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[Baron Von PWN]

Gary Johnson 88%
Then Ron Paul.

Of course in Massachusetts my Presidential votes doesn't matter... because we are surely going for Obama.

I have historically voted Libertarian even though he has no shot... because Mass. goes for Democrat and so my Libertarian vote is a "protest" vote.

Hey I'm going to be moving to mass within the next year or so! We could be neighbours jim. I'm sure you're pleased.

[jimboston]

Hey I'm going to be moving to mass within the next year or so! We could be neighbours jim. I'm sure you're pleased.

You'll fit right in... I suggest you consider Cambridge.

[Baron Von PWN]

Hey I'm going to be moving to mass within the next year or so! We could be neighbours jim. I'm sure you're pleased.

You'll fit right in... I suggest you consider Cambridge.

I will be in the new bedford area.

[saxitoxin]

Gary Johnson 88%
Then Ron Paul.

Of course in Massachusetts my Presidential votes doesn't matter... because we are surely going for Obama.

I have historically voted Libertarian even though he has no shot... because Mass. goes for Democrat and so my Libertarian vote is a "protest" vote.

Hey I'm going to be moving to mass within the next year or so! We could be neighbours jim. I'm sure you're pleased.

Russia, Georgia, Massachusetts ... Baron - you're hitting all the third world hellholes.

[Phatscotty]

I wonder who would become president if everyone in America took this test then voted accordingly...

-rd

Well, if we take our poll results and extrapolate, then it looks as if Paul would win by a narrow margin, followed closely with Stein.

I know everybody thinks that voting for a third candidate party is wasting their vote, but if the majority of Americans happen to agree most with a third party candidate, then why not vote for that candidate? Then the vote wouldn't be wasted. I guess whoever puts in the vote at the Electoral College could just change the vote, but the candidate would win the popular election at least.

That's the problem. They call it "wasted vote syndrome".

It's basically a logical fallacy.

It makes no sense to vote for somebody you only partially agree with when there is a candidate that you almost fully agree with. I just don't understand why somebody would vote for "the lesser of two evils" over the person that they want to win, even if that could be considered "wasting your vote." Doing so, in my opinion, is the true waste of a vote.

The reason why it makes sense is because it makes less sense to vote for someone or a party who consistently registers less than 4% of the vote, especially when most elections are decided by about 4%. I understand your philosophy 100%. Your point here today is my points from previous elections, when I was voting for Ralph Nader and writing in Ron Paul.

Also, I know it sucks voting for the lesser of two evils. I agree with everything you said, but I realize because of that reality, the only option for us to get someone who is not just the lesser of two evils, is through the primary/caucus process on the state level. That is what we tried to do with Ron Paul this time, and we did make an impact that will be felt for a generation, and Ron Paul IS up for nomination at the convention. He's got about a .1% chance to win, but what the point is here is that until our voting populace starts really getting involved (a bit more than spending 10 minutes voting once every 4 years), we are always only going to be have to choose from the lesser of two evils, or sit out.

This said, we have a choice this November. Mitt Romney or Barack Obama. They are similar, but one is better than the other. Bottom line, the time to bitch about the lesser of two evils is during the primary/caucus process. After that, there is nothing we can do until Americans start getting serious about this and go wayyyy out of their way to spend another 30 minutes voting at a caucus/primary once every 4 years, on top of the 10 minutes we spend voting at elections once every 4 years.

[saxitoxin]

I wonder who would become president if everyone in America took this test then voted accordingly...

-rd

Well, if we take our poll results and extrapolate, then it looks as if Paul would win by a narrow margin, followed closely with Stein.

I know everybody thinks that voting for a third candidate party is wasting their vote, but if the majority of Americans happen to agree most with a third party candidate, then why not vote for that candidate? Then the vote wouldn't be wasted. I guess whoever puts in the vote at the Electoral College could just change the vote, but the candidate would win the popular election at least.

That's the problem. They call it "wasted vote syndrome".

It's basically a logical fallacy.

It makes no sense to vote for somebody you only partially agree with when there is a candidate that you almost fully agree with. I just don't understand why somebody would vote for "the lesser of two evils" over the person that they want to win, even if that could be considered "wasting your vote." Doing so, in my opinion, is the true waste of a vote.

The reason why it makes sense is because it makes less sense to vote for someone or a party who consistently registers less than 4% of the vote, especially when most elections are decided by about 4%. I understand your philosophy 100%. Your point here today is my points from previous elections, when I was voting for Ralph Nader and writing in Ron Paul.

