young earth Creationism .. again

[Snorri1234]

Gould just died in 2002 maybe.

Maybe?

[john9blue]

The light from the stars is the only area of evolutionary explanation that I have yet to come up with a rational creationism-perspective on.

I would wager that it just so happens to fit your views perfectly, once you come up with it though.

Everybody does this. If you already accept a certain way of looking at things, it's more likely to you that you are wrong about one explanation than about the whole rest of your worldview. That's why people try to justify everything.

[john9blue]

Gould just died in 2002 maybe.

Maybe?

Lionz displays an odd avoidance of declarative statements.

[Night Strike]

The light from the stars is the only area of evolutionary explanation that I have yet to come up with a rational creationism-perspective on.

I would wager that it just so happens to fit your views perfectly, once you come up with it though.

Yeah it's awesome how it works.

But yet no one seems to care when evolutionists look at information and automatically assume that it had to come from random processes.

[Lionz]

What do I really know and who am I?

Adamantly claiming things as true as a result of reading that they are true can get people into trouble perhaps, but I might have read one or more thing that suggested Gould died in 2002.

[tzor]

J & NS,

The speed of light is not a constant and we are even at the tail end of an entropy related curve that started with light being automatic for all we know perhaps.

Also, should we assume that He did not create light coming all the way to earth from stars automatically regardless of how it has changed in terms of speed?

Even though it is not addressed to me, I have to comment on this one. Actually I have two comments.

The "speed" of light is a misnomer. Time is a dimension, just like the space is. The speed of light allows us to take distances in the time dimension and comapre them to the space dimension.

Second comment

Paul, a slave of God and apostle of Jesus Christ for the sake of the faith of God's chosen ones and the recognition of religious truth, in the hope of eternal life that God, who does not lie, promised before time began, who indeed at the proper time revealed his word in the proclamation with which I was entrusted by the command of God our savior, to Titus, my true child in our common faith: grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our savior.

God is not man that he should speak falsely, nor human, that he should change his mind. Is he one to speak and not act, to decree and not fulfill?

To make light in the middle of nowhere to give the impression that it hollographically goes back to sources that are not there is nothing but a cheap parlor trick ... it is a lie!

Tzor,

Humans have intelligently designed vehicles in order for them to navigate through a three dimensional plane of existance maybe. Did He not do the same thing?

What if humans were to give unicycles and bicycles and 2-wheel motorcycles and 3-wheel motorcycles and sports cars and pickup trucks and mac trucks intelligence and an ability to reproduce a variety with others of their kind and then they were sent to live on a planet for 6,000 years and bring forth variety? There might end up being theories having to do with common descent from unicycles.

The point is that humans build cars on an individual level, they are not self replicating. Giving them intelligence would probably cause the example to fail as it is easier to build a car than a living creature (we are only now starting to understand the operating system of DNA and how to reprogram life).

So riddle me this. Why did God give atrophied legs in the hind quarters of every whale and dolphin? Unlike unicycles and bicycles and 2-wheel motorcycles and 3-wheel motorcycles and sports cars and pickup trucks and mac trucks there are clear signs of evolutionary heirarchy in all creatures where features that are not needed are reduced and those that are needed are magnified. So back to my second point above.

To make a design to give the impression that it logically goes back to sources that are not there is nothing but a cheap parlor trick ... it is a lie!

God cannot lie. He saw the world and it was good. Therefore the universe cannot lie. We can lie, but not the universe. To dismiss the handiwork of God is to dismiss God himself.

[Lionz]

Tzor,

Would creating Adam with pubic hair be lying?

And these represent bones falsely claimed as being vestigial perhaps... bones used in mating that have muscles connected to them in nature perhaps.



Words above there that are not my own depending on definition at least and obviously so perhaps.

[tzor]

Tzor,

Would creating Adam with pubic hair be lying?

Do you know of any accurate photograph of Adam that would tell us if he had any? Personally the better question is whether or not he had a belly button.

[Lionz]

Would be interesting if he is portrayed in some of these maybe.

Red man and woman being offered something from a tree?































Snake with legs and man after just having eyes opened to stuff?









After learning about regret?

























Learning how to work the earth for food?



I've added censoring and there is even one or more source reference cropped off possibly. Want a source for something?

[PLAYER57832]

Evolutionary theory has actually done much in terms of persecution due to race perhaps. See a slideshow here? You might want to look for arrows towards the bottom of slides and click forward.

No. Evolutionary theory is not responsible for racism. People try to use anything to forward their beliefs.

