Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

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Re: Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:32 am

Ahoy Everyone,

The Admins and I, and along with the whole of Team CC, have discussed some of the insights and critiques gleaned from this topic (and others similarly related).


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I've grouped some similarly themed posts and thoughts together:

Professionalism, Customer Service, and Marketing

  • Post 1, Post 2. CC is not professional enough (I.E. Volunteer based business) to grow dramatically. CC also needs to consider replacing or supplementing additional management.

  • Post. CC at times smells of hobby-website. Instead, CC should strive for something like http://www.chess.com/ .

  • Post 1. CC's management can do better address User Suggestions that have waited for years or have dramatic backing. By not addressing these fully, CC can't grow the market and may potentially drift out-of-touch with Customer Base.
    • Post. The webmaster should listen to Mapmakers / Tournaments / Clans [Community Created Content] more, since they are a core driving elements of the Community and the website in general.
  • Post 1, Post 2, Post 3. The problem isn't effective marketing but effect customer service, especially in regards to webmaster coding and feature updates. User Interface can be dramatically improved, and functionality can as well. "Partial Updates" instead of full blown and worked out features or updates with more than one item can be trying on an eager and hungry Community.


New User Impressions, Retention

  • Post. First impressions of CC leading to low user retention, in addition to lack of real 'Welcome' info.

  • Post 1, Post 2. 24 Hours to take turn initially makes user experience less fun or "what's the point of bothering to check back," leading to lower retention.
    • Post 1, Post 2, Post 3. Various suggestions regarding giving Freemiums a better taste of Speed Games, or restricting certain initial Classic Speed Games for New Users to avoid increasing future multiple accounts.
  • Post 1, Post 2, Post 3. The Community isn't always 'noob' or new user friendly, especially with multi accusations.

  • Post 1, Post 2. Rewarding those who help or are polite to new users / noobs should occur; better promotion of the Training Academy.

  • Post. Rightly or wrongly, Dice a large contributing factor to both first impressions and ongoing impressions.

  • Post. Referral Program can be dramatically improved. Reworking it could lead to better user retention and increased users and sales.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

In regards to the 1st Category, we are once again undertaking search for Web Developers. A proper announcement regarding this process, with more details on how it will be done and how the Community will be kept informed and in the loop during it all, is to come. We know that most of the insights and critiques those have about Conquer Club, stem from the core issues of updates / coding, and many can resolved through both more regular updates, and updates that not only address items wanted by the Community but also updates that can grow the Community. We see Web Developers and updates as the "tide that floats all boats."

Additionally, we will be working closer with our own Tech Team, since we know that many of our Team CC Depts. have needs for tools and databases to better serve the Public Community. Specific coding and related projects have also been underway to better utilize the talents we are so lucky to have.


In regards to the 2nd Category, one of the tests we'd like to give the web developers when they are brought on for selection narrowing, is an enhanced referral program re-worked to work with Facebook and Twitter integration (other tests to be expanded upon more in the official topic to come). For example, a referral program like this might allow you to blast your referral to your personal feeds if you have them, in addition to just sending out e-mails. Additionally, an enhanced or at least diversified rewards system away from just solely Premium Membership.

(Moreover, when we have our final selection of web developers, their first official priorities will revolve around the long awaited and anticipated Clans Database, to better serve our Clan Community and Clan Directors, and a proper Account Sitting Feature.)

The above mentioned integration would be a stepping stone to enhanced Social Media integration throughout the rest of the website, possibly including by not limited to: Facebook connect to sign up to CC; quick-finding of one's social media friends on CC; invitations through social media to join games; etc.

Additionally, we're going to investigate ways to both promote the Training Academy more, and ways to make Conquer Club more newbie friendly, such as reviewing and enhancing the documentation and Training PMs that are currently sent out to new users upon various milestones.

These are just a few things, but I wanted to share something concrete with you all, since you helped spur this excellent discussion.