Also, I know it sucks voting for the lesser of two evils. I agree with everything you said, but I realize because of that reality, the only option for us to get someone who is not just the lesser of two evils, is through the primary/caucus process on the state level. That is what we tried to do with Ron Paul this time, and we did make an impact that will be felt for a generation, and Ron Paul IS up for nomination at the convention. He's got about a .1% chance to win, but what the point is here is that until our voting populace starts really getting involved (a bit more than spending 10 minutes voting once every 4 years), we are always only going to be have to choose from the lesser of two evils, or sit out.

This said, we have a choice this November. Mitt Romney or Barack Obama. They are similar, but one is better than the other. Bottom line, the time to bitch about the lesser of two evils is during the primary/caucus process. After that, there is nothing we can do until Americans start getting serious about this and go wayyyy out of their way to spend another 30 minutes voting at a caucus/primary once every 4 years, on top of the 10 minutes we spend voting at elections once every 4 years.

Didn't Gary Johnson win the Libertarian Party primary/caucus process on the state level?

[Phatscotty]

I suppose (idk) but trust me, if the Libertarian party were a major tier party with the money and access to have a shot at winning, that post would not exist and I would be voting for Gary Johnson. However, I've cast my lot for the time being with Libertarians highjacking the Republican Party. That is a much more realistic battle to fight IMO. It's much easier to transform the Republicans and use their infrastructure and their platform to advance our agenda than it is to build a major party from scratch.

[saxitoxin]

I suppose (idk) but trust me, if the Libertarian party were a major tier party with the money and access to have a shot at winning, that post would not exist and I would be voting for Gary Johnson. However, I've cast my lot for the time being with Libertarians highjacking the Republican Party. That is a much more realistic battle to fight IMO. It's much easier to transform the Republicans and use their infrastructure and their platform to advance our agenda than it is to build a major party from scratch.

If Gary Johnson receives 5-percent of the national popular vote, the Libertarian Party will get $18.2 million of retroactive grants from the Federal Election Commission (to put it in perspective, Gary Johnson has raised $1.2 million so far). That would give them the resources to potentially propel them into major party status overnight.

[Phatscotty]

I suppose (idk) but trust me, if the Libertarian party were a major tier party with the money and access to have a shot at winning, that post would not exist and I would be voting for Gary Johnson. However, I've cast my lot for the time being with Libertarians highjacking the Republican Party. That is a much more realistic battle to fight IMO. It's much easier to transform the Republicans and use their infrastructure and their platform to advance our agenda than it is to build a major party from scratch.

If Gary Johnson receives 5-percent of the national popular vote, the Libertarian Party will get $18.2 million of retroactive grants from the Federal Election Commission (to put it in perspective, Gary Johnson has raised $1.2 million so far). That would give them the resources to potentially propel them into major party status overnight.

Yes, I am well aware. We did the same thing for Jesse Ventura when he was elected governor here. He founded his own party, and after he left sure they had more money and access than before, and the next election the independence party got a a lot more support than usual (guessing it was 16%) on the governorship race, and it has dwindled ever since. The third party is still strong here and it gets over 5% virtually every election, but here is where the rubber meets the road for me.

The Third Party candidate in 2010 got 6,000 votes, the Tea Party candidate lost by 5,000 votes.

Result? Elitist Billionaire Democrat Governor Mark Dayton, from the Dayton's Dynasty, and this guy was throwing his fundraisers out of George Soro's Condo during the campaign. The Tea Party here won the supermajority of the House and the Senate, we should be living in a Tea Party nirvana right now. Ask those 6,000 people who voted for the third party how they wish they would have voted now that they see the results, I am confident most of them would prefer to have the Congress working with a Tea Party governor, rather than the Democrat Billionaire who blocks the Tea Party every chance he gets, legally or otherwise.

The point I am making is sometimes we do in fact need to look at the possible consequences of our potential actions. That is exactly how Americans should vote for Congress most of the time (depending on who the President is).

If Romney wins, we have a chance. I will be happy to explain (just not right now) how we could potentially make the most out of that chance. Breifly, the Occupy movement will have to make a compromise with the Tea Party movement, and it will be as epic as the compromise that the North had to make with the Slave-owning South, as that was the only way they would be able to stand against the tyranny of King George and have a chance to be free and even have the chance to end slavery, since If England won the war, it would have been extremely likely that King George would have expanded the slave trade to the Northern Colonies as well, and make America a nation of slaves no matter what color or what state/"territory" one was in.

If Obama wins, America and the Constitution will have been officially and permanently "fundamentally transformed".


