiocy; therefore, Ezra Klein is certainly a dildo.

I'll retract that conclusion because dildos are much more valuable than the Ezra Kleins and Billy Mahers of this world. Instead, they are degenerates.

I don't understand how you can support one party over the other when you recognize that they're all selfcentered and don't really care about the people they govern. For me that's the sort of thing that makes me go "why should I choose between pest or cholera?" and "let's change this worthless populist system and try something more sustainable", but it doesn't seem to bother you very much. I have your internal dialogue down at something like this, let me know if I'm wrong and how:
"I know they're all corrupt motherfuckers but you got to choose someone don't you? Besides, I like money and one party takes less of my money than the other. Ca-ching, I'm a Republican!"

[Nobunaga]

Meanwhile, Harry and his staff are exempted. Funny how that works.

"What right do they have to pick and choose what to fund"?, he asks....

This kind of statement is for the average stupid American who doesn't know any better.

I wish he'd tell us, what right does the Executive have to apply law to some, and to exempt others. (I'd be asking Harry, because Barack is even less verbose on the subject).

[Nobunaga]

Obamacare Fines to be Seized From Bank Accounts?

Said a man who managed to log into the Exchange today (underlines are mine):

“I actually made it through this morning at 8:00 A.M. I have a preexisting condition (Type 1 Diabetes) and my income base was 45K-55K annually I chose tier 2 “Silver Plan” and my monthly premiums came out to $597.00 with $13,988 yearly deductible!!! There is NO POSSIBLE way that I can afford this so I “opt-out” and chose to continue along with no insurance.

I received an email tonight at 5:00 P.M. informing me that my fine would be $4,037 and could be attached to my yearly income tax return. Then you make it to the “REPERCUSSIONS PORTION” for “non-payment” of yearly fine. First, your drivers license will be suspended until paid, and if you go 24 consecutive months with “Non-Payment” and you happen to be a home owner, you will have a federal tax lien placed on your home. You can agree to give your bank information so that they can easy “Automatically withdraw” your “penalties” weekly, bi-weekly or monthly! This by no means is “Free” or even “Affordable.”

http://www.infowars.com/obamacare-fines ... -accounts/

Welcome to liberal paradise.

[BigBallinStalin]

If the tables were turned, Democrats would be pulling all the stops as well. Nearly all politicians nearly all the time act on their self-interests, so I don't find contrary expectations and hopes to be useful or even reasonable.

Nor would I find criticisms aimed at one party to generate any useful knowledge; all that accomplishes is 'ignore what my side would've done if the circumstances were different' and 'yay, go us, we're so awesome!'. That kind of thinking promotes idiocy; therefore, Ezra Klein is certainly a dildo.

I'll retract that conclusion because dildos are much more valuable than the Ezra Kleins and Billy Mahers of this world. Instead, they are degenerates.

I don't understand how you can support one party over the other

I don't.

For me that's the sort of thing that makes me go "why should I choose between pest or cholera?" and "let's change this worthless populist system and try something more sustainable",

I agree.

[jj3044]

Obamacare Fines to be Seized From Bank Accounts?

Said a man who managed to log into the Exchange today (underlines are mine):

“I actually made it through this morning at 8:00 A.M. I have a preexisting condition (Type 1 Diabetes) and my income base was 45K-55K annually I chose tier 2 “Silver Plan” and my monthly premiums came out to $597.00 with $13,988 yearly deductible!!! There is NO POSSIBLE way that I can afford this so I “opt-out” and chose to continue along with no insurance.

I received an email tonight at 5:00 P.M. informing me that my fine would be $4,037 and could be attached to my yearly income tax return. Then you make it to the “REPERCUSSIONS PORTION” for “non-payment” of yearly fine. First, your drivers license will be suspended until paid, and if you go 24 consecutive months with “Non-Payment” and you happen to be a home owner, you will have a federal tax lien placed on your home. You can agree to give your bank information so that they can easy “Automatically withdraw” your “penalties” weekly, bi-weekly or monthly! This by no means is “Free” or even “Affordable.”

http://www.infowars.com/obamacare-fines ... -accounts/

Welcome to liberal paradise.

He must have put in a family plan, and was looking at a high deductible plan that may have had other benefits (such as low doctor co-payments and low co-pay for maintenance (Diabetes) medications). It may have actually been a good plan for someone who wasn't planning a surgery... probably more of a catastrophic level coverage plan.

