Cairns Coral Coast [Quenched] - Loaded!

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Cairns Coral Coast [Quenched] - Loaded!

Postby cairnswk on Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:56 am

Cairns Coral Coast - Tropical Colours

V41 Update
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Original Map
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Updated 24Mar07 - Small map now 600w x 526h.

Now - 60 countries in 10 regions.

This map is constructed from the Cairns Coastline in North Queensland Australia, and incorporates the Atherton Tableland and some of the islands that can be visited.

The location of Rivers and Moutains serves to act as natural barriers to limit the only routes from the Tableland region to the coast. The names of the countries are specific to this region.

Any feedback is most welcome. :D :(
Last edited by cairnswk on Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:09 am, edited 79 times in total.
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Postby spinwizard on Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:58 am

It is too bright...did u make it on paint...any way u need 2 dull down the coulors and make the txt black. then we can look at playabilaty
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Postby cairnswk on Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:04 am

Thanks Spinwizard. It was made on Fireworks. Colour can be dulled and text in black. No worries.
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Postby spinwizard on Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:07 am

i use fireworkes too. u may want 2 make the borders a bit more dinamic and make them all black. by dinamic i mean that ther r not straight lines. also there are too many impassable borders/they r too large.
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Postby Teya on Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:20 am

I think its too big, I have to scroll too much.
Im not sure you need so many continents either.

Im not sure this map is a great idea, It is of a very specific area. Recently a "fairfax county" map was in the making and it got shot down because it didnt have the support of anyone but the people that lived there. Maybe if you even tried to do a QLD map?

Anyway, If you get the support for this map to continue, I wish you luck.
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Postby spinwizard on Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:23 am

i agree with teya...u wont get engouth interest
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Postby KEYOGI on Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:40 am

I agree with Teya and spinwizard, there's a total lack of appeal. It's a shame since it seems you've put so much work into it.
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Cairns Coral Coast Replaced with Great Barrier Reef Map

Postby cairnswk on Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:45 am

Please use this link for opinions and voting....
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13702 - GREAT BARRIER REEF

THANKS.
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Postby yeti_c on Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:58 am

Hmmm - The title to me read that it would be a map of the Great Barrier Reef... Which I think could be an awesome map...

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Postby cairnswk on Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:31 pm

Yeti_C....check out this link for the Great Barrier Reef map
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13702
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Postby Qwert on Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:16 pm

Ok i have question, do you work in 3 maps or do you have 3 topic of 1 map, :?
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Postby cairnswk on Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:37 pm

Qwert...these have developed as three separate maps....from one idea.
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Interst growing!!!

Postby cairnswk on Sat Mar 03, 2007 5:22 pm

There appears to be some interest for this map...early voting indicates the Yes preference....i have re-worked the linework and toned down the colours.

Suggestions would be welcome for discussion on the bonuses, and other tweaks.
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Postby Samus on Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:15 pm

You obviously made every region exactly 6 countries on purpose, perhaps you can expand on your reasons for that.

Personally I think the best maps have several different sized regions, especially small and medium regions since they give you several different options for what to go for when playing. Maps like Canada and Hong Kong only have 2 regions worth going for, and quite frankly those maps suck. You need a couple of regions with 4 countries giving 2-3 bonus, and a couple of regions with 8 countries giving 6-8 bonus.

As far as bonuses go, I don't think any region should ever give more in bonus than it has in countries. Maybe it's hard to defend in singles games, but in team games, especially triples, your teammates can help defend you and it becomes VERY imbalanced. Specifically The Beaches region is also on the edge of the map, the team that lucks into this side of the map will have a decided advantage. Any map this big will need to be good for team play first, singles second.

Don't get me wrong, the number of countries is fine. I count 12 regions with 6 countries each rather than 11 as you posted, making 72 instead of 66. The biggest problem I have with this is that the first person who goes gets 4 armies and is virtually assured to take a country, however the person he takes it from now only has 11 and will only get 3 armies. Going first is already enough of an advantage, 66 is the better number so everyone gets 3.

Just don't let these people talk you into making yet ANOTHER map with 48 countries, which is slightly too big for 4 people and slightly too small for 6. We've got way too many maps sized for 5 people already and most games are 4 or 6 players.

As far as the image dimensions, you need to do something about it. Small maps need to be 600 px wide and large maps 800 (it is actually required they do not exceed this), and the width needs to be noticeably larger than the height.

