Greece to Collapse Monday Afternoon

[jefjef]

A much welcome sight as soon as Greece and Germany collapse will be witnessed by those in their hour of need when AMERICA arrives to rescue them and stabilize the situation.

[saxitoxin]

A much welcome sight as soon as Greece and Germany collapse will be witnessed by those in their hour of need when AMERICA arrives to rescue them and stabilize the situation.

What kind of emergency are you envisioning jefjef where mosques will have begun to be constructed in Greece and palm trees started to grow by the time the US arrives?!

[Phatscotty]

There must be a lot of money entering by tourism too.

Doesn't seem that bad to me. Maybe it has to do with mortgages too?

(1) Greece had a successful lemonade stand. One of the best in the world.

(2) Greece used the proceeds from the lemonade stand to buy a 2010 Saab 9-3.

(3) No matter how good your lemonade may taste, you can't buy a Saab 9-3 off the profits from a lemonade stand.

(4) Greece is now so far in debt that they are in danger of default.

(5) As a risk of their default danger the Greek government's interest rates to borrow money have increased to 22%, loan-shark rates.

(6) At a 22% interest rate the Greek government can't pay the interest of new debt but can't survive without said new debt.

(7) Banks close. ATMs stop working. Inflation goes into quadruple digits. Unemployment hits 50%. Riots.

(8) These men arrive in Syntagma Square to fix everything:

hopefully entitlement programs and massive unemployement plans and stimulus bills can make the USA complete shit also!

[jefjef]

A much welcome sight as soon as Greece and Germany collapse will be witnessed by those in their hour of need when AMERICA arrives to rescue them and stabilize the situation.

What kind of emergency are you envisioning jefjef where mosques will have begun to be constructed in Greece and palm trees started to grow by the time the US arrives?!

That is not a mosque. It is the Greekdogs house. The palm trees were flown in and planted as part of an aid package to create a pleasant environment for our security forces.

[bedub1]

There must be a lot of money entering by tourism too.

Doesn't seem that bad to me. Maybe it has to do with mortgages too?

(1) Greece had a successful lemonade stand. One of the best in the world.

(2) Greece used the proceeds from the lemonade stand to buy a 2010 Saab 9-3.

(3) No matter how good your lemonade may taste, you can't buy a Saab 9-3 off the profits from a lemonade stand.

(4) Greece is now so far in debt that they are in danger of default.

(5) As a risk of their default danger the Greek government's interest rates to borrow money have increased to 22%, loan-shark rates.

(6) At a 22% interest rate the Greek government can't pay the interest of new debt but can't survive without said new debt.

(7) Banks close. ATMs stop working. Inflation goes into quadruple digits. Unemployment hits 50%. Riots.

(8) These men arrive in Syntagma Square to fix everything:

hopefully entitlement programs and massive unemployement plans and stimulus bills can make the USA complete shit also!

If only the US could experience what Poland just had to suffer from, maybe that would save our country.

[Phatscotty]

Pardon my ignorance, and my lack of will for using google.. but, what was the problem in Greece? Bad mortgages like in the US?

If Greece goes bankrupt, I'm willing to buy Athens, such a beautiful history. We should support them by visiting Athens. For those who know nothing, it was in Greece where civilization as we know it started.

Mostly the problem is massive state employment, as far as I understand it. Huge sections are employed by the government. When the government hit financial difficulties in the current crisis, there was no way to maintain the status quo.

That and Greece uses the Euro. Allowing it to fail would impact other Euro states and destabilise and delegitimise that part of the European economy.

The problem is that Greece needs to reform it's economy, but is too big to fail.

does greece have gov't run health care too? i mean, did they?

[saxitoxin]

Pardon my ignorance, and my lack of will for using google.. but, what was the problem in Greece? Bad mortgages like in the US?

If Greece goes bankrupt, I'm willing to buy Athens, such a beautiful history. We should support them by visiting Athens. For those who know nothing, it was in Greece where civilization as we know it started.

Mostly the problem is massive state employment, as far as I understand it. Huge sections are employed by the government. When the government hit financial difficulties in the current crisis, there was no way to maintain the status quo.

That and Greece uses the Euro. Allowing it to fail would impact other Euro states and destabilise and delegitimise that part of the European economy.

The problem is that Greece needs to reform it's economy, but is too big to fail.

does greece have gov't run health care too? i mean, did they?

Greece has universal - but not government run - health care. Very few nations have government run health care. Only Canada, Cuba, UK, the Scandinavian nations and a handful of others. Most of continental Europe has private insurance systems that are universalized through government guarantee.

But, regardless, that doesn't mean too much. Uzbekistan, Mongolia, the UK and Panama all officially have universal health care. That doesn't mean you're likely to see a doctor, or even want to see one, in those countries.