Also, if the government was collecting names on the site for the purposes of building a database of uninsured, I think they would have made that a requirement in all of the states running their own exchange. In my state you can shop for coverage and the only things you need to enter in are your age, if your pregnant, and your income level.

Also, there is no other fine other than the "tax" of $95... looks like a scam that this guy fell for. Unfortunately there are a lot of scams out there right now looking to take advantage of schmucks.

TGD, here is a link to a story on the 85% (group), 80% (individual) requirement (a quick Google search):
http://www.bankrate.com/finance/insuran ... bates.aspx

[thegreekdog]

TGD, here is a link to a story on the 85% (group), 80% (individual) requirement (a quick Google search):
http://www.bankrate.com/finance/insuran ... bates.aspx

Thanks. I did do a google search, but not for the right term ("MLR").

[Phatscotty]

There is a rumor going around the ER here, that someone who is on Obamacare and has children who are failing in school must let the government into the household to fix it, or else you lose your insurance.

Anyone heard anything about this or able to post some information?

[Night Strike]

To the opposition I say...PUT UP OR SHUT UP! Let's give it a shot and see
where it goes. There's problems with how health care is handled right now in America and I anticipate problems with the Affordable Care Act too. Congress sitting around with their thumbs up their asses certainly doesn't fix anything. If anyone has a better plan? Toss it out there. Otherwise let's run with this one, quit speculating and see wtf happens.

Our lives are not something for the government to toss around as they please and to experiment upon as they desire. Our country can't afford a $1 trillion "shot" at something that was designed to fail. How is a program sustainable when it provides subsidies for families who make $94,000 a year?

[karel]

think you all need to shut the f*ck up,as it looks your dear republican tea baggers f*CK EVERYTHING UP,now pay the price...you cantv overturn it,is ur party that stupid?must be,morons...well now you get 1payrt in both houses,thx jack asses,well done

[karel]

and hey morons,even tho the law is wrong,its the law,ur goold ol budy john roberts made it a law,so suck it up,nothing you can do,fucking tea party radicals sob's

[Nobunaga]

think you all need to shut the f*ck up,as it looks your dear republican tea baggers f*CK EVERYTHING UP,now pay the price...you cantv overturn it,is ur party that stupid?must be,morons...well now you get 1payrt in both houses,thx jack asses,well done

and hey morons,even tho the law is wrong,its the law,ur goold ol budy john roberts made it a law,so suck it up,nothing you can do,fucking tea party radicals sob's

I bet you're a lot of fun at parties.

[Nobunaga]

I thought this was pretty entertaining.

[Phatscotty]

Obamacare is so good that:

- Obama pays people to speak positively about Obamacare

On Thursday, Democrat tool Chad Henderson claimed to have enrolled in ObamaCare while most others' attempts failed. News organizations eagerly lapped up his story. Apparently, though, the story was "too good to check," because when someone finally did, it fell apart, discrediting Big Media, the Democrats, and ObamaCare.

Conservative and libertarian websites now are reporting the corrected story, and even some Big Media outlets reluctantly are reporting it. But almost as devastating to the left is Mr. Henderson's confession that he is being paid to post pro-Democrat propaganda on the internet:

"Secondly, I work for an organization that pays me quarterly to posts [sic] the political stuff as "advocacy" (so it's kind of my job)."

He claims to be employed as a "Volunteer at Organizing for America." Does that mean the president's OFA fundraising machine actually has to pay people to post Democrat talking points on other websites?

Does it also pay "trolls" to disrupt civil debate in the comment sections of conservative websites? We already know that Democrat activists illegally censor constitutionally protected free speech by pulling fire alarms when conservatives speak on college campuses; are they using similar stunts on the internet?

Mr. Henderson also claims to be a "Daycare Teacher (mmm hmm!) at Flintstone Child Care Center." Does the childcare center get special tax breaks or taxpayer-funded grants? If so, will the IRS inquire as to whether any taxpayer money was used to pay employees to promote the Democrat agenda? (As Wayne Campbell once said, "it might happen...")

After being exposed as a Democrat shill, Mr. Henderson now says his Facebook post about being a paid propagandist was a "joke." But that means either that this guy is the world's worst comedian or that he's making misleading statements to cover up his earlier misleading statements.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/201 ... 0.facebook


Here is why he is even in the news at all: Obamacare supporters are holding this guy up as a hero or something, and anyone with a brain is labeling him a complete tool, a liar, and a moron.

