So it looks like I'm financially fucked (for college)...

[static_ice]

....

[Hologram]

I listened to the wrong people, applied to the wrong schools and overestimated the generosity I'd get in my financial aid offers. And I am so unmotivated in applying to scholarships on the internet... senioritus is a bitch. Looks like I'll have to accrue about $120K in debt by the time I graduate, minus about $20K in financial aid and maybe a few more K's from part time work.

But then I remembered, from the far depths of my memory, hearing about a service program that pays for most if not all tuition, and you could go to school first and then work after you graduate. Which is why I'm posting this... to see if anyone knows what it is. I don't think it is ROTC (I wouldn't want to try that except maybe the reserves). More importantly I'm trying to find out what it is asap because I know I heard it before somewhere and I need to know if it's not too late to apply for next year.

One tip: Go to a city community college first to take care of your core classes cheaply, then transfer to a 4-yr. college to actually get your Bachelor's.

Also, if you're not adverse to the military, try for a military commissioning program. If you go ROTC you might get full ride, but there are other ways, such as the Marine Corps Platoon Leaders Class and Officer Candidate School which will usually pay for your college once you apply for the commission. The downside to that could be that if you wash out or are asked to leave you'll have to pay back any tuition assistance you had either monetarily or by a two year enlistment.

/edit: Or you can enlist and use that money to pay for some to all of your tuition. Just depends on what you want to do. I've done a bit of research on the military side because I'm enlisting in the Marine Corps in order to pay for college, then when I get my Bachelor's I'm applying for a commission.

Those officer dress blues are fucking amazing....

[static_ice]

Also, if you're not adverse to the military, try for a military commissioning program. If you go ROTC you might get full ride, but there are other ways, such as the Marine Corps Platoon Leaders Class and Officer Candidate School which will usually pay for your college once you apply for the commission. The downside to that could be that if you wash out or are asked to leave you'll have to pay back any tuition assistance you had either monetarily or by a two year enlistment.

Well what would my chances be of being shipped out to the frontlines? And how demanding is either program in changing lifestyles? From what I heard I think the most I would find worthwhile enough to last through would be the reserves.

[N22]

Also, if you're not adverse to the military, try for a military commissioning program. If you go ROTC you might get full ride, but there are other ways, such as the Marine Corps Platoon Leaders Class and Officer Candidate School which will usually pay for your college once you apply for the commission. The downside to that could be that if you wash out or are asked to leave you'll have to pay back any tuition assistance you had either monetarily or by a two year enlistment.

Well what would my chances be of being shipped out to the frontlines? And how demanding is either program in changing lifestyles? From what I heard I think the most I would find worthwhile enough to last through would be the reserves.

If you sign up with the ROTC then you will be non-deployable until you graduate. You can also sign a GRFD which is a guranteed reserve forces duty contract. That means that you will serve 8 years in a reserve unit after graduating. AKA one weekend a month and 2 weeks during the summer. I am currently doing ROTC right now. I have already been to Iraq(when I returned I got smart and joined ROTC) and do not have PTSD amputations or anything else that has been mentioned by some people here. Oh and so has my dad, uncle, and brother. All of your school will be paid for plus 350 to 500 dollars per month allowance depending on what year you are in school(freshmen,sohpmore....) So it is a realistic option if you don't mind some bs and a lot of working out.

[Harijan]

I'm not really certain about getting a graduate degree. I am going for a graphic design or illustration major (I'll decide when I get there). From what I hear these fields are based more on portfolios than anything else, and that BFA's are a definite requirement but I've never heard any strong opinions on MFA's. And I would like to attend a school that could bring my portfolio way up there, although those tend to run high up in costs.

Take a poll here, or anywhere and ask people if the career they have now is the career they wanted when the graduated high school. The results will likely be that very few people end up doing what they thought they would be doing when they started college. This is why the first year or two of college should be done as cheaply as possible.

If Graphics design is still what you want to do after 1 or 2 years, transfering to Columbia, or any other school will be cheap, and acceptance rates for transfer students are typically higher than acceptance rates for freshmen applicants.

You have nothing to to lose when it comes to the first few years of college, do it as cheap as you can.

