Three Kingdoms of Korea [Quenched]

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Three Kingdoms of Korea [Quenched]

Postby natty dread on Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:18 pm

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Three Kingdoms of Korea

Graphics: Natty_dread
Gameplay: Industrial Helix

UPDATES:

XML - download/file.php?id=290
Large- http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/4477/korea28.png
Small- http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/790/korea28s.png

v28
XML: download/file.php?id=290

Click image to enlarge.
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show: older versions


show: 888 tests


show: Colourblind tests

Gameplay:

47 territories in 6 bonus areas
includes 5 capitals and 7 castles

No regular territory bonus: any amount of territories gives +3 troops (so starting territory amounts do not matter on 2 player games)

All capitals start with 2 neutrals each
All castles start with 3 neutrals each
Both Wa territories start with 1 neutral each

All territories adjacent to capitals (except Jinhan which has a castle) are starting positions with 3 troops, a total of 9 territories

The other 24 territories start normally.

2-3 player games: 12 territories/player
4 player games: 8 territories/player
5 player games: 6 territories/player
6 player games: 5 territories/player
7-8 player games: 4 territories/player

Each bonus area only gives a bonus if it's corresponding capital is held, with exception of Wa, which gives a bonus if you hold both territories. If you hold either Wa territory and any capital, you get a negative bonus (troop penalty).

Each castle territory gives a +1 bonus.

Wa: 2 territories, +2 bonus, -4 if either territory is held with a capital
Gaya: 4 territories - 3 shared with Silla, 1 with Baekje - +1 for every 2 w/capital
Silla: 12 territories - 3 shared with Goguryeo, 3 with Gaya, 1 with Baekje - +2 for each territory w/capital
Goguryeo: 24 territories - 3 shared with Silla, 1 with Baekje, 4 with Tang - +1 for each territory w/capital
Baekje: 9 territories - 1 shared with Gaya, 1 with Goguryeo, 1 with Silla - +1 for each 2 w/capital
Tang: 8 territories - 4 shared with Goguryeo - +3 for each 2, w/capital

Territories with junks connect to other territories that have junks of same colour:

- tamna, kyuyshu, aragaya, hwangsanbeol & honshu attack each other
- teng-chou & gyaongju attack each other
- teng-chou, liaoning & shabei attack each other
- honshu & chonsong fortress attack each other
Last edited by natty dread on Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:32 am, edited 64 times in total.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby Victor Sullivan on Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:24 pm

Nice graphics! The font in the legend is hard to read, but I suppose that's more graphics.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby natty dread on Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:26 pm

Thanks. All the icons + the mountains are sort of placeholders, I'll look into drawing fancier ones in graphics... Fonts will be open for debate as well.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby Victor Sullivan on Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:33 pm

My main concern is with all the striped territories, pretty much only one maybe two people will be able to hold a bonus at one time. In addition, Goguryeo would be impossible to hold, and the bonus would only be used as overkill.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby natty dread on Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:49 pm

Do you understand how the bonuses work?
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby Victor Sullivan on Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:09 pm

natty_dread wrote:Do you understand how the bonuses work?

Oh, haha... I thought that was in addition to a standard continent bonus that wasn't listed on the map... Ol' Sully's jut embarrassing himself, carry on with your regular duties...
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby Industrial Helix on Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:02 pm

I've got a lot via graphics suggestions...

The title would benefit from capital letters and you wrote it in Chinese, not Korean. One would think Korean would be more appropriate ;) But overall, I'm glad to see some effort to bring foreign language into CC.

Mountains are gorgeous... if anything let the texture of the map come through more.

Those capitals and castles that you apparently copied are just little ditties I threw in the gameplay map... this might take some research into what a Korean Castle and capital look like. Perhaps even into what Pyongyang looks like versus Seoul.

The stripes... I think diagonal might look more dynamic. Regardless, I think the outline scheme kind of clashes with the filled in scheme of the stripes. I wonder if there is a better way to depict the regions and the dual regions.

And the colors... I'd be in favor of desaturating them. I think we're going for the old map look, so the colors ought to look old and worn as well.

My fault but, Kaya in the legend should be Gaya.

As for gameplay, I'm thinking Hanju ought to border Ungjin Baekje is a little bottled up there.

Kyushu and Honshu should border... maybe draw a little line or something?

When ever it is that you feel like you wanna put neutral values on there, territories with castles or capitals start at 3 neutral.

Gaya... I figure we'll need two neutrals or four starting positions... maybe make it six starting positions if we include Wa.

And in the legend, Wa's bonus needs to read something closer to -4 for holding a capital and either Honshu or Kyushu... its my original bad wording, I know, sorry.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby natty dread on Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:27 am

Industrial Helix wrote:The title would benefit from capital letters and you wrote it in Chinese, not Korean. One would think Korean would be more appropriate ;)


One would think, but according to my research, the Korean alphabet was not invented at the time. ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangul
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanja

Industrial Helix wrote:Those capitals and castles that you apparently copied are just little ditties I threw in the gameplay map... this might take some research into what a Korean Castle and capital look like. Perhaps even into what Pyongyang looks like versus Seoul.


I actually did draw them myself, but yeah, I used your design. Yes, we should look into it.

Industrial Helix wrote:The stripes... I think diagonal might look more dynamic. Regardless, I think the outline scheme kind of clashes with the filled in scheme of the stripes. I wonder if there is a better way to depict the regions and the dual regions.


