The REAL worry

[rockfist]

I'm bright enough to recognize that aggressively starting unnecessary wars and shredding the Constitution via the Patriot Act are easily worse than socialism.

The war will end. The patriot act can be repealed or modified. Once the number of people drawing benefits from Government exceeds the number paying for them, it will be nearly impossible to undo, thus socialism is worse.

[Woodruff]

I'm bright enough to recognize that aggressively starting unnecessary wars and shredding the Constitution via the Patriot Act are easily worse than socialism.

The war will end. The patriot act can be repealed or modified. Once the number of people drawing benefits from Government exceeds the number paying for them, it will be nearly impossible to undo, thus socialism is worse.

Why do you believe the Patriot Act "can be repealed or modified" but that the socialism "will be nearly impossible to undo"? On what basis do you make that claim? Because from my vantage point, both are laws that can be equally repealed or modified or not repealed or modified. I suspect rather that it is your personal distaste for the term "socialism" that has led you to believe it will be more difficult to be repealed or modified.

Further, I would suggest that we will NEVER be out of Iraq. Hell, we're still in Germany and Japan.

[jay_a2j]

Further, I would suggest that we will NEVER be out of Iraq. Hell, we're still in Germany and Japan.

Oh we'll be out of Iraq. When the economy crumbles into a heap of dust. We won't be able to finance a foreign war. Then we can be just like Venezuela with Obama at the helm.

[Nobunaga]

I'm bright enough to recognize that aggressively starting unnecessary wars and shredding the Constitution via the Patriot Act are easily worse than socialism.

The war will end. The patriot act can be repealed or modified. Once the number of people drawing benefits from Government exceeds the number paying for them, it will be nearly impossible to undo, thus socialism is worse.

Why do you believe the Patriot Act "can be repealed or modified" but that the socialism "will be nearly impossible to undo"? On what basis do you make that claim? Because from my vantage point, both are laws that can be equally repealed or modified or not repealed or modified. I suspect rather that it is your personal distaste for the term "socialism" that has led you to believe it will be more difficult to be repealed or modified.

Further, I would suggest that we will NEVER be out of Iraq. Hell, we're still in Germany and Japan.

... You weren't talking to me, but that's never stopped me before.

... What does any citizen get for free from the Patriot Act? It's not an entitlement. That is the answer.

... George Will explains it well, if you care to read.

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/will032410.php3

[Snorri1234]

I DO NOT, let me re-phrase that, DO NOT trust the US government. And how can ANY American with all the slimy deals being made to get laws passed!

... And let's not forget that the new health care "reform" exempts those who voted on it, and their staffs, from having to participate in it.

What? They already have insurance anyway right?

[Woodruff]

I'm bright enough to recognize that aggressively starting unnecessary wars and shredding the Constitution via the Patriot Act are easily worse than socialism.

The war will end. The patriot act can be repealed or modified. Once the number of people drawing benefits from Government exceeds the number paying for them, it will be nearly impossible to undo, thus socialism is worse.

Why do you believe the Patriot Act "can be repealed or modified" but that the socialism "will be nearly impossible to undo"? On what basis do you make that claim? Because from my vantage point, both are laws that can be equally repealed or modified or not repealed or modified. I suspect rather that it is your personal distaste for the term "socialism" that has led you to believe it will be more difficult to be repealed or modified.

Further, I would suggest that we will NEVER be out of Iraq. Hell, we're still in Germany and Japan.

... You weren't talking to me, but that's never stopped me before.

Me either, so I don't mind. <grin>

... What does any citizen get for free from the Patriot Act? It's not an entitlement. That is the answer.

The REAL answer is what does the GOVERNMENT get for free from the Patriot Act? They are, after all, the ones who would be doing the repealing, and they seem to like it JUST FINE.

Now, I DO like George Will a great deal, and I tend to agree with him a lot. I'm not even saying he's wrong, but my point is that "socialism" is just as easy to repeal as the Patriot Act is...and more likely, at this point by a large margin.

[Nobunaga]

I'm bright enough to recognize that aggressively starting unnecessary wars and shredding the Constitution via the Patriot Act are easily worse than socialism.

The war will end. The patriot act can be repealed or modified. Once the number of people drawing benefits from Government exceeds the number paying for them, it will be nearly impossible to undo, thus socialism is worse.

Why do you believe the Patriot Act "can be repealed or modified" but that the socialism "will be nearly impossible to undo"? On what basis do you make that claim? Because from my vantage point, both are laws that can be equally repealed or modified or not repealed or modified. I suspect rather that it is your personal distaste for the term "socialism" that has led you to believe it will be more difficult to be repealed or modified.

Further, I would suggest that we will NEVER be out of Iraq. Hell, we're still in Germany and Japan.

... You weren't talking to me, but that's never stopped me before.

Me either, so I don't mind. <grin>

... What does any citizen get for free from the Patriot Act? It's not an entitlement. That is the answer.

The REAL answer is what does the GOVERNMENT get for free from the Patriot Act? They are, after all, the ones who would be doing the repealing, and they seem to like it JUST FINE.