As for the military, I have no experience there, everyone I know who went military or reserves has spent at least 2 years in either Iraq or Afghanistan (most more), their opinions range from "joining the military was the worst decision I ever made" to "joining the military was the best decision I ever made." Most are somewhere in the middle, along the lines of "it sucks, but its worth it.

[N22]

I am not saying that you will not be deployed at some point in the military cause it is bound to happen, but you will get all of your school paid for and you will be able to finish college before getting deployed. As long as you are in ROTC. Personally it is worth the sacrifice for me. The military is definetly not for everybody though.

[PLAYER57832]

First, it bodes well that you are now giving this so much thought. We can all look back and say "if only" ... but cannot change the past.

I spoke of parties earlier. One lesson I learned too late is that College CAN be as much about making contacts, learning how to make contacts. Of course, it is a double -edged sword, (maybe triple???). Grades ARE first, but not necessarily the very last point unless you are going for one of the extremely competetive fields like medicine, etc. Many a graduate has left only to find he lost out on a lucrative job to someone with lower grades, because they were not in the "right" fraternity, etc. This is more true in Business, some other fields. At the same time, "misdeeds" can equally come back to haunt you -- particularly anything involving alchohol and members of the opposite sex. Just use your brains (OK, I admit it, I'm a mom...)

Anyway, the bottom line is twofold. 1. Look at ALL your options, and really LOOK, don't just accept what you are told. Most schools have nice PR departments. Don't take their word for how they are doing (or the word of any one professor/teacher -- unfortunately some have too close a connection with certain schools). Look around for graduates. Ask professionals in the field what they think. Most will take a minute or two to talk to an eager, POLITE young person. (as you seem to be). It doesn't have to be in person, a phone call will do --- just be concise and specific. You want to know what school they reccommend, if any and if there are any they suggest avoiding. Also, ask about classes they reccommend .. but in less than 2 minutes.

2. As I said before, make the most of wherever you end up.... Now and in life. A Harvard degree might open a few more doors than, say, little town USA school, but you only need the 1 "right" door. Only you know what is really best for you.

[Anarkistsdream]

2. As I said before, make the most of wherever you end up.... Now and in life. A Harvard degree might open a few more doors than, say, little town USA school, but you only need the 1 "right" door. Only you know what is really best for you.

This has been the best thing said out of every post here.

Knowing what you want to do is one thing. KNowing how to get there is entirely different.

I go to a state school. It's been nothing but wonderful.

We actually have a great Graphic Design program here at OSU. It doesn't focus near as much on traditional art as it could.

Also, most professors in a state school have actual job experience in the field in which they teach. Every journalism professor I have had worked for at least 10 or 15 years in the real world, if not longer, before they began teaching.

Because of this, they can actual mentor you and help you achieve the goals you want.

And hell no to the community college thing. Not only can you not join clubs or organizations that would help you in your field, but you won't be prepared for 'real college' once you go there. Community college is just like high school. Don't do it. Not to mention, it's not as fun.

[Fruitcake]

Don't know if this if any help, but here is a copy of the letter I sent my Pa in my last year at School here in England, many years ago!

Dear Father.

As I am sure you are aware, I am most appreciative of the efforts you have put in on my behalf, thus far in my life. The numerous favours you have conferred upon me, will, I trust, be found not wholly unmerited by my improvements.

If I may misquote Mark Twain, I was saddened at the age of 13 to find out quite how ignorant you were. I must say, you seem to have learned a great deal more than I would have thought possible over the last 5 years.

Mother’s affections have always been a source of comfort to me, and I feel conscious that by attending my studies diligently is the best way to reward you both.

To this end, I have applied to Cambridge for my University. At this point I must ask you not to descend into a fit of apoplexy.

Having been there and seen the place, I can assure you, as an Oxford man, that the bestial goings on you have always imagined take place, do not. However, I have to ask this of you Father.

My fees and cash requirements for my time there will surely exceed my limited means. As you are aware, my recent attempts at denuding the local bookie of his home have gone sorely amiss. In fact, I see the rapscallion has managed to purchase a new car! I can assure you my lesson has been learnt, it is a closed door to me from now on.

The requirements of College are considerable, and I am certain, you would wish a Son of yours to feel confidant that whatever situation he may find himself in, he would have the necessary resources to overcome any obstacle.