With evolutionary theory, the justification for racism IS much better than it is for creationism. If you believe God created one man and one woman, then everybody, no matter their skin tone, actually came from one person, therefore every human is a member of the same race. If there were different evolutionary tracks, then it really IS legitimate to say that some people are lesser than others. The same devaluing of human life because of evolution can be applied to abortion, infanticide, genocide, and euthanasia.

No more than the idea that one, particular people is "chosen" and therefore superior to others. The same justification was used, is still espoused by many to mean that some folks are inherently superior. Similarly, some people still argue variations on the theme that those who are born into poorer conditions or with disabilities somehow "deserve" them and therefore do not "deserve" the same things as everyone else.

Though I am absolutely NOT suggesting you espouse any of the above, you definitely like to talk of your right to keep your own money, that you benefit from your work, etc and dismiss suggestions that people don't start out equal or get equal compensatio for work, etc. I have to feel you see the Bible as justification for those beliefs, just as I feel the Bible says almost the opposite.

The problem is not in evolution or religion, it is how either can be used.

And, regardless of implications. Truth is truth and fiction is fiction.

Human has a big ego. We haven't explored the galaxy and we're claiming to have the one and only god. That's so selfish imo. Reminds me how europe killed polytheism...

Aha. But if the young earth creationists are right then logically most of astronomy has to be a lie or an error too, since the entire observable universe can't be more than 12000 light years across with us at the centre (i.e. 600 light years in any direction).

They don't believe this information. The explanations are amazing feats of twisting truth in with fiction.

The light from the stars is the only area of evolutionary explanation that I have yet to come up with a rational creationism-perspective on. Every other area that I know about has either rational creation answers or irrational evolutionary answers.

Well, I would love to hear them. (seroiusly) I have yet to hear even one rational and true young earth explanation. And I have asked/looked many times and many places.

[Lionz]

PLAYER,

The speed of light is not a constant and we are even at the tail end of an entropy related curve that started with light being automatic for all we know perhaps. And should we assume that He did not simply create light coming all the way to earth from stars automatically regardless of how it has changed in terms of speed?

[jonesthecurl]

PLAYER,

The speed of light is not a constant and we are even at the tail end of an entropy related curve that started with light being automatic for all we know perhaps. And should we assume that He did not simply create light coming all the way to earth from stars automatically regardless of how it has changed in terms of speed?

Sure?
Are you actually stating something as a fact?
Are you slipping, maybe, or did the "peerhaps" relate to the whole sentence.
Oh, and yes it is.

[PLAYER57832]

- Is it not true that there either is or there is not one Creator of the heavens?

You have asked me this about 5-6 times already, you can ask me 100 more. I believe there is a creator of all, whom Christians call "God", as outlined in the Christian Bible. Anything not laid out in the Bible is a question. Some are answered by science, some are not.

- How many slides have you run through on here if you claim evolutionary theory has not inspired racism?

I never said that. I said it did not cause racism. People use all sorts of things to justify how they think. Racism has was around long before the theory of evolution.

- Fish have evolved at a rapid pace for thousands and thousands of years perhaps, but how about prove that He did not create various kinds of fish that have brought forth variety if you can? Whales and elephants are mammals perhaps, but what if all of these share common ancestry with one another besides one?

Fish did not evolve at a rapid pace for a mere thousands of years. As for the common ancestry, I believe the evidence shows one. As for God, yes, I believe he is behind evolution.

- You want to discuss the geologic column?

The so called geologic column was invented in the early 1800's and has quite a bit to do with Charles Lyell perhaps... maybe there is evidence that suggests he was not the biggest fan of religion ever and we can read stuff at least subtly attacking religion even in a book written by him that is called Principles of Geology.

Not much science dates before the 1800's, so its "invention" as you say (truly a discovery, not an invention) in the 1800's is plausible. I cannot be bothered to verify that detail. The beliefs of the first scientist to discuss it are irrelevant. An atheist, Christian and Hindu should all be able to look at the same data, in science, and find the same conclusions if they are true. Beleifs are irrelevant.

The fact is that the geologic column, that is, that the earth's soils and rocks and so forth are stratified into various layers and that these layers corrospond to various dates and events, is real and true and verified. That young earth creationist don't wish to belief it, like they wish to deny all transition fossils, is just irrelevant.

