The Hobbit Mafia [Town win]

[ZaBeast]

I find Sam's argument a bit WIFOM-y though. He got a fair point, but coming from someone who defended dakky and did not vote... Obviously his point of view is kinda skewed.
At the beginning of D2, Pika pointed out that dakky's posts made it look like he wanted to get lynched. And maybe it was the case. Is dakky the kind of guy to take one for the team? He could have told his scummates that he would get lynched to use his power, while they could get town cred. If that's the case, the people that voted him first would be more likely to be scum.

About the pika issue, I looked back at the end of the day, and I found this

He's clearly dead set on killing Thor, our only confirmed town. I can't...I just can't.

@Pika: I gain absolutely nothing by "defending" both Mitch and Dakky. I'm simply saying we're choosing the easier route because of whom they are, rather than focusing our attention on someone else, whom I imagine are pushing for one or the either just as hard. Also, I believe Dakky has stated he can kill whomever, and if Thor is on that wagon, I can guarantee we lose two town from it. I don't understand how this is flying over your head.

So now you can guarantee that dakky21 is town even though he's "clearly dead set" on killing Thorthoth? Well obviously the fact dakky21 is town based on this compelling evidence is clear for all to see... Is this a Cop claim or are you scum?

Unvote: dakky21
Vote: DirtyDishSoap

Here's the DDS vote from pika. I don't think it means anything, but funny how he ended with "is this a cop claim or are you scum?" The former (first one) being DDS's role in the end. I'm the one who suggested scum might have an investigative power btw, but I said that under the impression that investigative PR could get their results during the night. Now I realize it was dumb as it makes far more sense to get them processed all at once, at the end of the night, since other PR could block/jail/bus said investigative PR. Now, I'm not saying they (scum) can't have one in their team, but that being the reason DDS was targeted is less likely than I thought.

I'll revote dakky21 when we get a replacement or a deadline assuming nothing drastic changes. Currently a town dakky21 (who is telling the truth about their role) can kill anybody even if they're not on the wagon, and a scum dakky21 likely just kills the hammer voter who I still think we should decide on collectively, I don't see unvoting now as the same act of self-preservation as I did previously when the assumption was town dakky21 would only be able to kill from the bandwagon.

Now, He did post after the deadline was posted and didn't vote back, which is probably a sign he's town. At that point, dakky was at L-1. I don't see why he wouldn't have hammered him if he was scum knowing dakky wasn't a bomb.

Now, from those on the dakky lynch, I'd favor BuJ, as he made some posts that rubbed me wrong, in the beginning of D1 (basically suggesting ending the day with a quick bandwagon (among other options)), and the role claiming for the masons. For now, I'll keep my vote on mitch as I'm waiting for some more answers from him. I liked his last post though. I'm getting some scummy vibes from MudPuppy, I already said why and to a lesser extent, sam (my "role fishing tease" is scummy, but dakky's doesn't deserve a vote).

For the town's powers, I was basing myself on pika's list, and according to it, it seems we lost a little bit less than half of our power roles so far, so that's why I thought town hadn't that many. I feel a lot of people have soft-claimed having one for the number that we may have left.

btw, I think Thor might be forum-banned. I've seen him complain on the global chat, but I don't know for how long it will last.

[ZaBeast]

Well, let's get this out of the way. Using my handy dandy google foo, this is our list of Thorin and Company.
Source

List of the Company.

show

Going down the list...

Thorin stays, for obvious reasons.

Kili and Fili were pivotal throughout. They'll be present.

Oin is the uncle of Gimli, survives the entirety of the adventure. I'd say he'd probably be present.

Gloin is the brother of Oin and father of Gimli. Also probably present.

Balin was a close friend of Thorin. He'd be in.

Dwalin is largely unimportant but noted that he does survive throughout the adventure. Probably not present.

Ori, also largely unimprtant and also survives. Probably not present.