If you could find it in your heart to furnish me with the fees and expenses I shall endeavour to repay this kindness with a success in my studies and I give you my undertaking to repay your generosity by being polite to Auntie Vera and Grandmother when they visit, I also promise to furnish myself with a Degree of stature that will ensure I furnish myself with a decent position upon leaving and am no longer a burden on yourself and Mother.

I am sure, that as a logical man, you will see the benefit of this and not having me requiring your ongoing assistance for many years as I struggle through the lower levels of my working career.

Yours etc.

[Anarkistsdream]

Don't know if this if any help, but here is a copy of the letter I sent my Pa in my last year at School here in England, many years ago!

Dear Father.

As I am sure you are aware, I am most appreciative of the efforts you have put in on my behalf, thus far in my life. The numerous favours you have conferred upon me, will, I trust, be found not wholly unmerited by my improvements.

If I may misquote Mark Twain, I was saddened at the age of 13 to find out quite how ignorant you were. I must say, you seem to have learned a great deal more than I would have thought possible over the last 5 years.

Mother’s affections have always been a source of comfort to me, and I feel conscious that by attending my studies diligently is the best way to reward you both.

To this end, I have applied to Cambridge for my University. At this point I must ask you not to descend into a fit of apoplexy.

Having been there and seen the place, I can assure you, as an Oxford man, that the bestial goings on you have always imagined take place, do not. However, I have to ask this of you Father.

My fees and cash requirements for my time there will surely exceed my limited means. As you are aware, my recent attempts at denuding the local bookie of his home have gone sorely amiss. In fact, I see the rapscallion has managed to purchase a new car! I can assure you my lesson has been learnt, it is a closed door to me from now on.

The requirements of College are considerable, and I am certain, you would wish a Son of yours to feel confidant that whatever situation he may find himself in, he would have the necessary resources to overcome any obstacle.

If you could find it in your heart to furnish me with the fees and expenses I shall endeavour to repay this kindness with a success in my studies and I give you my undertaking to repay your generosity by being polite to Auntie Vera and Grandmother when they visit, I also promise to furnish myself with a Degree of stature that will ensure I furnish myself with a decent position upon leaving and am no longer a burden on yourself and Mother.

I am sure, that as a logical man, you will see the benefit of this and not having me requiring your ongoing assistance for many years as I struggle through the lower levels of my working career.

Yours etc.

So tell us how it went.

Did he loan you the money?

[Fruitcake]

So tell us how it went.

Did he loan you the money?

Of course, he gave all I required and more. After all, the last thing he wanted was me lounging around the place like some louche ne'er do well.

He also made me pay it back years later when he joined me at Cheltenham races for a plunge job on a horse that skated in. We sat in the Restaurant, the chap came with my winnings (some thousands) and as I duly felt justifiably proud and was pocketing it, I noticed his hand out and in front of the assembled, he promptly drew a type written sheet from his inside pocket with the list of all monies and interest since College that I owed him. Naturally I had to settle the debt there and then (much to My Auntie Veras mirth!)

I ended up with £25!! and still had to pay the bill for lunch!! The card took a real hit that day!

[PLAYER57832]

That assumes once has parents actually able to help .. most of us don't .. at least here in the US

[Nobunaga]

... Join the military. If you're intelligent you can get a good job while you're in, nuclear engineer, air traffic control, etc... and go nowhere near a war. They offer some huge bonuses if you sign on for some fields (tens of thousands, 60k is the largest I know of).

... Serve your time, be a man when you get out, then go to school and kick arse.

... Worked for me.

...

[PLAYER57832]

yeah, if you don't mind a little thing called "battle". YOu may luck out and not have to fight, but there is no gaurantee... and that 8 years total used to mean 1-2 years active and 6 of 1 weekend a month for reserves, but now ... 8 years can mean 8 years of being on the list to be called .. or actually called.

It is definitely an option for some .. glad it worked out for you, but NOT something to do lightl, without really considering the full impact.

Also, the career options are pretty limited.

[static_ice]

....

[static_ice]

... Join the military. If you're intelligent you can get a good job while you're in, nuclear engineer, air traffic control, etc... and go nowhere near a war. They offer some huge bonuses if you sign on for some fields (tens of thousands, 60k is the largest I know of).

