Inflation and Prices: Food and Energy

[PLAYER57832]

I already gave the main reason. Employers buy the insurance. There are others.

This is certainly not the main reason and there are certainly others. Your main reason doesn't make sense logically, first of all. One would think that employers want to spend less on health insurance for employees, right? Why would they pay more for less services?

They don't truly care about the services, as long as they provide the minimum coverage allowed by law.

This is why local companies how offer "insurance" policies with $3000 per person deductables (not exaggerating in the least), etc.

Companies that do "care" do so in the sense of offering overall compensation. Executives and unions typically get great insurance. The "peons" do not. Companies that offer great compensation in general will offer good insurance. Too many companies think it is OK to offer wages too low for a person to live upon. Those same companies... and a few who might offer OK or even"good" wages, will decide it is OK to cut costs by offering poor insurance.

But, it gets beyond that. When the big corporations can negotiate lower rates, then insurance companies turn to get more profit from the smaller companies and individuals. This is not really equivalent to other types of bulk purchases, partly because the stakes are so much higher.

[Phatscotty]

I already gave the main reason. Employers buy the insurance. There are others.

This is certainly not the main reason and there are certainly others. Your main reason doesn't make sense logically, first of all. One would think that employers want to spend less on health insurance for employees, right? Why would they pay more for less services?

They don't truly care about the services, as long as they provide the minimum coverage allowed by law.

Glenn Beck buys all his employees the best possible health insurance. There are still a lot of good people out there.

[PLAYER57832]

Glenn Beck buys all his employees the best possible health insurance. There are still a lot of good people out there.

Quit trying to make this into a debate of "good people" versus "bad people". You can be a good, well-intentioned and conscionable person and still make choices that have very bad, even evil results.

Often, it comes down to the information you are given... which is why it is ALWAYS important to investigate and try to understand those who disagree with you.

[PLAYER57832]

I already gave the main reason. Employers buy the insurance. There are others.

This is certainly not the main reason and there are certainly others. Your main reason doesn't make sense logically, first of all. One would think that employers want to spend less on health insurance for employees, right? Why would they pay more for less services?

A PS to my above comment.

In the past, tax breaks have meant it made sense for companies to offer good insurance instead of more wages. As the costs of insurance have grown and competition for jobs (moving from a "worker's market" to an "employer's market" , this is no longer true. Now many companies provide insurance just because they must and will provide only the minimum, because they know they will get workers regardless)

In truth, the whole idea of employers being tied to our medical care is a tad looney. It leads to employers hiring and firing based on insurance costs for medical conditions, rather than just pure productivity and gives employers what many would consider highly, highly personal information. I mean.. think about it. A parent is not even allowed to know if their 15 year old daughter had an abortion in many states, but employers, thanks to providing insurance, have pretty free access to that information (only slightly disguised). Does that REALLY make sense? (granted, it doesn't make sense from ANY direction!) Or, set aside the 15 year old, does my employer really and truly need to know that I had miscarriages? To put this in context, add in that a surgically removed miscarriage is classified as an abortion, and I can be excluded from a job because an employer does not believe abortion is real... without any chance to explain or anything. (Technically, this is not legal, but... I can assure you it happens).

[Juan_Bottom]

More Illinois fails news
Minimum wage would go to $10 under Senate bill
http://blogs.cfed.org/cfed_news_clips/2 ... 10-un.html

SPRINGFIELD -- Senate Democrats proposed raising the state's minimum wage Thursday in a bid that eventually would boost pay for the working poor to more than $10 an hour.

Sen. Kimberly Lightford (D-Maywood) introduced legislation that would raise Illinois' $8.25-an-hour minimum wage by 50 cents plus the rate of inflation annually until it reaches its "historic level."

The legislation defines that "level" as the equivalent in today's dollars of what $1.60-an-hour was in 1968 when the inflation-adjusted buying power of the minimum wage peaked. Today, that rate would equal $10.03 per hour.

But what caught me here is that our inflation adjusted power peaked in 1968? America is full of failure.

[PLAYER57832]

But what caught me here is that our inflation adjusted power peaked in 1968? America is full of failure.

This is what happens when you are allowed to discount so many real and true costs.

[Phatscotty]

This is what happens when you are allowed to discount so many real and true costs.

Printing 3 trillion dollars might, just might, have something to do with it as well.

