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Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism
https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 0#p5349880
Sax, you forget. Russia holds a wild card: Iran, and Syria still remains a potentially profitable tool for projecting US interests since the diminishing of the CW deterrent may not prove rewarding enough.sax wrote:There is absolutely nothing to restrain Israeli military action in the Levant now - Syria's chemical weapons were the only deterrent to Israeli military action in the region.
...
(Of course that may happen anyway and the FSA, et. al. are in for a rude surprise when the west pulls the carpet out from underneath and stops the gravy train once Syrian CW are gone.)
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism
https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 0#p5349880
google "free trade agreement" and .gov and that'll lead to the USG website which lists the status of each FTA.warmonger1981 wrote:Does anyone know much about MEFTA or Middle East Free Trade Agreement? What countries would or would not support it? I remember Colin Powell preaching it about 7 year ago. Just wondering if some of these countries being over run were for it or not.
Now maybe the father in law got me a little drunk. Maybe that is influencing my post here, But, I suspect that Obama has more in mind when considering foreing policy than book deals. Mayhaps I am being a stary eyed (drunken) idealist. Besides the man is already a multi millionaire(worth over $10 milion).BigBallinStalin wrote:I'm not sure if they have the Greater Good of the Democratic Party in mind, thus they would constrain themselves. It works the other way. The Democrats and--to a lesser degree--the Republicans via their constituents (to some degree) are serving as a constraint on the president's ambitions (and his NSC + other groupthinkers').Baron Von PWN wrote:So they'd like to but are afraid (domestic) of what it will do to the democratic party and (internationally) what it would do to the US relations should he just go ahead and invade?BigBallinStalin wrote:I'd say they want to invade but cannot muster the support. Usually, a president has more 'freedom' (autocratic ability) during his 2nd term since he's not going to be reelected, so to me his 2nd term activities are often a good indicator of what he himself really wants.Baron Von PWN wrote:What's interesting here is that Obama could have gone ahead if he wanted to. He has the power as president to authorize military strikes. However despite all his talk of national interest, security threats ect, he hasn't done that. Instead he brings it to congress,but says we should wait till it reconvenes and goes along with Putin's likely unworkable plan, it's as though the white house has no coherent strategy with regards to Syria.
"We need to intervene due to x,y and z, but let's wait two weeks for congress. What's this Putin has proposed some plan designed to buy Assad more time? Hold off talking about this congress, we need to pursue this. "
To me it seems like the white house really doesn't want to intervene, as they are taking any excuse to delay doing so, or are completely confused as to what to do.
Another constraint is the recent US/NATO-Libyan war. Had his (un)declaration of war against Libya in 2011 not occurred, he might've been able to pull off the same thing with Syria (no congressional vote and all that).
Maybe, I think it's a bit of lack of support, and their heart isn't really into it.
Also, it's about the 'path-dependency' of Obama's previous actions (e.g. the war against Libya, the increasingly unyielding attitude against compromise, thus incurring the loss of potential logrolling/exchange of favors, etc.). In other words, the US-Libyan war wasn't taken as well as previously expected since it caused many Obama fans to become more skeptical of the imagined greatness of Obama. So, when his fans see that Obama wants to attack another country, they would marginally scale back support/faith in the president (Of course, his members' faith still runs strong--just not as strongly pre-war + other stuff).
One implication of this is that Obama does not wish to increasingly isolate himself from his future fanbase. By retaining as large as a possible such a fanbase, he'll increase his potential streams of future income (e.g. future speeches, charity foundations, etc.--just like Bill Clinton). Obama's got post-presidential profit-maximization in mind, so if the Public doesn't like war with Syria, then Obama will opt for more future streams of money at the opportunity cost of (currently) not going to war with Syria.
The opinions of the international community--in relation to the above--don't matter as much.

BVP wrote:Now maybe the father in law got me a little drunk. Maybe that is influencing my post here, But, I suspect that Obama has more in mind when considering foreing policy than book deals. Mayhaps I am being a stary eyed (drunken) idealist. Besides the man is already a multi millionaire(worth over $10 milion).
I would posit that when people run for the presidency of a country they actually do this out of the interest of their country. This isn't to say they are averse to taking advantage of lucrative opportunities which may arise from their position, but I would suggest that personal gain is secondary to the gain of the nation. Besides even unpopular presidents get cushy deals (Bush is worth over $30 million). So I don't really think personal wealth is a major factor for these guys .
There is no 'interest of the country'. That's the problem. That phrase is simply defined by whoever revisions the 'public interest', and for any politician, that phrase is definitely narrowed by one's constituents; therefore, the 'public interest' becomes geared toward 'those who support me' (which is about 30% of the electorate for Obama). Also, you'll have the president's Vision of the Country which can be distinct from and conflict with the actual 'public interest' and even the interest of his constituents. My main point here is that there is a lot buried beneath that seemingly comforting assumption for his motivation.I would posit that when people run for the presidency of a country they actually do this out of the interest of their country.