>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Additionally, since there has been some inquiries into stats, I thought I would share some of the stats I've been keeping as Community Manager. Stats for August I'll finish completing next week probably, and can update everything then:

show: Various Stats Long Term



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Re: Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

Postby Pirlo on Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:01 am

Nice Andy
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Re: Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

Postby greenoaks on Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:06 am

the stats in the spoiler don't show for me.
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Re: Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

Postby chapcrap on Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:37 pm

greenoaks wrote:the stats in the spoiler don't show for me.

Don't know if it was edited since this post or not, but the stats show up fine for me.

I for one, also appreciate the update. I hope there are more updates to come. Not only informational updates, but site updates. Thanks.
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Re: Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

Postby Stephen Wayne on Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:51 pm

I Have not read any of the postings here so sorry for just posting an opinion.

I would like to see ConquerClub in stores like any other online game advertisement.
So obviously that has not happened yet and we have a way to go more work should go into this.

Therefor our marketing is not effective. Please Anyone if you can help please do. If this gets outthere it WILL stick. :mrgreen: ConquerClub :mrgreen:
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Re: Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

Postby Fruitcake on Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:46 am

Well you may find Andy's post a lovely thing, but all I read is the same old nonsense spouted in a different way. Why am I not surprised?

cc has never shown quality management and never will, simple. The reason for this? They wouldn't know quality management if it knocked them down. Lateral thought and awareness is completely beyond the admin based on decisions made and the system of control is based on the lowest common denominator, further testament to their idiocy.

The owner of this site has, historically, given very poor levels of service, yet paid high levels of lip service to the community (a perfect example is this thread).

The number of players who do not renew is frightening. There are numerous ways (proven) of how to retain loyalty and compensation from an existing customer base (which is always far easier than constantly grinding in new customers) and if there really was a professional in admin then this would have been identified and sorted out.
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Re: Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:17 am

First, I'm enthused that my experiment of tapping into the community's aggregate knowledge and skills was successful, so why don't we give each other a round of applause because we're so awesome?


Second, please hold all donations to yours truly, as the idea of starting this thread and the further guidance ITT is payment for the previously owed 11+ months of modding (roughly $23.00 USD). Nevertheless, if I can't persuade you to not donate, please donate to the following address:





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I've been squatting there--it's rather cozy, but there's no running water. :(



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Re: Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:18 am

Fruitcake wrote:Well you may find Andy's post a lovely thing, but all I read is the same old nonsense spouted in a different way. Why am I not surprised?

cc has never shown quality management and never will, simple. The reason for this? They wouldn't know quality management if it knocked them down. Lateral thought and awareness is completely beyond the admin based on decisions made and the system of control is based on the lowest common denominator, further testament to their idiocy.

The owner of this site has, historically, given very poor levels of service, yet paid high levels of lip service to the community (a perfect example is this thread).

The number of players who do not renew is frightening. There are numerous ways (proven) of how to retain loyalty and compensation from an existing customer base (which is always far easier than constantly grinding in new customers) and if there really was a professional in admin then this would have been identified and sorted out.


I generally agree with this, but I'd have phrased it more diplomatically.

ConquerClub seems to be headed in a downward spiral (if not now, but more likely in the long-term). Current capabilities allow for marginal improvements, but that is still a duct-tape solution with silver lining.

It seems that the big shots don't have the professional business skills and knowledge to steer this place in the right direction. Granted that it's difficult relinquishing control, it may be best for ConquerClub to find professionals, or they should strongly consider seeking professional training; otherwise, none of the proposals will be effectively implemented.

The above shouldn't be taken as harsh criticism for I am only expressing my concerns.


[RE: Andy's post] Thanks Andy, lack, and the other big shots for being transparent; it's a good move.
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Re: Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

Postby Pirlo on Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:26 am

Fruitcake wrote:Well you may find Andy's post a lovely thing, but all I read is the same old nonsense spouted in a different way. Why am I not surprised?

cc has never shown quality management and never will, simple. The reason for this? They wouldn't know quality management if it knocked them down. Lateral thought and awareness is completely beyond the admin based on decisions made and the system of control is based on the lowest common denominator, further testament to their idiocy.

