Israel Plans to Restore Death Penalty for Everyone but Jews

[saxitoxin]

Israel is committed to stopping the rocket fire against it's people and destroying the tunnel network which they've discovered extends well into Israel, giving Hamas militants access to neighborhoods, schools, and all other elements of Israeli society. *rest of hilariously Orwellian press release clipped*

As usual, GabonX is trying to throw up a ton of chaff because he can't argue with reality. He declares widely reported numbers are inaccurate, without providing any kind of respectable source of rebuttal. He seeks to obfuscate fairly simple figures that reflect the horror of the Israeli offensive by pounding us with walls of text and - failing that - screaming "Anti-Semitism!" and alleging wild conspiracy theories until everyone gets tired and stops reading. The sources I quoted reflect the numbers provided.

I quoted numbers from the sources you posted and they didn't reflect the numbers you provided. That was the point...

Civilian Fatalities as Percent of Total Fatalities Inflicted by Israeli Forces on Palestine: 92%
655 Palestinians killed; 55 al-Qassam soldiers, 600 civilians

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.606735
http://www.wsmv.com/story/26095662/un-s ... aza-deaths[/list]

Israel has not offered its own count, but Lt. Col. Peter Lerner, a military spokesman, said Wednesday that 210 Gaza militants were killed since the ground operation began.
http://www.wsmv.com/story/26095662/un-s ... aza-deaths

This just shows what a fucking buffoon you are ... both the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades and the remnants of the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades have been deployed to Syria fighting the Syrian government. There is no love lost between Syria and Hamas and Fatah. This is one of the principal reasons, in fact, Hezbollah has not offered any concrete support to Qassam's self-defense operations. But hey, they all Ay-rabs! An Ay-rab is an Ay-rab, huh, Gabby? Them Ay-rabs must all be secretly meeting on their magic carpets, right?

You're such a fucking racist pig.

Hezbollah already fired off a couple rockets at Israel in the beginning of the conflict. While the well known Iran-Hamas-Hezzbolah-Syria alliance has been strained by Hamas support for Sunni groups in Syria, Iran still funds and aids Hamas, Hezbollah and Syria.

I'm not coming up with this stuff myself, there are a lot of recent articles on the subject...

Hezbollah, Hamas repair military ties during breakup
Despite the political differences that have emerged between Hezbollah and Hamas over their positions on the Syrian revolution in the last two years — which led to a break of ties between them and an exchange of political accusations — the military cooperation between the two groups has not ceased, due to it being institutionalized. The credit here goes to former Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades leader Ahmed al-Jabari, who was killed by Israel during the 2012 war in the Gaza Strip. Jabari hailed from the Shajaiya quarter in Gaza, which has seen the most violent fighting in the recent conflict. The coverage of the current war in Gaza by Hezbollah-affiliated satellite channel Al-Manar has prominently displayed Jabari’s picture on the screen — hereby showing that Hezbollah is present in Hamas’ current struggle, which has grabbed the attention of the Arab street. Sources who spoke to Al-Monitor on condition of anonymity emphasize that Hamas and Hezbollah have maintained their military cooperation despite the break in their political relations.

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/origina ... ties.html##ixzz38RhDexTx

Actually, no, racist GabonX. You dishonestly selected the set of numbers offered by the IDF, ignoring all others. That was my fault for providing a source that would allow you to spread your rabid hate.

So I've updated it with the emergency report from the UN Office of Humanitarian Affairs (casualty totals are different as this is a more recent accounting).

Palestinian deaths by Israel: at least 74% civilians

697 (at least 518 civilians)

Israel deaths by Palestine: 5% civilians

37 (2 civilians)

As the numbers show, Palestinians are avoiding hitting civilians, Israelis are just hitting everything that moves, which squares with the previously cited Channel4 documentary on the 2008 war that showed Israel's #1 objective was to organize a holocaust - which you refused to intelligently address, limiting your reply to invectives, screaming, and howls of "Anti-Semitism!"

I don't have time to address the fundamental and serious flaws in the rest of your wild conspiracy theories at this time.