Dori is the brother of Ori. Saved (or tried to) Bilbo a couple of times during the adventure. I give it a 50/50 that he's present.

Nori is the brother of Ori and Dori. Largely unimportant as well. More than likely not present.

Nori did little to distinguish himself during the Dwarves's adventures in the wild

Bifur is probably not present.

Bofur had some screen time and was present throughout, though I don't know if he was really a pivotal character to have. 50/50.

Bombur was a fat ass that slept a lot. Nothing really stands out about him either. Probably not present.

Bilbo and Gandalf are obviously present for this.


So for sure, we can assume that we have Gandalf, Bilbo, Thorin, Fili, Kili and Balin.

Hopefully this comes more handy as the day progresses, and we can determine which characters exactly weren't all important to have.

Also, there's the fact that BuJ soft-claimed a role DDS said would not (or had a 50/50 chance) to be present (underlined here), most of which stand at the bottom of pika's list. All the more reason to favor him over the rest of the dakky's BW.

[Pikanchion]

At the beginning of D2, Pika pointed out that dakky's posts made it look like he wanted to get lynched. And maybe it was the case. Is dakky the kind of guy to take one for the team? He could have told his scummates that he would get lynched to use his power, while they could get town cred. If that's the case, the people that voted him first would be more likely to be scum.

I can't actually see dakky21's play as anything but a blunder at this point, without any real indication of third party or town-sided killers around he had no reason to try to use his power, with no apparent non-scum killing role there was no urgency to use the ability as there was no obvious way for dakky21 to be nightkilled (so why not save the ability for when it is more powerful?). If scum knew DirtyDishSoap's role there was no clear advantage in killing them with the Vengeful ability compared to just night killing (as we know DirtyDishSoap had not been the target of the mafia's killer N1 in this scenario, because scum would not have investigated the same player as they tried to kill night one, which also means that they would have no reason to suspect a Doctor would be targetting DirtyDishSoap N2 [because if their kill was blocked by a Doctor N1 it must have been while targetting somebody else], and we can probably assume the scum's killer was not roleblocked) and the time between the end of D2 and the end of N3 is a time when DirtyDishSoap would have no way of communicating to town even if they did find something out N3.

If I were scum I would have certainly discouraged dakky21 from trying to get lynched because it has no clear advantages over trying to get somebody else lynched instead (even "town cred" for lynching scum would have worked considerably better in conjunction with some sort of claim [e.g. I'm a Watcher/Tracker and I saw dakky21 visit <mafia N1 target>] than simply being one of the many to vote for somebody playing obviously scummy). Thinking on this I'm actually somewhat more suspicious of the people who were against the idea of the dakky21 lynch being a sensible policy lynch, as these people had not thought through dakky21's claims and its implications, and likewise the scum team were either unaware of dakky21's plan or are also within this group of those who had not thought about the implications. I'll look through and analyse some more of what happened D2 when I have a few hours free I think...

[Pikanchion]

^Both of those N3s should be N2s.

[MudPuppy]

Perhaps now I've got the blinders on but Vote Hotshot.

It's mostly just a hunch/meta read as he hasn't said enough to incriminate himself... and I'm not really gravitating to any other strong scum reads (have a couple of strong town reads to rule out, though). He's still laying low, which I understand is hypocritical of me because I've been pretty AWOL as far as posting goes... I've been reading along but haven't had a lot to say... still don't but don't want to hold off voting any longer while waiting for a strong case to fall in my lap.

[ZaBeast]

If I were scum I would have certainly discouraged dakky21 from trying to get lynched because it has no clear advantages over trying to get somebody else lynched instead (even "town cred" for lynching scum would have worked considerably better in conjunction with some sort of claim [e.g. I'm a Watcher/Tracker and I saw dakky21 visit <mafia N1 target>] than simply being one of the many to vote for somebody playing obviously scummy).

The claim part wouldn't work with a vengeful scum though. Someone claims an important power role and doesn't get shot by scummy dakky when he dies? The scum in question would just look more fishy to me.