Universal health care is only effective when the entire economic engine has been transformed into a Marxist-Leninist model. Universal health care stamped over a slave wage capitalist system, a la carte style, is always doomed to failure. I say this both as an expert in socialist economics and a former health care provider.

[Phatscotty]

this is my favorite part...

Fitch Ratings lowered Greece’s long-term foreign and local currency issuer default ratings to BBB-, from BBB+. The outlook is negative, it said.

[BoganGod]

Pardon my ignorance, and my lack of will for using google.. but, what was the problem in Greece? Bad mortgages like in the US?

If Greece goes bankrupt, I'm willing to buy Athens, such a beautiful history. We should support them by visiting Athens. For those who know nothing, it was in Greece where civilization as we know it started.

Mostly the problem is massive state employment, as far as I understand it. Huge sections are employed by the government. When the government hit financial difficulties in the current crisis, there was no way to maintain the status quo.

That and Greece uses the Euro. Allowing it to fail would impact other Euro states and destabilise and delegitimise that part of the European economy.

The problem is that Greece needs to reform it's economy, but is too big to fail.

does greece have gov't run health care too? i mean, did they?

Greece has universal - but not government run - health care. Very few nations have government run health care. Only Canada, Cuba, UK, the Scandinavian nations and a handful of others. Most of continental Europe has private insurance systems that are universalized through government guarantee.

But, regardless, that doesn't mean too much. Uzbekistan, Mongolia, the UK and Panama all officially have universal health care. That doesn't mean you're likely to see a doctor, or even want to see one, in those countries.

Universal health care is only effective when the entire economic engine has been transformed into a Marxist-Leninist model. Universal health care stamped over a slave wage capitalist system, a la carte style, is always doomed to failure. I say this both as an expert in socialist economics and a former health care provider.

bollocks you republican git. Australia and New Zealand both have universal health care. Australia's economy shits on most of europes and USA.

[saxitoxin]

Pardon my ignorance, and my lack of will for using google.. but, what was the problem in Greece? Bad mortgages like in the US?

If Greece goes bankrupt, I'm willing to buy Athens, such a beautiful history. We should support them by visiting Athens. For those who know nothing, it was in Greece where civilization as we know it started.

Mostly the problem is massive state employment, as far as I understand it. Huge sections are employed by the government. When the government hit financial difficulties in the current crisis, there was no way to maintain the status quo.

That and Greece uses the Euro. Allowing it to fail would impact other Euro states and destabilise and delegitimise that part of the European economy.

The problem is that Greece needs to reform it's economy, but is too big to fail.

does greece have gov't run health care too? i mean, did they?

Greece has universal - but not government run - health care. Very few nations have government run health care. Only Canada, Cuba, UK, the Scandinavian nations and a handful of others. Most of continental Europe has private insurance systems that are universalized through government guarantee.

But, regardless, that doesn't mean too much. Uzbekistan, Mongolia, the UK and Panama all officially have universal health care. That doesn't mean you're likely to see a doctor, or even want to see one, in those countries.

Universal health care is only effective when the entire economic engine has been transformed into a Marxist-Leninist model. Universal health care stamped over a slave wage capitalist system, a la carte style, is always doomed to failure. I say this both as an expert in socialist economics and a former health care provider.

bollocks you republican git. Australia and New Zealand both have universal health care. Australia's economy shits on most of europes and USA.

1. Not being a USA citizen I am not a Republican. As an affirmed atheist, revolutionary Dadaist and former member of the DDR Socialist Unity Party it would be highly unlikely I would ever become one, even if I became a USA citizen.

2. I said "... and a handful of others" ... New Zealand and Australia were included in "a handful of others." I can't be expected to rattle off every little country in every little backwater in the world.

3. I agree on your third point. The lackeys of the pig-whore capitalist system have entrenched themselves deeply in Australia, erecting a monumental edifice to bloodthirsty imperialism built on their genocide of the peace-loving Aboriginal peoples.

Thanks, BoganGod!
- Saxitoxin

[Skittles!]

Pardon my ignorance, and my lack of will for using google.. but, what was the problem in Greece? Bad mortgages like in the US?

If Greece goes bankrupt, I'm willing to buy Athens, such a beautiful history. We should support them by visiting Athens. For those who know nothing, it was in Greece where civilization as we know it started.

Yeah, just skip Athens. Beautiful history, yeah.. Not so much now.

[Pedronicus]

The international price bench mark according to Pedro is a pint of Lager.

Prior to Greece entering the euro, going on holiday to Greece and getting drunk was cheap.
After the entered the euro, the price of a pint of lager was very similar to that in England.
I never went back.

[DeltaFormation]

I really didn't want to bump this but Greece is about to receive the largest bailout ever.

Estimated to be a package worth just under $150bln. The IMF will provide approx. $40bln of those loans and the EU lead by Germany will provide the rest.