The owner of this site has, historically, given very poor levels of service, yet paid high levels of lip service to the community (a perfect example is this thread).

The number of players who do not renew is frightening. There are numerous ways (proven) of how to retain loyalty and compensation from an existing customer base (which is always far easier than constantly grinding in new customers) and if there really was a professional in admin then this would have been identified and sorted out.


I see the sense of your post. I haven't been active in this GD forum for long. I became more active when I got sick of the game itself (playing, beating and losing to the same people is no fun... constant fresh blood needed), and this is why I'm not renewing, beside having become more busy. I still believe that voluntary-based business will never go far.

usually the lack of competition leads to poor service. if CC felt that competitive businesses are taking over its share, the admin would definitely move a bit faster.. but rather, the admin is treating this in a very backward way like a tree that produce a good amount of fruit, forgetting that those who are involved in this business are people and may, at anytime, get bored and leave.
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Re: Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

Postby TaCktiX on Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:47 am

I'm going to have to say that the above opinions are valid were it not for one major thing: TeamCC won't allow it. While you guys were having a very great discussion about it in GD, we were having a very similar one in the private forum. This announcement is the beginning of a change of direction. If it isn't, we'll be screaming bloody murder long before GD does.
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Re: Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

Postby chapcrap on Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:45 am

TaCktiX wrote:I'm going to have to say that the above opinions are valid were it not for one major thing: TeamCC won't allow it. While you guys were having a very great discussion about it in GD, we were having a very similar one in the private forum. This announcement is the beginning of a change of direction. If it isn't, we'll be screaming bloody murder long before GD does.

I hope this is true x2361!

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Re: Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:24 pm

TaCktiX wrote:I'm going to have to say that the above opinions are valid were it not for one major thing: TeamCC won't allow it. While you guys were having a very great discussion about it in GD, we were having a very similar one in the private forum. This announcement is the beginning of a change of direction. If it isn't, we'll be screaming bloody murder long before GD does.


"BLOODY MURDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


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Re: Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

Postby friendly1 on Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:15 pm

TaCktiX wrote:I'm going to have to say that the above opinions are valid were it not for one major thing: TeamCC won't allow it. While you guys were having a very great discussion about it in GD, we were having a very similar one in the private forum. This announcement is the beginning of a change of direction. If it isn't, we'll be screaming bloody murder long before GD does.


Well, in my opinion the loss of some amazing TeamCC members is the equivalent effect of screaming bloody murder. Most notably when these departures are not happening on good terms. However to their credit the individuals restrict their differing opinions and difficulties with the ownership from public view.

A leaky boat gets repaired by the starters, a sinking boat has starters abandon ship. I suspect the analogy does not apply here though, as I believe starters are abandoning the captain...

Andy has put together a good encapsulation of opinions expressed and potential actions being considered. However as in all things this has not been validated or endorsed by the ownership group (publicly that is: I am, as the majority of us are, unaware of private discussions). It occurs to me that "effective marketing" per se would be much more successful if the core of population for CC felt there was an invested and motivated owner - there seems to be a growing opinion that this is not the case, and I feel its a fair assessment in the absence of any information or communication.

I'm not sure actions taken by CC have demonstrated an interest by ownership to grow the site, however I am certain there has been no public commitment towards doing so.

I'm sure there will be many dissenting opinions and comments, and I welcome them. This is just my opinion and that does not make it right. I'm calling it as I see it, and hope this sparks awareness rather than dissension. Most likely outcome will be a Lack of response if history holds true to form.

...
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Re: Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

Postby patrickaa317 on Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:43 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
TaCktiX wrote:I'm going to have to say that the above opinions are valid were it not for one major thing: TeamCC won't allow it. While you guys were having a very great discussion about it in GD, we were having a very similar one in the private forum. This announcement is the beginning of a change of direction. If it isn't, we'll be screaming bloody murder long before GD does.