Visually, you should separate the red and green regions because it causes problems for color blind people. You have a lot of greens too, which is more of a problem on the bonus board than on the map. Stick in maybe an orange and a brown so that everything is nice and distinguishable. Also, consider making the blue region a slightly more distinguishable color from the purple region.

And the text in the bonus box needs to be bigger and thicker (to show the colors off better).

Those are the bigger things that I see. I hope the length of this is constructive rather than intimidating. ;)
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Postby cairnswk on Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:02 pm

Samus. I am humbled by your most constructive offers....believe you me. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! :) :)

As this is my first map, making almost each region with 6 territories in each was not planned...it simply happened that way. I understand what you say about small, medium and large regions, and the consequences of 4 against 6 and 5 players. To this end, on your advice I will adjust the regions and also the colours as suggested....66 coming up as the objective. I don't think there is 2 many territories as opposed to ie 48, this, i beleive, can make for good game play.

I'll see what I can also do size-wise...something will happen.

Thank-you, Thank-you once again.
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Cairns Coral Coast - 7Mar Update - Polling/Feedback Needed

Postby cairnswk on Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:35 pm

Map has been severly updated....lines, colours, territories, sizes.

Feedback and polling appreciated. Thanx. :)
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Postby Samus on Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:51 pm

I'll try to come up with more suggestions for the playability tomorrow when I've got more time to analyze it, but I will say it is much improved, definitely.

Visually, I'm pretty sure others are going to give you a lot more suggestions. One thing I will tell you is it's too bright, it's hard to stare at for periods of time thinking about strategy. The colors you selected for the regions are good, just dim it down.
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Postby KEYOGI on Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:54 pm

Can you post your updates as you go? It's a pain to have to go back to the first post to check.
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Postby cairnswk on Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:45 am

Sure Keyogi
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CAIRNS CORAL COAST - DIMMED COLOURS - 7MAR UPDATE

Postby cairnswk on Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:26 am

Dimmed Colours, Samus. Thanks for the advice. :D

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Postby Molacole on Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:40 am

sorry for butchering your map :!:

I messed around with your borders. Do you like it? :?

I figured this might make all the bonuses more worth fighting for. Something about the map just made the beach look way too powerful and if a team had good placement in the northeast they'd pretty much sweep the board while the others faught over hard to hold bonuses.



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Postby Samus on Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:11 pm

Well I've discussed your map in depth with a friend, and these are the changes we would suggest:

The Swamps: This one is actually good, although you might consider moving the Mitchell/Saddle border slightly over to the right to make it clear Saddle does not border Biboorah. Keep the bonus of +3.

The Beaches: Since it only has 2 defense points, we think you should remove one of the islands to make it 7 territories instead of 8 (this will be added back further down to keep it 60 territories total), changing the bonus to +3.

City Estates: Add a connection between Fitzroy and Yarrabah, reduce the bonus to +2 since it only has 5 territories and 2 defense points.

Sugarland: The problem we had with this is that the person who takes Bananaland will be able to take this and go straight north without increasing their defense points. To combat this, we think you should add another island just south of Franklin, connected to Franklin and Eubanangle. Also add a connection between Franklin and Gordonvale, thus removing the bottleneck from the region. Increase the bonus to +5.

Bananaland: Make Palmerston part of Dairy Farmers, which reduces the territories to 5 and the borders to 2, and reduce the bonus to +2.

Fruit Pickers: Connect the mountains to cut off the connection to Dimbulah, reducing the borders to 4. Bonus of +6 is now good.

Agate Hills: Since it now only has 2 defense points, reduce the bonus to +2.

Maize Silos: The region is fine, but with 4 borders it should only be worth +5 bonus.

Dairy Farmers: With Palmerston added it now has 7 territories and 5 borders to 4 different regions, so increase the bonus to +7.

Rainforest: While it technically has 4 defense points, it only has 5 territories and can take Tinaroo to reduce borders to 3, so the bonus should be +4.


The color looks much better, too. Very nice. :)
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CAIRNS CORAL COAST - 08MAR V4 UPDATE

Postby cairnswk on Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:52 am

Thanks very much Samus, for those pointers.
Belolw is the image with adjustments you suggested....are these OK?

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Postby Samus on Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:52 pm

Yes, excellent, the regions and bonuses look very good now. :)

I presume others will be along to give their suggestions about the graphics, that's not really my department. But if I think of anything else, I'll certainly post it here. ;)
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10Mar Update

Postby cairnswk on Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:53 pm

Image

Thanks kindly for your input Samus. The bonus configuration makes a big difference.

The map above has been updated to adjust the font and font highlight, as well as some borders, and geographic highlights.
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