To put this into perspective:

The largest bailout before that happened to South Korea in the 1997-98 Asian Crisis was $58bln.
South Korea had a population of 45 million at the time of their bailout... Greece has under 12 million.

It's just ridiculous. On top of that their economy is practically in shambles, most people don't pay taxes, etc...

This is where it gets interesting: Germany opposed the bailout at the start but now seems to be encouraging it. Why? Because Germany is the second largest exporter in the world behind China... It exports to almost every other European country and to some extent China and the developing nations.

So if Greece were to go bust, they would start to lose their markets very rapidly. If Greece goes, it's a matter of time before Spain and Portugal go, and then maybe even Italy or the UK.

So basically this amounts to Germany trying to plug the hole in the dam with a finger, not only for the sake of the Euro and the EU but for their export markets, if Greece goes, it's a domino effect and you can be sure the middle class and wealthier Greeks (and later the Spaniards, Portuguese, Italians, English) will no longer be buying German cars and TVs.

I don't see how this is going to get the EU past Greece unscathed... I really don't. Even with this bailout, Greece will probably run out of the money in less than a year if nothing changes.

[jaimito101]

Breaking Update: Germany Just Agreed to Lend to Greece at 5% instead of 22%

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-0 ... ate1-.html

Good News: Greece Will Survive

Bad News: Germany is Now in a Suicide Pact with Greece; if this doesn't work out both Greece and Germany will collapse into anarchy

The meetings are over,
The treaties suspended,
The armies start marching,
The EU is ended.

before you pack your bags and move to an uninhabited island, get your facts straight.

1. it is not only germany who took on the debt, many eu countries spread the debt. (80 bill E)

2. the IMF takes on part of the loan so this technically does not affect the EU on the short term (30 bill E)

3. greece forms less than 2% of the european gdp, and cannot be voted out according to the european constitution or will it leave the EU for its own best interest.

4. the cost of the war in iraq for america alone has already surpassed 700 billion dollars.

5. 1 euro is still worth above the 1.30 dollars, considerably higher than its introduction price in 2002 investors must really be shitting their pants.

[Woodruff]

1. Not being a USA citizen I am not a Republican. As an affirmed atheist, revolutionary Dadaist and former member of the DDR Socialist Unity Party

You wrote Dance Dance Revolution?

[BigBallinStalin]

.

[bedub1]

I really didn't want to bump this but Greece is about to receive the largest bailout ever.

Estimated to be a package worth just under $150bln. The IMF will provide approx. $40bln of those loans and the EU lead by Germany will provide the rest.

To put this into perspective:

The largest bailout before that happened to South Korea in the 1997-98 Asian Crisis was $58bln.
South Korea had a population of 45 million at the time of their bailout... Greece has under 12 million.

It's just ridiculous. On top of that their economy is practically in shambles, most people don't pay taxes, etc...

This is where it gets interesting: Germany opposed the bailout at the start but now seems to be encouraging it. Why? Because Germany is the second largest exporter in the world behind China... It exports to almost every other European country and to some extent China and the developing nations.

So if Greece were to go bust, they would start to lose their markets very rapidly. If Greece goes, it's a matter of time before Spain and Portugal go, and then maybe even Italy or the UK.

So basically this amounts to Germany trying to plug the hole in the dam with a finger, not only for the sake of the Euro and the EU but for their export markets, if Greece goes, it's a domino effect and you can be sure the middle class and wealthier Greeks (and later the Spaniards, Portuguese, Italians, English) will no longer be buying German cars and TVs.

I don't see how this is going to get the EU past Greece unscathed... I really don't. Even with this bailout, Greece will probably run out of the money in less than a year if nothing changes.

sounds like they are now taking Europe with them and Asia, and the US, and the rest of the world....
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6360JO20100505

A tumble in global stocks spread to Asia on Wednesday on heightening fears that Greece's debt woes could spread to other countries.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... EFTTopNews

Greek-Debt Pressure Sends Europe Off 2.9%

Oh, and how does loaning a country more money make their debt woes go away? Doesn't that just create more debt for them? People keep saying a country can borrow itself out of debt (whereas that's obviously impossible for an individual) but it doesn't appear to be working....

[Phatscotty]

Oh, and how does loaning a country more money make their debt woes go away? Doesn't that just create more debt for them? People keep saying a country can borrow itself out of debt (whereas that's obviously impossible for an individual) but it doesn't appear to be working....

I do not know, but you had better not touch our gov't benefits! WE ARE ENTITLED!

Sorry Greeks. You did not stand up against debt soon enough. Your bad. The USA will strive to answer your prayers that we wake up and spare ourselves a repeat of your tragedy

[saxitoxin]

1. Not being a USA citizen I am not a Republican. As an affirmed atheist, revolutionary Dadaist and former member of the DDR Socialist Unity Party

You wrote Dance Dance Revolution?

