Terminator Experiment Results

[Gilligan]

I'd ban you all for 6 months for this stunt.

Then I'm really glad you aren't Lack.

[treefiddy]

You assume that Lack was not contacted. This issue was posted about several times before and most Conquer Club members already knew what terminator games were all about. When I first joined, I was in a game of 5 where the other 4 deadbeated. I received zero points since it was terminator.

The feedback system has always been pointless in the hands of people who don't use it properly. I was just commenting to someone today about some negative feedback he received because of someone else (me). He wasn't able to get it removed. While I don't agree with any of the negative feedbacks that player left that day, the only person that should still have it is myself.

I'm not entirely sure how this stops or slows down future innovation. If it's decided that it will be fixed, it will go on a "To-Do List", then it will be implemented on Lack's time.

Should nothing come of this, then we can assume that deadbeating out of Terminator games is "ok" just the same as the defacto double-turns seem to have reverted to "ok" status.

And if I got banned, I'd just create a bunch of accounts and throw games on purpose. Make sure to take that to the cheating forum. You got rock solid evidence now.

[DiM]

All this really proved is that

#1 folks can come to conquerclub.com, expect a fair game and what they get instead is unknowingly involved in an "experiment" run by self-important ninnies.

#2 the feedback system is almost entirely pointless since having you receive anything less than dozens of negative feedback means that almost no one cared about leaving well deserved negative feedback.

Bravo on finding this flaw. Hiss on not going through lack in the first place to get it remedied. Do you not find lack responsive enough on fixing things? This "experiment" just demonstrates to lack that he's in a no-win situation, either he:

* Stops or slows down innovation and faces complaints from folks wanting new features, or

* Innovates and has a gaggle of brats gunning to embarrass him publicly.

I'd ban you all for 6 months for this stunt.

the 1v1 terminator problem is well know and people have requested a change for quite some time. i decided to do this experiment to prove the gravity of this situation. it is a flaw in the current system that can be exploited for huge point gains. if a person had enough time he could get to #1 by playing strictly 1v1 terminator games. simply start 1000 games and play only those where you have a bonus or a good deployment and get to be the first to attack. 100% winning rate guaranteed.
simple math
you start at 1000 points with 1000 terminator 1v1 games. let's say you deadbeat in 700 games and win 300 (even though you could win a lot more) from those 300 wins for sure you'll get at least 3000 points that's an average of 10 points per win (totally normal considering you'll probably get 20+ when you start but only 5-6 points when you reach higher scores.
that brings you at 4000 points more than enough for the #1 rank.

a 1v1 game usually takes less than 10 turns to finish. but let's say it takes exactly 10 turns. at the average rate of 1 turn per day. you could play in portions of 100 games at a time (again a very possible thing considering other people play 200 games at a time) so you need 300 wins playing at a rate of 100 games at a time with each game lasting 10 days it means you'll finish the games in exactly 30 days. 1 month.

would it be normal to have a person hold the number 1 rank by sing this method?

[jako]

All this really proved is that

#1 folks can come to conquerclub.com, expect a fair game and what they get instead is unknowingly involved in an "experiment" run by self-important ninnies.

#2 the feedback system is almost entirely pointless since having you receive anything less than dozens of negative feedback means that almost no one cared about leaving well deserved negative feedback.

Bravo on finding this flaw. Hiss on not going through lack in the first place to get it remedied. Do you not find lack responsive enough on fixing things? This "experiment" just demonstrates to lack that he's in a no-win situation, either he:

* Stops or slows down innovation and faces complaints from folks wanting new features, or

* Innovates and has a gaggle of brats gunning to embarrass him publicly.

I'd ban you all for 6 months for this stunt.

the 1v1 terminator problem is well know and people have requested a change for quite some time. i decided to do this experiment to prove the gravity of this situation. it is a flaw in the current system that can be exploited for huge point gains. if a person had enough time he could get to #1 by playing strictly 1v1 terminator games. simply start 1000 games and play only those where you have a bonus or a good deployment and get to be the first to attack. 100% winning rate guaranteed.
simple math
you start at 1000 points with 1000 terminator 1v1 games. let's say you deadbeat in 700 games and win 300 (even though you could win a lot more) from those 300 wins for sure you'll get at least 3000 points that's an average of 10 points per win (totally normal considering you'll probably get 20+ when you start but only 5-6 points when you reach higher scores.
that brings you at 4000 points more than enough for the #1 rank.

a 1v1 game usually takes less than 10 turns to finish. but let's say it takes exactly 10 turns. at the average rate of 1 turn per day. you could play in portions of 100 games at a time (again a very possible thing considering other people play 200 games at a time) so you need 300 wins playing at a rate of 100 games at a time with each game lasting 10 days it means you'll finish the games in exactly 30 days. 1 month.

would it be normal to have a person hold the number 1 rank by sing this method?

check to see who is number 1 in one month's time DiM

[cleveridea]

You assume that Lack was not contacted.

