INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

[Tobikera]

unvote
vote dakky21

forgot to bold it
@Tobi i believe you accidentally used a different red that appears brownish to me eyes.

Thanks, jfm10.

UNVOTE
VOTE PERSHY

@ Strike Wolf: I voted jfm originally to help get him to L-2; his claim was worthless, but he finally came through with something. Somewhere along the line pershy did his reappearance and acted very uncharacteristically (based on about 10-12 games over four years or so). So, I switched my vote to pershy because I believe his actions were very scummy based on my experience of his play.

[jfm10]

I figure i better say intentionally/accidentily before i end up having to defend myself on that aswell.

[Skoffin]

on mobil3

@mets


Im fucking confused and I'm at work (RAGIAN) and wont be home for 7 hours, but
I rid want to say before i forget that i am convinced there is an sk in the game.

[strike wolf]

Look, I'm not going to make this more complicated than it is.
I'm not the doc so it's possible Jfm is saying the truth that he is really a doc.
I do have an investigative role but if I use it then I am not bulletproof- scum can kill me at night.

That being said I believe Jfm has a similar role and can probably choose to protect himself or risk and protect someone else.

I don't think jfm ever claimed to be a doc. He just said he could protect "prevent all attacks against your target".

Under normal mafia definitions, that's what a doc does.

jfm also makes sure to point out that the wording of his role indicates there is a vigilante.

Wouldn't that information be more valuable to scum? Is he trying to tip them off?

All he really proves assuming the wording is intentionally done that way to indicate multiple kills is that There s more than one killer in the game. Vig is always a likely target, serial killer is also possible, poisoner or Arsonist less likely.

Also maybe we should try not to abbreviate both Sirius and Serial Killer as SK to avoid confusion.

Well of course There s no guns what I want to know is are there any swords, saws or hammerheads?

[jfm10]

Look, I'm not going to make this more complicated than it is.
I'm not the doc so it's possible Jfm is saying the truth that he is really a doc.
I do have an investigative role but if I use it then I am not bulletproof- scum can kill me at night.

That being said I believe Jfm has a similar role and can probably choose to protect himself or risk and protect someone else.

I don't think jfm ever claimed to be a doc. He just said he could protect "prevent all attacks against your target".

Under normal mafia definitions, that's what a doc does.

jfm also makes sure to point out that the wording of his role indicates there is a vigilante.

Wouldn't that information be more valuable to scum? Is he trying to tip them off?

All he really proves assuming the wording is intentionally done that way to indicate multiple kills is that There s more than one killer in the game. Vig is always a likely target, serial killer is also possible, poisoner or Arsonist less likely.

Also maybe we should try not to abbreviate both Sirius and Serial Killer as SK to avoid confusion.

Well of course There s no guns what I want to know is are there any swords, saws or hammerheads?

Well,since i probably have the most posts anyways and i must be scum for that i am actually going to respond to this with "how would i know?"
and for those wondering why i responded i can already see the "well,he didn't answer my question"
Also welcome to the game strike wolf

[BuJaber]

Everybody who said they are willing to vote pershy vote him please. By my count that's more votes than anybody else (apart from jfm), and if we are to save jfm from a d1 lynch we have to consolidate.
[V]pershy[/v]

Dakky you're doing insane mental gymnastics to implicate jfm. You claimed for nothing after hounding jfm for claiming and then calling him a rolefisher, again for claiming, even though he was pressured into it.

Objectively:
Based on the definition he is doctor. Are you doctor? No.
Based on his play I'd say he's a newish player. He easily could have assumed he could target himself when he can't. He didn't say he asked the mod about it.
Based on aage and other people's comments you should know that your 'he is useless' argument holds no water.

Subjectively:
Based on the shitty wagon and the fact people rehashed bad reason that were already countered to also vote for jfm, he's town.
Based on how some people 'didn't believe' his soft claimed but 'believed' his full claim, he's town.

You say you get lynched day 1 and you just can't hold it in but you have a choice and you chose to do these things. Even if you are telling the truth, you are being a hypocrite, giving scum too much info, changing your reason for wanting jfm slightly every time you post, falsely equating your role to his, and letting far worse slots coast freely.

[BuJaber]

Everybody who said they are willing to vote pershy vote him please. By my count that's more votes than anybody else (apart from jfm), and if we are to save jfm from a d1 lynch we have to consolidate.
pershy

[BuJaber]

Unvote and then vote pershy

Fml

[jfm10]

vote Blurp Blurp

this was the 4th post of the game

Re: INTO THE DEEP
Postby dakky21 on Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:18 pm

jfm, who is Blurp Blurp? btw, even if you wanted to make it funny, you should have bolded the words... because your joke vote isn't even a vote, at least per rules.

anyway, I know it's too early to hunt scum, but I'll go with my old strategy and vote people whoever vote for NPC's. Vote jfm10

this was the fifth,and no matter what i say he has been adament that i am scum,even to go as far as to say he shares my roll kinda.

