The Death Penalty

[reminisco]

oh, and to head off any of your fucking bullshit "evidence" don't bother.

i've seen Loose Change. i know how full of shit it is. the guys who made it know NOTHING of structural engineering, or basic fucking physics.

you piece of shit. you make me fucking sick.

you may as well have hit the towers yourself you fucking sympathizer.

i hope you fucking choke on your self-righteous conspiracy theory bullshit.

[got tonkaed]

although i dont want to diminish what must have been a very traumatic experience or mock whatever suffering has resulted from it...his sig is a sarcastic jest not his actual belief.

[Neoteny]

oh, and to head off any of your fucking bullshit "evidence" don't bother.

i've seen Loose Change. i know how full of shit it is. the guys who made it know NOTHING of structural engineering, or basic fucking physics.

you piece of shit. you make me fucking sick.

you may as well have hit the towers yourself you fucking sympathizer.

i hope you fucking choke on your self-righteous conspiracy theory bullshit.

Once you've been here awhile, you'll find the people who actually do believe that stuff. They are around, but Snorri isn't one of them. I can give you pointers on who to avoid as far as conspiracy theories go, if you like.

[The Weird One]

1.) dagip
2.)xtratabasco [permanent forum ban, but he still plays games]

[reminisco]

although i dont want to diminish what must have been a very traumatic experience or mock whatever suffering has resulted from it...his sig is a sarcastic jest not his actual belief.

in that case, it's a completely tasteless joke, and he should change it anyway.

but it's not my problem. not really. i guess i shouldn't have flipped out on the forum.

but still. try and make that claim in Manhattan, and watch how long you manage to keep your motherfucking teeth afterwards.

and yeah, actually... 9/11 WAS a conspiracy. a conspiracy perpetrated by 12 men.

NOT THE USA. and i won't argue it here.

so fine, perhaps i misjudged Snorri, but it's not apparent that's sarcastic. as you all know (or at least SHOULD know by now) text is tone deaf. sarcasm doesn't come across a text based medium.

so the joke isn't funny. go f*ck yourself for the shitty joke, then. fucking mocking the deaths of my friends.

an asshole move no matter how you slice it. i could make jokes about things in European history that might still be sensitive issues. but i'm above that.

[Symmetry]

His sig looks like a quote from another person to me. It may not be funny to you, but you've walked into the middle of a conversation here and started screaming at a guy who would take your side on the issue.

I know people who died in 9/11 too. I lived in upstate NY earlier in my life. I hold the same opinions you do. I don't think of myself as a policeman for everything related to the twin towers though.

You're upset, which is fine, but you're also very wrong here.

[Neoteny]

although i dont want to diminish what must have been a very traumatic experience or mock whatever suffering has resulted from it...his sig is a sarcastic jest not his actual belief.

in that case, it's a completely tasteless joke, and he should change it anyway.

but it's not my problem. not really. i guess i shouldn't have flipped out on the forum.

but still. try and make that claim in Manhattan, and watch how long you manage to keep your motherfucking teeth afterwards.

and yeah, actually... 9/11 WAS a conspiracy. a conspiracy perpetrated by 12 men.

NOT THE USA. and i won't argue it here.

so fine, perhaps i misjudged Snorri, but it's not apparent that's sarcastic. as you all know (or at least SHOULD know by now) text is tone deaf. sarcasm doesn't come across a text based medium.

so the joke isn't funny. go f*ck yourself for the shitty joke, then. fucking mocking the deaths of my friends.

an asshole move no matter how you slice it. i could make jokes about things in European history that might still be sensitive issues. but i'm above that.

Hm. I'm glad you're above mocking other countries for past incidents. That puts you above quite a few people around here. I ask that you let Snorri slide on this one. The conspiracy theories were getting to the point of absolute absurdity and the entire concept became a joke. I'm sure there is no disrespect intended, especially since it is in the victims' defense.

[Skittles!]

oh, and to head off any of your fucking bullshit "evidence" don't bother.

i've seen Loose Change. i know how full of shit it is. the guys who made it know NOTHING of structural engineering, or basic fucking physics.

you piece of shit. you make me fucking sick.

you may as well have hit the towers yourself you fucking sympathizer.

i hope you fucking choke on your self-righteous conspiracy theory bullshit.

And now you know how all those countries that the US of A has bombed over the years feel. Congrats.

[Neoteny]

oh, and to head off any of your fucking bullshit "evidence" don't bother.

i've seen Loose Change. i know how full of shit it is. the guys who made it know NOTHING of structural engineering, or basic fucking physics.

you piece of shit. you make me fucking sick.

you may as well have hit the towers yourself you fucking sympathizer.

i hope you fucking choke on your self-righteous conspiracy theory bullshit.

And now you know how all those countries that the US of A has bombed over the years feel. Congrats.

Feeling antagonistic today?

[Skittles!]

oh, and to head off any of your fucking bullshit "evidence" don't bother.

i've seen Loose Change. i know how full of shit it is. the guys who made it know NOTHING of structural engineering, or basic fucking physics.

you piece of shit. you make me fucking sick.

you may as well have hit the towers yourself you fucking sympathizer.

i hope you fucking choke on your self-righteous conspiracy theory bullshit.

And now you know how all those countries that the US of A has bombed over the years feel. Congrats.

Feeling antagonistic today?

No, but I do wish some US of A citizens will get over it because other countries has suffered a lot worst from those exact same citizens.

