Formerly the Map Ideas Thread, now CLOSED

[Lord Bob]

I rather like it, the fact that I think you're designing maps to beat me on is irrelevant.

[Pious]

THe only thing that I can say is that you should make the bonuses so that if you hold a whole colum you get a certain amount. If you hold a line you should get a bonus.

But that could quickly become complicated because there's different amounts of squares in every column and row. Each would have to have individually set bonuses, which could lead to far too many bonuses overall. And since there are blocked squares, you couldn't easily take a row/column "region."

If you hold a box you should get a bonus.

That's what it is now, see the key on the side.

I also dont think that you should be able to attack diagnoly.

I'd have to rework the entire map if I did that because some boxes would become isolated. The point of blocked-off squares is so that there aren't complex rules.

ok fair enough about the diagnol. I still think that you should get bonuses for colums and rows though. It wouldnt get complicated as it would look something like this:

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t137/dominationnation/sudoku.jpg

with the bonuses in the respective areas.

Please replace that with a link, it skews the entire page for those of us with a standard screen resolution.

The problem with having bonuses like that is that look at the map. On the far left column, there's only 4 playable squares. Two to the right, there's 6. They all vary in numbers and thus would need individual bonuses. And none of them are straightforward in taking so they'd have high bonuses by bonus standards. There would just be too many bonuses.

I like simplistic. With just the squares, there's only a few bonuses and you can easily see the visual key to see how many armies you make. You don't even need to speak any English to understand it.

[dominationnation]

well if you like simplistic than it is your map so do what ever you want. I have always enjoye more complex things but it is your choice so...

[Pious]

well if you like simplistic than it is your map so do what ever you want. I have always enjoye more complex things but it is your choice so...

I just think that rows/columns would give rules too complicated to visually show and it would be too hard to actually take them. It would only come into play when someone has almost won the game anyway.

[hatterson]

Yay finally get a chance to officially throw my comments on.

First, I like the idea of having only boxes be bonuses. Originally when Pious mentioned on IRC about Sudoku being an idea for a map I had also though of an open map with rows, columns and boxes all getting bonuses but quickly realized that would be a nightmare of a map. Without actual impasses each square (except outside ones) could be attacked from any one of nine places. Combined with 81 total territories this would make a brutally long and slow game.

When Pious explained what he was thinking and we found a good puzzle to start off of it became clear to me that this is the best way to approach it.

However, I still have a couple suggestions that I would like the community as a whole to digest.

To avoid confusion I will refer to the larger squares as boxes. There are 9 such boxes on the board each represented by a color. I will refer to the 'inner' squares simply as squares. There are 81 of these total with only 48 people playable areas

First, I dislike that the middle of the map is the only way to move from one side to another, I believe there should be another avenue. As it is a player controling the central orange square (the very middle one on the map) and either it's right neighbor or it's bottom neighbor can completely control armies passing from one side of the map to the other.

To fix this I propose that another avenue or attack or two be opened up. This can be accomplished by either moving the 8 which currently resides in the bottom middle (teal) box (in the top right square of that box) one space to the left. This would mean fuchia (?) could directly attack teal on the diagonal.

Also, a similar move could be done with the 8 in the green box (bottom left square in the box). If this is moved one space to the right it opens up an attack from brown to green and another way to pass through the middle of the map.

The second thing I notice is that the bottom right corner (including both the purple and teal boxes) screams turtle corner to me. A player defending on two borders, and holding only 9 contries can receive 5 bonus armies. That seems like too much reward to me.

As a possible fix another entrace to the purple box could be added by moving the 6 from that box diagonally up and to the right one square into the fuchia (?) box. This would also serve the duel purpose of adding another lane of attack around the map.

If something I've said isn't clear or you can't quite understand it I'll be happy to use my leet paint skilz to graphically show what I'm talking about, although I tried to be as clear as I could.

[Pious]

I fixed both of your concerns simply by doing your second suggestion and opening up the bottom right. This serves as a bypass of the center box without having to change the others. I also took the opportunity to add my name and increase the bonus for holding the bottom right.

[WidowMakers]

Map looks good. I like it more than an entirely open sudoku puzzle.

I see you are letting diagonal attacks. Based on that, your bonus seems to be equal to the number of border territories of each different color. Is that what you were going for?

If you are still working on them, here is an excel template that helps calculate bonus based on several different factors of each bonus are. I calculates bonus based off of, territory count, border count, adjacent territory count, and neighboring continent count.
http://www.mediamax.com/dzlqps/Hosted/B ... mplate.xls

Is this the large or the small map? If it is the large I feel the small one will be too small and the army numbers might not fit. Especially once you figure out how to name the territories.

[chessplaya]

POLL: How should the squares be labelled? This is for use on distinguishing which square is which for deployment, attacking, and fortification.

This poll will last 10 days as of June 21, 2007.

I think we need another "puzzle" map as Crossword is the only one we currently have so I came up with a Sudoku map. Currently there is only one version, but if this idea is liked I'll adjust it to another size as well (after it develops further).



Version 2


Version 1

There are 48 squares, which are this game's countries. Each larger square is a continent (box), but, because not every square is playable, only the colored squares count toward boxes. Since there are 48 squares:

2 players get 16 squares each with 16 neutral
3 players get 16 squares each
4 players get 12 squares each
5 players get 9 squares each with 3 neutral
6 players get 8 squares each

The gray numbered squares don't count as countries - they are "blockers" so the map isn't too wide open. Other than that, movement is simple - a square can fortify to or attack any square that touches it, including at the diagonal. Thus, a square can touch up to 9 other squares.

The bonuses are currently rough and probably need reworking.