I made no such claim. I claimed that you must be impatient and dissatisfied with lack's response time.

I'm not entirely sure how this stops or slows down future innovation.

Then you are naive in not understanding the effects of attempting to humiliate a developer publicly. But you weren't naive, were you? You could have just as easily laid out the theory with just as much clarity. You did it for real to punctuate the power you have to shame lack. Now, lack is a very understanding guy, and he probably won't react as if he's had people tugging at his drawers trying to expose his backside because he's probably dealt with unhelpful fucks like you in the past. He'll probably pat you on the head and say "thanks fellas for pointing that out"

And if I got banned, I'd just create a bunch of accounts and throw games on purpose. Make sure to take that to the cheating forum. You got rock solid evidence now.

That's already been settled, cheat away to your heart's content. I'm doing it, everyone's doing it.

[cleveridea]

the 1v1 terminator problem is well know and people have requested a change for quite some time. i decided to do this experiment to prove the gravity of this situation. it is a flaw in the current system that can be exploited for huge point gains. if a person had enough time he could get to #1 by playing strictly 1v1 terminator games. simply start 1000 games and play only those where you have a bonus or a good deployment and get to be the first to attack. 100% winning rate guaranteed.
simple math
you start at 1000 points with 1000 terminator 1v1 games. let's say you deadbeat in 700 games and win 300 (even though you could win a lot more) from those 300 wins for sure you'll get at least 3000 points that's an average of 10 points per win (totally normal considering you'll probably get 20+ when you start but only 5-6 points when you reach higher scores.
that brings you at 4000 points more than enough for the #1 rank.

a 1v1 game usually takes less than 10 turns to finish. but let's say it takes exactly 10 turns. at the average rate of 1 turn per day. you could play in portions of 100 games at a time (again a very possible thing considering other people play 200 games at a time) so you need 300 wins playing at a rate of 100 games at a time with each game lasting 10 days it means you'll finish the games in exactly 30 days. 1 month.

would it be normal to have a person hold the number 1 rank by sing this method?

You have made my point with this post. So you can articulate this defect with a concise and cogent theory without screwing the time of dozens of hapless victims. That's all you should have done. Your experiment was asinine and didn't do anything more to illuminate the issue that this post of theoretical facts did.

[cleveridea]

Then I'm really glad you aren't Lack.

Remember, I'm Cronus.

[treefiddy]

I made no such claim. I claimed that you must be impatient and dissatisfied with lack's response time.

You most certainly made that claim. It's clear as day in your post.

Hiss on not going through lack in the first place to get it remedied.

Then you are naive in not understanding the effects of attempting to humiliate a developer publicly. But you weren't naive, were you? You could have just as easily laid out the theory with just as much clarity. You did it for real to punctuate the power you have to shame lack. Now, lack is a very understanding guy, and he probably won't react as if he's had people tugging at his drawers trying to expose his backside because he's probably dealt with unhelpful fucks like you in the past. He'll probably pat you on the head and say "thanks fellas for pointing that out"

I'm not sure why you think Lack is a thin-skinned ninny who can't handle people pointing out flaws in the system. If I were him, I'd be more insulted that you feel that way about him than anything that we did. We all obviously support Lack and this system that he has built since all 5 of us have purchased premium accounts.

DiM did describe exactly what was possible. What we did was practice it to prove that it could be done. Part of what we did was to see if it worked more-so than pointing it out. The no-points deadbeat thing was already known.

[cleveridea]

Listen...exploiting a flaw in the software in practice at the expense innocent bystanders and then publicly proclaiming it to support "proving" a theory that was so god damn effortless to understand that it didn't need proving is not going through lack to get it resolved. It is pointless grandstanding. And,

I don't think lack is going to give a shit about this topic any more than he already does because your "experiment" added nothing to anyone's knowledge of what was wrong with the current state of things.

The fact you didn't understand that going into your experiment is sad. The fact that you don't know it now after some one has pointed it out is pathetic.

[El Scorcho]

I agree, youre a fucking clown, you didnt have to be an asshole to prove it......just doing it for the points, funny you are what you are bitching about

[treefiddy]

I really do hope everyone else finds the irony in your statement.

Out of all my deadbeated games, there was only one freebie who was at least cleared of the game after 3 days. That's still 2 days faster than than the game you decided to brag about when you were making a freebie wait for his turns. All while gloating about it to him in chat.

At this point it's just an agree to disagree. Since the announcement, we had a few people happy to see that someone was taking some action. I'm happy to know that some people see the benefit in what we did. Even some of the people I deadbeated out of games on responded positively to the experiment when I PM'd them with this thread.

