Second Rate Citizens

[Juan_Bottom]

This thread is a great example of the problem with the political system and the willful (at times) ignorance of people. JB and PS are both ostensibly in favor of not taking away certain rights (or perhaps all rights) from ex-convicts. What politician or political group is most likely to also be in favor of not taking away certain rights (or perhaps all rights) from ex-convicts? What politicians or political groups do JB and PS identify with or vote for?

We can make the educated assumption that JB voted Demorat and PS voted Republican. Neither of those political parties has demonstrated an interest in allowing ex-convincts to retain rights. So what gives?

Single-issue voting is for dumb people & I'm a historian.

[thegreekdog]

This thread is a great example of the problem with the political system and the willful (at times) ignorance of people. JB and PS are both ostensibly in favor of not taking away certain rights (or perhaps all rights) from ex-convicts. What politician or political group is most likely to also be in favor of not taking away certain rights (or perhaps all rights) from ex-convicts? What politicians or political groups do JB and PS identify with or vote for?

We can make the educated assumption that JB voted Demorat and PS voted Republican. Neither of those political parties has demonstrated an interest in allowing ex-convincts to retain rights. So what gives?

Single-issue voting is for dumb people & I'm a historian.

I don't disagree with that (except the historian part... and I also prefer to say "an historian" because I'm egotistical).

The problem is that the party I assume you vote for is not really in favor of anything you're in favor of. Except supporting unions.

[Juan_Bottom]

Just for the record, I voted for mostly Republicans in my local elections, and Obama. All my local winners were Republicans or Tea Partiers. And trust me, they do not work well together.

[thegreekdog]

Just for the record, I voted for mostly Republicans in my local elections, and Obama. All my local winners were Republicans or Tea Partiers. And trust me, they do not work well together.

Republicans are probably worse. Tea Partiers (at least the current iteration) are worse than Republicans.

All of my local winners were Republican.

[Juan_Bottom]

Dude, Tea Partiers won only the important posts here, then they gave this free money that we won for road projects back to the state of Illinois. We had this big plan to improve Route 20, which is covered in tar, AND THEY GAVE THE MONEY BACK. It killed off a few jobs, pissed some Republicans off.... A few years ago they did the same thing with some free park projects money. We planned to put up a handicap-accessible public-use boat landing, with a little park area, and the Tea Party sent the free money back.

Wait let me start over...
So the head of the Tea Party here owns the former elementary school in a town called Lena. He converted it into an apartment complex. It was his idea to give the money back to Illinois, and so the state passed it along to another community. That money is gone forever. So the Republican Party was understandably super pissed about it, and they tried to take his apartment complex away. They re-zoned the old playground,.. then fined the shit out of him for the old sewer hook up,.. it was hilarious. That fine was over $30K
That's the cost of a house and 10 acres out here.
I mean, yeah it was a great abuse of power, but we loved it.

[Woodruff]

Sounds like the government is way too big and has too many laws for every little thing, and the citizen is too small and rights are not respected much.

Do you ever step outside your rhetoric to actually THINK?

The problem is that citizens keep demanding that leaders "do something" about crime. AND. of you were honest, you would put yourself firmly into that group. Any talk about easing up on crime and criminals meets with instant attack and derision from you.

Does anyone remember my post a few years back about what I needed to do, and how many days off work I had to take, and how many times I needed to drive downtown, and how many times I needed to call and fax, and how long I sat on hold, and how many times I got wrong information and went through the run around, just to get a signature from a government agency?

I do remember your repeated, constant demands that government be shrunk, taxes lowered.

Cause and effect, cause and effect!

wut? I agree that we should do something about crime. LOL! I think we differ in that you think the answer is grow the state/restrict liberties.

You're not for restricting liberties, Phatscotty?

[Woodruff]

This thread is a great example of the problem with the political system and the willful (at times) ignorance of people. JB and PS are both ostensibly in favor of not taking away certain rights (or perhaps all rights) from ex-convicts. What politician or political group is most likely to also be in favor of not taking away certain rights (or perhaps all rights) from ex-convicts? What politicians or political groups do JB and PS identify with or vote for?

We can make the educated assumption that JB voted Demorat and PS voted Republican. Neither of those political parties has demonstrated an interest in allowing ex-convincts to retain rights. So what gives?

I covered that a few posts ago, in all-caps.

[PLAYER57832]

So, now that there's some agreement among y'all, surely y'all will select the politicians who will promote your favored policies, amirite?