Now, I DO like George Will a great deal, and I tend to agree with him a lot. I'm not even saying he's wrong, but my point is that "socialism" is just as easy to repeal as the Patriot Act is...and more likely, at this point by a large margin.

... That's a good point.

...

[PLAYER57832]

I DO NOT, let me re-phrase that, DO NOT trust the US government. And how can ANY American with all the slimy deals being made to get laws passed!

... And let's not forget that the new health care "reform" exempts those who voted on it, and their staffs, from having to participate in it.

... It's like we're living in some Third World banana republic.

... And Player seems to think getting seriously pissed off is "the REAL worry". Amazing.

No, let's define things here. Getting "seriously pissed off" is NOT a problem. That is part of democracy. The problem is twofold. 1. heavy reliance on "disinformation" and not just by fringe groups and people. 2. The level of action and violance perpetrated and advocated, again even by mainline people.. congressfolk, even.

I thought the days of yellow journalism were largely past, but with the internet, anybody can say whatever they like and find a huge following. Anytime large groups of people believe lies, it is a problem, regardless of the belief. (and please, religion is different mostly because everyone recognizes it has no objective, irrefutable proof for non-believers.. and deals with it in that framework).

When there is massive anger and hatred based on those lies.. it is a problem. This goes well beyond a mere "difference of opinion". Whole groups of people are disputing basic facts at a very fundamental level. Some of those "facts" are pretty worrysome. Its McCarthism on steroids. I mean Obama = Hitler, and not just as a thrown out slurr, but truly something people believe? That is scary!

... But steering now back to topic, rightist thought going mainstream? I disagree.

You disagree because you have already bought into the system. Your "yardstick" is definitely to the right. Which rather is my point.

You do have more knowledge than many. Even so, I don't think you really know much about what truly liberal people are asserting today. You have to work really, really hard to even find their positions. The right wing, but contrast, is all over the general media.

I simply believe that all this pissing on the consitution is enraging normal, normally quiet folks, to the point they start screaming, start being noticed (by an administration-friendly media that paints them as racist/dangerous radicals for their disagreement by default). And of course the moonbat lunatics with swatikas and shaved heads will be sought out by on-the-scene news types and portrayed as representative of the whole....

Yes and no. I do agree that many people find these actioins reprehensible, just like most people found the actions of the far left protestors decades ago to be reprehensible. However, the internet has changed things to the point where these protestors truly are not aware of the huge dissent... and as a result, many in the mainstream are not either. THEY may take exception to the most extreme violance, but exactly what is "extreme" keeps changing.

Like I said earlier, in the 70's it was protestors against the "establishment". Today, a lot of the protest is right there within the "establishment".

[MeDeFe]

The war will end. The patriot act can be repealed or modified. Once the number of people drawing benefits from Government exceeds the number paying for them, it will be nearly impossible to undo, thus socialism is worse.

I think the number of people paying and of people drawing benefits are roughly equal and both roughly amount to 100% of the population.

[PLAYER57832]

The war will end. The patriot act can be repealed or modified. Once the number of people drawing benefits from Government exceeds the number paying for them, it will be nearly impossible to undo, thus socialism is worse.

I think the number of people paying and of people drawing benefits are roughly equal and both roughly amount to 100% of the population.

Since companies now count as "people" both figures now exceed 100%, though companies have always been far greater recipients of "socialism" than the rest of us.

Problem is people don't want to see that, they only want to look at the deadbeat down the street, not the fact that their paycheck is meager because we have to make sure company executives make their huge bonuses.

[b.k. barunt]

That's just two cases - can you give me a couple from the "Progressive" side?

First let me start by saying we have had back to back DISASTROUS presidencies. I loathed Bush by 2007.
THAT being said, Blah Blah Blah . . .

First of all let me start by saying that you completely avoided my question and just ran your mouth a bit. I asked you for a couple of instances where "Progressives" had raped our Constitution like the Republicans. Still waiting btw.


Honibaz

[jay_a2j]

That's just two cases - can you give me a couple from the "Progressive" side?

First let me start by saying we have had back to back DISASTROUS presidencies. I loathed Bush by 2007.
THAT being said, Blah Blah Blah . . .

First of all let me start by saying that you completely avoided my question and just ran your mouth a bit. I asked you for a couple of instances where "Progressives" had raped our Constitution like the Republicans. Still waiting btw.


Honibaz

NICE! You blah, blah, blahed through the answer!

In the past year we have had the Federal government (PROGRESSIVES)take over the following:

BANKS

AUTO INDUSTRY

HEALTH CARE

[Snorri1234]

That's just two cases - can you give me a couple from the "Progressive" side?

First let me start by saying we have had back to back DISASTROUS presidencies. I loathed Bush by 2007.
THAT being said, Blah Blah Blah . . .

First of all let me start by saying that you completely avoided my question and just ran your mouth a bit. I asked you for a couple of instances where "Progressives" had raped our Constitution like the Republicans. Still waiting btw.


Honibaz

NICE! You blah, blah, blahed through the answer!