For me he is the only one that is scum which makes my vote on him the only certain vote i have.

[strike wolf]

Does anyone know how many votes Dakky and Chap have? Or should I try to figure it out?

[Sirius Kase]

awhile back, someone TG AG 90, I think asked if it was possible to have someone who was neither scum or town, but hostile to both. Didn't see a reply to that, but I'm starting to think that as nasty as some of the comments are, it just might be the case that someone is here just to make trouble.

[ZaBeast]

Ididn't say thier won't be any vigs , I said thier won't be any guns because fish don't have fingers.

I don't believe you didn't use mafia lingo there. Otherwise, that would be the most useless remark one could make. Based on the theme, I don't think there are any dinosaurs or Harry Potter characters either. See my point?
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Gunsmith

Members of the Mafia (that are not Doctors), Cops, FBI Agents, Vigilantes, other Gunsmiths, Paranoid Gun Owners, etc. all have guns in traditional flavor. Notably, Serial Killers and Doctors do not have guns.

Well,since i probably have the most posts anyways and i must be scum for that i am actually going to respond to this with "how would i know?"

No one said that. Also quality =/ quantity

@SW AFAIK dakky has 1 vote (jfm), I think chap had 3 (Mets, you, me), but Ragian and aage said they would vote for him if needed. I might unvote for pershy but would be comfortable in either wagon
@BuJ I was under the impression only you, tobi and me said they would vote pershy. dakky said something along the lines that pershy could be scum with jfm but I'm not sure that would translate to a vote
@SK By definition any 3rd party don't side with town or scum. There can be innocuous ones like survivor (who wants to stay alive until the endgame) or hostile like serial killer (another role with NK whose goal is to be the only one left). Either way, should there be any, it's not really in their interest to stand out as it would paint a target on their back

[chapcrap]

Is it too early or the right time to speculate on whether there is a 3rd party?

I know we are on a time crunch if we want to D1 lynch someone and don't want to muddle that progress. But, if discussing 3rd party possibilities helps, I'll chime in.

I'll hold my thoughts unless I get some encouragement to post them.

Speculating was basically the whole argument against me by Mets.

If pershy is scummy, wouldn't his defense of jfm strengthen the argument to lynch jfm (and vice versa)? And since he was also defending chapcrap, a FoS could be pointed that way too.

Don't lump me in with pershy please. I already said that Mets was the only one I found scummy until pershy popped up.

I didn't rolefish.

Well, let's see.

jfm's claim came out of nowhere, IMO. It seems REALLY fishy to me. That being said, I'm not sure if I believe him, but I think if someone is claiming that straight off, we should give them the benefit of the doubt, not lynch him. No one is counterclaiming, so I would believe him at this point.

I called this lowkey rolefishing because you say you believe him because nobody is counterclaiming - that just spurs other people with a protective town role into counterclaiming.

@jfm I agree with Tobi on the claim. Is there a reason to not say your species? It does not make sense to me. Your role (protective) is a lot more potent information than your species and you gave that up like it was a tictac. Are you just waiting for L-2?

Yeah, that's rolefishing. I've been wanting to make a joke about role-fishing and the game's theme for a while, so here it is: you're fishing for his fish.

fp'd

How is it strawmanning?

"blatant attempts to gain town cred early on aren't the scummiest thing one can do" ---> "blatant attempts to gain town cred early aren't scummy"

"In this game, players can play to win and to gain credits, this may become interesting" --> "people don't care about winning, only about credits"

at your joke

I was responding to people wanting to lynch jfm and the reason I would believe him at this point. I was asking for someone to counterclaim. This is the same as Mets' posted feelings. Give him a D1 pass. I'm sure someone could verify whether or not he was town in the night after this, so there was no reason to lynch a claimed protective role. And the second quote wasn't even rolefishing or trying to get a claim in any way. That was me trying to understand how holding back the species was more important than the protective role information. I still do not understand that logic. That's like saying, "Hey, I'm a cop, but don't ask me my species, because I'll never reveal it!!" WTF?

To restate differently after finishing the rest of this post: I'm still happy strike is here, but he is the one that erroneously said I was rolefishing multiple times with no proof. He still hasn't produced anything. Neither of those posts were rolefishing either. I could see how the first quoted post (not first in chronological posted order) can be read that way, but it wasn't the intent. The other is just blatantly not at all. Not sure why it was quoted.

fastposted by dakky - yes I see your point, but if it is a fake claim it's a v good one that I believe for now, and as I mentioned, what he says now might not be the case later on. I just don't wanna lynch someone that I think is town. But yes, I do get your point. My question to you is, do you think it's a fake claim? If not, I get that you think he's useless to town, but surely it's better to try and get scum rather than someone you think is town, despite the fact that you think they might not be helpful because their ability has been outed.

