SoN!c wrote:To begin : if he was genuine town he was either absent or not. He would not pretented to be absent like he did.
Like the mouse trap: i knew Traf would bite within the hour (turned out half hour even).
Deg why dont you admit you did not read all posts here? Is that so hard? Its all explained before. But you do not want to consider it.
No, I probably haven't read everything you wrote. It appears that you haven't either because you seem unable to quote where you summarized your case against Traf.
SoN!c wrote:If you do not believe me, why dont you say who you think the Thing is?
Do you really belief it could be me with my searching playstyle? I would not be searching this hard Deg. But BT me tomorrow if you still dont believe it
I don't know who the Thing is, and I don't know how you would play if you were the Thing. I do think that voting for yourself is about the most anti-town thing you can do.
Like in the Tick game where u said u were gonna be away for some days to "See who commented" and guess what ur picks in the Tick were wrong. Cause they are not real traps. Its just you filling your headcannon.
I think this should be resolved one way or the other, otherwise it's never going to end. Either lynch Sonic, and BT Traf tomorrow if he's town, or vice-versa.
degaston wrote:I think this should be resolved one way or the other, otherwise it's never going to end. Either lynch Sonic, and BT Traf tomorrow if he's town, or vice-versa.
I don't like BTing sonic as I think that is a waste of a BT. A cleared Sonic might still not be that helpful to town. I still like the idea of Lynch Traf and Vig sonic if Traf is town.
degaston wrote:I think this should be resolved one way or the other, otherwise it's never going to end. Either lynch Sonic, and BT Traf tomorrow if he's town, or vice-versa.
I don't like BTing sonic as I think that is a waste of a BT. A cleared Sonic might still not be that helpful to town. I still like the idea of Lynch Traf and Vig sonic if Traf is town.
Although, this was strike's idea and if Ragian is right about strike being potentially the Thing, strike would be getting 2 for 1 on town kills. Maybe we should get some kind of agreement that we will BT or Lynch strike tomorrow if both Traf and Sonic are town.
Son!c, there is no quota for you to make every other post in this thread. I think people would be more willing to follow you if you a. Didn't just condescend to people when they ask questions and b. didn't make up bullshit to inflate your cases. Traf didnt disappear for weeks. His longest inactive streak was around 5 days. Your behavior is intrinsically anti-town.
I'm moving my choice of lynch to Son!c. I won't vote yet so that hes not hammered before we work out what we actually want to do for a next step. If he's Town, Traf is next target, either vig or BT if Ragian prefers that. If he's recruited or recruiter, I'd suggest no vig tonight and we can piece together who to go after tomorrow.
I'd we follow the plan to lynch one than vig the other than I am willing to be BTed if both Traf and Son!c flip town. I will note if we don't vig then it's pretty much too late for anything except a cult lynch. So at that point I'd consider anyone targeting me for lynch or vig a waste of a shot.
@Rage: Are you referring to the question if our vig is recruited? I think checking our vig against being the The recruit is top priority after finding The Thing. If his kill shot differs from town consensus on what should be done with the vig kill tonight, then we have to assume they are recruited and anyone who may have figured out our vigs identity should step forward. If we get the recruiter before tomorrow's BT then the next step is to BT him if his identity is known. Currently, I'm of the impression that our vig has not been recruited but I cannot say that with 100% confidence.
Maxleod wrote:Not strike, he's the only one with a functioning brain.
Look i know im posting way too much. But if you get questions and you try to start explaining, you get more questions..
Also i was gonna play this game completely different but then the crazy odds popped up in the beginning of the game where D3 is theoretical. So yes i felt like forcing the search is the only way left as nobody wanted to go with the plan. The 60% plan.
Son!c reads and accusations. I'm not saying that I fully agree with all of it, but at least here he writes down what he thinks about the game (I've added my comments in orange). Here is where you need to look.
SoN!c wrote:Sorry but this Traf-SoN!c allignment is just bullocks.
Go back to D1: Traf was active and was playing real good. Then we (town) wanted to BT Pixar. Traf said "let's BT somebody else" (but he could not say who).
Why would you do that? Because if you have no idea on "who else" Pixar was as good as any..
That was my first big clue Traf could be The Thing. I don't agree. I think Traf mentioned some of the more experienced players as his go-to D1 BT. See spoiler. It's less than a day after his "I don't want to BT Pixar.
If we went along with Traf and BT "somebody else" Traf would have scored lots of good "town credability". Because that way he'd risked being BT'ed himself (and The Thing would not do that for sure right?). No, because it was still only a 10% chance that we would have chosen Traf in the end. And after saying "let's BT somebody else" who would have wanted to BT Traf? It's a great Thing move. Then i rubbed it a bit and Traf got emotional and dissapeared. Stayed on the defensive ever since. You rubbed it AFTER he had already proposed others. The only thing you state to that is that you "didn't like his answer". What can Traf do about that? After stating that he doesn't propose anyone for BT - which he did - you accuse him of proposing others for BT, stating that he doesn't want to get tested himself. (See spoiler below.) That's both contradictory and wrong in my opinion. No townie should want to get tested. It's a waste of a BT.