... Serve your time, be a man when you get out, then go to school and kick arse.

... Worked for me.

...

I doubt I'd be picked to get any nice jobs... bomb defuser sounds fun...

[PLAYER57832]

PR=Public Relations=Advertising.

On th 8 years... be sure to look at your TOTAL commitment, not just the active time and reserve time. Options vary, but you may "only" have to serve 2 years, then have 6 in reserves, or you may have more "active", fewer reserve years. In either case, the total years i which you can be called up are usually 8 (now .. it may change). In other words, you are done in 8 (maybe), but can be called up to full service any time within those 8 years unless you are actively in school ... and if you are in school, unless going for medical doctor, usually the time is postponed and not eliminated.

[Hologram]

Also, if you're not adverse to the military, try for a military commissioning program. If you go ROTC you might get full ride, but there are other ways, such as the Marine Corps Platoon Leaders Class and Officer Candidate School which will usually pay for your college once you apply for the commission. The downside to that could be that if you wash out or are asked to leave you'll have to pay back any tuition assistance you had either monetarily or by a two year enlistment.

Well what would my chances be of being shipped out to the frontlines? And how demanding is either program in changing lifestyles? From what I heard I think the most I would find worthwhile enough to last through would be the reserves.

Well, I know that for the Marine Corps, the Commandant (big honcho) wants all Marines to serve at least one tour in Iraq, but that doesn't necessarily mean frontlines. For instance, you could be a personnel officer and get a nice desk job inside the Green Zone.

As far as changing lifestyles, in the Marines, you're going to have to want it. You'll definitely have to strictly adhere to military discipline and courtesy, but other than doing what other people tell you to do or go to jail, and increased physical training, I don't think it's really all that bad. Especially if you're an officer.

[apey]

Yeah just be careful with them student loans

My hubby got a loan for 6,000 to pay for his school and we have paid over 40,000 for it and they still want more and to make it so much better we can't find an attorney who will help us get our money back because they are virtually untouchable (the loan companies)

[Hologram]

In any case, if you're considering the military as a possible way to pay for college or maybe as a career, go to your local recruiting offices and/or officer selection offices, go to each branch and see what they have to offer. The basic rundown is this: Marine Corps is all about honour, courage, commitment, every Marine's a rifleman, etc, etc.
The Army will throw money at you every which way to get you to sign up.
The Navy is good for living in confined quarters with a bunch of guys (and some girls) while transporting Marines every which way
The Air Force is good if you want a good computer or flying job.

Obviously, I'm biased towards the Marine Corps, but seriously, go to the local recruiters and scope out your options. The military is not all what the flower children or Code Pink make it out to be.


P.S. But if you do decide to go infantry or something to that effect, remember: kill bodies.

Semper Fi

[PLAYER57832]

Yeah just be careful with them student loans

My hubby got a loan for 6,000 to pay for his school and we have paid over 40,000 for it and they still want more and to make it so much better we can't find an attorney who will help us get our money back because they are virtually untouchable (the loan companies)

Good luck. I had a similar experience. At one point, I had to get the dean of my school to verify that I was a student -- they accepted none of the official records, wanted a form that was none existant (seriously non-existant). He finally threatened that company would not be allowed to operate in his university if they did not acknowledge my enrollment and defer my loan.

Each time my loan was sold, it somehow reset to the full value. The loan transferred, but all payment records somehow dissappeared. In the end, I was part of a congressional investigation (no joking).... and I STILL had to pay more than I was due.

My advice. Keep each and EVERY piece of paper you get OR SEND to any loan official. KEEP hard copies of every check - -back and front. Call your congress folks (and KEEP calling). Be sure that you follow up ANY phone calls with a WRITTEN letter (phone calls are not legally binding) AND make sure to send it "return receipt" .. but also be sure to copy the letter, AFTER you sign it with blue ink -- and dated, then have the copy date-stamped by the post office and staple it with your letter. The company will still try to question this, but eventually, you should be some sort of reconciliation.

I don't know the details. If you miss even one payment, fail to submit documentation or fail to keep written proof, then those charges may well be considered valid. Be absolutely sure your husband is not trying to hide earlier poor record keeping.