Let's put it this way:
There is a wagon on Mets/chap. Mets/chap could be a town Cop who will investigate and bring information tomorrow.
There is also a wagon on Jfm. Jfm is a doctor who will protect himself for the rest of the game.

Who do you want to lynch? Bring Mets to L-2 so he must claim Cop? Or lynch the VT who could be scum? I think the answer is pretty much self explanatory. It's not about fake claims, it's about lynching the lesser evil and possibly the scum.

Eh, I think that's a bad take dakky. Based on Mets' previous post, he thinks jfm should hav ea D1 pass at this point. Don't lynch a claimed strong town role when there are others to go after.

Well Mets, yeah, that's another point of view IF you believe Jfm is the real Doc. Sorry, but I don't.

Ah, yes, thanks for pointing that out. I had added that caveat in an earlier version of the post but then erased it as I was rewording. The above is indeed predicated on me thinking jfm is telling the truth, which I'm not sure I do now, and my feeling on that could change later. I'm just not willing to take the leap on D1 for this.

[jfm10]

Vote jfm10

So basically you want him out because he's a good player

There you are,vote number two on me for voting raigan cause i said he was a good player.You guys beat me down for everything and when i am on the ground you just keep kicking.

[Ragian]

Ugh...four pages to read. I'll do so after work.

[ZaBeast]

Either jfm10 or dakky21 could be a bus driver. They can protect someone by switching them with someone else at night. They can also protect themselves by switching themselves with someone else, preferably an assumed scum. I did this very thing in a recent game with the DBD folks.

Doesn't match the claim at all. Bus driver doesn't protect from night actions, it diverts them to another target. If you bus 2 people around they can still be hit by actions placed on the other one.

Vote jfm10

So basically you want him out because he's a good player

There you are,vote number two on me for voting raigan cause i said he was a good player.You guys beat me down for everything and when i am on the ground you just keep kicking.

Do you disagree with the argument I gave though? Don't see why I should apologize for trying to build a case on you.

[BuJaber]

@ZB - there's more. We can get ragian and aage on board. Mets also we can use to our advantage because he doesn't want to lynch jfm. I believe chap expressed potential willingness to vote pershy. Might be more that I forgot alao. Not to mention jfm himself.

[pershy]

wow another essay in a few hours.

@Tobi and bujabber, you're barking up the wrong tree. Weak sauce case, I was busy during the week, I voted jfm, he claimed I unvoted. I have been active and got up early today b4 work to check in and have some 20 posts on D1 which is in line with everyone else and more than some. My play is consistent with my usual play and so is my logic (that D1 warrants a claim and a lynch, especially in a big game). U wanna start a wagon on me, I'd be happy to claim if u find me scummy (not a good idea) but there is ZERO reason to do so and there is already momentum with chap and mets which you are ignoring.

Having said that I find them both to be quite towny lately. I don't have any particular inclination to vote either chap or Mets but maybe we need another claim today. I dunno, maybe we should simply let our N actions bring more stuff to light.

dakky's insistence on jfm's guilt is interesting to me and it clears him in my eyes where I had my suspicions before. However jfm is not a doc as dakky keeps saying lol and it's feasable that the 2 could have roles which are similar in some way in a big game like this. Dakky's insistence though does make me take notice, he seems to have good reason to think jfm is scum, and at any rate it pretty much confirms him as town in my eyes as scum wouldn't be so insistent on D1 in this way I don't think.

[BuJaber]

Actually yes the description fits doc perfectly, dakky is scum or playing like a noob, I led the case on mets I only switched to you because you're more likely to be lynched, and I haven't been ignoring chaps I'm just more convinced of others' guilts than I am of his. As much as I disagree with much of what he's posted he's been much more ballsy than the other jfm voters and was one of the leading voices against jfm I can definitely see scum sitting back letting him do their dirty deeds for them. Also some of his pokes at people are spot on.

To reiterate, jfm was pushed into claiming for no reasons, most of the votes or him were not because he's scum but to expose unecessary information, there's no reason to believe his full claim if you didn't also believe his soft claim, and spinning the narrative of the game to try and make him look guilty is scummy, as well as suddenly believing his claim without valid reason.

It's a little too late to plead innocent for anyone who had contributed to the rolefishing and holding jfm captive at lynch threshold just because a new player said he is a protective unprompted in a game with no VTs.