MP, HS warned he might be busy with the (extended) tax deadline in october 15th after he first disappeared in september though, so I'm inclined to believe him. He could still be scum, but I don't think you can really hold his absence against him. Hopefully he'll be able to catch up and post more soon.

[MudPuppy]

MP, HS warned he might be busy with the (extended) tax deadline in october 15th after he first disappeared in september though, so I'm inclined to believe him. He could still be scum, but I don't think you can really hold his absence against him. Hopefully he'll be able to catch up and post more soon.

Yeah, that is true... and I can somewhat relate as this past week has been busy for me as well (perhaps nowhere near as busy as his)... but that doesn't do anything toward making him a town read and we're far enough along in the game where he shouldn't get a free pass for inactivity. I'll keep my vote on him for now but he still has time to try to convince me I should be voting for someone else.

[Ragian]

Rereading D3 without my MM-blinders (however comfy they were). You'll find a lot of backpedaling and ignoring my own posts. Obviously, it's weird that mitch is still suggesting that Thor could be third party, but I don't know what to make of it. BuJ's comment about masons, on the other hand, is weird at best.

I suggest that If there are 2 or more masons still in the game they should come forward. Skoffin's death is a double tragedy because we have no easy way of confirming who the other masons are, so he died a vanilla townie basically.
If only one person comes out with a mason claim they will get lynched by policy because it is basically just a free fake claim. So only come out if you have a back up. (You will be lynched/investigated anyway but it would be 1 investigation for the price of two). I would love to see scum take the bait and for 2 of them to come forward together. (wishful thinking?)

1) We don't want people to come forward as it makes it easier for scum to pick and choose their nightkill, 2) why would there be more than two masons in the game (the Fili-Kili connection makes sense flavour-wise too), and 3) why would we policy lynch whoever comes forward? Surely, that's a confirmed townie when not countered. BuJ has shot up on my naughty list.

ZaBeast has aired similar thoughts.

Pika and mitch don't seem to be on the same team if either of them is scum. ZaBeast and Pika went out of their way to name MM the other mason before MM had a chance to participate. Probably not a scum move (as that could've been settled in the scum chat). Probably more a "look how good I am". If scum hadn't figured it out, however, it's handing them information. Kinda goes against what ZaBeast advocates when asking people not to claim without pressure...

Flores goes for Pika.

BuJ then comes back and mitch-like indicates that people are dumb for flat out believing MM. Then he votes Mudpuppy and quickly fosses Pika and me. If one is scum, Pika and BuJ don't seem to be on the same team.

Baited.
Mudpuppy surviving like a champ still no support for his vite but check out who I caught in my net:
Unvote vote flores.

I disagree on both points. Suggesting SK for pika is kinda weird. Pika could be scummy for suggesting that dakky is townie but he wouldn't have knowing that he is indeed scum. I had a slight suspicion that because he started the bandwagon he was trying to gain credit, but why keep saying that he's likely vengeful townie instead of saying he's scum. Because he didn't know.

??? How have you caught Flores?

Mitch suggests that Pika is scum. He seems to suggest that Pika steered Dakky to kill DDS with his vote. Interesting hypothesis.

Flores's accusations of Pika sound far-fetched.

Town
- Thor
- MM

Seem towny (from most towny to least towny)
- mitch (gut feeling - which has proven reeeeally good so far)
- Pika (too many things indicate town to me)
- Samlen (meta - conservative)

Seem scummy (from most scummy to least scummy)
- BuJ (mason thing, Flores thing, keeps FOS on MM)
- ZaBeast (discrepancy between outing MM and not wanting MM to claim after being outed, wanted information from me due to the MM-scandal)

No clue
- KJ (seems really careful with his words, allegations, and votes)
- HS (hasn't been here a lot - not alignment indicative as he claimed out of town in the game before this too - however, October 15 has passed)
- Flores (I think the Pika allegations are weird, but I don't know...)
- Mudpuppy (I can't seem to get my hands on him...as it were...don't like his vote on HS, though)

Oh well, that was my rant. I'll vote BuJ as he seems most scummy to me. If nothing else, the fight is always fun, and BuJ has first said that I looked town, then said I looked scummy, then back to town. It would be nice with a third flipflop

[BuJaber]

I was throwing suspicion on Pika to bait people into jumping on him. Sadly until this point only Flores did it but that is what I mean by catching him. His conclusions don't sound like something coming from a townie who's paying attention.