The actual Sudoku puzzle should be solvable and is based on this puzzle, but adjusted for playability on Conquer Club.

the red area has no borders with any other area

[WidowMakers]

the red area has no borders with any other area

It has 1 if diagonals are allowed

[Phobia]

Solved!



Ahem..anyway, I think it is a good idea, it is looking good so far! good luck

[tr8tr]

tr8tr I know you got the skills to turn out a sick map... I say try to tackle one...

I'd love to Ninja, but gotta keep the Packer Addict on my brain right now. I'd love to dive into this fully and create a kick-arse concept, but with football season around the corner, I gotta get my butt in gear. You know what I mean.

[hatterson]

Map looks good. I like it more than an entirely open sudoku puzzle.

I see you are letting diagonal attacks. Based on that, your bonus seems to be equal to the number of border territories of each different color. Is that what you were going for?

If you are still working on them, here is an excel template that helps calculate bonus based on several different factors of each bonus are. I calculates bonus based off of, territory count, border count, adjacent territory count, and neighboring continent count.
http://www.mediamax.com/dzlqps/Hosted/B ... mplate.xls

Is this the large or the small map? If it is the large I feel the small one will be too small and the army numbers might not fit. Especially once you figure out how to name the territories.

To answer for Pious. Yes he was just saying each bonus was worth the number of borders an area has. Although he said that these were just preliminary becuase he didn't really have a more in depth way of calculating them


Edit: Upon plugging in the numbers myself I see that this spreadsheet comes up with very similar numbers as the original ones. The only difference is that all boxes receive an extra army added to their bonus and the central box (orange) has 2 additional (to recieve 7 in total). So in this case the very simplistic estimate turned out to be very close to a good number

[Pious]

Map looks good. I like it more than an entirely open sudoku puzzle.

I see you are letting diagonal attacks. Based on that, your bonus seems to be equal to the number of border territories of each different color. Is that what you were going for?

If you are still working on them, here is an excel template that helps calculate bonus based on several different factors of each bonus are. I calculates bonus based off of, territory count, border count, adjacent territory count, and neighboring continent count.
http://www.mediamax.com/dzlqps/Hosted/B ... mplate.xls

Is this the large or the small map? If it is the large I feel the small one will be too small and the army numbers might not fit. Especially once you figure out how to name the territories.

This is the small map, I've seen larger small maps.

I did do the bordering territories for the bonus as a filler until I found a better method. As for the spreadsheet, it recommended the following when I rounded the numbers:

Code: Select all

  Color | Current | Suggested
-------------------------------
Red     |    1    |     2
Green   |    4    |     5
Blue    |    3    |     4
Brown   |    4    |     6
Orange  |    5    |     7
Pink    |    3    |     4
Yellow  |    3    |     4
Cyan    |    4    |     5
Purple  |    2    |     3

I think cyan's suggested value is too high because you can take one purple square and then only have to defend it on 3 spots, but it still recommends 5 even when I lowered its defending spots to 3. Most of the numbers simply went up one, but I think it is interesting how orange and brown (the two hardest to defend) went up two.

Should I subtract one for each bonus to keep the feel of the original bonuses or is the new method of larger bonuses fairer?

[hatterson]

Should I subtract one for each bonus to keep the feel of the original bonuses or is the new method of larger bonuses fairer?

It depends on the feel you want for the map. Higher bonuses lead to a quicker game if someone gets ahold of a couple places. Lots of smaller bonuses leads to a more drawn out game. At least that's what I've seen in my experience.

[xENDERx]

Casino Map


Like the idea?
Yes 55% [ 11 ]
No 45% [ 9 ]

Total Votes : 20



I am currently knocking up a rough draft for a Casino Map, I was wondering if anyone thought this was a good idea.

Rough Draft, 6/23/07

[OnlyAmbrose]

That'd be cool, maybe have it a hotel-casino. The ground-floor rooms could be a continent, the lobby (with the reception desk, lounge, etc being territories), maybe card tables (blackjack and various poker games as countries?), slots, etc etc.

Great idea

[xENDERx]

I was making a hand drawn one earlier and thats what my brother suggested, it'd be kind of hard to do though...

[thegeneralpublic]

I think it would be really cool. Since it's a casino, you could do some really fun game board features with the games. Like, maybe if you own three slot machines you have a 1/50 chance of a huge troop bonus each turn.

[RobinJ]

Yes this could be really cool - I do love a wee gamble myself!

[xENDERx]

Yeah, I think thats a good idea, a 1 army sacrifice in order to have a chance for 10 or something.

[Pious]

Here's my opinion, though the XML should be more advanced first:

The casino should have special territories like slots and roulette. Each has a random chance of either giving you a bonus or taking away bonuses.

OR

The casnio's special territories work differently: If you deploy armies on them, you either have them multiplied or lose them, the multiplier higher where the odds are lower. While it's not always useful, it could turn around a game or you could always fortify your winnings to the front line at the end of your turn.

[xENDERx]

The XML would have to be more advanced before we could do either of those, but both great ideas.

[xENDERx]

Or, what I was thinking is that if it is possible, card sets could be cashed in for more in flat rate, like double or something, and in escalating, it starts at 10 armies or something. Just a thought.

[Coleman]

I think what would be awesome (but not possible with the xml) is whenever your armies in a square is the same as the correct number for that square in the solution you get +1.

But again, not possible with the current xml.

[Coleman]

Should I subtract one for each bonus to keep the feel of the original bonuses or is the new method of larger bonuses fairer?

It depends on the feel you want for the map. Higher bonuses lead to a quicker game if someone gets ahold of a couple places. Lots of smaller bonuses leads to a more drawn out game. At least that's what I've seen in my experience.

I'd go with the one below what the calculator says for each bonus.