And to whoever said it no he's not a bus driver that does not fit the description he claimed at all and only creates more confusion through misinformation so drop it please.

@ZB - the gun comment was clearly talking about flavor. You're correct it was a useless and stupid thing to say but try to read the tone and his other posts around the time and it will be clear to you what he said. The flavor discussion at the time was taking over the thread and confusing people, especially newer players who have not yet learned to scumhunt without having mechanical information like flips, votes, and night actions.

[BuJaber]

Just so their no confusion I am passive aggressively scumreading several people's actions in the post not just you chapcrap. Dakky is the one being scummy for insisting he's scum and giving away half-information about his role for no reason at all and pretending he doesn't know what a doc is. You're scummy for contributing to the full claim and 'believing' him after the claim when you clearly didn't believe his soft claim.

[Razorvich]

Welcome to my mind-mess strike wolf
Ask Dakky... he knows all about them

@razor: Can docs and other protective roles target themselves?

• This is my first attempt at a Mafia setup, so expect some crazy, and somewhat "interwebbing" roles
• Myself and Tokle are the only ones that know what is really going on, and will give no external clues to anyone

------------------------------

Deadline for Day 1 will now be CC Time: 2019-03-12 06:59:59
Day 1 will end, unless there is a lynch prior to the deadline.

The funky end time fits with my work schedule to ensure a smooth night scene transition

hope there is no mistakes this time... you guys and gals are nutz

[blacky365]

Mets, you are aware that if jfm turns out to be scum you're next? Bold move.

I think JFM could be scum, I don't think he IS scum. This game is based on assumptions (and slips etc.) so I don't see your point here.

I unvoted him just to prevent quick hammer as we have few days ahead, but that doesn't change my mind... JFM or/and Pershy are scum.

I actually agree with TX, claimed role of "protector" who can protect himself is a double edged sword. Even if jfm is telling the truth and is town and protects himself, anything except a lynch will ever prove that. Why would anyone say the contradicting - "unless i make myself the target and then they waste thier night" and then "I have no choice now but to target myself every night" ... so if he is telling the truth, he gave away the crucial town information which will lead to another town being killed every night. And if he is scum, he got a free pass to the endgame. My vote stays on jfm.

As I said Pershy could be scum with jfm and voted him to "stick" to the group.

I'll just ask again - even if jfm is telling the truth, you are willing to give him a free pass to the end of the game because he is just useless to town? Ever considered that he is lying and you've given scum the free pass? Defense of jfm could be a town cred play, yes. But it can also be a scum trying to defend a fellow and you sound like you completely disallow that possibility.

But what is the purpose of a powerful town role if he is going to protect himself each night starting D1? Pointless to lynch a claimed doc who will protect himself? Whats the reasoning behind that... if he is telling the truth, scum won't target him and each night some other town PR will be killed, surely more important than an useless self-protecting Doc. Will he risk and try to protect someone and leave himself unprotected? I doubt it after he clearly stated he will protect himself.

He could be lying about being a Doc and I find it more helpful for town to lynch a practically useless VT D1 than someone else who might have a better role. And there's that, that useless VT who will cover his ass for the rest of the game - could be scum.

Well Mets, yeah, that's another point of view IF you believe Jfm is the real Doc. Sorry, but I don't.

I have reasons why I don't believe he is a doctor.

I'll just throw it out... mets was right, I'll get lynched D1 again...

You know the feeling when something doesn't seems right? I feel that about Jfm. I could believe he is the Doc, but he said he can protect himself during the night and the only way to kill him is to be lynched. That's basically my role and I'm not the Doc. There you go... I just can't hold that in myself. So maybe Jfm's role shares the part of not being killable at night but it doesn't necessarily means he is a Doc and why would any sane Doc counter claim on D1? Only to get NK'ed and that is why I think Jfm is fishing for.

Look, I'm not going to make this more complicated than it is.
I'm not the doc so it's possible Jfm is saying the truth that he is really a doc.
I do have an investigative role but if I use it then I am not bulletproof- scum can kill me at night.

That being said I believe Jfm has a similar role and can probably choose to protect himself or risk and protect someone else.

Mate, you are all over the place, contradicting yourself regularly!

this is a no brainer for me...
Vote Dakky

[pershy]

I was suspicious of dakky earlier, but looking at his play after jfm's claim leads be to believe he is town and has a similar role as jfm and that's why he insists that jfm is lying. I don't see him being scum now.

[blacky365]

I dunno... I find that the way he has been posting this, is quite scummy.

[Tobikera]

I was suspicious of dakky earlier, but looking at his play after jfm's claim leads be to believe he is town and has a similar role as jfm and that's why he insists that jfm is lying. I don't see him being scum now.

Pershy rushing to the defense of a a fellow scumster?