The mason thing I explained. I often think that masons do need to claim at some point; this isn't the first game where I suggested it as a town player. Yes the ideal way would be to hint it to us without revealing but when that doesn't work the information can be crucial to avoid a mislynch. Just because I have a different opinion doesn't mean I don't agree with you, ZB, and the rest that information can help scum target power roles. I just think the power we get from knowing masons will be more beneficial in the long run.

For example so many people wanted to lynch MM on day 1, and skoffin went with the subtle approach and that didn't help dissuade people much. It is only after skoffin flipped and nobody counter claimed that people are inclined to believe MM.

As for me suggested 3 masons instead of 2: I mixed them up in my head I knew DDS had mentioned there were 3 dwarves who were brothers, thought it was kili fili and some other, and my mistake was not checking back on his post but I did now and it was dori nori and ori who are a trio not the 'ili's.

Finally I disagree about ZB, to me he's been the most obvious townie. So either he's that good at playing scum or you're wrong to FOS him.

Going with the assumption that there are 4 scum: FLores, MP, and Sam would be remaining. If 5 or more I'm not so sure, possibly HS though from what I know he's generally a quiet player busy or not busy, scum or not so it's kinda hard to figure him out.

My whole reason for being sure that mitch is town is from their back and forth on Day 2. My gut tells me they wouldn't be acting like that as scummates. Also mitch seems to get angry when accused as scum, and fearful when accused as town, and I've been sensing fear.

Vote flores and if he flips town then I will shutup with my theories and vote for whoever you want Rag.

[ZaBeast]

@Rags, I'm not going to take your word for it, though I don't think now's the time for you to claim, if the only info you have is about MM. I don't see how any night ability would prevent masons from talking to each other, like I don't think any night ability prevents scum from talking to each other (and anyways, let's say you have an ability that lets you do that. What makes you think they couldn't have talked before you sent it in?) With the setup it doesn't make much sense to have one non-town mason. And if there is one, that must be skoffin. I mean, his name is in red.

I didn't want you to claim, because I believed your case would end up not holding the water, which is why I said you'd be better off not claiming unless you had other info about somebody else.

Also, I wouldn't say I "went out of [my] way to name MM the other mason". It's just one sentence saying he might be mason after my suspicions about him because I wanted to show both sides of the coin, and not single out on the scummy parts. I should have realized it made it more likely to have a claim from the other mason, either someone else saying "I'm mason, and MM is just scummy" or MM confirming he's mason. On the flip side, it's great to have one more confirmed town. Scum will either have to waste a night killing a vanilla, or let him live as confirmed town.

- Samlen (meta - conservative)

Can you expand on that? And is the meta the fact he's conservative, or two separate arguments?

Can you prod Thor? As I said, I think he might have been forum banned again, but I don't know for how long.

[BuJaber]

On the flip side, it's great to have one more confirmed town. Scum will either have to waste a night killing a vanilla, or let him live as confirmed town.

It's not a flip-side. If he is indeed town, scum might waste a night killing a vanilla. Now they will just leave him be, and target someone else. As for us, someone with an investigative role might be tempted to investigate him just for their piece of mind, which wastes that role for one night.

This is what I was trying to explain (poorly) earlier. When 2 masons are alive they should claim. 1 mason claiming doesn't help. Like I said in my last post, I think when 2 alive masons can confirm each other to be town that helps town in the long run. But 1 mason claiming has all the disadvantages and barely any advantages.

