james o'keefe

[pimpdave]

OH NO! THERE'S A PECK STANDING HERE WITH AN ACORN POINTED AT ME!

Somebody please catch my reference.

[HapSmo19]

willow?

[Neoteny]

So is this ACORNgate? Lousianagate? O'Keefegate?

Watergate redux?

EDIT: Also, these men are clearly terrorists. Truth serum and military tribunal.

[Neoteny]

I'm just confused that O'Keefe was videotaping his buddy commit a felony. What was he planning to do with that tape? Did he actually feel like he'd get away with a felony if he got some meat on Landrieu? Sad thing is, it could have been possible, what with nobody really caring about hacked e-mails and whatever.

Ah yes, Climategategate.

[thegreekdog]

So is this ACORNgate? Lousianagate? O'Keefegate?

Watergate redux?

EDIT: Also, these men are clearly terrorists. Truth serum and military tribunal.

HA! I was thinking the same thing...

But, they're citizens. I still don't know whether the Constitution's guarantees apply to non-citizens.

[Snorri1234]

So, after all that, we're in agreement... sweet. A pleasure as always, Mr. Surreal.

ACORN the organization did do something wrong.

No you're not in agreement. ACORN did nothing wrong. What on earth could they have done about this registration-fraud that they didn't already do?

[thegreekdog]

So, after all that, we're in agreement... sweet. A pleasure as always, Mr. Surreal.

ACORN the organization did do something wrong.

No you're not in agreement. ACORN did nothing wrong. What on earth could they have done about this registration-fraud that they didn't already do?

Seriously, this is getting ludicrous.

FUCKING ACORN EMPLOYEES ATTEMPTED TO ENGAGE IN VOTER REGISTRATION FRAUD!!! WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?!?!

MORE EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!

Edit - Look, is this one of those things where you're saying, "Hey, ACORN saw that their employees/volunteers were trying to defraud the election process and ACORN caught them before they could." Because if it is... ridiculous.

[Snorri1234]

So, after all that, we're in agreement... sweet. A pleasure as always, Mr. Surreal.

ACORN the organization did do something wrong.

No you're not in agreement. ACORN did nothing wrong. What on earth could they have done about this registration-fraud that they didn't already do?

Seriously, this is getting ludicrous.

FUCKING ACORN EMPLOYEES ATTEMPTED TO ENGAGE IN VOTER REGISTRATION FRAUD!!! WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?!?!

MORE EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!

"Volunteers" and that's exactly my point. They aren't ACORN any more than the intern getting coffee at your firm is in fact your firm. If that intern starts stealing stuff and is reported by your firm to the police do you think it would be fair of me to call your firm a corrupt, criminal organization?


ACORN did exactly the right thing here in all aspects. Unless you admit that ACORN did nothing wrong here you are not in agreement and also dumb.

[thegreekdog]

Sigh...

Here... I hope this is non-partisan enough for your viewing pleasure...

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008 ... tions.html

Some highlights...
- ACORN workers have been convicted of submitting false voter registration forms in Colrado Springs, Kansas City, King County, Las Vegas, Wisconsin, Missouri, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Indiana.
- The FBI is investigating any evidence of a coordinated national issue.

The rest of this stuff in the article debunks the conservative obsession with ACORN (which Sultan has also put in his posts on this).

The point here is that ACORN workers have been investigated on numerous occasions, and the FBI may or may not be investigating. I don't know if the president of ACORN is telling his employees to go commit voter registration fraud; but it's occuring and it's occurred a number of times in a number of states. So, perhaps the ACORN manual covers this; but perhaps, on the other hand, WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE GETTING CHARGED AND CONVICTED ALL THE FUCKING TIME YOU SHOULD DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT!!!

[Snorri1234]

The point here is that ACORN workers have been investigated on numerous occasions, and the FBI may or may not be investigating. I don't know if the president of ACORN is telling his employees to go commit voter registration fraud; but it's occuring and it's occurred a number of times in a number of states. So, perhaps the ACORN manual covers this; but perhaps, on the other hand, WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE GETTING CHARGED AND CONVICTED ALL THE FUCKING TIME YOU SHOULD DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT!!!

Yeah but the problem is that it's really hard to prevent attempted voterfraud. You hand out forms to volunteers and all they have to do to commit registration fraud is fill in the papers themselves. It's ridiculously easy.

Sure, relying on volunteers and paying them for each filled out form they hand over is risky but how else are they going to do it? They could get better employees and spend more money on educating them why it's such a dumb idea to try fraud, but that costs money and diminishes what they want to do, i.e. get more people to vote.


