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oss spy wrote:Oh...so that's the angle that they're playing at? If this is the case, then I'm just going to leave this thread for fifty pages like I did last time.
crispybits wrote:What is logic Mets? (serious question though it may seem spurious - I would say that just like causality all those pages back logic cannot be said to be definitely true outside of a logical universe - supernatural things could easily be entirely illogical)
saxitoxin wrote:Your position is more complex than the federal tax code. As soon as I think I understand it, I find another index of cross-references, exceptions and amendments I have to apply.
Timminz wrote:Yo mama is so classless, she could be a Marxist utopia.
Gillipig wrote:I present to you evidence of our lord and saviors existence! Just look at this tortilla bread:
jonesthecurl wrote:Gillipig wrote:I present to you evidence of our lord and saviors existence! Just look at this tortilla bread:
Well, that's a wrap.
MeDeFe wrote:crispybits wrote:What is logic Mets? (serious question though it may seem spurious - I would say that just like causality all those pages back logic cannot be said to be definitely true outside of a logical universe - supernatural things could easily be entirely illogical)
That's a very steep claim you're making. Given the nature of logic, the burden of argumentation is squarely on your shoulders there. You'd essentially have to show that there's no such thing as a necessary truth, not even in tautologies. Managing that would cement your place in history as one of the greatest thinkers of all time.
To answer your question of what logic is, Wikipedia is actually not a bad place to start.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propositional_logic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predicate_logic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-order_logic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-order_logic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_logic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possible_World
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_truth
oss spy wrote:Oh...so that's the angle that they're playing at? If this is the case, then I'm just going to leave this thread for fifty pages like I did last time.
natty_dread wrote:Do ponies have sex?
(proud member of the Occasionally Wrongly Banned)Army of GOD wrote:the term heterosexual is offensive. I prefer to be called "normal"
Gillipig wrote:jonesthecurl wrote:Gillipig wrote:I present to you evidence of our lord and saviors existence! Just look at this tortilla bread:
Well, that's a wrap.
Can you not see his holyness in this miracle of a tortilla? Clearly god has sent us a message. He did this to prove his own existence. He needs us to believe in him otherwise he'll start to doubt his own existence.
john9blue wrote:oss spy wrote:Oh...so that's the angle that they're playing at? If this is the case, then I'm just going to leave this thread for fifty pages like I did last time.
they are on your side now, you can safely retreat
jonesthecurl wrote:Gillipig wrote:jonesthecurl wrote:Gillipig wrote:I present to you evidence of our lord and saviors existence! Just look at this tortilla bread:
Well, that's a wrap.
Can you not see his holyness in this miracle of a tortilla? Clearly god has sent us a message. He did this to prove his own existence. He needs us to believe in him otherwise he'll start to doubt his own existence.
And can it be coincidence...
TORT illa
GOD zilla?
oss spy wrote:Oh...so that's the angle that they're playing at? If this is the case, then I'm just going to leave this thread for fifty pages like I did last time.
Viceroy63 wrote:jonesthecurl wrote:P.S. whihc secular historians record the price for which Judas sold Jesus?
Earl, You should look into things like that for yourself. I could be lying to you. anyone can. Don't take my word for it or anyone's for that matter. Don't even take the Bible's word for it (If you ever manage to read it and see for yourself), Just Google search it... Historians, Judas, 30 pieces of silver... And see what pops up?
Gillipig wrote:jonesthecurl wrote:Gillipig wrote:jonesthecurl wrote:Gillipig wrote:I present to you evidence of our lord and saviors existence! Just look at this tortilla bread:
Well, that's a wrap.
Can you not see his holyness in this miracle of a tortilla? Clearly god has sent us a message. He did this to prove his own existence. He needs us to believe in him otherwise he'll start to doubt his own existence.
And can it be coincidence...
TORT illa
GOD zilla?
Definitely not! There are no coincidences, only God's will! If I see a butterfly while crapping, that's God's way of telling me something.
crispybits wrote:When it turns out the rules aren't what you assumed they were, it doesn't mean anyone changed them, maybe you just assumed wrong.
AAFitz wrote:oss spy wrote:Oh...so that's the angle that they're playing at? If this is the case, then I'm just going to leave this thread for fifty pages like I did last time.
Well, that was his answer to it, not mine. I'm merely pointing out that its silly to say
God knows what is going to happen, therefore no free will. Because, God is simultaneously omnipotent, therefore he can make freewill.
My point is not that any of that is logical, only that it certainly cannot be dismissed with simple logic as you tried to do.
Its as silly as what they are arguing, which is that, well, God must exist, because, someone told me he did.
It is complexity that wins this argument, which actually cannot be won, not simplicity.
oss spy wrote:I still don't see why that has anything to do with omniscience removing free will.
oss spy wrote:crispybits wrote:When it turns out the rules aren't what you assumed they were, it doesn't mean anyone changed them, maybe you just assumed wrong.
You don't think it's intellectually dishonest to say, "He is supernatural, therefore what you say can't apply."? That's unscientific; it cannot possibly be disproven. Therefore, we are able to toss that argument out of the window.
jonesthecurl wrote:Gillipig wrote:jonesthecurl wrote:Gillipig wrote:jonesthecurl wrote:Gillipig wrote:I present to you evidence of our lord and saviors existence! Just look at this tortilla bread:
Well, that's a wrap.
Can you not see his holyness in this miracle of a tortilla? Clearly god has sent us a message. He did this to prove his own existence. He needs us to believe in him otherwise he'll start to doubt his own existence.
And can it be coincidence...
TORT illa
GOD zilla?
Definitely not! There are no coincidences, only God's will! If I see a butterfly while crapping, that's God's way of telling me something.
Wipe your behind with the butterfly?
crispybits wrote:Religious (read: christian) people don't claim that their God is a natural being inside the natural universe, they claim he is an external supernatural being, and that we have a spark of the supernatural inside us too called an immortal soul and that this is how we relate to him and he relates to us (except in the very rare cases of interventionist miracles where he influences actual natural reality). You can never touch, see, hear, smell or taste God in any empirical sense. That is why religious faith stands apart epistemologically from other forms of belief about things inside the universe.
crispybits wrote:You can never touch, see, hear, smell or taste God in any empirical sense. That is why religious faith stands apart epistimologically from other forms of belief about things inside the universe.
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