So how could this end up in a "Traf-SoN!c allignment"?? Me as The Thing pushing to BT my recruit? Traf as The Thing converting me to keep pushing to BT himself? On D2??? The idea is just over the top ridiculous And don't say it's believable because..it's over the top ridiculous.
Anyway if you do even believe it 1% then lynch Traf.
If we don't hit a Thing now (on D2) the game is over. No way we can win on D3 with 3 Things steering the town remnant. No time left to "taste flavours" like you can keep tasting flavours till D6.. This one is the last one (without fixed names to BT / lynch D3).
Traf is the Thing, Votanic is his recruit. He is coming to Traf's defense a bit too much on D2 to be believable. Deg is not recruited.
The others: Strike:If Strike or EW is The Thing then it's bloody well played. Especially if it's Strike. Yes he was a bit too silent overall but i can understand why. I agree with your thoughts on Strike.
EW: Yes, i have doubts on EW but not having doubts would not be a mafia game. But EW was searching, and searching draws attention. In the end too much ZigZag search to be the Thing i believe. I think he has been uncharacteristically contradictory in some places. Especially around my BT, but if he did state that he felt that I had "changed play".
Swang and Charle,: Swang did clearly not read all posts and i believe the Thing does so that clears Swang for me. Charle, second game, first cult game. Man, if he is The Thing he deserves a statue here. Swang, I feel, played D1 haphazardly, voting whoever. Charle did the same. Both have more reasonable and thought out posts D2.
Deg: BT negative and not recruited i believe I would have converted Deg if I were The Thing. Great player and unlikely to be tested. Unless you want to sacrifice a convert for brownie points.
That leaves only Traf. And Votanic. A Thing and a recruit. Both voting for me. Traf is voting because he SAYS he "thinks im possible recruited"?? Knowing we need to hit the recruiter..This is not Traf, this is a Thing Traf. And Votanic, he wants to "taste flavours" like you have infinite chances.. but you do not. The lynch D2 has to be on the recruiter. Preferably with vig, BT D3 and lynch D3 names included. This feels a bit like tunnelling. From what you have written, it doesn't leave out Strike or EW (but you're commending their play). Neither does it leave out Swang nor Charle. Skimming is often a scumtell, and you're saying Swang has indeed skimmed. Charle you would also commend if he were The Thing. I.e. you haven't removed the possibility that these players are The Thing/convert. It feels like you're making your case stronger than it is, and that makes it really hard to follow.
Look at the Traf-Votanic allignment D2. Now that's a allignment.
My 2 cents.
I don't agree with all of Son!c's reads/cases - as you will see from the orange bits - but it is unfair to state that he hasn't put together an effort to convince anyone beyond flooding the thread.
Ragian wrote:Son!c reads and accusations. I'm not saying that I fully agree with all of it, but at least here he writes down what he thinks about the game (I've added my comments in orange). Here is where you need to look.
What bothers me is the tunneling and that the smallest new information is somehow connected to Traf = Thing. But it's also part of Sonic's MO.
I want to briefly get back to the vig thing - also because Traf disagrees here with strike's proposal. If Traf flips town like he claims, we are in 6v2 or 5v3 without a vig kill. I would much rather take a vig shot then rely in town getting a correct BT/lynch in a 5v3 situation. You may argue that 4v3 is just as bad, which is true in terms that it requires all of us to agree on the BT, but if you take a vig shot then you know for sure that a townie is the deciding factor in who to kill. Who to kill is something we shouldn't really talk about, because even if the vig shot is wrong they have a decent chance of hitting a to-be-convert.
@DDS: Would our vig still be able to send in kills if he got recruited?
If he can no longer perform kills then the vig performing any kill would be enough proof that he hasn't been recruited. If he can still do so then I think we as town need to treat the vig as a second lynch. Whether it's deciding to no vig or vig a specific target, we put him in a position that he may have to target someone he wouldn't want to and potentially force him to choose to go against majority and expose himself as a likely recruit or go with town. I get why you don't want to guide the vig EW but from my perspective Traf/Son!c are unlikely to be recruited with as much heat ae they have on them.
Maxleod wrote:Not strike, he's the only one with a functioning brain.
SoN!c wrote:Look i know im posting way too much. But if you get questions and you try to start explaining, you get more questions..
Is this an example of you "explaining"?
SoN!c wrote:
degaston wrote:
SoN!c wrote:Well we agree we disagree.
Its pretty obvious to me but im not gonna say "it's traf" for the 70th time..
Saying "It's Traf" over and over isn't helping. WHY is it Traf?
Slapstick..just lynch me please. So you can see im Fucks, vanilla scientist and im outta this Legal Torture.
This is not about winning a game. This is about ego.
This post was complete garbage. There are many more like it. I asked you many times to summarize your case on Traf, or to point to where you had, and every time you ignored or deflected or gave me crap like this.