"BLOODY MURDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


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Are you sure it's 1-0? There were a couple hours difference there, TaC could have easily gotten a lead on you in that time.
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Re: Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:26 am

patrickaa317 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
TaCktiX wrote:I'm going to have to say that the above opinions are valid were it not for one major thing: TeamCC won't allow it. While you guys were having a very great discussion about it in GD, we were having a very similar one in the private forum. This announcement is the beginning of a change of direction. If it isn't, we'll be screaming bloody murder long before GD does.


"BLOODY MURDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


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Are you sure it's 1-0? There were a couple hours difference there, TaC could have easily gotten a lead on you in that time.


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Re: Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

Postby AAFitz on Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:20 am

show: Various Stats Long Term


So can I conclude from a quick look at these charts that CC activity is pretty steady overall, and that the only thing that is a problem is that we are apparently becoming worse players. (IE. the score is the only drop off.)

I would once again like to add that new players are hugely affected by the rating system, and they end up getting much lower ratings than they probably deserve. I kept playing at CC partly because of the old feedback system, and that I had a good rating. Im not sure Id have stuck around if I got all ones on my first couple games simply because I was new, and had a horrible rating. Though....im not sure all would consider that a bad thing...

I think it is the most overlooked problem on the site....unless of course its been addressed in the years Ive been mentioning it...in which case...Kudos.
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Re: Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

Postby Leehar on Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:41 am

AAFitz wrote:
show: Various Stats Long Term


So can I conclude from a quick look at these charts that CC activity is pretty steady overall, and that the only thing that is a problem is that we are apparently becoming worse players. (IE. the score is the only drop off.)

I think thats the scoreboard you're referring to, which basically means the amount of people that have been active within the last 30 days
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Re: Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

Postby Mr Changsha on Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:50 am

Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

Nope. It lacks a coherent vision. The continuous expansion of styles and maps has diluted the product. People come here to play Risk, but instead find a confusing mess of game styles that each no doubt attract a few, but in general fail to enthuse the mass.

I feel this thread of mine covers the point in much more detail...

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=138328&p=3019337#p3019337
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Re: Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:53 pm

Mr Changsha wrote:Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

Nope. It lacks a coherent vision. The continuous expansion of styles and maps has diluted the product. People come here to play Risk, but instead find a confusing mess of game styles that each no doubt attract a few, but in general fail to enthuse the mass.

I feel this thread of mine covers the point in much more detail...

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=138328&p=3019337#p3019337


Your contribution ties in neatly to defend the idea that this website should provide its newbies a more approachable method like http://www.chess.com's.


But coherent vision is a good reason. That's why I said that the CC big shots "don't have the professional business skills and knowledge to steer this place in the right direction. Granted that it's difficult relinquishing control, it may be best for ConquerClub to find professionals, or they should strongly consider seeking professional training; otherwise, none of the proposals will be effectively implemented."

(http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=151558&start=60#p3351845).


God damnit, why are you so agreeable?
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Re: Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

Postby danfrank on Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:20 pm

Although i agree with many of the points discussed , hell probably all of them. We dont know what direction the ownership would to head with this site. Infact there are many aspects that we as patrons do not know. i personally do not believe the site is a cash cow at this stage and any profit that is taken is definitly not reinvested with these same issues being unresolved.
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Re: Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

Postby PLAYER57832 on Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:16 am

To begin, we all have to realize that only a very small percentage of people ever come to the forums. That means that even very "popular" ideas may not really and truly be popular or beneficial for the site.

A lot of what I have seen and heard is really grousing over "growing pains". It seems Lack always intended for the site to expand on Risk. A laudable goal. It was perhaps pushed a bit by Hasbro, but the truth is that CC long ago left that game behind. Saying CC is "Risk based", is true, but only in the way that one can say all modern plays harken back to Shakespeare. True.. but the child has long surpassed the origin. West Side Story is absolutely a copy of Romeo and Juliet, but in very, very important ways it is also quite different. Liking Romeo and Juliet does not mean one will like West Side Story or vice-versa. Risk is great, but CC is great in its own right... only needs to find a better way to describe and advertise THAT, not just be a "step child" of Risk. Sure, it will take time for people to learn what CC is, in its own right. Its a lot easier to just let people search for Risk and find CC as one of the options, but CC has grown. Its time CC leaped out of the "Risk nest" and began to fly on its own.