Chad Henderson, a college student who is one of the few people to have signed up for health insurance on a federal exchange, is having his 15 minutes of Obamacare fame.

The 21-year-old Georgian and former Obama campaign volunteer hit “send” on his online health insurance when the exchanges opened Tuesday, and was catapulted quickly into the Obamacare spin wars.

Now, reporters are clogging Henderson’s voicemail, pro-Obamacare forces are holding him up as a poster child of the health law and administration officials are giving him shout-outs on Twitter. He’s one of the few — the administration hasn’t said how few — people to get through the glitch-plagued online enrollment system. He has been uninsured since he was around 6 years old when his father, a single parent, could no longer afford coverage.

“It is such a huge honor,” Henderson, a student with a part-time job at a day care center, said of the flood of attention. “The fact that the White House shared my story and Enroll America asked me for some help is a major blessing to me.”

Henderson became an Obamacare talking point after tweeting to local news outlets about his successful enrollment on Oct. 1. His story ended upon the radar of federal officials and, eventually, Enroll America, the nonprofit White House ally urging people to sign up for coverage.

And his 15 minutes could turn into much more if examples of successful enrollees remain hard to come by. Henderson tweeted Thursday afternoon that he’d been interviewed by the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, the Huffington Post and POLITICO. He was originally going to be part of an afternoon press conference with Enroll America, but instead two other people who got covered through the exchanges— a college student from Florida and a small business owner in Kentucky — were featured.

A handful of examples of federal exchange enrollees emerged in scattered reports around the country. The Obama administration has not released enrollment data although it has said more than 7 million unique visitors have been to the federal website, which is still having technical problems. (Anyone else heard Demcrats bragging about how many 'HITS' the website has???? pfff LULZ)

Henderson told POLITICO that he and his father started signing up for coverage as soon as exchanges went live — midnight on October 1. Enrollment took three hours, mostly because the system crashed every time he tried to create an account. Once he got through that step, he said the process was simple.

“It’s like looking at a Verizon Wireless phone comparison,” he said.

No one else he knows has managed to sign up, he added.

Henderson’s exactly the kind of person the White House wants to enroll, one of the so-called young invincibles — younger, healthier people that the exchanges need to balance out the costs of older and sicker Americans. As a part-time worker with a low income, he would likely have been Medicaid-eligible if his state had opted to expand the program to those below 138 percent of the poverty level, as Obamacare allows. But Georgia didn’t, and Henderson said he won’t be eligible for a subsidy, although he said intends to appeal that decision early next year. And while he’s thrilled that he’ll finally have coverage on Jan 1, his plan lacks dental and vision care, features he would have preferred if he had the chance.

The father and son signed up for a bronze plan in Georgia’s federal exchange, the lowest cost, least generous level of coverage available, Henderson said. Anything more comprehensive would’ve been too costly.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/c ... z2gpfYsf7i

Here's why this guy is either a troll or a complete moron

Other details from Chad’s story were also difficult to verify. He said his premium was unsubsidized, and cost around $175 a month for the cheapest Bronze coverage plan available. He told the Chattanooga Times Free Press that he got his coverage through Blue Cross Blue Shield. But the cheapest unsubsidized Bronze exchange plan at Blue Cross Blue Shield’s online Quick Quote system offers for a 21-year-old in Flintstone, Georgia is $225.09 a month.

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer ... z2gph93lOE

So this guy who was playing the victim card about how he is so poor and has not been able to afford insurance, can now all of a sudden afford $175/month? As if that is more affordable than a private plan, in which he could also purchase the bare minimum policy in his state for about $44/month.

Now this is where he gets busted

But in an exclusive phone interview this morning with Reason, Chad's father Bill contradicted virtually every major detail of the story the media can't get enough of. What's more, some of the details that Chad has released are also at odds with published rate schedules and how Obamacare officials say the enrollment system works.

The coverage of Chad Henderson has been massive. He was featured in The Washington Post Thursday as “the Obamacare enrollee that tons of reporters are calling.” He was also profiled in The Huffington Post as someone who “beat the glitches to sign up for Obamacare.” He was interviewed by Politico, multiple local news organizations, and, according to his Facebook feed, was asked to be part of a conference call hosted by the Department of Health and Human Services.