The question for 2012 is pretty simple. Do you want the fundamental transformation of the United States to continue, or not.

[saxitoxin]

If Romney wins, we have a chance. I will be happy to explain (just not right now) how we could potentially make the most out of that chance. Breifly, the Occupy movement will have to make a compromise with the Tea Party movement, and it will be as epic as the compromise that the North had to make with the Slave-owning South, as that was the only way they would be able to stand against the tyranny of King George and have a chance to be free and even have the chance to end slavery, since If England won the war, it would have been extremely likely that King George would have expanded the slave trade to the Northern Colonies as well, and make America a nation of slaves no matter what color or what state/"territory" one was in.

But will it be as epic as the compromise between the Hobbits and the Ents?

[Maugena]

Gary Johnson 88%
Then Ron Paul.

Of course in Massachusetts my Presidential votes doesn't matter... because we are surely going for Obama.

I have historically voted Libertarian even though he has no shot... because Mass. goes for Democrat and so my Libertarian vote is a "protest" vote.

Hey I'm going to be moving to mass within the next year or so! We could be neighbours jim. I'm sure you're pleased.

Russia, Georgia, Massachusetts ... Baron - you're hitting all the third world hellholes.

LOL

If Romney wins, we have a chance. I will be happy to explain (just not right now) how we could potentially make the most out of that chance. Breifly, the Occupy movement will have to make a compromise with the Tea Party movement, and it will be as epic as the compromise that the North had to make with the Slave-owning South, as that was the only way they would be able to stand against the tyranny of King George and have a chance to be free and even have the chance to end slavery, since If England won the war, it would have been extremely likely that King George would have expanded the slave trade to the Northern Colonies as well, and make America a nation of slaves no matter what color or what state/"territory" one was in.

LOL

[MeDeFe]

If Romney wins, we have a chance. I will be happy to explain (just not right now) how we could potentially make the most out of that chance. Breifly, the Occupy movement will have to make a compromise with the Tea Party movement, and it will be as epic as the compromise that the North had to make with the Slave-owning South, as that was the only way they would be able to stand against the tyranny of King George and have a chance to be free and even have the chance to end slavery, since If England won the war, it would have been extremely likely that King George would have expanded the slave trade to the Northern Colonies as well, and make America a nation of slaves no matter what color or what state/"territory" one was in.

Sounds pretty "hopey-changey" if you ask me.

[thegreekdog]

jb - I have the same problem with New Jersey. Since New Jersey almost always votes Democrat for president, I'm going to continue voting Libertarian.

[Army of GOD]

wait, scotty, you support Romney?

c'mon, Romney is the opposite of what the Tea Party stands for. Go balls to the wall and vote Gary Johnson.

[saxitoxin]

However, I've cast my lot for the time being with Libertarians highjacking the Republican Party. That is a much more realistic battle to fight IMO.

This and future hijackings averted. The SWAT team has stormed the plane. Situation in Tampa reported normal. Alpha Team Leader Romney reports all remaining Paul forces neutralized. Mop-up actions commencing.

Several members of the Maine delegation walked out of the Tampa Bay Times Forum after the convention affirmed the GOP’s decision to replace 10 of Maine’s 24 delegates.

... the decision to not seat the original Maine delegation, and the approval of rules that will make it harder for grass-roots-fueled candidates in the future, caused an uproar in the handful of state delegations dominated by Paul supporters, as well as some others that are concerned about the GOP centralizing power in the hands of a few and taking it away from the states.

Wiselot Rouzard, a delegate from Nevada and a Paul supporter, compared the situation to Adolf Hitler taking power in Germany.

“There’s nothing American about what just happened,” he said. “This is the death of the Republican Party.”

As the roll call of states commenced, several states listed votes for both Romney and Paul. When repeating back the count, those at the podium cited only the Romney votes.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la ... Stories%29

LMAO:

As the roll call of states commenced, several states listed votes for both Romney and Paul. When repeating back the count, those at the podium cited only the Romney votes.

[Phatscotty]

wait, scotty, you support Romney?

c'mon, Romney is the opposite of what the Tea Party stands for. Go balls to the wall and vote Gary Johnson.

I do not support Romney.

I oppose Obama

[Phatscotty]

However, I've cast my lot for the time being with Libertarians highjacking the Republican Party. That is a much more realistic battle to fight IMO.

This and future hijackings averted. The SWAT team has stormed the plane. Situation in Tampa reported normal. Alpha Team Leader Romney reports all remaining Paul forces neutralized. Mop-up actions commencing.