[cleveridea]

If you cannot see the fundamental difference between you secretly screwing a random fool caught in the net of your experiment and my intentional and open attempt to piss some one off (while never deadbeating), then you are even more blind than I had previously assumed.

To top it off, I assumed complete responsibility for being wrong in my situation. You are still continuing to embrace the righteousness of yours.

[DiM]

the 1v1 terminator problem is well know and people have requested a change for quite some time. i decided to do this experiment to prove the gravity of this situation. it is a flaw in the current system that can be exploited for huge point gains. if a person had enough time he could get to #1 by playing strictly 1v1 terminator games. simply start 1000 games and play only those where you have a bonus or a good deployment and get to be the first to attack. 100% winning rate guaranteed.
simple math
you start at 1000 points with 1000 terminator 1v1 games. let's say you deadbeat in 700 games and win 300 (even though you could win a lot more) from those 300 wins for sure you'll get at least 3000 points that's an average of 10 points per win (totally normal considering you'll probably get 20+ when you start but only 5-6 points when you reach higher scores.
that brings you at 4000 points more than enough for the #1 rank.

a 1v1 game usually takes less than 10 turns to finish. but let's say it takes exactly 10 turns. at the average rate of 1 turn per day. you could play in portions of 100 games at a time (again a very possible thing considering other people play 200 games at a time) so you need 300 wins playing at a rate of 100 games at a time with each game lasting 10 days it means you'll finish the games in exactly 30 days. 1 month.

would it be normal to have a person hold the number 1 rank by sing this method?

You have made my point with this post. So you can articulate this defect with a concise and cogent theory without screwing the time of dozens of hapless victims. That's all you should have done. Your experiment was asinine and didn't do anything more to illuminate the issue that this post of theoretical facts did.

first of all this flaw in the system has been known for quite some time. numerous complaints have been made on this subject and nothing has been done to correct it.
second. the dozens of victims of this experiment are a very small portion of the total number of victims of the people that use this method on a daily basis to boost their scores.

it's easy to put a theory on paper and tell people something needs to be done. most of the times you'll just be ignored. but if you take matters into your own hands perhaps there's a chance somebody will see the gravity of the situation and do something.


some time ago i noticed another flaw in the system. the ignore list and battle royale. it is well know that if somebody is on your ignore list he can't join a game you are in.

well let's say i put everybody on my ignore list except for my closest friends. i wait until the BR comes and join fast this means nobody will be able to join besides me and my friends. is that normal? no. has something been done to prevent this? no. will something be done in the future? no, UNLESS i really do that ignore list thing and when thousands of people won't be able to join lots of complaints will appear and hopefully lack will do something.

[AndyDufresne]

The issue is known, and has been known. If we could magically fix everything wrong, we would.

Edit: Also the ignore list and battle royal issue is known, but since battle royals are still in beta testing, we will get to that later.


--Andy

[mightyredarmy]

I play lots of terminator games, so I thought the experiment was interesting and worthwhile, though you could have played the games amongst yourselves to avoid dragging others into it and picking up the bad feedback.

I guess you already know that alex white has tried a similar 'experiment' and has picked up 36 negatives so far for his troubles.

So I think the flaw* would be difficult to abuse in the long term as you'd simply build up too much negative feedback for people to be prepared to pick a game you set up

*and it is a flaw (too many people deadbeat in terminator games - I am currently playing a 6 player game on battle for australia in which it looks like 4 players will deadbeat - I haven't had a turn in 4/5 days)

[cleveridea]

first of all this flaw in the system has been known for quite some time. numerous complaints have been made on this subject and nothing has been done to correct it.

And your stunt advanced getting it corrected, how? I sincerely believe you when you think you've helped get this issue resolved by "raising consciousness" in some 60's hippie way. Only thing is, you see, it is obvious to the grown ups that there is no magic wand that fixes things. Do you think there's a magic wand, and there just hasn't been enough outrage to get that wand flapping on this issue?

second. the dozens of victims of this experiment are a very small portion of the total number of victims of the people that use this method on a daily basis to boost their scores.

Say someone cuts off your thumb this afternoon for no good reason. Because your single victimization is such a a drop in the bucket - in terms of the total assualts and batteries happening in the world today - then you didn't really get attacked unjustly? As long as the butcher that got you is doing his best to "prove" his theory that knives cut flesh and need to be removed from society?

it's easy to put a theory on paper and tell people something needs to be done. most of the times you'll just be ignored.

That is indeed true. But, in order to mature you have to accept that.

In order to get your way you must accept that the right thing to do is try harder, try again and again and make your point more intelligently than you did before. Hurting innocent people (even only a little as you did) who can't fix your problem and trying to shame good people (who don't owe you an instant solution) who can fix your problem isn't the right thing to do - even were it effective.

Here's the kicker...sometimes even if you do it the right way you will still get ignored.