Anyway, I've thought it through, and I think we have no choice but to target someone else. MM and Thor are now untouchable by lynch as far as I'm concerned.

So.. Flores, are people with me, or does someone think they have a better case?
I also think my case on MP for his day 1 activities/voting patterns is also pretty strong.

[FloresDelMal]

I went back and re reading my own posts on pika i noticed that i might be a little paranoid and the more stubborn i get the thinner my logic wears, so for the moment i'll Unvote Pika not because i am convinced of his innocence, but because i find myself unable to build a solid case against his cowardly rodentness, but just as with MM on the lion king my gut feeling alone wasn't enough for build a good case against him, and just as then it makes me mad at my own short comings in case building, but i am tired of pushing for a case going nowhere so ill settle for the next scummier thing in my list.

This was my first post on D3, in which i happen to quote the first and only post of BuJ for D3 at that time, FOS him for fishing, and in an unrelated note i voted for Pika

I suggest that If there are 2 or more masons still in the game they should come forward. Skoffin's death is a double tragedy because we have no easy way of confirming who the other masons are, so he died a vanilla townie basically.
If only one person comes out with a mason claim they will get lynched by policy because it is basically just a free fake claim. So only come out if you have a back up. (You will be lynched/investigated anyway but it would be 1 investigation for the price of two). I would love to see scum take the bait and for 2 of them to come forward together. (wishful thinking?)

I don't know if you're scum of just misguided, but masons are not much more than vanilla townies. Therefore, having them come forward is just going to reduce the pool of players that could have power roles, and making it easier for scum to pick with not much gain for town.

QFT FOS BuJ all this ppl fishing for roles are only trying to make things easier for scum, and it is getting tiring

I'm also considering treating Minister Masket as confirmed town by way of being Fíli at this point, based on each player's interactions with Skoffin, it's ether him or Ragian by my reckoning.

I do agree about skoff"s blatant over protection of MM was ungranted unless she knew he was her fellow mason, so he is clear on my list, but i still dislike how he is playing, seriously MM shape up.

Now about you my dear yellow rodent, as much as i respect your smarts on the game, and often interesting posts, your behaviour towards the dakky's BW left a very bitter taste in my mouth, i know you are smart, and i think you are cunning enough for distance yourself from your fellow scum dakky by leading the BW and unvoting afterwards, i think as scum you are really really dangerous, and i cant see your cowardly and self preservatory ways as anything but anti town, plus when i called LAL on dakky you were against this policy, after leading a BW and not putting your vote were your mouth is makes me understand why you could be against a case built around LAL, because your misdirection is just as fishy Vote Pika

I am not saying that mitch or puppy arent misguided or even scummy, but we have a bigger fish to fry

Yup, I am Fili, and the other Mason to Skoff's Kili. Feels abit strange to claim with absolutely no pressure, but honestly there's no benefit to keeping it hidden, only deficits. Plus Skoff's rather zealous defence of me Day 1 kinda gave the game away to anyone looking closely enough.

mmmh yeah, not surprises there

then BuJ in his third post of the day said this:

FOS Pika and Ragian.

Knowing that dakky is scum, DDS and skoffin are both town. Pika and Ragian's behavior, especially day 2 needs to be looked at more closely. Ragian has seemed more interested in hearing other people's ideas than sticking to his own cases (changing votes a few times ending with no vote).

Pika if I'm not mistaken was the first to believe dakky's claim and began advocating for his lynch while saying he's town. His ideas all made sense but he did help force us all to focus on dakky. That became the central theme of D2.

Just trying to look at everything from a different perspective. I was enjoying not suspecting Ragian for a change. But can't help it when mods give him a scum role most of the time

Then BuJ made this as his fourth post of the day, and it was so silly, so out there bending the laws of physics and worm hole theory that i chose to not adress it:

Baited.
Mudpuppy surviving like a champ still no support for his vite but check out who I caught in my net:
Unvote vote flores.

