Do you believe in aliens?

[Serbia]

Search on youtube yourself. I myself am not sure...

[Dukasaur]

Search on youtube yourself. I myself am not sure...

That's why I'm voting for Trump. He will keep the aliens out.

[KoolBak]

If you understand (which you really cant with our limited brainpower) the actual SCOPE of the universe, in time and space, there absolutely HAS to be other beings out there.

[Serbia]

If you understand (which you really cant with our limited brainpower) the actual SCOPE of the universe, in time and space, there absolutely HAS to be other beings out there.

I actually agree with you. I only said I'm not sure to elicit responses.

Bollocks.

[Bernie Sanders]

The illegal aliens are already here. Do we legalize them or deport them?

[tzor]

If you understand (which you really cant with our limited brainpower) the actual SCOPE of the universe, in time and space, there absolutely HAS to be other beings out there.

That all depends on how one defines "the SCOPE of the universe" ...

The actual amount of the universe that lies beyond our scope is massive. The question of life outside our scope is practically a moot one.

[Serbia]

If you understand (which you really cant with our limited brainpower) the actual SCOPE of the universe, in time and space, there absolutely HAS to be other beings out there.

That all depends on how one defines "the SCOPE of the universe" ...

The actual amount of the universe that lies beyond our scope is massive. The question of life outside our scope is practically a moot one.

So are you disagreeing with his point?

Bollocks.

[notyou2]

Aliens? No...

Bigfoot? Yes.

[muy_thaiguy]

Aliens? No...

Bigfoot? Yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantopithecus

[tzor]

So are you disagreeing with his point?

If someone exists out there and you can neither observe nor be observed by that someone ... what's the point?

Suppose the universe is infinite? WHO CARES! Since it is not infinite in time and since the universe has been in a constant state of evolution, you can only see so far into the universe and the farther the see, the earlier you see into that universe.

And please don't try to invoke wormholes or other such nonsense. That's the same nonsense that would try to assert that the invention of the interstate actually increases the revenues of no name towns nearby the interstate. The fact is that people pass by those no name towns and never know they even exist. The same may be true with our little planet. Just hope that we never get demolished in order to build an off ramp on that highway (oh wait, it's too late, but I did get this lovely bowl as a result).

[Kevi]

The illegal aliens are already here. Do we legalize them or deport them?

They deported me.

[KoolBak]

Tzor....are you a politician? That was a hell of an answer

[2dimes]

He has no idea they observe him and shake their little oversized grey heads.

[apey]

He has no idea they observe him and shake their little oversized grey heads.

sounds kinky

[Serbia]

So are you disagreeing with his point?

If someone exists out there and you can neither observe nor be observed by that someone ... what's the point?

You cannot prove that you are not being observed by "someone... out there". And the question isn't "is there a point to believing in aliens", the question is "do you believe in aliens".

If I asked if you think the Yankees suck, would you answer that because you don't speak to them, and they don't speak to you, it doesn't matter? Your answer is nothing but a dodge. I agree with koolbak, go run for office.

Bollocks.

[jonesthecurl]

So are you disagreeing with his point?

If someone exists out there and you can neither observe nor be observed by that someone ... what's the point?

Suppose the universe is infinite? WHO CARES! Since it is not infinite in time and since the universe has been in a constant state of evolution, you can only see so far into the universe and the farther the see, the earlier you see into that universe.

And please don't try to invoke wormholes or other such nonsense. That's the same nonsense that would try to assert that the invention of the interstate actually increases the revenues of no name towns nearby the interstate. The fact is that people pass by those no name towns and never know they even exist. The same may be true with our little planet. Just hope that we never get demolished in order to build an off ramp on that highway (oh wait, it's too late, but I did get this lovely bowl as a result).

And you do have a neat digital watch.

[apey]

Aliens? No...

Bigfoot? Yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantopithecus

I've always thought this was a posibility for sasquatch. And i think they bury their dead.

[muy_thaiguy]

Aliens? No...

Bigfoot? Yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantopithecus

I've always thought this was a posibility for sasquatch. And i think they bury their dead.

Their range was in Asia though, not North America.

Oh, as for the question; hecter. Old CC poster. Fircoal. Another one.

If those aren't proof of aliens, I don't know what is.