If we have to choose between outline/filled, I'd go with outline for this map... If we can just think of something for the double regions.

Industrial Helix wrote:And the colors... I'd be in favor of desaturating them. I think we're going for the old map look, so the colors ought to look old and worn as well.

My fault but, Kaya in the legend should be Gaya.


Will do.

Industrial Helix wrote:Kyushu and Honshu should border... maybe draw a little line or something?


In that case, I'd suggest we replace the red & green junks with line routes as well... if there's going to be sea routes represented by lines, then we might as well make those connections easier to see.

Industrial Helix wrote:And in the legend, Wa's bonus needs to read something closer to -4 for holding a capital and either Honshu or Kyushu... its my original bad wording, I know, sorry.


Ok... are the other legend wordings ok?
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby natty dread on Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:54 am

Here's some things taken care of

Click image to enlarge.
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One more thing comes to mind... perhaps Goguryeo could have a second capital? It has so many territories, it seems a bit unfair that only 1 player can benefit from them...

Also, I'm going to go ahead and post a design brief.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby natty dread on Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:32 am

Slight update: alternate font for legend & title.

Also, I plotted out some enlargened 88:s to the smallest parts to see if they work for the small version - they should.

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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby Industrial Helix on Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:35 am

Ok, if we're going to b historical about the title, then its old Korean we want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Korean#Old_Korean

You're right about using both lines and junks, I think I'd prefer Junks. Go back to the original scheme and add in two more connecting Honshu and Kyushu?

As for the starburst style you showed me via PM... i'm not really feeling it.

What do you think about getting as many names onto the territories represented as possible? I think it might make things a little more streamlined.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby natty dread on Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:50 am

Industrial Helix wrote:Ok, if we're going to b historical about the title, then its old Korean we want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Korean#Old_Korean


Ok.. can you find out what the Three Kingdoms were called in old korean? And how it was spelled? I'll adjust the text accordingly.

You're right about using both lines and junks, I think I'd prefer Junks. Go back to the original scheme and add in two more connecting Honshu and Kyushu?


Ok, that seems reasonable.

As for the starburst style you showed me via PM... i'm not really feeling it.


Yeah that was just an experiment...

What do you think about getting as many names onto the territories represented as possible? I think it might make things a little more streamlined.


Way ahead of you... they will be in the next update ;)

Also, what about the Kaema/Salsu border? Should Kaema border Salsu only, or should the border be lower so that Kaema borders Lelang? The shape of Salsu as it is now seems a bit... well, convoluted. And Kaema is a dead end...
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby Industrial Helix on Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:34 pm

natty_dread wrote:
Industrial Helix wrote:Ok, if we're going to b historical about the title, then its old Korean we want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Korean#Old_Korean


Ok.. can you find out what the Three Kingdoms were called in old korean? And how it was spelled? I'll adjust the text accordingly.


...and as it turns out, the Koreans used Hanja before they developed Hangul to express their phonetics. Kind of like how the Japanese use Chinese characters but ascribe totally different sounds to them. So, in short, using Chinese characters is totally time appropriate.

I dunno if you knew that and just sent me on a goose chase to prove your point, lol. But point taken.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby natty dread on Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:12 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:...and as it turns out, the Koreans used Hanja before they developed Hangul to express their phonetics. Kind of like how the Japanese use Chinese characters but ascribe totally different sounds to them. So, in short, using Chinese characters is totally time appropriate.

I dunno if you knew that and just sent me on a goose chase to prove your point, lol. But point taken.


No I didn't, I swear... I mean I did think that chinese characters were used but I thought maybe you knew something I didn't... ;)
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby natty dread on Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:47 pm

next iteration - more junks, better icons, general rearranging of stuff...

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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby natty dread on Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:12 am

Ok I think maybe I should make the map a notch brighter:

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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby natty dread on Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:43 am

An alternative solution for the striped areas:

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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby theBastard on Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:24 am

=D>

ofcourse I saw your start in HCS, but I had not energy and time to comment or help you. great gameplay, great graphics. I more like version where all regions are stripped, so not only borders. it is much more "redable".
also the change of font helps.

one question: did/do you think to do castles "independent" areas? it should be fine.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby Industrial Helix on Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:47 am

I like the new solution better visually... but I wonder if it shows the mixed regions well enough.

As for the castles or palaces as independent regions... I wasn't planning on it. The castle and palace just indicate the territory's value.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby natty dread on Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:05 am

theBastard wrote: =D>


Thanks.

Industrial Helix wrote:I like the new solution better visually... but I wonder if it shows the mixed regions well enough.

As for the castles or palaces as independent regions... I wasn't planning on it. The castle and palace just indicate the territory's value.


I thought the same thing (of both parts of the post).
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby natty dread on Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:17 pm

Maybe if I make the coloured area thicker for the striped areas?
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby Industrial Helix on Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:19 pm

natty_dread wrote:Maybe if I make the coloured area thicker for the striped areas?


That might do it... I was thinking maybe a sort of dashed outline might work as well (alternating colors).... which now that I think about it, is essentially what you have now. Maybe make the lines longer?
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby natty dread on Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:51 pm

Hm, yeah. I'll see what I can do.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby natty dread on Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:44 pm

Well here I widened the stripes, and I also tweaked the colours somewhat.

I think it looks better now.

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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby Victor Sullivan on Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:47 pm

Now tang and silla look veeeerry similar in color...
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Medals: 45
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (3) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)
General Achievement (9) Map Contribution (4) Tournament Contribution (1) General Contribution (6)

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