I disagree on both points. Suggesting SK for pika is kinda weird. Pika could be scummy for suggesting that dakky is townie but he wouldn't have knowing that he is indeed scum. I had a slight suspicion that because he started the bandwagon he was trying to gain credit, but why keep saying that he's likely vengeful townie instead of saying he's scum. Because he didn't know.

The second point perhaps yes, but really, why would he claim Kili so early? Also you being 99% sure has an easier explanation: you know for sure he's not on your scum team.

i suppose that is what he means by saying that he caught me, apparently, i made some time travelling, i went forward in the future, read his comment, made my mind that pika was scummy, went back to the past and then i voted for pika before BuJ had ever made his case bravo BuJ you really caught me there, now ill grab my time travelling machine and go warn skoff to not get too chummy with MM because she is basically outing him as his mason partner, then ill swing by McDo and get me some Szechuan sauce for dinner

Rereading D3 without my MM-blinders (however comfy they were). You'll find a lot of backpedaling and ignoring my own posts. Obviously, it's weird that mitch is still suggesting that Thor could be third party, but I don't know what to make of it. BuJ's comment about masons, on the other hand, is weird at best.

I suggest that If there are 2 or more masons still in the game they should come forward. Skoffin's death is a double tragedy because we have no easy way of confirming who the other masons are, so he died a vanilla townie basically.
If only one person comes out with a mason claim they will get lynched by policy because it is basically just a free fake claim. So only come out if you have a back up. (You will be lynched/investigated anyway but it would be 1 investigation for the price of two). I would love to see scum take the bait and for 2 of them to come forward together. (wishful thinking?)

1) We don't want people to come forward as it makes it easier for scum to pick and choose their nightkill, 2) why would there be more than two masons in the game (the Fili-Kili connection makes sense flavour-wise too), and 3) why would we policy lynch whoever comes forward? Surely, that's a confirmed townie when not countered. BuJ has shot up on my naughty list.

ZaBeast has aired similar thoughts.

Pika and mitch don't seem to be on the same team if either of them is scum. ZaBeast and Pika went out of their way to name MM the other mason before MM had a chance to participate. Probably not a scum move (as that could've been settled in the scum chat). Probably more a "look how good I am". If scum hadn't figured it out, however, it's handing them information. Kinda goes against what ZaBeast advocates when asking people not to claim without pressure...

Flores goes for Pika.

BuJ then comes back and mitch-like indicates that people are dumb for flat out believing MM. Then he votes Mudpuppy and quickly fosses Pika and me. If one is scum, Pika and BuJ don't seem to be on the same team.

Baited.
Mudpuppy surviving like a champ still no support for his vite but check out who I caught in my net:
Unvote vote flores.

I disagree on both points. Suggesting SK for pika is kinda weird. Pika could be scummy for suggesting that dakky is townie but he wouldn't have knowing that he is indeed scum. I had a slight suspicion that because he started the bandwagon he was trying to gain credit, but why keep saying that he's likely vengeful townie instead of saying he's scum. Because he didn't know.

??? How have you caught Flores?

Mitch suggests that Pika is scum. He seems to suggest that Pika steered Dakky to kill DDS with his vote. Interesting hypothesis.

Flores's accusations of Pika sound far-fetched.

Town
- Thor
- MM

Seem towny (from most towny to least towny)
- mitch (gut feeling - which has proven reeeeally good so far)
- Pika (too many things indicate town to me)
- Samlen (meta - conservative)

Seem scummy (from most scummy to least scummy)
- BuJ (mason thing, Flores thing, keeps FOS on MM)
- ZaBeast (discrepancy between outing MM and not wanting MM to claim after being outed, wanted information from me due to the MM-scandal)

No clue
- KJ (seems really careful with his words, allegations, and votes)
- HS (hasn't been here a lot - not alignment indicative as he claimed out of town in the game before this too - however, October 15 has passed)
- Flores (I think the Pika allegations are weird, but I don't know...)
- Mudpuppy (I can't seem to get my hands on him...as it were...don't like his vote on HS, though)

Oh well, that was my rant. I'll vote BuJ as he seems most scummy to me. If nothing else, the fight is always fun, and BuJ has first said that I looked town, then said I looked scummy, then back to town. It would be nice with a third flipflop

QFT ATM i just don't see anyone giving more scum tells, and since i cant ride on guts alone ill just go ahead and Vote BuJ i really really dislike liars.

