Macedonian map?

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Re: Macedonian map?

Postby natty dread on Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:29 pm

Oh really? There are 105 greek players on this site. Why are you the only one throwing a hissy fit about it? I think Macedonians should have the right to decide what to call their country. The guy who made the map was a Macedonian, FYI. If calling his country Macedonia was an issue for Macedonians I doubt he would have named the map as such.

If the map had a subtitle like "Macedonia - the land of impotent donkeyhumpers" then I could understand you getting upset. But you're actually upset over it being called Macedonia. :roll:

Everyone knows what Macedonia is. No one knows or cares what is "FYROM". So when we have a map featuring a geographical area that most people know as "Macedonia" it makes a lot of sense to name that map "Macedonia", if you really really think about it.

Really, the only way you could get offended by it is that you are actually looking to get offended by something...

Something interesting:

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The red countries are the only ones using the term "FYROM".

To me, it seems this whole "FYROM" thing is just Greece acting like an asshole of a country. Get over it, Greeks. Deal with your crappy economy before you try to go renaming other countries.
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Re: Macedonian map?

Postby MrBenn on Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:38 pm

oneEyedOldMan wrote:
MrBenn wrote:Perhaps you could outline in more detail the nature of your complaint/concern?




the nature of my concern is the illegal use of the name macedonia while the oficial name of this country is still F.Y.R.O.M.
that problem keeps spreading out on the internet and in the common life,and its a rape of the greek history

i would be gratfull if the moderators discuss about this issue which is very sensitive.

oneEyedOldMan,

Many thanks for adding some clarity regarding your concern.

Maps on this site are community-developed. The mapmaking process is an arduous and lengthy one - and during map development, authors are expected to respond to concerns that the community raise. During the six months or so that the Macedonia map was in development (as far as I recall), nobody raised concerns about the naming of the map, and there was therefore no discussion regarding it. There are many areas of the world where political boundaries and region names are under dispute, and cartography (both int he real-world and for online world-domination games) can be fraught with controversy.

Had any objection to the map name been raised whilst the map was in development, then the author would have been expected to respond to these concerns. However, now that the map has been completed it falls to me (as Foundry Foreman) to act as an arbiter, and to decide whether the mapmaker should be asked to make any changes.

While you are correct in stating that "Macedonia" is not an officially recognised country, as far as i can discern, FYROM was only a provisional name that has generally been superceded by The Republic of Macedonia. While I am aware that there are political sensitivities to consider, map titles are usually designated to help people find any given map, and in this instance, I believe that "Macedonia" is more user-friendly than "Republic of..." or "Former Yugoslav...". I have duly noted your opinion, and will bear it in mind should there be further concerns raised with this regard.

I would warmly encourage you to lend your support to other maps that are currently in development, and can but apologise for the hostility that other members of the community have shown you.

--MrBenn
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Re: Macedonian map?

Postby oneEyedOldMan on Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:03 pm

MrBenn i understand your position,and i dont expect to change the names.
i had to say those things that bothered me,and i thank you for your reply








natty_dread,by saying that no one knows about the F.Y.R.O.M. problem you expose yourself.
it is very funny to talk about our "shitty" economy while the economy in finland has completely broke down...
i forgot to mention that all the people in finland are russian slaves,and the territory of finland is russian...
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Re: Macedonian map?

Postby natty dread on Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:16 pm

oneEyedOldMan wrote:natty_dread,by saying that no one knows about the F.Y.R.O.M. problem you expose yourself.
it is very funny to talk about our "shitty" economy while the economy in finland has completely broke down...
i forgot to mention that all the people in finland are russian slaves,and the territory of finland is russian...


Wow, you are really clueless. Don't talk about things you don't know shit about. :-$

Funny that you talk about how "offending" you find a map called Macedonia, and then you yourself throw slander like that to other nations. An analogy of pots and kettles comes to mind... :roll:
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Re: Macedonian map?

Postby oneEyedOldMan on Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:49 pm

natty_dread wrote:
oneEyedOldMan wrote:natty_dread,by saying that no one knows about the F.Y.R.O.M. problem you expose yourself.
it is very funny to talk about our "shitty" economy while the economy in finland has completely broke down...
i forgot to mention that all the people in finland are russian slaves,and the territory of finland is russian...