[Juan_Bottom]

Printing 3 trillion dollars might, just might, have something to do with it as well.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms it will be because we destroyed ourselves..."

Abraham Lincoln

[Phatscotty]

Printing 3 trillion dollars might, just might, have something to do with it as well.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms it will be because we destroyed ourselves..."

Abraham Lincoln

so true. Just look around...

[PLAYER57832]

Printing 3 trillion dollars might, just might, have something to do with it as well.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms it will be because we destroyed ourselves..."

Abraham Lincoln

so true. Just look around...

We are... we are...

[Juan_Bottom]

lol... lol...


But it is serious though.

[Phatscotty]

Got sticker shock at the grocery store yesterday. My Folgers coffee is 13$ now, and my coffee mate creamer is 5$. I was going to make a lasagna dish, but calculated it would cost me 15$ (cheese 5$), without the meat!

Lasagna is no longer economically viable for me

I am going to make one last lasagna dish, and instead of eating it, I'm going to kill it. I owe my staple lasagna pan that much....after all we've been through.

R.I.P. Phatscotties World Famous Lasagna

[Phatscotty]

Printing 3 trillion dollars might, just might, have something to do with it as well. so true. Just look around...

We are... we are...

And, how about now? Just a little over a month later. Better to see these things coming before they happen? Ive had 2 years to prepare for this. So have you. I have watched this unfold every single step of the way. There is no way in hell a bunch of people will get away with choosing ignorance to take to the streets when they finally start to give a f*ck, when it's way too late.

"Obama knows what he's doing, I don't have to worry about anything. The stimulus package is going to work. My house price is going to rebound, Obama has a great new program for people in trouble. Gas prices will not shock my pockets from cost-push inflationary pressure or affect my future budget plans (if any). The economy will rebound and I will be able to get a better job that pays more. Unemployment won't rise past 8%, and by the end of 2010, we expect unemployment to be 7%. It's all good."

I feel bad, but I am not sorry. We as a nation get what we deserve. We don't know what is going on, we have no right to get pissed off when it hits the fan. We want to let our leaders plan everything for us, then we take it on the chin when they make bad plans.

We're all in this together.

[PLAYER57832]

This is what happens when you are allowed to discount so many real and true costs.

Printing 3 trillion dollars might, just might, have something to do with it as well.

Symptom, not cause... You talk symptoms, I talk cause.

[PLAYER57832]

Printing 3 trillion dollars might, just might, have something to do with it as well. so true. Just look around...

We are... we are...

And, how about now? Just a little over a month later. Better to see these things coming before they happen? Ive had 2 years to prepare for this. .

You think this garbage began 2 years ago?????
I always knew you were short sighted, but not that ignorant!
Try more like 30-40 years ago. (in the current phase, that is... environmental/natural resource stuff began a LOT earlier..and is a big part of what we are paying for right now)

"Obama knows what he's doing, I don't have to worry about anything. The stimulus package is going to work. My house price is going to rebound, Obama has a great new program for people in trouble. Gas prices will not shock my pockets from cost-push inflationary pressure or affect my future budget plans (if any). The economy will rebound and I will be able to get a better job that pays more. Unemployment won't rise past 8%, and by the end of 2010, we expect unemployment to be 7%. It's all good."

Anyone believing that was an idiot.

I feel bad, but I am not sorry. We as a nation get what we deserve. We don't know what is going on, we have no right to get pissed off when it hits the fan. We want to let our leaders plan everything for us, then we take it on the chin when they make bad plans.

so why do you presist in doing just that.. and insisting the rest of us follow you?

You know, just because someone comes in and tells you they have a "new plan" doesn't mean they truly do. Everything you tout was tried already... prior to the depression.

"Obama knows what he's doing, I don't have to worry about anything. The stimulus package is going to work. My house price is going to rebound, Obama has a great new program for people in trouble. Gas prices will not shock my pockets from cost-push inflationary pressure or affect my future budget plans (if any). The economy will rebound and I will be able to get a better job that pays more. Unemployment won't rise past 8%, and by the end of 2010, we expect unemployment to be 7%. It's all good."

I feel bad, but I am not sorry. We as a nation get what we deserve. We don't know what is going on, we have no right to get pissed off when it hits the fan. We want to let our leaders plan everything for us, then we take it on the chin when they make bad plans.