[Ragian]

@zabeast, in my experience, Samlen is conservative in his voting and a boring sex partner. One of them is relevant here

@BuJ, are you trying to befriend me after I voted for you? What are you playing at?

@Flores, are you saying that you voted for Pika before BuJ laid out his bait? Or am I not understanding you correctly?

[FloresDelMal]

@Flores, are you saying that you voted for Pika before BuJ laid out his bait? Or am I not understanding you correctly?

yep, and i proved it, i know you guys do not like LAL as a policy, and i can respect that, but it has always served me well, it did with dakky, and it might do the trick once again ^^

[Thorthoth]

Very complex,
A lot of people are doing weird things that could be perceived as scummy, but too many for them all to be scum... so we must be selective.

Some things that are questionable (But are they scummy?):
• Pika leading dakky lynch, then dropping it to vote for DDS, who turned out to be Thorin. Maybe he just outfoxed himself?
• HotShot not posting. Not that weird. games like this have a lot of dead time, maintaining play-motivation can be a challenge.
• Mudpuppy rarely posting and then showing up just to vote for HotShot over everybody else (downright peculiar!)
• Bujaber sort of role fishing, but it was about the masons who were 'in the news' then so it wasn't that weird. Didn't get the 'caught Flores' thing...
• mitch acting goofy... Crazy like a (dumb) fox?

There are some other oddities, hardly anybody is immune but those are a few that stand out.

Today (Day 3), I advise town to go after low-hanging fruit, therefore: Attention: Vote mitch

Now let's look at the votes

My unofficial vote count.
BuJaber (2)<--------- Flores, Ragian
Flores (1)<------ BuJaber
Ragian (1)<------ Minister
mitch (4)<------- ZaBeast, pika, KamikazeJawa, Thorthoth
Hotshot53 (1)<-- MudPuppy.
Not voting (3)<-- madmitch, Samlen, Hotshot53
(7 needed to lynch)

Flores and Raglen seem to be townish (hmm?)... but is BuJamer as scummy as they say? Maybe so... I'm thinking about it.
Minister voting for ragian... Is this going to stick? Does Minister know something?
MudPuppy needs to explain this vote.
By Day 3, not voting is not good unless you have a good reason. mitch, Sam and HS need to chime in with a vote or a really good explanation.

I'm feeling good about the mitch vote and I think it's a better option today than BuJamer. I encourage Flores and ragian to join in, unless they are truly opposed, and then I want further explanation of why.

[HotShot53]

I'm sorry for being absent this past week... this was my worst tax season ever. Was in the office 29 hours straight from Friday - Saturday, went home for 6 hours of sleep, then was in the office working for 46 hours straight... I never knew that was possible until I did it because I had to lol. Just woke up from getting an actual 8 hours of sleep, but have to go in to work now to clean up some things still. Next summer I need to procrastinate a little less and get more done then so the end of tax season isn't this insane.

But in summary, my tax season is now over, so i'll be catching up and participating more from now on

[MudPuppy]

Welcome back, Hotshot... Sounds intense.

I'll Unvote since there's no support for voting Hotshot and he appears to be back. Fair enough to give him time to catch up and give some input.

[Ragian]

@Flores, are you saying that you voted for Pika before BuJ laid out his bait? Or am I not understanding you correctly?

yep, and i proved it, i know you guys do not like LAL as a policy, and i can respect that, but it has always served me well, it did with dakky, and it might do the trick once again ^^

You know I'm voting him, right?

