Why does the rest of the World hate Venezuela?

[SirSebstar]

[quote="jay_a2j"}


Not 1/191. According to this chart the US gives 25% of all UN contrabutions.

http://infojapan.org/policy/other/blueb ... -4-004.htm[/quote]
WRONG

say can we keep data up to date? I dont know about you, but 1984??? come on!
nowadays the US pays 22% of the total budget, which is 22 million a year.
Considering the prices it paid previously, their payment is dropping about every year.
Thats very cool considering inflation and stuff.
Also the US is the greatest influence in the UN. not only has it got a veto, but its very influential in other ways too.
The fat that not everybody is jumping for some kind of war is actually a good thing in my book,
anyways
here is where i got that last bit of info(over 2005):
http://www.globalpolicy.org/finance/ass ... es2005.pdf

[SirSebstar]

one more note, there is a motion on the floor limiting the max payments to 10%. In order to have less influence according to the who pays makes the policy...
lets hope this works, and the us can back off.

[vtmarik]

nowadays the US pays 22% of the total budget, which is 22 million a year.
Considering the prices it paid previously, their payment is dropping about every year.

Good info, but it begs the question:
Why isn't the UN budget equally paid by all 191 members?

22 million divided by 191 equals about $115,183.25 per nation. I'm sure even the teensy-tiny nations can make that payment.

That way power is distributed evenly. But then again, that would disrupt the nice, orderly system we have in place today that gets so much done.

EDIT: Hehe, I like that word near the top of the document: biennium. Teehee.

Yep, time for bed now.

[SirSebstar]

because this way the US can keeps its veto, oh and have a very big say in just about anything, not to mention the place of UN HQ which keeps lots of money spent in the us.
funny how that works.

equal power to the masses, i dont think the US would abstante of its veto even if it did not have to pay anything.

as a reserve argument, the US makes up about 30% of the market value at the time of the policy.
its only fair to have an distribution of money based on gross national product per citizen.

[jay_a2j]

Not 1/191. According to this chart the US gives 25% of all UN contrabutions.

http://infojapan.org/policy/other/blueb ... -4-004.htm

Dude, that chart is a little out of date (The only years on it are 1983 and 84). It mentions the USSR for f*ck's sake!

There are 191 member nations and each one has to pay dues, that's how I arrived at my figure just in case you were wondering.

What you overlook is that all 191 countries do not pay the same anount to the UN. The US is the biggest supporter of the UN in terms of MONEY.

[SirSebstar]

What you overlook is that all 191 countries do not pay the same anount to the UN. The US is the biggest supporter of the UN in terms of MONEY.

the US is NOT the biggest contribute, but it is the biggest single contributor. However it is also the single biggest influence in the UN, or do you feel that is not the case?

[jay_a2j]

the US is NOT the biggest contribute, but it is the biggest single contributor.

And China does not have the largest population... it has a larger population than any other country.

However it is also the single biggest influence in the UN, or do you feel that is not the case?

Hmm lets see.... It is no secret that the UN does not support Israel.... in fact they are a thorn in Israels' side. The US supports Israel. So much for that influance.

[SirSebstar]

And China does not have the largest population... it has a larger population than any other country.

and is still not the world leading economy, basicly most chinese are living a live more poorly then a new york beggar.
again, they cant put up the cash like the US can. the chineese are still a second world country.
But on another note, its good to see who you look up to for morals and stuff. pesky religous group getting in the way, kill em. woman rights, child labour, not a problem.

sure, real sweet country you picked there

Hmm lets see.... It is no secret that the UN does not support Israel.... in fact they are a thorn in Israels' side. The US supports Israel. So much for that influance.

mm, sure and who are you kidding?
there has not been a resolution passed that really sticked to the Israeli that the US did not allow. besides the Israely/ Palestinan wars are not only to be blamed on Israel. Middle east has been a battle ground for the us/ussr(former) cold war for years.

you dont bake eggs without breaking them, but as far as i know no UN peasekeeping force has "liberated" the israeli from their chosen goverment.
It is a fact that the US does not care about the UN unless they can use them. Thats telltale sign enough about their disregard, but also their believe they are above the UN

[qeee1]

Back to the issue at hand, Chavez may not be perfect, and some of his actions might be carried out with image in mind, however on the whole he is good for the country, and his image conscious policies can be excused given that there are many out there trying to tar his image.

Has anyone seen "The Revolution will not be telivised"? It's a documentary made with the help of the Irish Film Board about the revolution against Chavez and subsequent counter revolution. Good film...

[Backglass]

Back to the issue at hand, Chavez may not be perfect, and some of his actions might be carried out with image in mind, however on the whole he is good for the country, and his image conscious policies can be excused given that there are many out there trying to tar his image.