We're all in this together.

True, but the Tea Party wants to make sure only a few rise above.

Sadly, they claim they are opposing the very forces they are strengthening with their every move -- more corporate power, which means more power to a very few wealthy and already powerful individuals.

[PLAYER57832]

Got sticker shock at the grocery store yesterday. My Folgers coffee is 13$ now, and my coffee mate creamer is 5$. I was going to make a lasagna dish, but calculated it would cost me 15$ (cheese 5$), without the meat!

Lasagna is no longer economically viable for me

I am going to make one last lasagna dish, and instead of eating it, I'm going to kill it. I owe my staple lasagna pan that much....after all we've been through.

R.I.P. Phatscotties World Famous Lasagna

You must live in a big city. Suggest you take your car, drive west and make a BIG shopping trip.

I get coffee fro $7.00 for a 3 pound can (a TRUE 3 pounds, too!) Skip the coffee mate palm oil crap... go for real milk instead, support your local farmers, not "indonesian palm oil farmers" (clarification, don't know precisely where coffee mate gets its supplies, but not much palm oil is made here in the US).

Oh, yeah... visit some farmer's markets for real cheese, or simply go online and order it.

Me --- I buy it for $2 or $2.50 a pound at my local market (no, suppliers are not local, but the milk products and processing are within the US).

OR, join a co-op. I don't know what is available where you live, but there should be several available. Many are vegetarian or natural food oriented, but they can save you big in costs.

[BigBallinStalin]

Got sticker shock at the grocery store yesterday. My Folgers coffee is 13$ now, and my coffee mate creamer is 5$. I was going to make a lasagna dish, but calculated it would cost me 15$ (cheese 5$), without the meat!

Lasagna is no longer economically viable for me

I am going to make one last lasagna dish, and instead of eating it, I'm going to kill it. I owe my staple lasagna pan that much....after all we've been through.

R.I.P. Phatscotties World Famous Lasagna

You must live in a big city. Suggest you take your car, drive west and make a BIG shopping trip.

I get coffee fro $7.00 for a 3 pound can (a TRUE 3 pounds, too!) Skip the coffee mate palm oil crap... go for real milk instead, support your local farmers, not "indonesian palm oil farmers" (clarification, don't know precisely where coffee mate gets its supplies, but not much palm oil is made here in the US).

Oh, yeah... visit some farmer's markets for real cheese, or simply go online and order it.

Me --- I buy it for $2 or $2.50 a pound at my local market (no, suppliers are not local, but the milk products and processing are within the US).

OR, join a co-op. I don't know what is available where you live, but there should be several available. Many are vegetarian or natural food oriented, but they can save you big in costs.

Why the nationalist (local) drum-beating?

Don't you feel any care in the world for those people who live in poorer countries? Why not buy their products for the cheaper price so that you can help even poorer people in this world? Why harbor such a nationalist, narrow-minded view?

[Juan_Bottom]

Don't you feel any care in the world for those people who live in poorer countries? Why not buy their products for the cheaper price so that you can help even poorer people in this world? Why harbor such a nationalist, narrow-minded view?

Because if you don't buy from your neighbors, they wont have any money to buy from you. I myself generally buy local first, then expand that outward.

[spurgistan]

Don't you feel any care in the world for those people who live in poorer countries? Why not buy their products for the cheaper price so that you can help even poorer people in this world? Why harbor such a nationalist, narrow-minded view?

Because if you don't buy from your neighbors, they wont have any money to buy from you. I myself generally buy local first, then expand that outward.

Also, it's food. Local food is fresh food. Local food is better for the environment (chiefly, less transportation pollution). Also, the globalization of food markets has had pretty intense effects on small farmers. Buy local, especially with food.

[Timminz]

Mass-produced, and highly transported food (specifically produce) has been cross-bred, and developed to have specific traits. Those traits are not for flavour, or nutritional content, but rather for fast, high-yields, and long shelf life. The food I can buy in my local supermarket, that's grown in California or Arizona, is not as healthy, nor as tasty as locally grown stuff, but it's cheaper, and available when local stuff isn't. If people can afford to spend a little bit more on food, and care about the flavour and nutritional quality of their food (not to mention the overall environmental impact of shipping food all the way across the continent on diesel exhaust), then they should absolutely be buying locally whenever they can.