ATTENTION, WOODRUFF HAS BEEN SPOTTED IN THIS THREAD. PLEASE PROCEED CALMLY TO THE NEAREST EXIT. WALK - DO NOT RUN - TOWARD THE LIGHTED RED PLACARD. DO NOT PANIC. HELP IS EN ROUTE.

Thanks, gang!
- Saxi!

[saxitoxin]

I really didn't want to bump this but Greece is about to receive the largest bailout ever.

Estimated to be a package worth just under $150bln. The IMF will provide approx. $40bln of those loans and the EU lead by Germany will provide the rest.

I don't see how this is going to get the EU past Greece unscathed... I really don't. Even with this bailout, Greece will probably run out of the money in less than a year if nothing changes.

And even if the Greeks do make it, they'll be in the pocket of the IMF (or in reality, the USA). Never a pleasant situation.

Indeed. This is clearly what the U.S. wanted all along. Europeans from all the little countries that are used to getting invaded every few years like Denmark, Holland, Belgium, etc., are so busy patting themselves on the back on the faux EU "nation" that they can't be bothered to notice the U.S., the supposed overwhelming hegemony the EU exists to confront, has been the single biggest cheerleader to increasing EU expansion and integration. None of them could be bothered to ask why; they were too busy passing resolutions naming the European Capital of Culture and organizing fireworks shows over Brussels. Now the first in a string of succeeding EU states will be owned by an "international" monetary fund headquartered six blocks from the White House.

It's only a matter of time before Europeans go back to doing what they do best: bombing the s*&# out of each other.

This is the predicted reality of what would happen when the 1955 Treaty of Friendship (AKA Warsaw Pact) was allowed to expire. For four decades it was the only stabilizing, peace-guaranteeing force on the European continent. What is happening now is no surprise to many of us.

[BigBallinStalin]

.

[jaimito101]

ok, apparently my point didn't get across last time so i'll bump and fill in the blanks


"
before you pack your bags and move to an uninhabited island, get your facts straight.

1. it is not only germany who took on the debt, many eu countries spread the debt. (80 bill E)

so the debt is well spread and on a voluntary basis. no country took on more than they could handle

2. the IMF takes on part of the loan so this technically does not affect the EU on the short term (30 bill E)

even so i hear some say that then greece is under the control of the US? US is the biggest net contributor indeed but with only 17% is hardly in control of anything. furthermore the 30 billion is but miniscule in comparison to the 400 billion dollars china accumulates yearly off american imports!

3. greece forms less than 2% of the european gdp, and will not and cannot be voted out according to the european constitution or will it leave the EU for its own, and the EU's best interest.

so even in the impossible wost case sceneraio, that greece complety shuts down producttion, this would only mean a 2 percent decrease in the gdp! these are but normal yearly swings in a country's gdp!

4. the cost of the war in iraq for america alone has already surpassed 700 billion dollars.

here you are screaming and shouting about a 140 billion loan, while the US has wasted 700 billion in the past years solely on the war in iraq!

5. 1 euro is still worth above the 1.30 dollars, considerably higher than its introduction price in 2002 investors must really be shitting their pants.

this here was sarcasm, currency valuation can be seen as debt, if people have trust they will be able to use(cash it in) they will give you a good price for it. apparently "the world", includding millions of investors, countries, national banks, feel the euro is worth 1.30 dollars. this meaning that in the last 8 years up till now the euro has actually gained strength against the dollar. more people trust the euro zone to repay their debts at this moment than the US. "

[jaimito101]

Oh, and how does loaning a country more money make their debt woes go away? Doesn't that just create more debt for them? People keep saying a country can borrow itself out of debt (whereas that's obviously impossible for an individual) but it doesn't appear to be working....

greece needed funds to repay outstanding debt (avoiding default) and to keep its economy going, the choice was either to get debt off the market at as i read here, at a whopping 14% interest? or to get a 5% loan from the eu/imf. also restructuring of the higher interest rates to the lower interest rate now achieved creates immediate debt relief.

[saxitoxin]

ok, apparently my point didn't get across last time so i'll bump and fill in the blanks

no one cared, dandelion

[DeltaFormation]

A few Greek communist or anarchist protesters thought they would stick it to the man by setting a bank on fire.

They killed 3 people. Stuff like this makes me sick.

And as for tax evasion: Some news group did an aerial surveying of a rich neighborhood to check which houses had pools.

The neighborhood had 400 people claim pools. The surveying found over 16 000 pools. You are suppose to claim a pool if you have one because there's a tax on pools in Greece.

To qualify for retirement - the age was under 60 for men and it was lower for women. Public sector employees received bonuses - no, not performance bonuses for doing a good job, just a bonus for being an employee.

Just absolutely ridiculous. I am for social programs but that is excess to the max.