[DiM]

I play lots of terminator games, so I thought the experiment was interesting and worthwhile, though you could have played the games amongst yourselves to avoid dragging others into it and picking up the bad feedback.

I guess you already know that alex white has tried a similar 'experiment' and has picked up 36 negatives so far for his troubles.

So I think the flaw* would be difficult to abuse in the long term as you'd simply build up too much negative feedback for people to be prepared to pick a game you set up

*and it is a flaw (too many people deadbeat in terminator games - I am currently playing a 6 player game on battle for australia in which it looks like 4 players will deadbeat - I haven't had a turn in 4/5 days)

i too play mostly terminator games. in 6 players it's not a problem if 4 people deadbeat. i've been in that situation. simply destroy the only active player and leave him with just 1 terit. then go on and kill the deadbeats for points and lastly finish the only active guy besides you.

as for the feedback, belive me there are plenty of noobs outhere that will join your games regardless of your feedback

[DiM]

first of all this flaw in the system has been known for quite some time. numerous complaints have been made on this subject and nothing has been done to correct it.

And your stunt advanced getting it corrected, how? I sincerely believe you when you think you've helped get this issue resolved by "raising consciousness" in some 60's hippie way. Only thing is, you see, it is obvious to the grown ups that there is no magic wand that fixes things. Do you think there's a magic wand, and there just hasn't been enough outrage to get that wand flapping on this issue?

the solution is really simple just a few lines of code that block the creation of 1v1 games just the same as 5 player doubles aren't possible.
the fact that it hasn't been solved proves that perhaps this subject didn't have enough attention. the experiment is trying to get this in the spotlight.

second. the dozens of victims of this experiment are a very small portion of the total number of victims of the people that use this method on a daily basis to boost their scores.

Say someone cuts off your thumb this afternoon for no good reason. Because your single victimization is such a a drop in the bucket - in terms of the total assualts and batteries happening in the world today - then you didn't really get attacked unjustly? As long as the butcher that got you is doing his best to "prove" his theory that knives cut flesh and need to be removed from society?

if by cutting my thumb that person will manage to make the world abandon all violence then i'd be more than happy to get it cut.

it's easy to put a theory on paper and tell people something needs to be done. most of the times you'll just be ignored.

That is indeed true. But, in order to mature you have to accept that.

In order to get your way you must accept that the right thing to do is try harder, try again and again and make your point more intelligently than you did before. Hurting innocent people (even only a little as you did) who can't fix your problem and trying to shame good people (who don't owe you an instant solution) who can fix your problem isn't the right thing to do - even were it effective.

Here's the kicker...sometimes even if you do it the right way you will still get ignored.

i'm not trying to shame anybody. don't know what made you think that.
as for the victims i already said i apologiezed

[Blitzaholic]

The issue is known, and has been known. If we could magically fix everything wrong, we would.

Edit: Also the ignore list and battle royal issue is known, but since battle royals are still in beta testing, we will get to that later.


--Andy

just cancel the terminator option for now so no one can play terminator games until resolved, geez, this is messed up guys.

[The1exile]

The issue is known, and has been known. If we could magically fix everything wrong, we would.

Edit: Also the ignore list and battle royal issue is known, but since battle royals are still in beta testing, we will get to that later.


--Andy

just cancel the terminator option for now so no one can play terminator games until resolved, geez, this is messed up guys.

Not terminator in general, but as DiM says, 1vs1 terminator.

[DiM]

The issue is known, and has been known. If we could magically fix everything wrong, we would.

Edit: Also the ignore list and battle royal issue is known, but since battle royals are still in beta testing, we will get to that later.


--Andy

just cancel the terminator option for now so no one can play terminator games until resolved, geez, this is messed up guys.

they don't need to cancel terminator games.

there are 2 options very easy to implement.

1. if a player deadbeats in terminator games, the points go to the last man standing. - best option in my opinion
2. cancel the option of 1v1 terminator but leave the rest.

[Gilligan]

1v1 terminator is the same thing as 1v1 standard except for the deadbeation.

[JOHNNYROCKET24]

finally something that someone spent more time on than Robinette figuring out a chart

[willis]

The issue is known, and has been known. If we could magically fix everything wrong, we would.

Edit: Also the ignore list and battle royal issue is known, but since battle royals are still in beta testing, we will get to that later.


--Andy

just cancel the terminator option for now so no one can play terminator games until resolved, geez, this is messed up guys.

they don't need to cancel terminator games.

there are 2 options very easy to implement.

1. if a player deadbeats in terminator games, the points go to the last man standing. - best option in my opinion
2. cancel the option of 1v1 terminator but leave the rest.

And 1v1 assasin

[lackattack]

Okay, no more 2-player terminator or assassin. Thanks fellas for pointing that out.

There is still a larger issue of terminator deadbeats and I invite you all to discuss proposed solutions here.