WE CAN'T LET THE OTHER SIDE BE ELECTED!!!!

I think he was referring to the idea that there are more than two sides.

I mean, as long as Player and JB keep voting Democrat and PS and Night Strike keep voting Republican, we'll continue on this track.

In fact, I did not "vote Democratic". I voted for more than a few Republicans, both in this election and throughout my election career. But why bother with paying attention when labels are so much easier.

Some of my closest friends are Republicans ....

[PLAYER57832]

Sounds like the government is way too big and has too many laws for every little thing, and the citizen is too small and rights are not respected much.

Do you ever step outside your rhetoric to actually THINK?

The problem is that citizens keep demanding that leaders "do something" about crime. AND. of you were honest, you would put yourself firmly into that group. Any talk about easing up on crime and criminals meets with instant attack and derision from you.

Does anyone remember my post a few years back about what I needed to do, and how many days off work I had to take, and how many times I needed to drive downtown, and how many times I needed to call and fax, and how long I sat on hold, and how many times I got wrong information and went through the run around, just to get a signature from a government agency?

I do remember your repeated, constant demands that government be shrunk, taxes lowered.

Cause and effect, cause and effect!

wut? I agree that we should do something about crime. LOL! I think we differ in that you think the answer is grow the state/restrict liberties.

No, you want to cheer whenever any form of government is shrunk for any reason and then also complain when its not effective. In other words, a total hypocrit.

Also.. you are quite in favor of restricting other people's liberties. You don't consider anyone with differing values or opinions to truly have rights.

[Woodruff]

So, now that there's some agreement among y'all, surely y'all will select the politicians who will promote your favored policies, amirite?

WE CAN'T LET THE OTHER SIDE BE ELECTED!!!!

I think he was referring to the idea that there are more than two sides.

I mean, as long as Player and JB keep voting Democrat and PS and Night Strike keep voting Republican, we'll continue on this track.

In fact, I did not "vote Democratic". I voted for more than a few Republicans, both in this election and throughout my election career. But why bother with paying attention when labels are so much easier.

Like when you voted for Obama so that Romney wouldn't win? You mean like that?

[PLAYER57832]

Like when you voted for Obama so that Romney wouldn't win? You mean like that?

Last time I checked, Obama was a Democrat, not a Republican.

and I believe I have said more than a few times that the real battles between parties happen well below and before the Presidential election. How I vote is far less important than the fact that discussions I have had with both Republicans and Democrats have actually shaped legislation. And, I have actually had the ear of more elected Republicans than Democrats ironically enough, for a variety of personal reasons.


BUT.. the assumptions that many of you make to the contrary are pretty telling. Its not me that is polarized, its you all.

[Funkyterrance]

I took that as what Phatscotty meant. I think by "big", he meant "having too much control". Correct me if I'm wrong on that, Phatscotty.

In my opinion the government should be big enough to keep track of the efficiency of programs and such but not have the power to unduly force anyone's hand. I believe the government should be a presence but not an ominous one.

[BigBallinStalin]

So, now that there's some agreement among y'all, surely y'all will select the politicians who will promote your favored policies, amirite?

WE CAN'T LET THE OTHER SIDE BE ELECTED!!!!

I think he was referring to the idea that there are more than two sides.

I mean, as long as Player and JB keep voting Democrat and PS and Night Strike keep voting Republican, we'll continue on this track.

In fact, I did not "vote Democratic". I voted for more than a few Republicans, both in this election and throughout my election career. But why bother with paying attention when labels are so much easier.

Like when you voted for Obama so that Romney wouldn't win? You mean like that?

[thegreekdog]

So, now that there's some agreement among y'all, surely y'all will select the politicians who will promote your favored policies, amirite?

WE CAN'T LET THE OTHER SIDE BE ELECTED!!!!

I think he was referring to the idea that there are more than two sides.

I mean, as long as Player and JB keep voting Democrat and PS and Night Strike keep voting Republican, we'll continue on this track.

In fact, I did not "vote Democratic". I voted for more than a few Republicans, both in this election and throughout my election career. But why bother with paying attention when labels are so much easier.

Some of my closest friends are Republicans ....

Okay, except that, again Republicans aren't really in favor of letting ex-convicts have their rights back either.
Remember that thread where I asked people to name the differences between Obama and Romney and no one could name five? Apparently not.

[Woodruff]

Like when you voted for Obama so that Romney wouldn't win? You mean like that?

Last time I checked, Obama was a Democrat, not a Republican.