I have to disagree. I have been to Venezuela many times, and one of my close co-workers immigrated to the US from Caracas last year.

Chavez is NOT a good guy being played as evil by the media. He is as dirty and corrupt as they come, not to mention a demagouge. He is slowly removing free speech from the media. Outspoken opponents just dissappear. There are HUGE amounts of very poor, uneducated people in Venezuela and he panders to them for the vote. "The rich people are fucking you! The gringo's are fucking you! I will take the money and land from the rich people and distribute it to YOU!!!" and of course when you have no education or food, your scream "YESSS!!" He sends hoardes of his people in the barios (slums) with money to buy votes at election time. It is very common, and again when you are starving, you could care less who the president is.

My co-worker worked for one of the top radio stations in Caracas. When they DARED to air an editorial opinion saying Chavez was wrong, the radio station was firebombed. Of course Chavez just smiles and says "Hey it wasnt me, it must have been someone who didnt like what you said". He then instituted a national law saying that it was a felony to "disparage" the president or any of his cabinet on the national airwaves. The wording was very loose (intentionally) so of course nobody want to be the first to test the law and see what exactly is considering "differing opinion" and "disparagement".

Make no mistake...Chavez is a serious dictator in the making.

[SirSebstar]

edit.. There are HUGE amounts of very poor, uneducated people in Venezuela and he panders to them for the vote. ...edit

ofcourse there is no huge amount of poor people in the US, because those roads are paved with gold ect ect.

another more valid point however is that Chavez is a politician verse is latin politics (as in political removal of "contenders").
it is something to worry about, but then again.
part of the instability is cause by american politics and money and there are worse figures still around.

why is chavez so much more likely to be bashed, i dont get it

[Backglass]

fwiw, the "world" doesnt hate Venezuela. Just their wacko leader. Venezuelans are good people.

of course there is no huge amount of poor people in the US, because those roads are paved with gold ect ect.

What is your point? We are talking about Chavez. Of course there are poor people everywhere, but instead of doing things to help them change their situation, Chavez is going about re-distributing the wealth. It helps short term, and makes the lower classes feel good (Those damn RICH people! They must have stolen all that money!) but does nothing to help the poverty striken in the long run when that money runs out.

part of the instability is cause by american politics and money

How exactly do American politics cause instability in Venezuela? Do you realize how much oil they produce? The venezuelan government has plenty of money. Where is it all going? Much is going to help Cuba.

and there are worse figures still around.

OK so there are worse leaders. The topic of discussion is about Venezuela.

why is chavez so much more likely to be bashed, i dont get it

Take a vacation to Caracas and ask the average venezuelan what they think. Or just read some of the blogs from Venezuela. He gets a lot of support with his bush bashing...hey, I hate bush too. But Chavez is bad news for the venezualan people. I hope they revolt and kick his ass out.

[Stopper]

fwiw, the "world" doesnt hate Venezuela. Just their wacko leader. Venezuelans are good people.

of course there is no huge amount of poor people in the US, because those roads are paved with gold ect ect.

What is your point? We are talking about Chavez. Of course there are poor people everywhere, but instead of doing things to help them change their situation, Chavez is going about re-distributing the wealth. It helps short term, and makes the lower classes feel good (Those damn RICH people! They must have stolen all that money!) but does nothing to help the poverty striken in the long run when that money runs out.

There's nothing wrong with redistribution of wealth per se, many governments do it on a permanent basis - it's called welfare. What exactly do you mean when you talk about the money running out?

part of the instability is cause by american politics and money

How exactly do American politics cause instability in Venezuela? Do you realize how much oil they produce? The venezuelan government has plenty of money. Where is it all going? Much is going to help Cuba.

The Americans may (or may not) have had involvement in the attempted 2002 coup - and at any rate, seemed to condone it.

As to Cuba, they do provide world-class doctors (who help the poor) in exchange for oil. The Venezueleans wouldn't prop up a dictatorship for nothing.

why is chavez so much more likely to be bashed, i dont get it

Take a vacation to Caracas and ask the average venezuelan what they think. Or just read some of the blogs from Venezuela. He gets a lot of support with his bush bashing...hey, I hate bush too. But Chavez is bad news for the venezualan people. I hope they revolt and kick his ass out.

You COULD ask the average Venezuelan, but you'll find a sharply divided society, just like everywhere else. Why would you want a revolution against a democratically-elected leader? It IS a democracy, so let's see if they get free and fair elections in 2008, or whenever it is, and see whether they re-elect Chavez.