I get somewhat frustrated when I see a lot of complaints essentially saying "we need to get back to Risk". That path is gone, but not just gone.. it was a mistake to think this site ever SHOULD stay a "Risk only" site. Let me be clear. There is nothing wrong, at all, with having multiple maps with the "1 for 3" and basic area bonuses, on maps more or less based on "real" maps. People like them. That is great. I DO have a problem when people complain about all the other types of maps out there and map playing styles. As someone else noted, having all those maps in no way means the "standard" maps have to disappear. HOWEVER, because so much of the site is focused on just those maps (for yes, obvious reasons), I strongly feel that the site has neglected advertisement and promotion of the variety maps that really and truly make this site different and unique.

This IS about marketing, image and also training. However, I don't really see that the comments above actually address the real issues. Instead, the concentrate on what are basically surface issues... how the site "looks", etc. Those are important! However, fixing any of that without dealing with the core issue of "what this site should be" is just going to mean heading off in wrong directions.

First, regarding long-standing suggestions. The Suggs forum was a great idea, people like being able to contribute. However, when suggestions remain "ready to implement" for 2 years and still nothing.. its a waste. What about that zombie nuetral suggestion, for example? It was pretty popular for a while, but suddenly it died. Even basic things, like just letting people search based on wins/loses along with other criteria in game finder, so people can see how many times they won a particular map or against particular people, etc... No, its not map-ranking, or cross-map, just total wins and losses, but people want that information and it would be easy to change it so people can find it without having to manually count them. There are other, similar suggestions. Either these suggestions need to be implemented or the pretense of having suggestions needs to be removed. Personally, I think referring suggestions and other problems to a kind of committee would be beneficial. Right now mods sort of serve that purpose, but they simply have too many "hats". That gets to the next point.

Initially, it was fine to just label all volunteers as "moderators". They all basically were discussion moderators, but did other things, too. The color-coding has helped seperate them some, but that needs to be more formal, duties need to be more firmly assigned and divided. I would like to see a group of just plain discussion moderators for GD and particularly the Off-Topics forum that STRICTLY deal with the discussions. Other assistants will have other titles, depending on their duties. As noted, a committee could look at and work to implement suggestions. BUT, again, before those suggestions get implemented, there needs to be a bit clearer picture of what this place should be. Lack may have that vision already. He might not need to share it with everyone, but it should be shared with people working in the site, making changes, etc. And.. at least a basic idea should go out to the community, so you don't get 10,000 suggestions "why don't we become like the chess site .... [answer: that is not what CC is]" or whatever.

Sorry, got a tad off my point there (though it is related). Anyway, to get back to "is CC Risk". The time has come to just plain stop asking that and accept that CC is not and should not be "Risk". However, where should CC go? As noted, a LOT of people like what I call the "traditional" maps. A lot of other people like the variations on those themes that still keep them more or less "looking" traditional, but that have a number of variations... that is, bombardments, various spoils options, strange attack routes, auto-reinforcements, etc. BUT, there is another contingent that likes the maps that are truly unusual.. From AOR to Fuedal to Arms Race!

When I hear complaints about people "not understanding those maps" and "let's limit access", I pretty much want to scream "But a LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE THOSE MAPS!". Also, the whole idea that understanding the "traditional" maps has to come first, will in any way really help folks understand those variety maps is just plain wrong. However, because you start with saying "go to the training ground, learn this style", you basically tell people to avoid all those other maps. This means you push people into the most competetive, highly skilled forms of play right off the bat. I admit, I came here because I wanted to play Risk online. However, I stayed because I found many other maps I could play. I quickly learned that I was "in over my head" in many standard (what we now call "Classic") map games. It was by going for the more unusual maps... Crossword, Coral Cairns and then Age of Merchants, that I found my "niche" and wound up enjoying this site enough to buy a premium.

So much of the orientation of this site now specifically turns newbies away from those options.