Chad's story was tweeted out by the official Obamacare Twitter feed. It was promoted to the media by Enroll America, a health-care activist group headed by a former White House communications staffer, as a sign of Obamacare’s success.

... Henderson’s story was promoted as proof that the new health law can work for individuals. That was exactly how Chad intended it. He was a volunteer with President Obama’s campaign last year, and his LinkedIn page still lists him as an active volunteer with Organizing for Action, the former campaign organization which now advocates for the president’s legislative agenda.

... Bill Henderson told me that both he and his son were interested in getting coverage, but that he had not enrolled in any plan yet, and to his knowledge, neither had his son. He also said that when they do enroll, getting the most coverage for the least money would be the goal, and that he expects that he and his son will get coverage under the same plan.

... Other details from Chad’s story were also difficult to verify. He said his premium was unsubsidized, and cost around $175 a month for the cheapest Bronze coverage plan available. He told the Chattanooga Times Free Press that he got his coverage through Blue Cross Blue Shield. But the cheapest unsubsidized Bronze exchange plan at Blue Cross Blue Shield’s online Quick Quote system offers for a 21-year-old in Flintstone, Georgia is $225.09 a month.

Additionally, Chad could not have purchased a separate plan for his father from his own login to HealthCare.gov, the website for the federal exchanges. A customer assistance representative on HealthCare.gov’s LiveChat system told me that purchasing separate plans for a son and a father in Georgia would require two separate logins. Which means that Chad would have had to successfully create two different accounts, and complete enrollment twice, at a time when almost no one was able to get through on the system.

Well, I guess our good buddy Chad could just have a bad memory and could have entered his father's information in separately without his permission. Last time I checked, that's a form of identity theft. Apparently admitting to that is a necessary condition for his story holding up.

Chad Henderson has apparently been a major spotlight-seeker. At 1:24 p.m., Sarah Kliff at the Washington Post, home of Janet Cooke, the Pulitzer Prize winner of made-up stories, questioned the story's legitimacy, called Chad "Obamacare's celebrity enrollee," and noted that "Either somebody is lying, or the Henderson family needs to work on its communication skills." That's not a good sign, bud.

Hopefully celebrity Chad will be available to answer all the questions the too-good-to-check press hasn't been interested in asking to this point.

How about doing the work you guys should have done in the first place?

UPDATE: Part of Sarah Kliff's WaPo update:

Update: I spoke with Chad over the phone about this situation. He told me that he has indeed not purchased coverage but doesn't believe he was lying. He said he told reporters that he completed an application for coverage and knows what plan he would like to purchase, but has not, as of yet, enrolled in that insurance plan.

Chad Henderson: Here’s my response. Most reporters, I’m not calling anyone out especially you, they haven't had access to the web site. They weren't very clear as to how the process went. Most people have no understanding that it’s a two step process. One is you fill out an application. It sends you a notification received successfully.

The next step is comparing the prices, comparing all the plans. And that’s when you purchase the plan. I said I enrolled in the marketplace. I never said I chose a specific plan. But the number I gave you, the $175 or $200 or whatever, that is the plan I am choosing. My dad is choosing a different plan. So, enrollment meant that my application was sent and approved. That’s what I meant by enrollment. I have not purchased a specific plan. That’s what’s confusing people.

So setting up a profile while not buying anything is the same as "enrolling." Sure, guy.

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer ... z2gphsEZS2

Hey, remember when Obama was campaigning for Obamacare to be passed in Congress, and he handed out all the doctors coats behind the scenes so that it gave the impression doctors support it?

What America didn't see


What the media showed America all day everyday for a week

Remember to choose people by the color of their skin!

[PLAYER57832]

To the opposition I say...PUT UP OR SHUT UP! Let's give it a shot and see
where it goes. There's problems with how health care is handled right now in America and I anticipate problems with the Affordable Care Act too. Congress sitting around with their thumbs up their asses certainly doesn't fix anything. If anyone has a better plan? Toss it out there. Otherwise let's run with this one, quit speculating and see wtf happens.

Our lives are not something for the government to toss around as they please and to experiment upon as they desire. Our country can't afford a $1 trillion "shot" at something that was designed to fail. How is a program sustainable when it provides subsidies for families who make $94,000 a year?

oH PLEASE...

No matter WHAT is done, it will be an "experiement", and contrary to your ideas about some remote and unlistening "government" pushing all of this on people, it was a choice made by ALL our elected representatives. Some disagreed, some still do, but that is how a representative DEMOCRACY works. Your side had a chance, you had your say... and the country elected Obama, not McCain, with the Affordable Care Act as a primary reason why they supported Obama over McCain. YOUR SIDE LOST.

Right now, there is nothing good or intelligent or Democratic about a few congresspeople deciding that they, and they alone have the right to hold the rest of the country hostage to their personal political desires. They are representing their areas... so what! The rest of congress is representing THEIR areas.

Right now, it really doesn't matter if you like or dislike Obamacare. The process decided, the PEOPLE decided. Maybe it will fail, but maybe, just maybe it will succeed. Changes are almost certainly warranted, as they are with ANY big, new program. But the way these Tea Party House Republicans are acting is treasonous.. flat out treasonous. They are subverting the process, claiming that they have the right, alone to ignore the rest of congress and the votes of the American people in the last 2 elections. That they got elected in their areas doesn't give them the right to bullhorn the rest of the country. It is their job to do their best to push what they want, sure, but NOT to the point of destroying our country because things are not going the way they think they ought...and make no mistake, shutting down the government, or, worse yet.. not increasing the debt limit do exactly that.

The first round of the Obamacare fight was fought, and YOUR SIDE LOST! Tough break, but that is how a real government works. You can believe as strongly as you like that you "know best", that you "know" how this will play out, but guess what? So does everyone who supports the act. More importantly, MOST people understand that, like Obamacare or not, it is here. The people really DID decide in its favor. You don't have to like it, but you and the congresspeople DO need to go forward with running the country as it is.

And that is the ultimate, real point.. its not whether the Affordable Care Act is or is not a good piece of legislation or not. Its not about whether it will or will not do what supporters claim. Right now, its about running our government so people can live their lives and make do. Its about accepting that not every decision in a democracy goes the way you want... and being adult enough to recognize that no matter what, in the long run, it is that process that matters more than any particular position or individual ideal.

SHAME on you, SHAME on anyone party and supporting of this destruction of America..a nd don't you DARE try to pass the blame on people who just happen to disagree with you on a few political points.

I did not vote for McCain, but I have always respected him as a decent man and politician. He said it best. " I was opposed to this legislation, I did not like it, I STILL do not like it, but the people have spoken. We LOST..and now it is our duty to go forward with running the country the way the people demand. We can fight for changes later, but now is not the time."

[Night Strike]

No matter WHAT is done, it will be an "experiement", and contrary to your ideas about some remote and unlistening "government" pushing all of this on people, it was a choice made by ALL our elected representatives. Some disagreed, some still do, but that is how a representative DEMOCRACY works. Your side had a chance, you had your say... and the country elected Obama, not McCain, with the Affordable Care Act as a primary reason why they supported Obama over McCain. YOUR SIDE LOST.

So now if a law is passed by ONLY Democrats, it means that all elected representatives made that choice? And no, Obama was voted for based on "Hope and Change", not the biggest government ever seen.

Right now, there is nothing good or intelligent or Democratic about a few congresspeople deciding that they, and they alone have the right to hold the rest of the country hostage to their personal political desires. They are representing their areas... so what! The rest of congress is representing THEIR areas.

So even though it's all Republicans voting for the current actions, they're only a "few congresspeople" while before you said that all Democrats meant all congresspeople. Make up your mind.

Right now, it really doesn't matter if you like or dislike Obamacare. The process decided, the PEOPLE decided. Maybe it will fail, but maybe, just maybe it will succeed. Changes are almost certainly warranted, as they are with ANY big, new program. But the way these Tea Party House Republicans are acting is treasonous.. flat out treasonous. They are subverting the process, claiming that they have the right, alone to ignore the rest of congress and the votes of the American people in the last 2 elections. That they got elected in their areas doesn't give them the right to bullhorn the rest of the country. It is their job to do their best to push what they want, sure, but NOT to the point of destroying our country because things are not going the way they think they ought...and make no mistake, shutting down the government, or, worse yet.. not increasing the debt limit do exactly that.

So it's treasonous to work to change a law? And how are they destroying the country any worse than we know Obamacare is already destroying it? By the way, our country is already being destroyed by our trillions of dollars of debt while also printing trillions of dollars in fake money, yet you have absolutely no problem with those. Why do you worship giant, unsustainable government? And the Republicans are following the exact process set out in the Constitution for government funding....why do the Democrats refuse to hold votes and negotiate funding?

The first round of the Obamacare fight was fought, and YOUR SIDE LOST! Tough break, but that is how a real government works. You can believe as strongly as you like that you "know best", that you "know" how this will play out, but guess what? So does everyone who supports the act. More importantly, MOST people understand that, like Obamacare or not, it is here. The people really DID decide in its favor. You don't have to like it, but you and the congresspeople DO need to go forward with running the country as it is.

F*** YOU TOO!!!! Since that's the what you think the role of the government is: to f*** over people. Guess what, round 2 IS now, and your side is losing by refusing to compromise. Why does Obama illegally make dozens of changes to the law, but then cries and cries when Congress tries to legally make 3 changes? What do you have against the American people that causes you to support delays for big businesses but not individuals? Don't you believe that businesses are evil and people are good? Well this president is against the people, and you apparently support it.

And that is the ultimate, real point.. its not whether the Affordable Care Act is or is not a good piece of legislation or not. Its not about whether it will or will not do what supporters claim. Right now, its about running our government so people can live their lives and make do. Its about accepting that not every decision in a democracy goes the way you want... and being adult enough to recognize that no matter what, in the long run, it is that process that matters more than any particular position or individual ideal.

And the process allows for every Congress to approve funding without being bound to the what previous Congresses passed. But I guess you don't like that process since it's being used against your using the government to control people's lives.

SHAME on you, SHAME on anyone party and supporting of this destruction of America..a nd don't you DARE try to pass the blame on people who just happen to disagree with you on a few political points.

And yet you support the Democratic Party that is looking to control every single thing individuals are allowed to do? How is that not destroying America?

I did not vote for McCain, but I have always respected him as a decent man and politician. He said it best. " I was opposed to this legislation, I did not like it, I STILL do not like it, but the people have spoken. We LOST..and now it is our duty to go forward with running the country the way the people demand. We can fight for changes later, but now is not the time."

What McCain fails to realize is that the people spoke again in both 2010 and 2012, otherwise Republicans wouldn't have the House and real conservatives wouldn't keep growing in numbers. Of course, McCain doesn't know what real conservatism means, so it's not surprising why he thinks the government should continually grow and never be abated, no matter what the program is. He's a progressive, not a conservative.

[PLAYER57832]

No matter WHAT is done, it will be an "experiement", and contrary to your ideas about some remote and unlistening "government" pushing all of this on people, it was a choice made by ALL our elected representatives. Some disagreed, some still do, but that is how a representative DEMOCRACY works. Your side had a chance, you had your say... and the country elected Obama, not McCain, with the Affordable Care Act as a primary reason why they supported Obama over McCain. YOUR SIDE LOST.

So now if a law is passed by ONLY Democrats, it means that all elected representatives made that choice?

Doesn't matter WHO voted, once a law is passed, it is the LAW. And yes, bills are passed "by congress", not just Democrats or Republicans .. or Whigs or Socialists or any other group.

Do you, seriously think I like every law that has been passed.. regardless of the party. Ooops, I guess I forgot who I was talking to, because you have made plain you DO think that way. You are wrong, and don't seem to understand democracy for all your education. Pretty sad, that.

Ultimately, in a representative Democracy, LOTS of things happen, few are exactly what ANYONE wants.. but, in normal times, things go forward. The country works, albiet imperfectly.. often because of those imperfections.

And no, Obama was voted for based on "Hope and Change", not the biggest government ever seen.

Pretend all you want that the Tea Party and Republicans didn't claim the election would be a "referendum" on "Obamacare", but they did. If your side had won, I have little doubt you would be parading that point heavily! Being a sore loser is unattractive in kids. In adults.. its downright destructive.

Right now, there is nothing good or intelligent or Democratic about a few congresspeople deciding that they, and they alone have the right to hold the rest of the country hostage to their personal political desires. They are representing their areas... so what! The rest of congress is representing THEIR areas.

So even though it's all Republicans voting for the current actions, they're only a "few congresspeople" while before you said that all Democrats meant all congresspeople. Make up your mind.

ALL Republicans are in no way, shape or form in favor of shutting down the government to end Obamacare. It IS a few Republicans who decided that should be the tactic and that they have the right to bully the rest.

Note.. at this point, is not about liking or disliking Obamacare, its about making our government continue working.

Right now, it really doesn't matter if you like or dislike Obamacare. The process decided, the PEOPLE decided. Maybe it will fail, but maybe, just maybe it will succeed. Changes are almost certainly warranted, as they are with ANY big, new program. But the way these Tea Party House Republicans are acting is treasonous.. flat out treasonous. They are subverting the process, claiming that they have the right, alone to ignore the rest of congress and the votes of the American people in the last 2 elections. That they got elected in their areas doesn't give them the right to bullhorn the rest of the country. It is their job to do their best to push what they want, sure, but NOT to the point of destroying our country because things are not going the way they think they ought...and make no mistake, shutting down the government, or, worse yet.. not increasing the debt limit do exactly that.

So it's treasonous to work to change a law?

No, its treasonous to use the methods they are using. Its treasonous to refuse to pay millions of federal workers, shut down parks, headstart programs, the parts and other programs that this and prior congress' have already voted on because they did not get their way on healthcare reform.

And how are they destroying the country any worse than we know Obamacare is already destroying it? By the way, our country is already being destroyed by our trillions of dollars of debt while also printing trillions of dollars in fake money, yet you have absolutely no problem with those. Why do you worship giant, unsustainable government? And the Republicans are following the exact process set out in the Constitution for government funding....why do the Democrats refuse to hold votes and negotiate funding?

Are you TRULY that stupid???
Do you know so little about Obamacare that you fail to understand it is NOT YET IMPLEMENTED!!! Anything you or anyone else says about its failure or success is all speculation.. speculation based on some evidence, but speculation none-the-less. NO ONE, least of all us, know for sure if it will or will not work.

Further, its not like Congress or the government will instantly end.. well, yeah, they might if your ideologues get their way, and leave us rife for takeovers by any group from China to Al Qaeda. BUT.. here is the deal, if the law does have problems, THEN new bills can be submitted and implemented. The battle is not over. Just because the bill passed, the law is being implemented doesn't mean no further change is possible. BUT, even if it did.. the MAJORITY of people have already spoken. I know you choose not to believe that, because you claim any poll that disagrees with your view is somehow "biased", but that IS the truth... go out and verify it, but CHECK the sources.

The first round of the Obamacare fight was fought, and YOUR SIDE LOST! Tough break, but that is how a real government works. You can believe as strongly as you like that you "know best", that you "know" how this will play out, but guess what? So does everyone who supports the act. More importantly, MOST people understand that, like Obamacare or not, it is here. The people really DID decide in its favor. You don't have to like it, but you and the congresspeople DO need to go forward with running the country as it is.

F*** YOU TOO!!!! Since that's the what you think the role of the government is: to f*** over people.

You know what...

you just proved my point. You could care less about anyone else's ideas, anyone else's point OR the success of America. To you, its all about Nightstrike's beliefs and ideas and no one else can possibly know anything you don't.

The sad part is that there ARE millions out there who think just like you.. on all sides of every question. Sadly, it is all too easy to spend loads of time today researching and collecting "data" and opinions

And that is the ultimate, real point.. its not whether the Affordable Care Act is or is not a good piece of legislation or not. Its not about whether it will or will not do what supporters claim. Right now, its about running our government so people can live their lives and make do. Its about accepting that not every decision in a democracy goes the way you want... and being adult enough to recognize that no matter what, in the long run, it is that process that matters more than any particular position or individual ideal.

And the process allows for every Congress to approve funding without being bound to the what previous Congresses passed. But I guess you don't like that process since it's being used against your using the government to control people's lives.

SHAME on you, SHAME on anyone party and supporting of this destruction of America..a nd don't you DARE try to pass the blame on people who just happen to disagree with you on a few political points.

And yet you support the Democratic Party that is looking to control every single thing individuals are allowed to do? How is that not destroying America?

Let's see.... its called representative DEMOCRACY , not "my way or its over", definitely not "Utopia"

I did not vote for McCain, but I have always respected him as a decent man and politician. He said it best. " I was opposed to this legislation, I did not like it, I STILL do not like it, but the people have spoken. We LOST..and now it is our duty to go forward with running the country the way the people demand. We can fight for changes later, but now is not the time."

What McCain fails to realize is that the people spoke again in both 2010 and 2012, otherwise Republicans wouldn't have the House and real conservatives wouldn't keep growing in numbers. Of course, McCain doesn't know what real conservatism means, so it's not surprising why he thinks the government should continually grow and never be abated, no matter what the program is. He's a progressive, not a conservative.