[BuJaber]

If I were scum I would have hammered because doing so would only make me look better to town at no risk to myself, as town hammering looked like suicide to me so I didn't.

and what if you were a lonely SK, you definitely can pull looking townier than town, and put it as you want but throwing a stone and then hiding your hand doesn't scream town, its really hypocrite of you, honestly i don't see any bigger threat to town than a cunning you ATM, and i don't really get why no one else sees it.

Then MM comes out without any pressure and claims. And everyone just believes him. He could be telling the truth, we might even be 80% confident he's town but there's not enough there to be sure. Skoffin defending him on day 1 of all days is not a huge indication.

Oh but it is, skoff is a smart cookie, and the only reason she could stick her neck so far for a lazy kid like MM is because she was certain about his alignment, masons do know who they are, sometimes they can even communicate by day, so i could say that is not 80% but 99% confident he's town.

I was referring to this post, not the post in which you voted. Pika explained himself adequately after your vote on him but you still tried to make a case.

But I apologize for my messy train of thought that has now confused everyone in the process including myself. I'd policy lynch myself after that. So good luck in D4.

[BuJaber]

Don't vote for mitch Thor. MudPuppy yes but I feel very strongly about my perception of mitch this game and I don't want more mislynches.


I was gonna use Flores voting me as OMGUS reason to vote him but his case seems genuine from his perspective now and he took the time to ignore the message he didn't understand the first time then took the time to go back and look at everything clearly. Just seems like something a townie would do instead of scum who knows they got caught.

Unvote Vote Mudpuppy

[madmitch]

Thorth back I so happy ---NOT--- and first thing he does is vote for me, well can't blame him I was on his ass quite a bit,I thought I had some sort of case against Pika but maybe it is not strong enough. I also can't see a case on the other canadates yet. Since I have 4 votes on me all I can say is that my role could be important for town if needed .

[FloresDelMal]

I was referring to this post, not the post in which you voted. Pika explained himself adequately after your vote on him but you still tried to make a case.

But I apologize for my messy train of thought that has now confused everyone in the process including myself. I'd policy lynch myself after that. So good luck in D4.

mmh ok, let's pretend that yours was an honest mistake, but still doesn't that means you were skimming and that's why you thought you had "baited" me? there are a lot of principles that help us players to make our minds about whether someone is high in our scummy list or in our likely town list, as i said one of them is lying, normally, as a general rule, townies do not need to resort to lying, liars are often scum or scummy townies that get themselves mislynched and rightly so, then there is skimming, a well meaning townie can not afford to skim, because is by reading, and sometimes re reading every single one of the posts on the thread that he or she can gain insight, see things from a new perspective, hopefully identify slip ups, scum tells and build cases, it is fundamental for town to actually read, only scum can afford to skim, because they do not need to try to discern who they're enemies are, they are against everyone but their own team, so i don't know what is the "new trend" on this community about skimming, but to me it is, and it will always be a scum tell.

Oh and btw cases are made, and defences exposed, but nothing should be taken to face value, if you are not convinced by a defence you can doubt it and question it, then eventually one of the opposing arguments will be proven weaker than the other, like me and pika, its obvious i lost the debate *shrugs* it happens, you move on, and i moved onto you because atm i don't see anyone more suspicious than you.

You know I'm voting him, right?

Ragian of course i know, i even quoted you, what's your point?

[Ragian]

The stuff I quoted

Also, Flores sounds like a girl.

[FloresDelMal]

oh and BuJ please build your case on puppy, it is not very townie of you to vote someone without giving your reasons at the same time, plus why are you defending mitch so much? what makes you so certain of his innocence that you could be so bold in your attempt to steer the attention away from him and into puppy without even attempting to elaborate your argument?

oops fast posted by rags, do i really sound girly? here i thought i sounded all caustic and gender neutral

[Ragian]

Your name. Flores. Not your wordings. Sorry, poorly phrased.