1. $10 million isn't enough to buy or do anything you could conceivably want ... I'd say you need $100 million or so to get to the level where money is no object for anything but the most outrageous things. Plus, ex-presidents are expected to maintain a certain lifestyle, not all of which is underwritten by the government. IIRC Winston Churchill was offered a Dukedom but turned it down in favor of being made an Earl instead because he couldn't afford the lifestyle of a Duke. I think being an ex-president is like forcibly being made a Duke.I would posit that when people run for the presidency of a country they actually do this out of the interest of their country.
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism
https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 0#p5349880
Still not a fan of Jewish people eh, Sax?saxitoxin wrote: He may have bought-in to Israel's claim that they are populated by a master race of powerful magicians and is happy to do their bidding to gain immortal favor.
First, I said Israel, not Jews.Symmetry wrote:Still not a fan of Jewish people eh, Sax?saxitoxin wrote: He may have bought-in to Israel's claim that they are populated by a master race of powerful magicians and is happy to do their bidding to gain immortal favor.

Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism
https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 0#p5349880
You're still the man who finds Anne Frank illegitimate on the Holocaust to me dude.saxitoxin wrote:First, I said Israel, not Jews.Symmetry wrote:Still not a fan of Jewish people eh, Sax?saxitoxin wrote: He may have bought-in to Israel's claim that they are populated by a master race of powerful magicians and is happy to do their bidding to gain immortal favor.
you're drunkSymmetry wrote:You're still the man who finds Anne Frank illegitimate on the Holocaust to me dude.saxitoxin wrote:First, I said Israel, not Jews.Symmetry wrote:Still not a fan of Jewish people eh, Sax?saxitoxin wrote: He may have bought-in to Israel's claim that they are populated by a master race of powerful magicians and is happy to do their bidding to gain immortal favor.
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism
https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 0#p5349880
saxitoxin wrote:you're drunkSymmetry wrote:You're still the man who finds Anne Frank illegitimate on the Holocaust to me dude.saxitoxin wrote:First, I said Israel, not Jews.Symmetry wrote:Still not a fan of Jewish people eh, Sax?saxitoxin wrote: He may have bought-in to Israel's claim that they are populated by a master race of powerful magicians and is happy to do their bidding to gain immortal favor.
Linksaxitoxin wrote:Before I consider what legitimate? That Juan is a victim of the Holocaust by process of acquaintance? If Anne Frank logged onto Conquer Club it wouldn't make that legitimate.
In that thread JB had crowned himself a Holocaust survivor despite being born 40 years after WW2. Even an endorsement of JB from Anne Frank herself couldn't legitimize how fundamentally offensive that egotistical notion was to actual Holocaust victims and survivors. I have no problem standing by that.Symmetry wrote:saxitoxin wrote:you're drunkSymmetry wrote:You're still the man who finds Anne Frank illegitimate on the Holocaust to me dude.saxitoxin wrote:First, I said Israel, not Jews.Symmetry wrote:Still not a fan of Jewish people eh, Sax?saxitoxin wrote: He may have bought-in to Israel's claim that they are populated by a master race of powerful magicians and is happy to do their bidding to gain immortal favor.Linksaxitoxin wrote:Before I consider what legitimate? That Juan is a victim of the Holocaust by process of acquaintance? If Anne Frank logged onto Conquer Club it wouldn't make that legitimate.
I'd be happy if you elaborated, and happier if you simply said that you were wrong.
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism
https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 0#p5349880
Do you stand by your argument that you wouldn't consider Anne Frank a legitimate source? I get that you dislike Juan's take, though of course he had a fair argument that he's a survivor, but considering Anne Frank, a legitimate victim of the Holocaust, to be illegitimate?saxitoxin wrote:In that thread JB had crowned himself a Holocaust survivor despite being born 40 years after WW2. Even an endorsement of JB from Anne Frank herself couldn't legitimize how fundamentally offensive that egotistical notion was to actual Holocaust victims and survivors. I have no problem standing by that.
wow, grossSymmetry wrote: he had a fair argument that he's a survivor
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism
https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 0#p5349880
You have no need to pull a PhatScotty on this, just admit that you were wrong, and let the thread move forward.saxitoxin wrote:wow, grossSymmetry wrote: he had a fair argument that he's a survivor
Andy (yes, Andy) nailed it in the other thread. The president (and by extension the party) is looking to deflect or disperse potential blame if things go bad to Congress (and specifically Republicans in Congress), most of whom want to intervene in Syria. I don't agree with BBS's theory on second term presidents. There is too much to lose for President Obama if he unilaterally decides to start some shit in Syria.Baron Von PWN wrote:So they'd like to but are afraid (domestic) of what it will do to the democratic party and (internationally) what it would do to the US relations should he just go ahead and invade?BigBallinStalin wrote:I'd say they want to invade but cannot muster the support. Usually, a president has more 'freedom' (autocratic ability) during his 2nd term since he's not going to be reelected, so to me his 2nd term activities are often a good indicator of what he himself really wants.Baron Von PWN wrote:What's interesting here is that Obama could have gone ahead if he wanted to. He has the power as president to authorize military strikes. However despite all his talk of national interest, security threats ect, he hasn't done that. Instead he brings it to congress,but says we should wait till it reconvenes and goes along with Putin's likely unworkable plan, it's as though the white house has no coherent strategy with regards to Syria.