Don't forget though that A LOT of volunteers and employees didn't try to fraud ACORN. The fact that it occured several times is simply because it's so easy and seems really easy to get away with if you know nothing about the process behind voting. I wouldn't think the volunteers are all much up to date about how hard it is to get away with registration fraud, hell you and I only know it because we read the news but I'm sure the president of ACORN is well aware of it.

[thegreekdog]

Well, he should be aware of it now and taking steps to correct it... considering the government is getting a lot of pressure to come down on ACORN with both feet.

[Snorri1234]

Well, he should be aware of it now and taking steps to correct it... considering the government is getting a lot of pressure to come down on ACORN with both feet.

Yes but how is he supposed to correct it without damaging the actual good work the organization does? Especially since it is so hard to prevent because it's so easy to do, and because the people trying get caught anyway.


Besides, I doubt it will be much of a problem in the future. Everybody now knows it's a dumb thing to try.

[MeDeFe]

tgd, you're being a tool.

[thegreekdog]

Well, he should be aware of it now and taking steps to correct it... considering the government is getting a lot of pressure to come down on ACORN with both feet.

Yes but how is he supposed to correct it without damaging the actual good work the organization does? Especially since it is so hard to prevent because it's so easy to do, and because the people trying get caught anyway.


Besides, I doubt it will be much of a problem in the future. Everybody now knows it's a dumb thing to try.

Yeah, you'd think the volunteers would get the point...

In any event... O'Keefe - more of a scumbag for breaking & entering, or more of a scumbag for banning Lucky Charms?

[thegreekdog]

tgd, you're being a tool.

EDIT - I just like fighting with Sultan... it's fun. We get all these really good quotes.

[SultanOfSurreal]

i would like to take this time to point out that ACORN is in no way a "liberal" organization. they are a voter registration organization. they help the disenfranchised back into the democratic process by helping them register to vote. they accomplish this by reaching out to poor, largely ethnic, neighborhoods, where dis-involvement, apathy, and non-registration are highest. these people do tend to vote for democrats, but ACORN's goal is to get people to vote, period, not to get people to vote a particular way.

that there exist such pervasive institutional biases disenfranchising the urban poor should give us all pause. that conservatives attack organizations trying to help these people become more involved should also give us pause. how concerned are republicans with the plight of the working poor? not enough to risk letting them vote, apparently.

[rockfist]

The funny thing is that Sultan actually believes his own bullshit.

I'll give you that some ACORN members are only interested in getting more people involved in the voting process. I won't give you that a good portion of the organization isn't promoting the Democrat party.

I'll tell you why those people tend to vote Democrat...because they are low information voters and low information voters tend to vote Democrat.

[SultanOfSurreal]

The funny thing is that Sultan actually believes his own bullshit.

I'll give you that some ACORN members are only interested in getting more people involved in the voting process. I won't give you that a good portion of the organization isn't promoting the Democrat party.

I'll tell you why those people tend to vote Democrat...because they are low information voters and low information voters tend to vote Democrat.

oh thank god your stupid face full of dumb fucking opinions is here

[rockfist]

Yup you can be sure that when you defend ACORN I will be there to laugh at you.

[SultanOfSurreal]

Yup you can be sure that when you defend ACORN I will be there to laugh at you.

i know that getting black people to vote is totes offensive to you but it's not against the law so if you could tone down the whole smug superiority thing that would be awesome

thanks

[rockfist]

Ah the race card, when there is no valid reason to back up your position and you know you are totally outgunned play it against conservatives to change the topic of the dispute and make them defend against a negative. Go re-read your issues of the Daily Worker you knuckle dragger. If you want I can link send you an online version so they aren't semen stained.

[Neoteny]

Deflection via accusation of deflection?

[rockfist]

Nope. It just isn't worth responding to. I never said anything about minorities. He did.

[SultanOfSurreal]

Ah the race card, when there is no valid reason to back up your position and you know you are totally outgunned play it against conservatives to change the topic of the dispute and make them defend against a negative. Go re-read your issues of the Daily Worker you knuckle dragger. If you want I can link send you an online version so they aren't semen stained.

look, i asserted that ACORN helps register ethnic urban poor to vote and you came back saying that's bad because... the ethnic urban poor are too stupid to vote, or something. or that helping them is somehow terrible because they don't think the same way as you do

so i just wanted to be clear here, that you're against re-enfranchising black people, because you think they're stupid

[Woodruff]

tgd, you're being a tool.

EDIT - I just like fighting with Sultan... it's fun. We get all these really good quotes.

But if (nay...when) he gets banned because of a response he makes to you, will it be worth it?