[tzor]

You cannot prove that you are not being observed by "someone... out there". And the question isn't "is there a point to believing in aliens", the question is "do you believe in aliens".

Actually I can. In order to "observe" ... "me" (and I use that expression as loose as technically possible) a being would need an observation station within 55 light years of the earth. Moreover, the father you get the more detailed the observation equipment would need to be. Given the rotation of the earth and the orbit around the sun, the annoyance of cloud cover and my constantly being indoors, it would be a pain in the ass of observe me on a regular basis.

So for the possible alien who lives 50,000 light years away from me (whose light paths will never cross with mine) we have a mutual non observance going on.

More interestingly is the notion of those aliens and the proper technical time tense. Since I can't observe those aliens for the next 50,000 years, they are in the future. In my space time, they don't exist yet. My own appearance won't be observed by them for 50,000 years as well, so I'm in their future. I don't exist to them yet.

[Serbia]

You cannot prove that you are not being observed by "someone... out there". And the question isn't "is there a point to believing in aliens", the question is "do you believe in aliens".

Actually I can. In order to "observe" ... "me" (and I use that expression as loose as technically possible) a being would need an observation station within 55 light years of the earth. Moreover, the father you get the more detailed the observation equipment would need to be. Given the rotation of the earth and the orbit around the sun, the annoyance of cloud cover and my constantly being indoors, it would be a pain in the ass of observe me on a regular basis.

So for the possible alien who lives 50,000 light years away from me (whose light paths will never cross with mine) we have a mutual non observance going on.

More interestingly is the notion of those aliens and the proper technical time tense. Since I can't observe those aliens for the next 50,000 years, they are in the future. In my space time, they don't exist yet. My own appearance won't be observed by them for 50,000 years as well, so I'm in their future. I don't exist to them yet.

Your whole theory is based on the laws of nature on this planet, and with current human technological advances. Assuming there are "alien" lifeforms, you do not know what their capabilities are, or even where exactly they are. You assume them to be that distant, without actually knowing where they are. You make a lot of assumptions which cannot be proven.

Again, you do NOT know whether or not you are being observed.

[betiko]

The funny thing is that tzor doesn t believe that anything can ever be done about it while the humanity is slowly evolving into space monkey cyborgs, yet he believes in god...

Well if you believe, given the large scope of the universe that there are tons of inhabited planets in the universe, you believe that the miraculous conditions the earth has are not a miracle, but a statistical likelyness. Therefore, not the work of a god.
Also, your god is not mentally prepared to deal with such a vast universe given that just to create the earth he had to work a whole week and got tired the last day and had to take a nap.
Duhhhh! That s just earth dude! Look at all the work you got left to do!

That s why i don t believe in this lousy christian god, he d suck way too much. Someone needs to come up with a cooler story.

[tzor]

The funny thing is that tzor doesn t believe that anything can ever be done about it while the humanity is slowly evolving into space monkey cyborgs, yet he believes in god...

First of all, you assume that I believe in god to solve some missing piece of the universe. You are the one who seems to find it hard for a universe to exist on its own and God to exist on his own. It would be sort of arguing that you don't exist because I can explain the universe without you.

I am always reminded of the old Star Trek episode where Kirk and Spock are trying to break into a Klingon stronghold on a planet of seeming really docile people who the Klingons enslaved because of the strategic location of the planet. Defying the odds time and again, they reach their destination, only to find out, in the end, that the docile natives who were willing to be slaughtered in large numbers were in fact highly advanced energy beings who had long evolved past death. Spock comments that they had beaten the odds, but Kirk reminded him that in fact the deck had already been stacked.

We have come a long way from the simple drake equation. "Back in 1961, Frank Drake proposed a probabilistic formula to help estimate the number of active, radio-capable extraterrestrial civilizations in the Milky Way Galaxy." Even the Seager Equation is probably way too much optimistic. So let's consider just the simple parameters of the only currently known "rocky" planet that has life. How does it differ from other rocky planets in the same solar system?

The planet has a significant magnetosphere, which shields it from the atmospheric tearing action of the solar wind.

The planet has a significant dwarf planet that generates tidal forces on the surface of the mostly liquid covered planet.