If he truly HAS done everything correctly, then anything sent over the mail is considered Mail Fraud, and subject to penalties by federal law. Also, though these companies are EXTREMELY difficult to tackle, they are subject to other laws. The thing is, you have to be extremely diligent. Too many students plan is just to throw papers in the garbage, claim they haven't received bills .... etc.

[N22]

5 questions. Is there anything I'll be doing before I graduate (during school), can anyone who wants to sign a GRFD, are you saying that even if I sign a GRFD I'll be deployed eventually, what kind of stuff do you do in said reserve unit, and after 8 years would I be completely done with the military and free to do whatever I wanted?

Question1-Some ROTC programs are harder than others. The one I am at right now is pretty lax. We do PT 3 days a week at 0600. We have class on Tuesday and Thursday and a 1 a half hour lab on Thursday afternoon. Usually we will have 2 FTX's per semester. FTX is going out in the field and running practice missions along with some land navigation usually. Between your junior and senior year you will go to LDAC. It is a 33 day training in Ft. Lewis Washington.
Question2- To my knowledge GRFD is open to any ROTC cadet.
Question3- If you are in the reserves for 8 years then there is very good chance you will get deployed at least once. Usually in either Iraq, Afghanistan. or Bosnia. Depends on what your job is and what unit you are in.
I hope this all helps in your decision. As somebody as has already said though, go to all the recruiters and see what they can offer you. Check your options and put some real thought into whatever is that you want to do.
Question4- Once again every unit differs in what they do on your drill weekend. Some dont do a damn thing unfortunately while others will be training to improve on whatever job it is that you picked.
Question5- Yes after 8 years you can either sign a contract to continue in the military or decide that you are done with it.

[PLAYER57832]

5 questions. Is there anything I'll be doing before I graduate (during school), can anyone who wants to sign a GRFD, are you saying that even if I sign a GRFD I'll be deployed eventually, what kind of stuff do you do in said reserve unit, and after 8 years would I be completely done with the military and free to do whatever I wanted?

Of course, keep up your grades, stay out of trouble, and make sure you have whatever math/science, etc. you might need. Summer school, classes at your local community college (consider this further high school, not actually college) are all still available to you. In fact, though it is tough to do, in some cases you may want to take (may even have to take) a class or two outside of your "real" college to fulfill specific requirements .. either at a local community college/training center or online.


but the BIG THING is to read everything carefully and thoroughly ... and to reread it ... and read it AGAIN BEFORE you sign. Get ANY promises in writing (and understand that these may not be binding in the military -- "defense need" overrides everything else - but usually they at least try to comply). Be ESPECIALLY careful of any promises made by the recruiter. It is not so much that they will lie, just that those folks are specifically selected and trained to look almost entirely at the positives. And they have a LOT of pressure on them to "produce" in the form of recruits.

The military can be a good option, but definitely understand what is involved and be VERY SURE before you sign anything. If possible, talk to folks who are no longer in the military -- those with good experiences AND bad. Talk to your family, see what they really think. LISTEN to them all. But, ultimately, remember you are now an adult. You will make the decision and YOU will live with the consequences.

And agan -- whether the military or anything else, read, reread, and READ AGAIN anything fully BEFORE you sign -- especially the small print

[btownmeggy]

And agan -- whether the military or anything else, read, reread, and READ AGAIN anything fully BEFORE you sign -- especially the small print

And when you sign the contract, you're required on penalty of imprisonment to adhere to it, but they can change the terms ANY TIME THEY WANT.

Sounds like dirty dealing to me.

[PLAYER57832]

And agan -- whether the military or anything else, read, reread, and READ AGAIN anything fully BEFORE you sign -- especially the small print

And when you sign the contract, you're required on penalty of imprisonment to adhere to it, but they can change the terms ANY TIME THEY WANT.

Sounds like dirty dealing to me.

The military writes its own rules, no matter the country. You sign up, and you are no longer your own person. Still, that means you need to go in with your eyes WIDE open and being quite sure it is what you really want, but I know enough folks who are happy to have made that choice (even a couple of Annapolis, West Point grads) to say it can be a good thing for SOME people. This is true even in "peace" times, but especially now.