Yes. Which is exactly my point. I'm not sure why you bothered to point that out, to be honest.

and I believe I have said more than a few times that the real battles between parties happen well below and before the Presidential election.

If you really believed that, then you wouldn't have been such a hardliner of voting for Obama against those you CLAIMED to have more matching positions with.

How I vote is far less important than the fact that discussions I have had with both Republicans and Democrats have actually shaped legislation. And, I have actually had the ear of more elected Republicans than Democrats ironically enough, for a variety of personal reasons.

And nobody else in here does those things, of course.

BUT.. the assumptions that many of you make to the contrary are pretty telling. Its not me that is polarized, its you all.

Of course. I'm polarized. Polarized by being stuck in the middle.

Do you ever get the feeling that you sound exactly like Phatscotty? Because you really should.

[Woodruff]

Speaking of irrational sentencing:

http://www.wbur.org/2007/07/30/ma-revie ... y-minimums

[Woodruff]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ ... d=socialss

[Phatscotty]

So, now that there's some agreement among y'all, surely y'all will select the politicians who will promote your favored policies, amirite?

WE CAN'T LET THE OTHER SIDE BE ELECTED!!!!

I think he was referring to the idea that there are more than two sides.

I mean, as long as Player and JB keep voting Democrat and PS and Night Strike keep voting Republican, we'll continue on this track.

In fact, I did not "vote Democratic". I voted for more than a few Republicans, both in this election and throughout my election career. But why bother with paying attention when labels are so much easier.

Some of my closest friends are Republicans ....

Okay, except that, again Republicans aren't really in favor of letting ex-convicts have their rights back either.
Remember that thread where I asked people to name the differences between Obama and Romney and no one could name five? Apparently not.

I'm in favor of that, under certain circumstances...

I named 5, probably 10.

[Woodruff]

So, now that there's some agreement among y'all, surely y'all will select the politicians who will promote your favored policies, amirite?

WE CAN'T LET THE OTHER SIDE BE ELECTED!!!!

I think he was referring to the idea that there are more than two sides.

I mean, as long as Player and JB keep voting Democrat and PS and Night Strike keep voting Republican, we'll continue on this track.

In fact, I did not "vote Democratic". I voted for more than a few Republicans, both in this election and throughout my election career. But why bother with paying attention when labels are so much easier.

Some of my closest friends are Republicans ....

Okay, except that, again Republicans aren't really in favor of letting ex-convicts have their rights back either.
Remember that thread where I asked people to name the differences between Obama and Romney and no one could name five? Apparently not.

I'm in favor of that, under certain circumstances...
I named 5, probably 10.

I definitely don't remember that. Got a link?

[Woodruff]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/25/t ... -on-drugs/

[Woodruff]

Okay, except that, again Republicans aren't really in favor of letting ex-convicts have their rights back either.
Remember that thread where I asked people to name the differences between Obama and Romney and no one could name five? Apparently not.

I'm in favor of that, under certain circumstances...
I named 5, probably 10.

I definitely don't remember that. Got a link?

Well?

[Woodruff]

The ACLU agrees:

http://www.aclu.org/billions-dollars-wa ... ed-arrests

[Woodruff]

Okay, except that, again Republicans aren't really in favor of letting ex-convicts have their rights back either.
Remember that thread where I asked people to name the differences between Obama and Romney and no one could name five? Apparently not.

I'm in favor of that, under certain circumstances...
I named 5, probably 10.

I definitely don't remember that. Got a link?

Well?

Phatscotty? Not ignoring a legitimate question by chance...are you?

[Woodruff]

Okay, except that, again Republicans aren't really in favor of letting ex-convicts have their rights back either.
Remember that thread where I asked people to name the differences between Obama and Romney and no one could name five? Apparently not.

I'm in favor of that, under certain circumstances...
I named 5, probably 10.

I definitely don't remember that. Got a link?

Well?

Phatscotty? Not ignoring a legitimate question by chance...are you?

Phatscotty?

[nietzsche]

Okay, except that, again Republicans aren't really in favor of letting ex-convicts have their rights back either.
Remember that thread where I asked people to name the differences between Obama and Romney and no one could name five? Apparently not.

I'm in favor of that, under certain circumstances...
I named 5, probably 10.

I definitely don't remember that. Got a link?

Well?

Phatscotty? Not ignoring a legitimate question by chance...are you?

Phatscotty?

Woodruff, you should come to live chat. Phatscotty was just making fun of you because of this.