Now, let's continue. Recommended Reading: Death from the skies by Phil Plait. If you really knew just how many ways the universe could easily vaporize all life on this planet you would realize that life as we know it might be even rarer than just finding the right spot that might support it. How many potential worlds were demolished by a gamma ray burst from a relatively nearby supernova? Or just got smashed by relative debris? Think about what really killed the dinosaurs (actually it was O2 loss as a result of a short term collapse in the magnetosphere the later asteroid just put the final nail in the coffin).

All this can lead to a number of conclusions. But one thing it does lead to is a significant number of worlds producing high technology life forms in a reasonable confined location within the universe.

[william18]

So are you disagreeing with his point?

If someone exists out there and you can neither observe nor be observed by that someone ... what's the point?

Suppose the universe is infinite? WHO CARES! Since it is not infinite in time and since the universe has been in a constant state of evolution, you can only see so far into the universe and the farther the see, the earlier you see into that universe.

And please don't try to invoke wormholes or other such nonsense. That's the same nonsense that would try to assert that the invention of the interstate actually increases the revenues of no name towns nearby the interstate. The fact is that people pass by those no name towns and never know they even exist. The same may be true with our little planet. Just hope that we never get demolished in order to build an off ramp on that highway (oh wait, it's too late, but I did get this lovely bowl as a result).

I think that looking for aliens can help shed light on The Fermi Paradox, which is the contradiction between the high probability of of life, but the reality that there isn't any evidence. This leads scientists to believe there is a Great Filter, which most if not all life forms failed to surpass.

Either the filter is behind us, such as the appearance of single celled organisms being extremely difficult, or ahead of us, something completely unknown. If we find bacteria and even Eukaryotas on Mars, then things start looking grimmer since it increases the probability that The Great Filter is ahead of us.

[jonesthecurl]

I'll believe in aliens if they'll believe in me.

[tzor]

I think that looking for aliens can help shed light on The Fermi Paradox, which is the contradiction between the high probability of of life, but the reality that there isn't any evidence. This leads scientists to believe there is a Great Filter, which most if not all life forms failed to surpass.

I'm convinced that it is behind us, but not all that far behind us. Single cell life is probably pretty common in the universe (on a galactic scale that is). Our single cell life, which is in fact a combination of two different single cell organisms (the second being mitochondria within the cell) is probably much rarer. Single cells that can survive poisonous oxygen rich environments are even rarer.

Remember that all life on earth started out as anaerobic. Such life still exists deep within the bottom of the ocean, near volcanic vents where the poisonous oxygen supply is nonexistent. They can form multicellular organisms but you aren't going to see them build space craft any time soon. I've seen a lot of speculation on the ancestor of chloroplasts, (the things in plant cells that makes lots of energy and all that evil poisonous oxygen), the cyanobacteria.

Let's just pause here. The single cell organism on earth was invaded by two major life forms, which became mitochondria and chloroplasts within the cell, a process that almost destroyed all previously existing life on the planet! And one of them may have come from OUTER SPACE! (Argument based on the fact that the optimum frequencies for cyanobacteria are more commonly found at a distance from the sun more at the range of Jupiter than Earth.)

Now it's going to be a long way to go from these cells to ALIENS FROM OUTER SPACE! First of all, electronics is going to be a problem for anyone who remains in a liquid H2O medium (just ask the dolphins). So you have to get life out of the seas and onto the surface. Probably not going to happen unless you have tidal forces creating places where water comes and goes. Also without a Magnetosphere you are going to loose atmosphere to the solar wind, especially hydrogen which is an annoying element in water, so you start to quickly dry out the planet. (Hello Mars.)

So based on this notion I believe that the probability of life living on solid surfaces capable of achieving intelligence is so small that they are effectively apart from each other. Homo Sapiens is what, 200,000 years old? That's the diameter of the Milky Way Galaxy! Now there are 8 potential hospitable worlds within 50 light years of the planet (a rough idea of how long we have been able to leave the Earth's atmosphere) but whether they contain life at all is questionable and probably not much evolved beyond simple organisms.

Once we get to space faring races the problems grow astronomically (no pun intended). Let's say that a race started seriously exploring stars 10,000 years ago (well we can't but I'm going to ignore relativity for the moment). At 10 psol, they would need to be closer than 100,000 light years in order to reach us, assuming that they actually by sheer luck and strange behavior made a direct journey to our general direction. If the timelines are even tighter the distances become even smaller. So if there were, let's say, four major potentially space faring races in the galaxy they would probably never see each other EVER.