There is value in more than just price per pound.

[Phatscotty]

Mass-produced, and highly transported food (specifically produce) has been cross-bred, and developed to have specific traits. Those traits are not for flavour, or nutritional content, but rather for fast, high-yields, and long shelf life. The food I can buy in my local supermarket, that's grown in California or Arizona, is not as healthy, nor as tasty as locally grown stuff, but it's cheaper, and available when local stuff isn't. If people can afford to spend a little bit more on food, and care about the flavour and nutritional quality of their food (not to mention the overall environmental impact of shipping food all the way across the continent on diesel exhaust), then they should absolutely be buying locally whenever they can.


There is value in more than just price per pound.

Beautiful post.

The same goes for buying American as opposed to foreign made. It's the most green you can go and beats shutting off a million lights.

[BigBallinStalin]

Don't you feel any care in the world for those people who live in poorer countries? Why not buy their products for the cheaper price so that you can help even poorer people in this world? Why harbor such a nationalist, narrow-minded view?

Because if you don't buy from your neighbors, they wont have any money to buy from you. I myself generally buy local first, then expand that outward.

Also, it's food. Local food is fresh food. Local food is better for the environment (chiefly, less transportation pollution). Also, the globalization of food markets has had pretty intense effects on small farmers. Buy local, especially with food.

So, if I'm a Canadian, I should buy local oranges, right?

[BigBallinStalin]

Don't you feel any care in the world for those people who live in poorer countries? Why not buy their products for the cheaper price so that you can help even poorer people in this world? Why harbor such a nationalist, narrow-minded view?

Because if you don't buy from your neighbors, they wont have any money to buy from you. I myself generally buy local first, then expand that outward.

1:
Buying locally doesn't guarantee that the money will be spent within the local market. The banking institution does the heavy lifting in money velocity, so the money actually goes many places--across many cities, States, and countries.

2:
People have money to spend on local goods primarily from their own income--which mainly comes from their own labor. One could posit that one should consume goods produced within one's own locality; however, if those products are more expensive then imports (which they usually always are), then all one is really doing is diminishing one's own real income (since more of one's income must be spent on more expensive local goods). Since one's real income has been decreased, one has less purchasing power, and with less purchasing power, one can't buy as much within their locality. What do?

[BigBallinStalin]

Mass-produced, and highly transported food (specifically produce) has been cross-bred, and developed to have specific traits. Those traits are not for flavour, or nutritional content, but rather for fast, high-yields, and long shelf life. The food I can buy in my local supermarket, that's grown in California or Arizona, is not as healthy, nor as tasty as locally grown stuff, but it's cheaper, and available when local stuff isn't. If people can afford to spend a little bit more on food, and care about the flavour and nutritional quality of their food (not to mention the overall environmental impact of shipping food all the way across the continent on diesel exhaust), then they should absolutely be buying locally whenever they can.


There is value in more than just price per pound.

Of course. Value is perceived quality divided by cost (in marketing terms). [Cost is what is given in exchange for the good--e.g. money]. And, value is subjectively defined, so I'm all good with this so far.

But, buying locally whenever one can doesn't always diminish overall environmental impact. That's just as assumption. The truth is that environment costs are largely unknown. So the justification for buying local for a reason, which empirically is unknown, is not a strong case.

For example, if I live in Iceland, what environmental costs are there from buying from a local yet inefficient orange farm in Iceland compared to buying imported Mexican oranges? Extremely difficult to calculate.

Couldn't the orange farms of Iceland be spent for more resourceful uses? Yes, but since we're buying local, we dismiss that more resourceful option. The same case is similar to cases in the US (but of varying degree depending on whichever scenario).

[spurgistan]

Don't you feel any care in the world for those people who live in poorer countries? Why not buy their products for the cheaper price so that you can help even poorer people in this world? Why harbor such a nationalist, narrow-minded view?

Because if you don't buy from your neighbors, they wont have any money to buy from you. I myself generally buy local first, then expand that outward.

Also, it's food. Local food is fresh food. Local food is better for the environment (chiefly, less transportation pollution). Also, the globalization of food markets has had pretty intense effects on small farmers. Buy local, especially with food.

So, if I'm a Canadian, I should buy local oranges, right?

Correct. Saying local food is generally preferable to imported food means that imported food should be banned. Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse