america

[Chris7He]

we didnt have german sicientists till the end of the war.

You should read our posts. We're talking about after the war. V3 rockets hit London during World War II, but it was WAY WAY too into the war and Germany was losing, bad.

[Napoleon Ier]

Russia was still facing the ruins of a civil war

hardly

but the point is pedantic

[Tyr]

but we already had the bomb at the end of the war

[Chris7He]

Russia was still facing the ruins of a civil war

hardly

but the point is pedantic

What? Russia had a huge civil war in which overthrew the monarchy. It was between the White Army and the Red Army. White supported democracy led by a Prince of the royal family (unpopular) and the Red was the people and parts of the old Russian army who supported a communist one. Capitalist nations did their best to support the White Army inbetween fighting with Germany.

[Chris7He]

Check this movie out.

http://www.jibjab.com/view/57489

[Napoleon Ier]

Russia was still facing the ruins of a civil war

hardly

but the point is pedantic

What? Russia had a huge civil war in which overthrew the monarchy. It was between the White Army and the Red Army. White supported democracy led by a Prince of the royal family (unpopular) and the Red was the people and parts of the old Russian army who supported a communist one. Capitalist nations did their best to support the White Army inbetween fighting with Germany.

Stalin however aceived pre-Revolution production levels several times over, was producing vehicles and aircraft in the tens of thousands every year, built a major chemical industry from scratch,constructed huge industrial complexes in the Russian plains from nothing (Magnitogorsk etc)
and had hugely successfully modernized vast sectors of Russia's Industry, and even gotten some success from the Kolhozes (albeit at horrendous human cost). The effects of the civil war were largely negligible, Sovdepia being in location of all the important infrastructures, which were largely undamaged by the White armies.

As I say, you are sofar right on most of the substance though, so my point is lightly pernickity.

[Tyr]

Russia was still facing the ruins of a civil war

hardly

but the point is pedantic

What? Russia had a huge civil war in which overthrew the monarchy. It was between the White Army and the Red Army. White supported democracy led by a Prince of the royal family (unpopular) and the Red was the people and parts of the old Russian army who supported a communist one. Capitalist nations did their best to support the White Army inbetween fighting with Germany.

Stalin however aceived pre-Revolution production levels several times over, was producing vehicles and aircraft in the tens of thousands every year, built a major chemical industry from scratch,constructed huge industrial complexes in the Russian plains from nothing (Magnitogorsk etc)
and had hugely successfully modernized vast sectors of Russia's Industry, and even gotten some success from the Kolhozes (albeit at horrendous human cost). The effects of the civil war were largely negligible, Sovdepia being in location of all the important infrastructures, which were largely undamaged by the White armies.

As I say, you are sofar right on most of the substance though, so my point is lightly pernickity.

every one of stalins projects was at an appalling human cost. especialiy since he abandoned his base with the landed peasents when he tried to take away their land

[Napoleon Ier]

every one of stalins projects was at an appalling human cost.

pretty much.

[Chris7He]

Look up the New Economic Policy. Lenin knew true communism couldn't work and tried this plan, but Stalin took over and scrapped that stuff. Stalin was a maniac. When you put a paranoid tyrant as a ruler mass murder is bound to happen.

[ignotus]

Look up the New Economic Policy. Lenin knew true communism couldn't work and tried this plan, but Stalin took over and scrapped that stuff. Stalin was a maniac. When you put a paranoid tyrant as a ruler mass murder is bound to happen.

yes, and that is the thing Lenin wrote about Stalin in his will.

[Tyr]

what did he write

im a little embarassed i dont know this already

[Chris7He]

Look up the New Economic Policy. Lenin knew true communism couldn't work and tried this plan, but Stalin took over and scrapped that stuff. Stalin was a maniac. When you put a paranoid tyrant as a ruler mass murder is bound to happen.

yes, and that is the thing Lenin wrote about Stalin in his will.

Lenin's right hand man was Stalin, but he wanted Trotsky to become the next ruler of Russia. Stalin massed a coup that forced Trotsky out of the country. Trotsky escaped to Mexico and wrote a book, but was later found shot in his bathtub (KGB).

[Chris7He]

what did he write

im a little embarassed i dont know this already

Because you're a dumbass.

[Tyr]

gee thanks i am glad my itelligence rests on an obscure peice of trivia

[ignotus]

what did he write

im a little embarassed i dont know this already

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenin's_Testament

[Napoleon Ier]

Look up the New Economic Policy. Lenin knew true communism couldn't work and tried this plan, but Stalin took over and scrapped that stuff. Stalin was a maniac. When you put a paranoid tyrant as a ruler mass murder is bound to happen.

I disagree, esteemed comrade , in that Lenin clearly states that NEP was "a step back before a great leap forward even further".

I believe, imho, that Lenin thought that NEP was an artificial re-creation of the Bourgeois Capitalist stage of Marxist doctrine.

Stalin, regardless of the human cost, undeniably acheived great things from a productivity perspective.

[ignotus]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenin's_Testament

[Chris7He]

gee thanks i am glad my itelligence rests on an obscure peice of trivia

It's not trivia. It's a mix of sectarian idealism and political debate topped off with plenty of World War era history.

[Chris7He]

Look up the New Economic Policy. Lenin knew true communism couldn't work and tried this plan, but Stalin took over and scrapped that stuff. Stalin was a maniac. When you put a paranoid tyrant as a ruler mass murder is bound to happen.

I disagree, esteemed comrade , in that Lenin clearly states that NEP was "a step back before a great leap forward even further".

I believe, imho, that Lenin thought that NEP was an artificial re-creation of the Bourgeois Capitalist stage of Marxist doctrine.

Stalin, regardless of the human cost, undeniably acheived great things from a productivity perspective.

I agree with the increase in production, but under the NEP farmers could sell surpluses and a great increase in agricultural productivity occurred.

[Bigfalcon65]

Look up the New Economic Policy. Lenin knew true communism couldn't work and tried this plan, but Stalin took over and scrapped that stuff. Stalin was a maniac. When you put a paranoid tyrant as a ruler mass murder is bound to happen.

I disagree, esteemed comrade , in that Lenin clearly states that NEP was "a step back before a great leap forward even further".

I believe, imho, that Lenin thought that NEP was an artificial re-creation of the Bourgeois Capitalist stage of Marxist doctrine.

Stalin, regardless of the human cost, undeniably acheived great things from a productivity perspective.

I agree with the increase in production, but under the NEP farmers could sell surpluses and a great increase in agricultural productivity occurred.

which in theory shouldve of fed the masses had stalin not killed them all

[Chris7He]

Look up the New Economic Policy. Lenin knew true communism couldn't work and tried this plan, but Stalin took over and scrapped that stuff. Stalin was a maniac. When you put a paranoid tyrant as a ruler mass murder is bound to happen.

I disagree, esteemed comrade , in that Lenin clearly states that NEP was "a step back before a great leap forward even further".

I believe, imho, that Lenin thought that NEP was an artificial re-creation of the Bourgeois Capitalist stage of Marxist doctrine.

Stalin, regardless of the human cost, undeniably acheived great things from a productivity perspective.

I agree with the increase in production, but under the NEP farmers could sell surpluses and a great increase in agricultural productivity occurred.

which in theory shouldve of fed the masses had stalin not killed them all

I'm sorry, but Stalin removed the NEP in favor of the Five-Year-Plan. I wish Lenin would have lived longer. Plenty of great things would have happened. He was against bigotry and racism and prejudice in all forms. Lenin was a man of the people. Too bad he was replaced with the maniac. Stalin raped communism.

[Napoleon Ier]

Look up the New Economic Policy. Lenin knew true communism couldn't work and tried this plan, but Stalin took over and scrapped that stuff. Stalin was a maniac. When you put a paranoid tyrant as a ruler mass murder is bound to happen.

I disagree, esteemed comrade , in that Lenin clearly states that NEP was "a step back before a great leap forward even further".

I believe, imho, that Lenin thought that NEP was an artificial re-creation of the Bourgeois Capitalist stage of Marxist doctrine.

Stalin, regardless of the human cost, undeniably acheived great things from a productivity perspective.

I agree with the increase in production, but under the NEP farmers could sell surpluses and a great increase in agricultural productivity occurred.

which in theory shouldve of fed the masses had stalin not killed them all

I'm sorry, but Stalin removed the NEP in favor of the Five-Year-Plan. I wish Lenin would have lived longer. Plenty of great things would have happened. He was against bigotry and racism and prejudice in all forms. Lenin was a man of the people. Too bad he was replaced with the maniac. Stalin raped communism.

errrrrrrr

Kronstadt?
Treatment of the clergy?
War Communism?

[Napoleon Ier]

gee thanks i am glad my itelligence rests on an obscure peice of trivia

"Comrade Stalin, having become Secretary-General, has unlimited authority concentrated in his hands, and I am not sure whether he will always be capable of using that authority with sufficient caution. Comrade Trotsky, on the other hand, as his struggle against the C.C. on the question of the People's Commissariat of Communications has already proved, is distinguished not only by outstanding ability. He is personally perhaps the most capable man in the present C.C., but he has displayed excessive self-assurance and shown excessive preoccupation with the purely administrative side of the work.

These two qualities of the two outstanding leaders of the present C.C. can inadvertently lead to a split, and if our Party does not take steps to avert this, the split may come unexpectedly."

"Stalin is too rude and this defect, although quite tolerable in our midst and in dealing among us Communists, becomes intolerable in a Secretary-General. That is why I suggest that the comrades think about a way of removing Stalin from that post and appointing another man in his stead who in all other respects differs from Comrade Stalin in having only one advantage, namely, that of being more tolerant, more loyal, more polite and more considerate to the comrades, less capricious, and so forth. This circumstance may appear to be a negligible detail. But I think that from the standpoint of safeguards against a split and from the standpoint of what I wrote above about the relationship between Stalin and Trotsky it is not a detail, but it is a detail which can assume decisive importance."

I believe this is what they refer to. My studies of Lenin's Russia date from awhile back though

[Chris7He]

I didn't say I wouldn't have lunch with the guy. I just meant to say he was a paranoid maniac. He did do great things, but Lenin could've topped the easily.

[Tyr]

i'll admit lenin could have taken russia places