What you want is not called conservatism, its called fascism.

[isaiah40]

Player, I am going to say it again and again and again, the Healthcare that Obama signed originated in the Senate not the House of Representatives. Article 1, Section 7 states that "All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills." So since the SCOTUS ruled that Obamacare is a "TAX" then it is unconstitutional. Do your research and you will find this out for yourself!!!

[PLAYER57832]

There will always be flaws with an implementation this huge. No matter if you have a squad of the best project managers ever there will be issues. My company had an IT system replacement that took 2 years. Three years wasn't a lot of time at all to tackle something this large.

I have yet to hear anyone say there are no downsides or problems with initiating and implementing this Affordable Care Act. It is a huge undertaking and one of the first surprises was that opponents to the concept are willing to spend absurd amounts of money to block it. They are not generating constructive criticism or presenting alternative proposals to improve a healthcare system that has needed overhauled for decades.

This is precisely why there should never be programs this large. The federal government was never designed to institute massive domestic programs, which is why they're so bad at it. It was designed to be a liaison to other countries, operate national defense, and mediate disputes between the states. It was never meant to rule our lives through bloated national programs.

And yes, there have been PLENTY of alternative proposals out there. Just because the progressives don't like them doesn't mean they don't exist.

Name a private system that has WORKED, on such a large scale in all of history... then you can begin to ask if it "was never meant".

[PLAYER57832]

Player, I am going to say it again and again and again, the Healthcare that Obama signed originated in the Senate not the House of Representatives. Article 1, Section 7 states that "All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills." So since the SCOTUS ruled that Obamacare is a "TAX" then it is unconstitutional. Do your research and you will find this out for yourself!!!

The point I was arguing was not whether Obamacare is good, bad, legal or illegal, it is that its congress's fundamental job to keep the government working, not to shut it down as a means of "debating". Want to change Obamacare? Fine, fight to change it.. but don't stoop to closing the government to get your way.

Also, this supposed closure had nothing to do with shutting Obamacare, because it was SELF-FUNDED. Pretty ironic, that.. the one part of government that IS still working just fine is the one these folks want to end.

[Phatscotty]

The House of Representatives has passed budget after budget after budget, year after year after year.

The Senate passed one budget, after 4 years of not passing any budget. Not even when the Democrats has a super majority in 2009 and 2010.

Obama has NEVER passed a budget, he only proposed a budget once, and it could not even get a single vote from a single Democrat in the Senate. It was voted down 0-100.

Crystal clear who and what the problem is, if you know the facts and not just the cable news propaganda.

[Night Strike]

There will always be flaws with an implementation this huge. No matter if you have a squad of the best project managers ever there will be issues. My company had an IT system replacement that took 2 years. Three years wasn't a lot of time at all to tackle something this large.

I have yet to hear anyone say there are no downsides or problems with initiating and implementing this Affordable Care Act. It is a huge undertaking and one of the first surprises was that opponents to the concept are willing to spend absurd amounts of money to block it. They are not generating constructive criticism or presenting alternative proposals to improve a healthcare system that has needed overhauled for decades.

This is precisely why there should never be programs this large. The federal government was never designed to institute massive domestic programs, which is why they're so bad at it. It was designed to be a liaison to other countries, operate national defense, and mediate disputes between the states. It was never meant to rule our lives through bloated national programs.

And yes, there have been PLENTY of alternative proposals out there. Just because the progressives don't like them doesn't mean they don't exist.

Name a private system that has WORKED, on such a large scale in all of history... then you can begin to ask if it "was never meant".

Private systems don't have to work on such a large scale because there will always be competition between different companies, causing each company to take care of a smaller portion of the large scale. However, the federal government is the most powerful monopoly ever created, which is why their "services" do such a poor job. Competition creates the best system possible, not government dictations.

[Metsfanmax]

Player, I am going to say it again and again and again, the Healthcare that Obama signed originated in the Senate not the House of Representatives. Article 1, Section 7 states that "All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills." So since the SCOTUS ruled that Obamacare is a "TAX" then it is unconstitutional. Do your research and you will find this out for yourself!!!

You can say it until you're blue in the face, but unless the Supreme Court decides that they made a law unconstitutional by ruling it constitutional, no one cares. The Senate amended a House Resolution and added the ACA to it, which is likely enough to allow it to survive since the Origination Clause is pretty much irrelevant in 2013.