[unriggable]

oh, and to head off any of your fucking bullshit "evidence" don't bother.

i've seen Loose Change. i know how full of shit it is. the guys who made it know NOTHING of structural engineering, or basic fucking physics.

you piece of shit. you make me fucking sick.

you may as well have hit the towers yourself you fucking sympathizer.

i hope you fucking choke on your self-righteous conspiracy theory bullshit.

And now you know how all those countries that the US of A has bombed over the years feel. Congrats.

Feeling antagonistic today?

No, but I do wish some US of A citizens will get over it because other countries has suffered a lot worst from those exact same citizens.

I guess the WTC is mainland America's hymen, then - just got the country broken in.

[Snorri1234]

although i dont want to diminish what must have been a very traumatic experience or mock whatever suffering has resulted from it...his sig is a sarcastic jest not his actual belief.

so fine, perhaps i misjudged Snorri, but it's not apparent that's sarcastic. as you all know (or at least SHOULD know by now) text is tone deaf. sarcasm doesn't come across a text based medium.

Well, it's from some time ago when the forum was full of 9/11 conspiracy threads. Some guy came into one thread and posted his only post as that.

But lighten up, the quote isn't saying 9/11 wasn't a horrible thing to happen, it just points the finger at bush.

[Symmetry]

So- back to the point...

The death penalty is:

A) open to abuse in terms of whatever a population terms criminal- democrats and unionists in China, black people in the US, reformists in Iran, and others. It's not an equal process.

B) open to mistrials. You may not like the fact that a horrible mass muderer gets to live his life while his victims are dead, but the system still kills innocent people.

C) can't be sped up. There are too many errors already, and many of them can't be caught until a great number of years later because of the emotional demand for completion.

D) is cruel. The evidence suggests that most methods of execution are horribly painful. By all means advocate torture as a punishment if you like, but don't criticize other nation states that use torture to enforce their laws. And don't expect people to sympathize with you.

E) uneconomic- a poor argument, but one that comes up often on the pro-death penalty side. It's been shown over and over to be more expensive to condemn someone to death row than to keep them in prison. Plus, see point C)

F) is immoral. Deciding to take someone's life, knowing all of the above, is an abuse of humanity based on your anger or outrage. These are the emotions that most people commit terrible crimes under.

G) is a poor, poor deterrent. A few recent studies have suggested that it can be a deterrent, but the deterrent effect, even if you take the studies at full value (and ignore the ones that argue the other way), are pretty negligible in comparison to countries without the penalty.

There are so many other reasons why it's a bad idea. I've kept the explanations short here, but, let's face it- most people who support the death penalty do so out of hatred. A hatred for someone who hurt them, for someone with a different culture, for someone who hurt a friend, for someone they can't understand...Even when criminality is proven beyond reasonable doubt, this motive is the one that decides between prison and death in far too many cases to count.

[Napoleon Ier]

Traitors deserve death. I look forward to watching Sarkozy and the European criminals dancing from the end of a yardarm.

Furthermore, we are fighting a war. all ennemy combatants in Gitmo must be given fair trial, but if found guilty, a public execution in Time Square is in order.

[reminisco]

And now you know how all those countries that the US of A has bombed over the years feel. Congrats.

Feeling antagonistic today?

No, but I do wish some US of A citizens will get over it because other countries has suffered a lot worst from those exact same citizens.

classic logical fallacy. first, you're starting with an assumption, that my heart does not break for the innocent lives taken by the USA -- often written off as "collateral damage".

second, you go from the general to the individual. classic break in logic. something perpetrated by the USA does not mean an individual citizen did it himself or herself.

neither does it mean it was done with an individual's support. I was born in the USA. that's not my fault. i live under the rule of a representative government. i vote in order to make my voice heard, but what the representatives do is not a reflection on me as an individual or what i think or feel.

don't forget, Skittles, your Australian government is involved in this whole GWOT mess too.

i know this is all off topic, and i'm sorry for hijacking the thread. i blew my top on this forum last night after a few too many slugs of Jack, and i shouldn't have.

Snorri, I'm sorry I flipped out. I hope you'll accept my apology and know that although the emotion was real, i haven't any real bile in the back of my throat for you as an individual.

the idea, however, is abhorrent and on that i do take issue. Bush wasn't behind the events of 9/11. the biggest and simplest reason why it wasn't an inside job is that there would have been too many people involved in such a plot, and there is NO WAY every SINGLE ONE OF THEM would have kept quiet this long. plus, the agencies that would have had to be involved would include overlap through family or friends to the victims of the plot.

so there's no way it could have happened that way. someone would have blown the whistle, either before or after the attacks -- they wouldn't be able to live with the knowledge of having killed their own people. secrets can only be kept by a few. when too many get involved, the leaks start -- as history has proven again and again.

add to that all of the forensic evidence corroborating that the events occurred the way the record of them states, one can only blame Bush for being asleep at the switch, and not responding to the warnings accordingly.

further, he deserves criticism for reacting to the events too extremely. but this is all a discussion for another thread, and one I won't participate in.

so that's that.

[Snorri1234]

Snorri, I'm sorry I flipped out. I hope you'll accept my apology and know that although the emotion was real, i haven't any real bile in the back of my throat for you as an individual.

No problems mate.

the idea, however, is abhorrent and on that i do take issue. Bush wasn't behind the events of 9/11. the biggest and simplest reason why it wasn't an inside job is that there would have been too many people involved in such a plot, and there is NO WAY every SINGLE ONE OF THEM would have kept quiet this long. plus, the agencies that would have had to be involved would include overlap through family or friends to the victims of the plot.

Yeah, doesn't stop the loonies believing it though. We tried to reason but in the end it got so far out of hand the guy who made most of the threads was banned from the forum.