Did individuals not give layers a name and an age and one or more index fossil and are index fossils not used to determine layers? Maybe society in general has one or more incorrect understanding about the so called geologic column and there is limestone and shale and sandstone found at various layers in the earth. What does depth of earth have to do with it and would dating stata by fossils and fossils by strata not be a prime example of circular reasoning? If someone handed you a piece of limestone and asked you to tell them if it was 100 million-year-old Jurassic limestone or 600 million-year-old Cambrian limestone, you would do what?

To take the last question first, I cannot, not all Paleontologists or geologists could. However, someone who is knowledgeable about those rocks and time absolutely can. AND, if you were to take the time to listen and study the explanation, you would find that they speak the truth. Problem with young earth creationists is that they refuse to take the time, but just want to sit back and criticize and claim that scientists who have just don't know as much as they.

As far as the first part, my mind was rather spinning trying to tie it all together. Here is how it is done (roughly). First, it took a very long time for folks to realize that, for example, different colors and features in rocks corrosponded to various layers. It also took a long time for folks to realize that fossils could be found in specific groupings, that certain fossils were only found in rocks from a certain age, etc. (that is, some fossils are found throughout, but some are distinct to each time period) The verification and testing took on many forms, using some chemistry, some paleontology, etc. We are still learning. I only just saw a special where a geologist explained connections he found between the Cumberlands (I think.. might have been another easter formation) and Scotland.

But your assertion that it is all just a bunch of self-perpetuating errors is just wrong.

- You might not even believe in UCD

? University of Davis? If so, I have been there, yes.

, but should there not be literally billions of fossils of creatures in a transition between fish and land dwelling tetrapods if universal common descent is true? Is there any reason to assume that Panderichthys or Tiktaalik were anything other than aquatic and what has actually been found of Tulerpeton? Skull fragments, small belly scutes, an incomplete pectoral girdle, an incomplete forelimb and an incomplete hindlimb? It's simply a variety of alligator or crocodile maybe. And were remains of it not recovered from the Tula Region of Russia? It's ironically evidence for a preflood earth with above freezing temperatures across the planet perhaps.

You are again arguing details without even bothering to look at evidence. Someone has apparently told you there are issues here and rather than investigating, you just say "hey, if this (non expert) cannot answer, then that just shows how little evidence there is for evolution".

- This answersincreation page does not claim most Biblical scholars and Hebrew scholars interpret an unearthly time frame anywhere on it maybe. We should read a section called Exodus 20:10-11 and ask ourselves what it suggests to us perhaps. Who needs a guru to get a true message from scripture?

You want to say Exodus explains Genesis? No. Genesis explains Genesis.


The rest will have to wait, forgot about an appointment.

[Lionz]

J,

The word perhaps is in there to refer to that collectively perhaps. ; )

Is the speed of light a constant? http://www.spacedaily.com/news/lightspeed-99a.html

Maybe I should give PLAYER time to catch up.

[jonesthecurl]

J,

The word perhaps is in there to refer to that collectively perhaps. ; )

Is the speed of light a constant? http://www.spacedaily.com/news/lightspeed-99a.html

Maybe I will give PLAYER time to catch up.

If you accept what he is saying, you have to accept the Big Bang. His hypothesis grows out of the idea that it may be true that the early universe expanded faster than the "speed of light". Without a Big Bang, his theories are meaningless.

Also: nothing about his suggestions suggest reducing the estimated age of the universe by more than two million times.

[jay_a2j]

I wonder if you or anyone else who believes we evolved has taken into consideration a "common creator". If God designed all living creatures wouldn't it be likely that they would be similar is certain ways? Kind of the same way hand writing can be analyzed to prove that X person wrote the suicide note left behind. There is a "fingerprint", if you will, in the design or formation of the letters. Could the same be true of a God that creates many forms of life? Is it possible that a living God could have used the same basic blueprint to design the skeletal systems of all living things, hence giving the lay person reason to believe that evolution has occurred?


Riddle me this...

I love how this was ignored...like 3 pages back!?


Ya'll can stop sayin we related to other animals cause our common creator made us with similar skeletal systems. The debate is over....

[Snorri1234]

I wonder if you or anyone else who believes we evolved has taken into consideration a "common creator". If God designed all living creatures wouldn't it be likely that they would be similar is certain ways? Kind of the same way hand writing can be analyzed to prove that X person wrote the suicide note left behind. There is a "fingerprint", if you will, in the design or formation of the letters. Could the same be true of a God that creates many forms of life? Is it possible that a living God could have used the same basic blueprint to design the skeletal systems of all living things, hence giving the lay person reason to believe that evolution has occurred?


Riddle me this...

I love how this was ignored...like 3 pages back!?