In the past year we have had the Federal government (PROGRESSIVES)take over the following:

BANKS

AUTO INDUSTRY

HEALTH CARE

Jay.....have you read the constitution?

These things are not against the constitution. They're not takeovers like in communist russia. You're free to say they're bad and that you disagree, hell you can even claim it's worse than the patriot act. But it's not unconstitutional.

[jay_a2j]

That's just two cases - can you give me a couple from the "Progressive" side?

First let me start by saying we have had back to back DISASTROUS presidencies. I loathed Bush by 2007.
THAT being said, Blah Blah Blah . . .

First of all let me start by saying that you completely avoided my question and just ran your mouth a bit. I asked you for a couple of instances where "Progressives" had raped our Constitution like the Republicans. Still waiting btw.


Honibaz

NICE! You blah, blah, blahed through the answer!

In the past year we have had the Federal government (PROGRESSIVES)take over the following:

BANKS

AUTO INDUSTRY

HEALTH CARE

Jay.....have you read the constitution?

These things are not against the constitution. They're not takeovers like in communist russia. You're free to say they're bad and that you disagree, hell you can even claim it's worse than the patriot act. But it's not unconstitutional.

Forcing people to BUY insurance "or be fined" is not unconstitutional?

Bribing elected officials to get laws passed might not be "unconstitutional" but it should be ILLEGAL!

Just because something ISN'T in the Constitution doesn't make it right.

The people could vote in a NAZI, and that's constitutional too.

They problem arises when the slow progression towards socialism can't be detected by the majority of people and by the time they realize it, it's too late.

[Snorri1234]

Forcing people to BUY insurance "or be fined" is not unconstitutional?

Nope.

Bribing elected officials to get laws passed might not be "unconstitutional" but it should be ILLEGAL!

Just because something ISN'T in the Constitution doesn't make it right.

The people could vote in a NAZI, and that's constitutional too.

Yes. Which is why it's moronic to say Obama and the democrats have raped the constitution.

[PLAYER57832]

The people could vote in a NAZI, and that's constitutional too.

Yes, but that is what we liberals are trying to avert.
.

[jay_a2j]

The people could vote in a NAZI, and that's constitutional too.

Yes, but that is what we liberals are trying to avert.
.

Yes, because we all know a Stalin would be far better.

[PLAYER57832]

The people could vote in a NAZI, and that's constitutional too.

Yes, but that is what we liberals are trying to avert.
.

Yes, because we all know a Stalin would be far better.

You believe Stalin was a liberal?

[angola]

Forcing people to BUY insurance "or be fined" is not unconstitutional?

Apparently, you've been living in a Communist country your whole life - well as long as you've been forced to buy car insurance. Or when banks - which in theory, shouldn't even have as much power as the government - force you to buy mortgage insurance when you buy a house.

Oh, and the Federal Government is set to sell its stake in Citigroup at an $8 billion profit. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36062775/ns ... gton_post/

[jay_a2j]

Apparently, you've been living in a Communist country your whole life - well as long as you've been forced to buy car insurance. Or when banks - which in theory, shouldn't even have as much power as the government - force you to buy mortgage insurance when you buy a house.

Oh, and the Federal Government is set to sell its stake in Citigroup at an $8 billion profit. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36062775/ns ... gton_post/

State vs. Federal. There is no Federal law requiring car insurance.

[angola]

Apparently, you've been living in a Communist country your whole life - well as long as you've been forced to buy car insurance. Or when banks - which in theory, shouldn't even have as much power as the government - force you to buy mortgage insurance when you buy a house.

Oh, and the Federal Government is set to sell its stake in Citigroup at an $8 billion profit. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36062775/ns ... gton_post/

State vs. Federal. There is no Federal law requiring car insurance.

Not in name, but the Federal Government does lots of things like not provide money for roads in states that don't enforce things the Feds want (such as the 21-year-old age limit for drinking, car insurance, etc.).

Oh, and you are all for living in a "socialist" state, but not a "socialist" country?

[jay_a2j]

Oh, and you are all for living in a "socialist" state, but not a "socialist" country?

I can move.

[Woodruff]

Forcing people to BUY insurance "or be fined" is not unconstitutional?
Bribing elected officials to get laws passed might not be "unconstitutional" but it should be ILLEGAL!
Just because something ISN'T in the Constitution doesn't make it right.
The people could vote in a NAZI, and that's constitutional too.
They problem arises when the slow progression towards socialism can't be detected by the majority of people and by the time they realize it, it's too late.

And yet, you were allegedly answering how progressives had "shredded the Constitution" in the way that Republicans did with the Patriot Act. Were you going to?

[angola]

Oh, and you are all for living in a "socialist" state, but not a "socialist" country?

I can move.

You could move to a different country, also.

You also can't escape the car insurance thing, since it is in every state. So, not sure what moving will do for you.

[Woodruff]

The people could vote in a NAZI, and that's constitutional too.

Yes, but that is what we liberals are trying to avert.

Yes, because we all know a Stalin would be far better.

When did Stalin become a liberal? Good God man, do you even THINK AT ALL before you post?