Now, I understand that its impossible to have a comprehensive training program for all the maps and map styles. There is nothing wrong with having a place for people to learn to play the standard maps. The problem is when there is no or almost no real and true discussion about the variety of maps.. not in a way that new people would or can understand. If you go to the Training Academy, for example, you see mention of other maps and playin styles, team teaching is already there, but you just don't see anything that says "hey, we have AOR.. we have Arms Race!.. we have Oasis... try some of those, too, they are different, but you might just find you like them!".

THAT, to me is what CC being professional would mean. Someone would come in.. maybe wanting area maps, maybe not (if promos change, fewer people will associate this site with Risk at all). Anyway, they come and see maps grouped by categories. Then THEY could decide FOR THEMSELVES what types of maps they would wish to play. Its not about telling people what they can and cannot or even "should" do, its about giving them the tools to enable them to better make those decisions themselves.

I know that has been controversial. Mostly because the opinions have come from the vocal old-timers, who to a large extent, are "stuck" on the "traditional maps" and really could care less about much of anything else. In this case, looking at those old timers for advice just won't work. They will tell you what is already here, what already makes them happy. In short, many of them would prefer CC had never changed. (I admit I concur about the ratings system.. but that's another story).

Trying to determine what maps people want to play at all is just wrong. The fact is, you never really know. People themselves don't know until they actually get in an play. I went on a "quest" to play & win every map, first 5 wins, then 10 wins. I found that after playing that many times, I disliked many maps I initially liked (yes, particularly the "standard area" maps.. I frankly find them similar and just boring), but wound up liking some maps I had initially HATED. Draknor,the dungeon is a good example. Its human nature to dislike things we don't really understand, cannot do well.

I said before, but I worked up some classifications for maps. It might have been a tad too detailed, but istead of looking at things like size, which is a pretty obvious and easy to grasp difference for anyone, I looked at play style. My idea was that people could gradually pcik maps that introduced various features, picking their own way to learning the maps. Some people might want to just start with maps that have bombardments or some strange-looking attack routes. Other people (like myself), however, might be happy plunging right into maps that play very differently.. knowing in advance that they will have to read the legend, learn different methods of play, etc. To "each his own". I firmly and completely reject almost all attempts to limit maps people CAN play, because people don't need "nanies". Instead, though, I would like to see better identification so people are not plunged unkowingly into stumbling on AOR the first time they try something other than classic.. or the first map they try, not realizing that this is just one of many, many very different maps.

I suggest first seperating and labeling the maps. Overall, standard play versus unusual play, complicated versus basic. I would keep the training program, but label it as a "program to learn classic play maps", not give the impression that this is the beginning step to all maps. (it is not!). It is great for people who want to learn to play the standard play maps in traditional ways, but is absolutely not an overall learning program. That's fine. There is no way to have a full training program for ALL maps, in a practical sense. However, people need to know that from the start more clearly. When and if they get tired of the training, they need to know there are other options and be able to easily find them. THAT is how people will wind up staying.. finding options when they get tired of what they have been playing.

When I started, there were less than 30 maps. (I actually thought there were fewer, but remembe searching and finding that number). I can remember being confused even then. Heaven help new people who start out now! Again, this is not about limiting maps or changing availability in any way, its about communication and labeling.

Even the current limits.. against Assassin, the very complicated maps (Waterloo, Iraq, etc) are rather pointless. They only apply for the first 5 games, which is hardly enough to really learn much about CC at this point, with the huge variety here. AND, there really is not a lot of communication about why those maps are limited. I would prefer that someone get a kind of "do you know what you are getting into?" warning the first time they try to play any of the unusual features or maps. Actually, I would like to see that the first time people click on ANY map. For example "you have picked a 'standard play map".. bonuses are 1 for every 3, more bonuses for areas"... etc . Or, better yet, have them grouped in the listings so people know before they even pick them what is involved. Then, maybe a brief "you do realize you picked Assassin.. Nuclear spoils.. etc.".."please be sure read the instructions for how these are played" the FIRST time someone picks those options. After that.. its time to just let people play or not play, as THEY decide.