Ragian wrote:Son!c reads and accusations. I'm not saying that I fully agree with all of it, but at least here he writes down what he thinks about the game (I've added my comments in orange). Here is where you need to look...
Nice analysis Ragian. I never said that he wasn't putting in an effort, but I thought the points I had seen were pretty weak, and that he had no justification for being 98% sure that Traf is the Thing (a number he had clearly pulled out of his ass), though he could still be correct by random chance. I had wanted Sonic to summarize his case to see what parts he still thought were reasonable. I don't like that he would never put it in writing for himself, while at the same time claiming that he was answering questions.
SoN!c wrote:Look i know im posting way too much. But if you get questions and you try to start explaining, you get more questions..
Is this an example of you "explaining"?
SoN!c wrote:
degaston wrote:
SoN!c wrote:Well we agree we disagree.
Its pretty obvious to me but im not gonna say "it's traf" for the 70th time..
Saying "It's Traf" over and over isn't helping. WHY is it Traf?
Slapstick..just lynch me please. So you can see im Fucks, vanilla scientist and im outta this Legal Torture.
This is not about winning a game. This is about ego.
This post was complete garbage. There are many more like it. I asked you many times to summarize your case on Traf, or to point to where you had, and every time you ignored or deflected or gave me crap like this.
Deg, you were not here 75% of the entire game. Im not gonna explain it for the 71st time because the more i try to begin to explain it i have to go back to the beginning and then it confuses the rest, or when i try to show you why i get the "your flooding the thread" remark.. its utterly pointless. So yes. You get garbage, and yes it was a garbage post. Its me saying i do not care anymore. Because its pointless. Whatever i do. Yes. 100% pointless.
The 60% plan was the only way out. But pointless. Searching. Pointless.
But im not the Thing.
If i say: if im the Thing then surely my recruit would be here helping me? And nobody is helping mee..
But Then you would say: "yes, but your recruit is not helping you just so we would think your not the Thing - so you must be the Thing!"
Like i said: pointless.
But D2 lynch has to be on The Thing or its game over. Pretty sure on that.
SoN!c wrote:Deg, you were not here 75% of the entire game.
It would be very nice if you could try to make a point without lying about it.
SoN!c wrote:Im not gonna explain it for the 71st time because the more i try to begin to explain it i have to go back to the beginning and then it confuses the rest, or when i try to show you why i get the "your flooding the thread" remark.. its utterly pointless.
You wouldn't need to make so many posts if you had answered my question the first time. ... or the second. ... or the third...
Well perception is all. And that is my perception. Its also the reason you got BT D1 if i remember correctly? And D2 you were real silent untill last days.. right?
And again, 0% input from your side on Traf. Not once you wanna go along or even want to consider it. Only focussing on me.
SoN!c wrote:Well perception is all. And that is my perception. Its also the reason you got BT D1 if i remember correctly? And D2 you were real silent untill last days.. right?
And again, 0% input from your side on Traf. Not once you wanna go along or even want to consider it. Only focussing on me.
Yes, I was not very talkative earlier in D2. Partly because I was busy, and partly because I thought that anything I said was more likely to influence people in the opposite direction from what I wanted (because I could have been recruited). I think the setup basically makes finding a Thing not much more than random luck. And when you throw out percentages that have no basis in reality, you undermine your own arguments.
You like to point out stuff like Traf saying "if you are town..." as proof that he's the Thing. But anyone could take something like this:
SoN!c wrote:98% sure Deg is not converted.
and say "How can you be so sure about that unless you are the Thing, and know who you recruited?"
Take another look at my chart and see if that gives you a hint as to why I'm focused on you. How is it possible to not focus on you when you flood the thread with how you are so sure that Traf is the Thing, but your "evidence" is weak at best?
I think it could be Strike because of his planning that rubs me the wrong way. I think it could be EW because he was different from how I saw him in The Tick. I think Swang and Charle were too careless D1 and careful today. Could be them. I think it could be Traf because...well...I see some of Sonic's points. In that case, I think Vot is his recruit. I don't think vot is the thing. It could be Sonic, but I doubt it. If it is, however, he's instantly lynched D1 henceforth. It's not you, it's not me.
First a Mod question. @DDS: Are game roles assigned randomly or did you select people you wanted to see play particular roles?
@ dega, beware of becoming what you hate. I feel like I've just read 20+ dega vs. Sonic posts that play out like a mobius strip. You're not going to change him or fix him, ...and everybody else already knows ...including the ones who have reason not to admit it.
Tonight's Vig (if any): I've already voted for the lynch, do I have an opinion on the Vig? Well sure, Sonic, if he's still around. Beyond that my hunches are iffy, with evidence not overwhelming, so I'll just keep it unstated. Moving slower and not vigging might be wise...
fast-posted by Ragian: Woah, why are you saying dega is town with full certainty?
It seems quite possible, it would not surprise me. I get the 'Sonic is just bad town' argument too... but even so, we might be able to figure this out better with less empty calories.