Ya'll can stop sayin we related to other animals cause our common creator made us with similar skeletal systems. The debate is over....

Uhm....what exactly is your point?

[jay_a2j]

I wonder if you or anyone else who believes we evolved has taken into consideration a "common creator". If God designed all living creatures wouldn't it be likely that they would be similar is certain ways? Kind of the same way hand writing can be analyzed to prove that X person wrote the suicide note left behind. There is a "fingerprint", if you will, in the design or formation of the letters. Could the same be true of a God that creates many forms of life? Is it possible that a living God could have used the same basic blueprint to design the skeletal systems of all living things, hence giving the lay person reason to believe that evolution has occurred?


Riddle me this...

I love how this was ignored...like 3 pages back!?


Ya'll can stop sayin we related to other animals cause our common creator made us with similar skeletal systems. The debate is over....

Uhm....what exactly is your point?

That IS the point. How are evolutionists saying this life form is related to that life form? The skeletal system????? Well duh? Did you expect God to make some out of ALUMINUM BONES? Of course they would be similar in DESIGN if they came from the same DESIGNER! Shape,texture, alignment..... same designer.

[Lionz]

J,

Are there not cosmology problems that Moffat has addressed whether we completely agree on something or not?

No scientific law requires the speed of light to be constant.6 Many simply assume that it is constant, and of course, changing old ways of thinking is sometimes difficult. Russian cosmologist, V. S. Troitskii, at the Radiophysical Research Institute in Gorky, is also questioning some old beliefs. He concluded, independently of Setterfield, that the speed of light was 10 billion times faster at time zero!7 Furthermore, he attributed the cosmic microwave background radiation and most redshifts to this rapidly decreasing speed of light. Setterfield reached the same conclusion concerning redshifts by a different method. If either Setterfield or Troitskii is correct, the big bang theory will fall (with a big bang).

Other cosmologists are proposing an enormous decay in the speed of light.8 Several of their theoretical problems with the big bang theory are solved if light once traveled millions of times faster.9

Maybe missing one or more hyperlink and misquoted and you should check here... http://creationscience.com/onlinebook/FAQ16.html

How about check out some slides starting here and clicking right arrows? Light has actually been stopped before? http://www.arrivalofthefittest.com/slid ... de0961.htm

[jay_a2j]

J,

Are there not cosmology problems that Moffat has addressed whether we completely agree on something or not?

How about check out some slides starting here and clicking right arrows? Light has actually been stopped before? http://www.arrivalofthefittest.com/slid ... de0961.htm

Who is "J"?



I would like to change my user name, just to see if I can get Woody all worked up without him knowing it's me!

[Lionz]

Referring to jonesthecurl and should have been more specific maybe. : )

[Snorri1234]

That IS the point. How are evolutionists saying this life form is related to that life form? The skeletal system????? Well duh? Did you expect God to make some out of ALUMINUM BONES? Of course they would be similar in DESIGN if they came from the same DESIGNER! Shape,texture, alignment..... same designer.

Uh yeah dude but the entire idea is that we do not assume a Creator God. Science ignores supernatural explanations for the same reason that you don't believe in Last Thursdayism. "A wizard did it" is not a good explanation because you can't verify it. This does not mean it can't be true, but for obvious reasons we're not going to assume it's true a priori.


By the way, I would totally expect God to make aluminum bones. You aren't crediting your Infinite Supreme Being with a lot of creativity dude.

[jonesthecurl]

I think Moffat would choke on his coirnflakes if he thought he was being quoted in support of a Young Earth.
He didn't like the necessity of introducing the theoretical "Dark Matter" into the picture - I think for the most part astrophysicists have now accepted its existence.

if your proposals are in agreement with his apart from minor details, Noddy goes to Toyland is a serious travel documentary.

[tzor]

The speed of light is not a constant ...

I'm in a musical mood, so I'll just sing "Bang, Bang, Maxwell's silver hammer came down on his head. Bang, Bang, Maxwell's silver made sure he was dead."

One of the peculiarities of classical electromagnetism is that it is difficult to reconcile with classical mechanics, but it is compatible with special relativity. According to Maxwell's equations, the speed of light in a vacuum is a universal constant, dependent only on the electrical permittivity and magnetic permeability of free space. This violates Galilean invariance, a long-standing cornerstone of classical mechanics.

[silvanricky]

or even better the chances of player actually deciding which side of the debate she is on instead of just taking bits of each side to make her own fantasy

After reading through pages of this thread, this was the funniest line I've read. Definitely sig worthy