[saxitoxin]

Apologists think it's easier to believe in this fantasy of cartoon-like Palestinian villains doing all sorts of dastardly things and not legitimately trying to give reasonable civil defense directions ... because Ay-rabs naturally have less respect for human life than normal, decent, white people.

Four days ago Saxi said the UN shelters were not safe, which justified the Palestinian advise not to go to the so-called "shelters" (extermination chambers) the Israelis were asking everyone to congregate at - "Oh no Saxi, you're so wrong! Palestinians should all gather together in one place like Israel says!"

Are those the UN shelters that Israel has refused to provide any guarantee they won't also bomb or are they different ones? Are those the UN shelters that are in above ground, crumbling school houses or are they the super-secret UN shelters in underground, blast-proof bunkers?

If Hamas really suspects that Israel is likely to bomb the UN shelters that they just told the Palestinians to evacuate to, then that would be something. But I doubt that's at all part of their thought process.

Today ...

In the last 24 hours, six more UNRWA schools have been damaged by Israeli shelling.

http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/ocha_o ... 14.pdf.pdf

Here you go, Mets - you can blow this up to poster size. You own it.

[Metsfanmax]

Apparently saxi is still not capable of reading.

[saxitoxin]

Apparently saxi is still not capable of reading.

I can read just fine. You said the Palestinians were trying to use human shields by warning their citizens not to assemble in the Israeli death chambers. I said they were not; the death chambers would be bombed. You chortled and laughed and dismissed that notion. Israel is not all that different from Canada or Denmark, the rule of law applies, you reasoned. It is a legitimate, democratic state with a professional army and police, not some marauding band of thugs - it will never happen!

But the death chambers ended up being bombed, just as I said they would.

And yet you still refuse to rethink your erroneous view of Israel, nor accept that Palestinians are humans with an equal regard for life as you; you continue to subscribe to them as a cartoonish sub-human who concocts all sorts of conspiracies to put their people in the line of fire for the 5 o'clock news. You're worse than GabonX; GabonX at least knows he is a racist. You actually have deluded yourself into thinking otherwise.

[Metsfanmax]

Apparently saxi is still not capable of reading.

I can read just fine.

And yet you managed to miss the comment, not more than two pages ago, where I said

I concede to being incorrect on the UN shelter issue.

[saxitoxin]

Apparently saxi is still not capable of reading.

I can read just fine.

And yet you managed to miss the comment, not more than two pages ago, where I said

I concede to being incorrect on the UN shelter issue.

I saw it. "On the shelter issue" means you still are approaching the larger question by placing burden of proof on the Ay-rab apes. You're like a holocaust denier who, on being presented with irrefutable proof of Auschwitz, insists it was an isolated incident.

[Metsfanmax]

Apparently saxi is still not capable of reading.

I can read just fine.

And yet you managed to miss the comment, not more than two pages ago, where I said

I concede to being incorrect on the UN shelter issue.

I saw it. "On the shelter issue" means you still are approaching the larger question by placing burden of proof on the Ay-rab apes. You're like a holocaust denier who, on being presented with irrefutable proof of Auschwitz, insists it was an isolated incident.

My point is more that there are two possible narratives we could construct. One is that the Israelis actively hate the Palestinians, and want to destroy them all. The other is that the Israelis simply don't value Palestinian lives compared to their right to self-defense, and see the loss of any number of Palestinian civilians as an acceptable cost to destroying Hamas. My take is that it is dominantly the latter, though the former ethos is probably in play among certain individuals as well.

[a6mzero]

The IDF just needs to go ahead and drive Hamas into the sea. I doubt they presently have any rockets which can reach Israel from Cyprus.

[saxitoxin]

Apparently saxi is still not capable of reading.

I can read just fine.

And yet you managed to miss the comment, not more than two pages ago, where I said

I concede to being incorrect on the UN shelter issue.

I saw it. "On the shelter issue" means you still are approaching the larger question by placing burden of proof on the Ay-rab apes. You're like a holocaust denier who, on being presented with irrefutable proof of Auschwitz, insists it was an isolated incident.