Several members of the Maine delegation walked out of the Tampa Bay Times Forum after the convention affirmed the GOP’s decision to replace 10 of Maine’s 24 delegates.

... the decision to not seat the original Maine delegation, and the approval of rules that will make it harder for grass-roots-fueled candidates in the future, caused an uproar in the handful of state delegations dominated by Paul supporters, as well as some others that are concerned about the GOP centralizing power in the hands of a few and taking it away from the states.

Wiselot Rouzard, a delegate from Nevada and a Paul supporter, compared the situation to Adolf Hitler taking power in Germany.

“There’s nothing American about what just happened,” he said. “This is the death of the Republican Party.”

As the roll call of states commenced, several states listed votes for both Romney and Paul. When repeating back the count, those at the podium cited only the Romney votes.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la ... Stories%29

LMAO:

As the roll call of states commenced, several states listed votes for both Romney and Paul. When repeating back the count, those at the podium cited only the Romney votes.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=177477#p3875004

The fight continues

[Woodruff]

However, I've cast my lot for the time being with Libertarians highjacking the Republican Party. That is a much more realistic battle to fight IMO.

This and future hijackings averted. The SWAT team has stormed the plane. Situation in Tampa reported normal. Alpha Team Leader Romney reports all remaining Paul forces neutralized. Mop-up actions commencing.

Several members of the Maine delegation walked out of the Tampa Bay Times Forum after the convention affirmed the GOP’s decision to replace 10 of Maine’s 24 delegates.

... the decision to not seat the original Maine delegation, and the approval of rules that will make it harder for grass-roots-fueled candidates in the future, caused an uproar in the handful of state delegations dominated by Paul supporters, as well as some others that are concerned about the GOP centralizing power in the hands of a few and taking it away from the states.

Wiselot Rouzard, a delegate from Nevada and a Paul supporter, compared the situation to Adolf Hitler taking power in Germany.

“There’s nothing American about what just happened,” he said. “This is the death of the Republican Party.”

As the roll call of states commenced, several states listed votes for both Romney and Paul. When repeating back the count, those at the podium cited only the Romney votes.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la ... Stories%29

LMAO:

As the roll call of states commenced, several states listed votes for both Romney and Paul. When repeating back the count, those at the podium cited only the Romney votes.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=177477#p3875004

The fight continues

How does it feel being a sucker? Libertarian, my ass.

[Dukasaur]

However, I've cast my lot for the time being with Libertarians highjacking the Republican Party. That is a much more realistic battle to fight IMO.

This and future hijackings averted. The SWAT team has stormed the plane. Situation in Tampa reported normal. Alpha Team Leader Romney reports all remaining Paul forces neutralized. Mop-up actions commencing.

Several members of the Maine delegation walked out of the Tampa Bay Times Forum after the convention affirmed the GOP’s decision to replace 10 of Maine’s 24 delegates.

... the decision to not seat the original Maine delegation, and the approval of rules that will make it harder for grass-roots-fueled candidates in the future, caused an uproar in the handful of state delegations dominated by Paul supporters, as well as some others that are concerned about the GOP centralizing power in the hands of a few and taking it away from the states.

Wiselot Rouzard, a delegate from Nevada and a Paul supporter, compared the situation to Adolf Hitler taking power in Germany.

“There’s nothing American about what just happened,” he said. “This is the death of the Republican Party.”

As the roll call of states commenced, several states listed votes for both Romney and Paul. When repeating back the count, those at the podium cited only the Romney votes.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la ... Stories%29

LMAO:

As the roll call of states commenced, several states listed votes for both Romney and Paul. When repeating back the count, those at the podium cited only the Romney votes.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=177477#p3875004

The fight continues

How does it feel being a sucker? Libertarian, my ass.

It's just so, so, terribly sad. For seventy years this charade has gone on, and still the libertarians fall for it. The Republicans pepper their rhetoric with a few libertarian-sounding phrases, and the libertarians, desperate to climb out of obscurity, come running like pet dogs from the back yard.

f*ck it really makes me want to cry.

For seventy years Republicans have talked about cutting back the size of government, reducing taxes, cutting red tape, getting the government out of people's lives, and all the things that libertarians love to hear. None of them has actually done so, but that doesn't stop the next one from talking about it and reeling in some more fish, so certain that it will be different this time.

Deal with reality as it is, not as you wish it would be!!!

"Against man's stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain."

[thegreekdog]

I approve of Dukasaur's message.