[vtmarik]

OK, All you have to do is say: I think Hugo Chavez doesn't really care about poor people in America, He only helped them out as a propoganda stunt to make the American Gov't look bad!

with nothing more on the post, not a quote from me but a statement from you.


if you do that, i'll send it.

Oh, never mind. I thought you just wanted me to say that you were groovy not spout off right-wing rhetoric. Never mind, I just got $50 from my dad. I'm cool.

[Backglass]

It IS a democracy, so let's see if they get free and fair elections in 2008, or whenever it is, and see whether they re-elect Chavez.

The keywords here are "Free & Fair". Chavez is neither. The stories of vote fraud are rampant from the last attempt to oust him. I tend to believe them.

We shall see I guess.

[Stopper]

It IS a democracy, so let's see if they get free and fair elections in 2008, or whenever it is, and see whether they re-elect Chavez.

The keywords here are "Free & Fair". Chavez is neither. The stories of vote fraud are rampant from the last attempt to oust him. I tend to believe them.

We shall see I guess.

Actually, I looked it up, and the next presidential election is next month, apparently...

I don't want to give the impression I'm pro-Chavez or anything, BTW, but it's just that when there is a situation like Venezuela's, where both sides are at each other's throat to the extent that they are, I find it difficult to believe ANY stories coming out of there. I certainly wouldn't trust the US government or my own, either, because I doubt our national governments have the Venezuelans' best interests at heart...to say the least.

[ksslemp]

OK, All you have to do is say: I think Hugo Chavez doesn't really care about poor people in America, He only helped them out as a propoganda stunt to make the American Gov't look bad!

with nothing more on the post, not a quote from me but a statement from you.


if you do that, i'll send it.

Oh, never mind. I thought you just wanted me to say that you were groovy not spout off right-wing rhetoric. Never mind, I just got $50 from my dad. I'm cool.

In the real world, we call it TRUTH!

[ksslemp]

If and when Chavez wins that election, the first thing he will do is remove term limit restrictions on the office of President. (pretty shady)

I don't know for sure, but my sense is that Chavez was Free and Fairly elected, just like Saddam Hussein was Free and Fairly elected. He will probably receive 100% of the vote!

I think the Guy has Mental Problems! Did you hear his U.N. speech?:evil: What a Wack-Job. And the Vice-President is just as Bad!

You'd have to lay blame for Chavez being in power on the corrupt politicians that came before him, so i don't blame the people for wanting change. but a socialist revolution is not the answer.

[Stopper]

If and when Chavez wins that election, the first thing he will do is remove term limit restrictions on the office of President. (pretty shady)

And if he does that, (and because his political party apparently has complete control of parliament, and presumably can change the constitution), then I'll agree the man is definitely a dictator!

I don't know for sure, but my sense is that Chavez was Free and Fairly elected, just like Saddam Hussein was Free and Fairly elected. He will probably receive 100% of the vote!

We'll see though, won't we. 3 December I think Wikipedia said it was.

I think the Guy has Mental Problems! Did you hear his U.N. speech?:evil: What a Wack-Job. And the Vice-President is just as Bad!

But you must admit, it was entertaining.

but a socialist revolution is not the answer.

And nor is Regime Change by America!!

[strike wolf]

You know this went from a semi-joke to a serious conversation.

[ksslemp]

I think the Guy has Mental Problems! Did you hear his U.N. speech?:evil: What a Wack-Job. And the Vice-President is just as Bad!

But you must admit, it was entertaining.


Yes, I admit it was Funny!
"Hire the Handicapped, They're fun to watch"!

[vtmarik]

You know this went from a semi-joke to a serious conversation.

That's very unlike our forum. Usually the serious ideas turn into jokes.

[Stopper]

I think the Guy has Mental Problems! Did you hear his U.N. speech?:evil: What a Wack-Job. And the Vice-President is just as Bad!

But you must admit, it was entertaining.


Yes, I admit it was Funny!
"Hire the Handicapped, They're fun to watch"!

No I've a better idea to make the UN more fun - we could get a grinning buffoon to be British PM, and a chimpanzee to be US President.... No wait, we've already done that....

[strike wolf]

You know this went from a semi-joke to a serious conversation.

That's very unlike our forum. Usually the serious ideas turn into jokes.

Do you think it's because I was too serious when I made my joke on page one?

[ksslemp]

I think the Guy has Mental Problems! Did you hear his U.N. speech?:evil: What a Wack-Job. And the Vice-President is just as Bad!

But you must admit, it was entertaining.


Yes, I admit it was Funny!
"Hire the Handicapped, They're fun to watch"!

No I've a better idea to make the UN more fun - we could get a grinning buffoon to be British PM, and a chimpanzee to be US President.... No wait, we've already done that....

Stopper, Are you smarter than President Bush?