My point is more that there are two possible narratives we could construct. One is that the Israelis actively hate the Palestinians, and want to destroy them all. The other is that the Israelis simply don't value Palestinian lives compared to their right to self-defense, and see the loss of any number of Palestinian civilians as an acceptable cost to destroying Hamas. My take is that it is dominantly the latter, though the former ethos is probably in play among certain individuals as well.

Right. You reject that a planned, calculated extermination is occurring, chalking this all up to overenthusiastic or careless junior officers; isolated incidents. This is the exact definition of a Holocaust Denier.

- The UN votes to investigate Israel. Hours later Israel shells 6 UN shelters.
- The Resistance stages a successful ambush on an invading IDF squad at Beit Hanoun. Thirty minutes later the IDF begins shelling a Red Cross hospital in Beit Hanoun.
- Channel4 reports that, in 2008, Israeli soldiers were given orders to shoot anything they saw and that their response was to be "disproportionate" and designed to "cleanse" the Gaza Strip.

According to Mets, these are all just OOPSIE! moments, not part of a bloody pogrom. "NOTHING TO SEE HERE!"

[saxitoxin]

Only people in two nations widely support Israel: Israel and the USA. A new Gallup poll shows that, even in the USA, support for Israel is limited to elderly, white, male Republicans. This means that, as time passes, Israel's welfare checks from Washington - the only thing keeping the dead-beat country financially afloat - are in greater and greater danger of getting cut off.




As the Council on American Islamic Relations noted on FB, this suggests "Israel's carte blanche days are numbered..."

[Metsfanmax]

Right. You reject that a planned, calculated extermination is occurring, chalking this all up to overenthusiastic or careless junior officers; isolated incidents.

No. I just do not agree with you on who is being exterminated. I don't think the weight of the evidence shows me that it is a blanket extermination of all the Palestinians. It seems to be much more sophisticated and targeted than that.

[universalchiro]

The IDF just needs to go ahead and drive Hamas into the sea. I doubt they presently have any rockets which can reach Israel from Cyprus.

I'm sad children are hurt and dying from this, however, if Hamas is launching rockets at me at my households, I will stop them with deadly force on that launch site. And when that launch site is from their home, don't blame me when your children are adversely effected by your initial attacks. Come out to an open field and let's settle this, stop launching rockets in your neighborhood.

In addition, you claim I'm stiffling your GDP with blockade, its because you promise to wipe me off the face of earth, and when I did lift blockade for you to get supplies to build infrastructure, you use the mortar and building construction material to not build buildings but to tunnel to attack me. Of course I'm going to fight back.
And now your stupid rockets has scared international travel , well I'm going to fight you harder now somy airport is safe.
Don't be swayed by the numbers, if bad guy punches first, but then I punch him 10 times I'm still defending myself for though he isn't hitting me, he is still swinging. Hamas is still launching rockets, but they are getting their butt kicked.

Biblically, if this is end time stuff, the entire world turns against Israel, but she still will not lose

[saxitoxin]

Biblically, if this is end time stuff, the entire world turns against Israel, but she still will not lose

While I disagree, it appears Mets, Zero, and GabonX are definitely on the same page as you and the thread certainly seems to be split down the middle.

[muy_thaiguy]

Poll has no "GFY" option. Poll is hereby invalid.

[PLAYER57832]

My point is more that there are two possible narratives we could construct. One is that the Israelis actively hate the Palestinians, and want to destroy them all. The other is that the Israelis simply don't value Palestinian lives compared to their right to self-defense, and see the loss of any number of Palestinian civilians as an acceptable cost to destroying Hamas. My take is that it is dominantly the latter, though the former ethos is probably in play among certain individuals as well.

I would argue that this is nominally true for individuals. However, as a society, Israel has had the destruction of Palestine as a fact. One of their biggest and most consistent arguments, for example, is that there is no such thing as a Palestinian or unique Palestinian culture.. they are all "just Arabs"

Israel occupied all of Palestine and treated the entire population like prisoners for decades before the rounds of violence, the Intefada began It began as teenagers throwing rocks at soldiers.