[Mr_Adams]

However, I've cast my lot for the time being with Libertarians highjacking the Republican Party. That is a much more realistic battle to fight IMO.

This and future hijackings averted. The SWAT team has stormed the plane. Situation in Tampa reported normal. Alpha Team Leader Romney reports all remaining Paul forces neutralized. Mop-up actions commencing.

Several members of the Maine delegation walked out of the Tampa Bay Times Forum after the convention affirmed the GOP’s decision to replace 10 of Maine’s 24 delegates.

... the decision to not seat the original Maine delegation, and the approval of rules that will make it harder for grass-roots-fueled candidates in the future, caused an uproar in the handful of state delegations dominated by Paul supporters, as well as some others that are concerned about the GOP centralizing power in the hands of a few and taking it away from the states.

Wiselot Rouzard, a delegate from Nevada and a Paul supporter, compared the situation to Adolf Hitler taking power in Germany.

“There’s nothing American about what just happened,” he said. “This is the death of the Republican Party.”

As the roll call of states commenced, several states listed votes for both Romney and Paul. When repeating back the count, those at the podium cited only the Romney votes.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la ... Stories%29

LMAO:

As the roll call of states commenced, several states listed votes for both Romney and Paul. When repeating back the count, those at the podium cited only the Romney votes.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=177477#p3875004

The fight continues

How does it feel being a sucker? Libertarian, my ass.

It's just so, so, terribly sad. For seventy years this charade has gone on, and still the libertarians fall for it. The Republicans pepper their rhetoric with a few libertarian-sounding phrases, and the libertarians, desperate to climb out of obscurity, come running like pet dogs from the back yard.

f*ck it really makes me want to cry.

For seventy years Republicans have talked about cutting back the size of government, reducing taxes, cutting red tape, getting the government out of people's lives, and all the things that libertarians love to hear. None of them has actually done so, but that doesn't stop the next one from talking about it and reeling in some more fish, so certain that it will be different this time.

Deal with reality as it is, not as you wish it would be!!!

"Against man's stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain."

Those moments when CC needs a FB style "like" button

[BigBallinStalin]

However, I've cast my lot for the time being with Libertarians highjacking the Republican Party. That is a much more realistic battle to fight IMO.

This and future hijackings averted. The SWAT team has stormed the plane. Situation in Tampa reported normal. Alpha Team Leader Romney reports all remaining Paul forces neutralized. Mop-up actions commencing.

Several members of the Maine delegation walked out of the Tampa Bay Times Forum after the convention affirmed the GOP’s decision to replace 10 of Maine’s 24 delegates.

... the decision to not seat the original Maine delegation, and the approval of rules that will make it harder for grass-roots-fueled candidates in the future, caused an uproar in the handful of state delegations dominated by Paul supporters, as well as some others that are concerned about the GOP centralizing power in the hands of a few and taking it away from the states.

Wiselot Rouzard, a delegate from Nevada and a Paul supporter, compared the situation to Adolf Hitler taking power in Germany.

“There’s nothing American about what just happened,” he said. “This is the death of the Republican Party.”

As the roll call of states commenced, several states listed votes for both Romney and Paul. When repeating back the count, those at the podium cited only the Romney votes.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la ... Stories%29

LMAO:

As the roll call of states commenced, several states listed votes for both Romney and Paul. When repeating back the count, those at the podium cited only the Romney votes.

Yeah but voting holds politicians accountable! It's so effective because we have free elections, and the Watchmen are Angels! You can try to prove me wrong all you want, but that is no match for my amazing capacity to ignore facts and recreate reality. Good luck!

[BigBallinStalin]

Watch as I prove saxi wrong:

<stands up, waves arms around>

And screams,

"NOOOO!!! UR WRONG!!!"


I rest my case.

[AndyDufresne]

Watch as I prove saxi wrong:

<stands up, waves arms around>

And screams,

"NOOOO!!! UR WRONG!!!"


I rest my case.

BBS 2012!




--Andy

[jay_a2j]

95%
Ron Paul
Ron Paul

on economic, foreign policy, domestic policy, healthcare, immigration, and science issues

91%
Gary Johnson
Gary Johnson

on economic, foreign policy, domestic policy, healthcare, environmental, and science issues

88%
Mitt Romney
Mitt Romney

on economic, domestic policy, social, immigration, environmental, and healthcare issues

37%
Barack Obama
Barack Obama

on foreign policy issues

43%
New York Voters

on foreign policy, domestic policy, and healthcare issues.

48%
American Voters

on foreign policy, domestic policy, and healthcare issues.