Wow, you are really clueless. Don't talk about things you don't know shit about. :-$

Funny that you talk about how "offending" you find a map called Macedonia, and then you yourself throw slander like that to other nations. An analogy of pots and kettles comes to mind... :roll:



i offended your country because i report your post but rdsrds2120 told me he cant do something,because you didnt offend me but my country which is allowed...you can see in previous posts who is the clueless,when i spoke you really nice and you were throwing insults...

if you like funny things read this.you wrote me "Don't talk about things you don't know shit about.".you did the same when you wrote "Everyone knows what Macedonia is. No one knows or cares what is "FYROM""


i dont know how old are you (maybe not even 10) but i will not bother further talking to you
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Re: Macedonian map?

Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:07 pm

Natty, oneeyeyedoldman, lets keep the personal attacks and flaming out of here. No one particularly wants to hear about the economies of your respective nations and/or related discussion data. ;)

=============================

MrBenn's response spot on. If someone had brought up an issue with the name during the development process of the map, it would have been addressed and responded to in some fashion. For now, Benn and the Foundry have noted the issue position. :)


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Re: Macedonian map?

Postby koul on Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:49 pm

hi i want to put my opinion in this i m greek like one eye and i think that the name of this map is not the desirable its not the official name of this country as you know the name is still F Y R O M so please you have to be more carefull in national issues like this (hot potato)
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Re: Macedonian map?

Postby psaxnoulis on Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:02 am

By the way, once we talk about maps, here's one from the UN site: (http://www.un.org -> http://www.un.org/Depts/Cartographic/map/profile/easteuro.pdf). And here's the member states: http://www.un.org/en/members/index.shtml
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Re: Macedonian map?

Postby MrBenn on Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:32 pm

psaxnoulis wrote:By the way, once we talk about maps, here's one from the UN site: (http://www.un.org -> http://www.un.org/Depts/Cartographic/map/profile/easteuro.pdf). And here's the member states: http://www.un.org/en/members/index.shtml

UN wrote:The boundaries and names shown and the designations
used on this map do not imply official endorsement or
acceptance by the United Nations.
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Re: Macedonian map?

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:39 pm

Right. There are probably literally tons of people who dislike the naming of something geographic---here on Conquer Club or in the real world. There are probably some Irish who dislike being lumped in to the 'British Isles' map.

Or on the 'Europe' map where certain areas are highlighted over others, like Belgium over the Netherlands. No one is out to get Ireland, or the Netherlands, the naming conventions were chosen mostly for clarity and ease of use.


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Re: Macedonian map?

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:11 pm

The Greeks probably didn't like the Roman's either... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_ ... rovince%29
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Re: Macedonian map?

Postby oneEyedOldMan on Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:19 am

AndyDufresne wrote:Right. There are probably literally tons of people who dislike the naming of something geographic---here on Conquer Club or in the real world. There are probably some Irish who dislike being lumped in to the 'British Isles' map.

Or on the 'Europe' map where certain areas are highlighted over others, like Belgium over the Netherlands. No one is out to get Ireland, or the Netherlands, the naming conventions were chosen mostly for clarity and ease of use.


--Andy



so,you mean that the maps in conquer club are imaginary and they dont represent the real borders and countries names? :?
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Re: Macedonian map?

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:00 pm

No, what we're trying to say is that the maps on ConquerClub can represent the countries, but if they represent a real country they certainly are NOT an official source and they are NOT published on a site that represents an official political or legislative source of any kind. I understand your thoughts, but I want to remind you that this is only a game site. Probably the best one on the web, but it's just a game site. ;)

Reread what MrBenn wrote,it is a very comprehensive post.

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Re: Macedonian map?

Postby oneEyedOldMan on Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:26 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:No, what we're trying to say is that the maps on ConquerClub can represent the countries, but if they represent a real country they certainly are NOT an official source and they are NOT published on a site that represents an official political or legislative source of any kind. I understand your thoughts, but I want to remind you that this is only a game site. Probably the best one on the web, but it's just a game site. ;)

Reread what MrBenn wrote,it is a very comprehensive post.



i agree with you that the site is not an official source and its just a game.

but the damage in the Macedonian issue had been done from simple everyday uses of the Macedonian name to describe FYROM ...the result of this continuous mistake had passed to many people worldwide the belief that fyrom's name is macedonia.

AndyDufresne says "the naming conventions were chosen mostly for clarity and ease of use." ...is it clarity and ease of use the use of incorrect names?thats what i am talking about above,when i say
"the result of this continuous mistake had passed to many people worldwide the belief that fyrom's name is macedonia"
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Re: Macedonian map?

Postby Industrial Helix on Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:04 pm

Forgive me for playing devil's advocate... but isn't the FYROM within the boundaries of several historic forms of Macedonia? Notably the one I linked above, the Romans? I know they're a different ethnic and language group, but they're still within the same land territory that is traditionally Macedonia.

It's like how I'm an Ohioan but I'm not Iroquois...
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