"We need to intervene due to x,y and z, but let's wait two weeks for congress. What's this Putin has proposed some plan designed to buy Assad more time? Hold off talking about this congress, we need to pursue this. "
To me it seems like the white house really doesn't want to intervene, as they are taking any excuse to delay doing so, or are completely confused as to what to do.
Another constraint is the recent US/NATO-Libyan war. Had his (un)declaration of war against Libya in 2011 not occurred, he might've been able to pull off the same thing with Syria (no congressional vote and all that).
Maybe, I think it's a bit of lack of support, and their heart isn't really into it.
Why doesn't your second sentence bring you into agreement with the first sentence?tgd wrote: I don't agree with BBS's theory on second term presidents. There is too much to lose for President Obama if he unilaterally decides to start some shit in Syria.
I maybe misread your post. It's hard. There are way too many words.BigBallinStalin wrote:Why doesn't your second sentence bring you into agreement with the first sentence?tgd wrote: I don't agree with BBS's theory on second term presidents. There is too much to lose for President Obama if he unilaterally decides to start some shit in Syria.
lol okay.thegreekdog wrote:I maybe misread your post. It's hard. There are way too many words.BigBallinStalin wrote:Why doesn't your second sentence bring you into agreement with the first sentence?tgd wrote: I don't agree with BBS's theory on second term presidents. There is too much to lose for President Obama if he unilaterally decides to start some shit in Syria.
Yeah, I agree with that (although maybe I would add to "income" something like "continued popularity, worship, and legacy.")BigBallinStalin wrote:lol okay.thegreekdog wrote:I maybe misread your post. It's hard. There are way too many words.BigBallinStalin wrote:Why doesn't your second sentence bring you into agreement with the first sentence?tgd wrote: I don't agree with BBS's theory on second term presidents. There is too much to lose for President Obama if he unilaterally decides to start some shit in Syria.
My main point is that in light of the changing circumstances (lack of enough support from the electorate), Obama will recalibrate his strategy regarding Syria. Recall that he still wants to retain more popularity in order to receive more future streams of income during his post-presidential career.
It's quite a climbdown from the poll. One wonders if the change of heart will see a new poll.thegreekdog wrote:Yeah, I agree with that (although maybe I would add to "income" something like "continued popularity, worship, and legacy.")BigBallinStalin wrote:lol okay.thegreekdog wrote:I maybe misread your post. It's hard. There are way too many words.BigBallinStalin wrote:Why doesn't your second sentence bring you into agreement with the first sentence?tgd wrote: I don't agree with BBS's theory on second term presidents. There is too much to lose for President Obama if he unilaterally decides to start some shit in Syria.
My main point is that in light of the changing circumstances (lack of enough support from the electorate), Obama will recalibrate his strategy regarding Syria. Recall that he still wants to retain more popularity in order to receive more future streams of income during his post-presidential career.
thegreekdog wrote:I don't know what climbdown means.
I suspect, although this can't be proven, that the poll options are tongue-in-cheek and are meant for Obama supporters (I'm not an Obama supporter, so I did not respond to the poll). Frankly, I suspect the president (and most members of Congress) are looking to increase U.S. power in the Middle East through intervention. I suspect this because I have not heard the president or any members of Congress indicate that this is the reason; rather, I've had various things centered around "it's the right thing to do for the Syrian people" when a few hundred miles south, the people of the Sudan are suffering in worse ways.
And most of President Obama's supporters in the previous two elections (e.g. Frigidus) were ardently anti-war and anti-intervention in foreign conflicts. Those items largely influenced voting (especially in the 2008 presidential election). So, presumably (and again, I can't prove this because I'm not BBS), the question is whether the president's supporters are still as supportive or whether they are upset by the president's attempt to be Bush III (other than giving tax breaks and other benefits to big business).
I suppose, if he wanted to be consistent, BBS could form another poll asking whether the president's detractors (e.g. Night Strike and Phatscottty) are now supportive of the president in his quest for Middle East domination.
You're American, your president is Obama. I feel like we've had a climbdown from the topic title, and the poll that heads every page, to a more rational discussion. I don't think that I'm being unreasonable in seeing that as so.How do you feel knowing that your president is as aggressive as Bush 2.0?