Why would teenagers throw rocks? Because Israel treated Palestiniens as if they were less than human, not deseving of anything but living in an armed incampment.

SO... yes, while individual Israelis may look at individual Palestiniens and say "this is tragic" or "this is tragic, but a horrible artifact of a war we did not create", as society they have been clear from the start that the only "acceptable" Palestinian is one who is absent.

The correct question is not what would any nation do if attacked as Israel is being attacked, but how would any nation, any society react if they were treated as Israel treated and now treats the Palestinians.

That has ALWAY been the question, and the fact that so many in Palestine feels so backed into a corner that they feel no option but to fight, knowing they well might die.. that the whole society is likely seeing its own end, that the conflict has reached horrific levels does not change the fundamental base question.

[GabonX]

My point is more that there are two possible narratives we could construct. One is that the Israelis actively hate the Palestinians, and want to destroy them all. The other is that the Israelis simply don't value Palestinian lives compared to their right to self-defense, and see the loss of any number of Palestinian civilians as an acceptable cost to destroying Hamas. My take is that it is dominantly the latter, though the former ethos is probably in play among certain individuals as well.

I would argue that this is nominally true for individuals. However, as a society, Israel has had the destruction of Palestine as a fact. One of their biggest and most consistent arguments, for example, is that there is no such thing as a Palestinian or unique Palestinian culture.. they are all "just Arabs"

Israel occupied all of Palestine and treated the entire population like prisoners for decades before the rounds of violence, the Intefada began It began as teenagers throwing rocks at soldiers.

Why would teenagers throw rocks? Because Israel treated Palestiniens as if they were less than human, not deseving of anything but living in an armed incampment.

SO... yes, while individual Israelis may look at individual Palestiniens and say "this is tragic" or "this is tragic, but a horrible artifact of a war we did not create", as society they have been clear from the start that the only "acceptable" Palestinian is one who is absent.

The correct question is not what would any nation do if attacked as Israel is being attacked, but how would any nation, any society react if they were treated as Israel treated and now treats the Palestinians.

That has ALWAY been the question, and the fact that so many in Palestine feels so backed into a corner that they feel no option but to fight, knowing they well might die.. that the whole society is likely seeing its own end, that the conflict has reached horrific levels does not change the fundamental base question.

It's Palestine that rejected the UN partition plan Player, so no your question isn't fair or accurate.

When the Judea and Samaria were under Jordanian rule the Palestinians had no problem because they shared a culture. The Palestinians themselves don't say that they are unique among the Arabs but rather refer to the Jordanians, Egyptians, etc. as their brothers... This is just you that's making a big deal of this, not the Israelis.

You have this narrative that Israel has been a consistent brutal oppressor, but this flies in the face of facts. For one, when Israel began administration of Judea and Samaria after the 67 war the GDP rose and the infant death rate plummeted among Palestinians. The notion that Israel has been a consistent occupier without making efforts to give the Palestinians independence is false too, as evidenced by the Oslo Accords and the fact that Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza in 2005.

The Israelis showered Gaza with aid, and refurbished and transferred an extensive multi million dollar greenhouse system as well as other infrastructure to the Palestinians in Gaza which they could have used to feed their people. From 2005 to 2007 there was no blockade of Gaza, no sanctions, etc., and the Palestinian response was to burn the greenhouses and other infrastructure provided to them in protest, launch rockets and mortars into Israel, send suicide bombers, and elect Hamas who ran on a platform of aggression towards Israel.

You guys that have this view that Israel hasn't made efforts to make right with the Palestinians are painfully misinformed. I can't really blame you when people like Saxitoxin who display such biased and one sided views, full of inaccuracies and inconsistencies, are so common but that doesn't excuse your ignorance if you're going to take a stand.

[saxitoxin]

LMAO, Joan Rivers goes fucking nutso in her "YAY! YAY! ISRAEL!" screed. The part about "we would wipe out New Jersey!" is great but she totally loses it at 0:49 when she declares the whole world - and especially Selena Gomez - is insane ("They started it! You're all insane!!! They started it!") ... defo worth a watch to see her total mental break-down. (The most up-voted comment under the video: "What an uneducated fucking idiot.")