FARMING
This whole concept has rather confused me. Going by some of the criteria, I could easily be labeled a "farmer", except that my rank is rarely very high ;) , and I basically just play games I start (with few exceptions) because it confuses me to switch colors all the time. As I said above, I start multiple games on unusual maps, play a lot of newbies. etc. I know other older players who have similar patterns. Johnny Rocket was trying to play more new people than anyone else (is he still? I don't know). I have seen several people I fully enjoyed playing "sent away" on accusations of farming because they just plain liked to play unusual maps. (one I remember used to start 20-30 AOR2 maps at a time). What harm did they cause? From the outset, I find concern over the ranks and such to be a tad silly, but that is just me. I know some people take it seriously. (I find the whole idea of comparing someone who plays AOR2 to Arm RAce to teamps on Classic map a bit.. odd). However, the thing is that people who take the rank seriously ALWAYS find issues with their opponents. Its almost a sport unto itself. "Win or, if you cannot win, chew down your opponent, convince yourself they really did not deserve to win!". I see most of that as pure grousing by what I hesitate to call "bad sports" (because for most it all IS just another part of the game.. another type of game-playing), but which I will say is really as much a side event as anythig else.

Anyway, the REAL issue, now is not "does the conquerer deserve to be there".. "do high rankers deserve their ranks". (Again, those issues will be argued, debated and eventually sorted out by those "in the running"). The REAL issue is what makes people stay and what makes people leave. BUT, the REAL answer there is "many things" or "it really depends on the person". And that is the true key to CC, as I see it. The more CC tries to please one group or the other, the more they wind up angering yet more people. Too often, they wind up not really pleasing those first intended to be pleased and also angering many others.

Of course, some of the biggest and most controversial changes have not really been by choice. CC CANNOT be Risk. That is what it is, but I don't think CC has done enough to see that as a positive. (again, "intensity cubes'' come on!.. infected nuetrals, on the other hand.. THAT is the kind of move away from Risk we need!).

The Rating system sort of fits both of the above. It DID need to change. I think most of us "longer standing" players recognized that. However, the change that was made, while it started out being a community effort and so forth, wound up being well... a half designed, poorly implemented idea that really pleases no one. I DO think that issue needs to be revisited. There ARE other options and enough time has passed that I believe people are able to remove themselves from the "I just want the old system" ideas that seemed to dominate discussions way back. I think we understand we need an automated system (no mod intervention except in extreme cases), but we also need something more equitable and easier to use than what exists now.

This is already far longer than I intended (sorry). Still, I hope you will give what I say some consideration. Either way.. thank you for your continued Efforts, team.. and Andy in particular
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Re: Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

Postby whitestazn88 on Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:07 am

tl;dr
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Re: Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

Postby Woodruff on Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:19 am

PLAYER57832 wrote:First, regarding long-standing suggestions. The Suggs forum was a great idea, people like being able to contribute. However, when suggestions remain "ready to implement" for 2 years and still nothing.. its a waste.


Two years...ha...that's so cute!
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Re: Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

Postby Agent 86 on Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:25 am

Woodruff wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:First, regarding long-standing suggestions. The Suggs forum was a great idea, people like being able to contribute. However, when suggestions remain "ready to implement" for 2 years and still nothing.. its a waste.


Two years...ha...that's so cute!


Unfortunately it's true, not cute ;)
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Re: Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

Postby chapcrap on Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:09 pm

Mr Changsha wrote:Does ConquerClub lack effective marketing?

Nope. It lacks a coherent vision. The continuous expansion of styles and maps has diluted the product. People come here to play Risk, but instead find a confusing mess of game styles that each no doubt attract a few, but in general fail to enthuse the mass.

Perhaps there should be ready made games for newbies with the 'normal' Risk settings. Is that something that is possible? A bunch of Auto, Seq, Standard, Escalating, Chained, Sunny games? Perhaps if these ready made games were ready from the beginning, then the new players would get a feel for the site on something familiar and stick around for a little more gaming on other maps and settings too.
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