Apparently this is the status on the ground in Israel now. With protests growing larger by the day across the world, the BBC World Service reported this afternoon, that Israelis are becoming utterly hysterical at their isolation. Today's anti-Israel protest in London saw a record 55,000 besiege the Israeli embassy.



With the world outraged at this two-bit tinpot backwards theocracy, Israelis now are left with no place to run ...

Ziffer said the past few years have seen a frenzy of applications for European passports, and young Israelis have famously been moving to Berlin in droves.

"The possibility and fantasy of being open to Europe is always something very dear to Israelis," Ziffer said, "and at that point this fantasy had been hurt — let’s say erased — from the list of possibilities."

http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-07-25/u ... -cut-world

Meanwhile, the noose of international academic and cultural isolation of Israel is pulling tighter as Sinead O'Connor declares she has canceled her engagements and will never perform in Israel again. She recalls her last visit to Isra-hell with revulsion ...

"I actually hated the place so fucking much. I found it one of the most aggressive places I’ve ever been. It’s the only place I’ve ever been that I never wanted to go back to. Consequentially for the last 25 years whenever anything about Israel came on the news, I’d literally turn it off. As far as I was concerned Israel did not exist. So I didn’t keep up at all with anything that was going on there. It’s just a bad word to me, ‘Israel’.”

http://www.hotpress.com/Sinead-OConnor/ ... spDOP.dpuf

[GabonX]

Meanwhile there's still a war in Syria. 150,000 civilian deaths and rising, and not a peep from Saxitoxin or the world community...

[warmonger1981]

Any word about Christians being killed in the Middle East...... didn't think so.

[saxitoxin]

Any word about Christians being killed in the Middle East...... didn't think so.

The Palestinian Independent Center for Human Rights estimates 4% of the 1,000+ Gazans killed in the Israeli genocide have been Christian.

In March, at Bethlehem Bible College, a conference called "Christ at the Checkpoint" was convened in which leading Christian and Muslim leaders called for Christian-Islamic unity against the joint threat those communities face from Israel. Speakers included Geoff Tunnicliffe (general-secretary of the 600-million member World Evangelical Alliance); the event is part of a program to attempt to re-frame Evangelical prophecy to eliminate the necessity for Israel to exist and to offer a new interpretation of the New Testament that assumes Jesus has already been resurrected as a Palestinian suffering under the Israeli military occupation who must be rescued.

The American evangelical vote is crucial to guaranteeing Israel its welfare payments from the U.S. government. Imagine if the Evangelicals flipped their vote in favor of Palestine. What would the Middle East look like if $40 billion in state-of-the-art American technology were in the hands of Palestinians? Different.

[Metsfanmax]

Any word about Christians being killed in the Middle East...... didn't think so.

The Palestinian Independent Center for Human Rights estimates 4% of the 1,000+ Gazans killed in the Israeli genocide have been Christian.

Would you characterize the American policy of drone strikes against suspected terrorists in the Middle East, which seem to have very high civilian casualty rates, as a genocide? If not, what are the substantive differences with the Israeli policy?

[saxitoxin]

Any word about Christians being killed in the Middle East...... didn't think so.

The Palestinian Independent Center for Human Rights estimates 4% of the 1,000+ Gazans killed in the Israeli genocide have been Christian.

Would you characterize the American policy of drone strikes against suspected terrorists in the Middle East, which seem to have very high civilian casualty rates, as a genocide? If not, what are the substantive differences with the Israeli policy?

There's probably not a bright-line you cross at which some acts becomes genocidal; I would think it's a sliding scale. I would characterize American drone strikes against civilians as genocidal acts on the low end of that scale. I do not subscribe to the belief that these are accidental killings, but intentional attacks designed to cow local populations, or attacks done with such little regard for potential non-combatant casualties that they are symbolic of a racist dehumanization of local peoples.