Two Sides Mafia: Side B, EndGame, It Spreads

[shieldgenerator7]

Ok Rodion, I beleiveyour claim for now. So if you're telling the truth, then Sully is lying or there is a weird mechanic going on.

SO this means that Sully has some investigative role in Side A and has SKizo in Side B. (assuming his story is true)

One thought I do have about Rodion's claim tho is that it is fairly easy to claim something like watcher and say no one targeted him (as te only risk is being counter-claimed by the actual watcher)

I'll wait for a counter-claim but I'm not sure if we'll get one. If VS is truthful then the real watcher will probably claim, but if there is no watcher counter claim then eiter we have no watcher or Rodion really is the watcher.

Well anyway I hope this post is cohesive and legible.

FASTPOSTED

-SG7 ( )

[Rodion]

One thought I do have about Rodion's claim tho is that it is fairly easy to claim something like watcher and say no one targeted him (as te only risk is being counter-claimed by the actual watcher)

Actually, there would also be the risk of seeing someone claim to have visited Edocsil. And the same risk would renew itself everyday when I had to present my former night result. Watcher is definitely not a safe role to fakeclaim.

[shieldgenerator7]

One thought I do have about Rodion's claim tho is that it is fairly easy to claim something like watcher and say no one targeted him (as te only risk is being counter-claimed by the actual watcher)

Actually, there would also be the risk of seeing someone claim to have visited Edocsil. And the same risk would renew itself everyday when I had to present my former night result. Watcher is definitely not a safe role to fakeclaim.

Good point, Rodion, I didn't catch that. t definitely adds credibility to your claim. So did anyone target edoc last night? If not, then Rodion has a pretty solid case.

Now what does this imply about Sully? It either means he lied or got misinformation.

@pancakemix: You swpepd yourself with saf last night, correct? Did you swap yourself because he had to or because you voluntariyl swapped yourself? (if you could only swap yourself then there' a possibility that there's a busdriver who can swap others)

IDEA! It's so simple I don't know why I didn't think of this before. Assuming VS and Rodion are both being truthful, this gives clear evidence of a Mafia Framer. (if it wasn't a busdriver or somethign of the sort)

-SG7 ( )

[Rodion]

Mafia framers force "guilty/mafia" results, not 3rd-party ones.

[shieldgenerator7]

Mafia framers force "guilty/mafia" results, not 3rd-party ones.

True maybe / made it that way? Heh maybe someone switched you with milkshake or something. Either that, or it'll boil down to one or both of you are lying.

[soundman]

VS, what do you mean when you say you are the ACTUAL Town Lunatic?

This is what I mean:

A: Role Side A, “The Town Noun (in the same quotes as CM5)”, Role
B: Role Side B, The ACTUAL Town Noun (same noun, no quotes), Role

-Sully

Thus, my Side A role is "The Town Lunatic".

-Sully

I got that. I guess I should have made my question clearer. What is the difference between the two roles? Are you naive on one side?

[Victor Sullivan]

VS, what do you mean when you say you are the ACTUAL Town Lunatic?

This is what I mean:

A: Role Side A, “The Town Noun (in the same quotes as CM5)”, Role
B: Role Side B, The ACTUAL Town Noun (same noun, no quotes), Role

-Sully

Thus, my Side A role is "The Town Lunatic".

-Sully

I got that. I guess I should have made my question clearer. What is the difference between the two roles? Are you naive on one side?

The one in quotes is used more in the nickname sense ("The Clown" because someone jokes around a lot versus the clown that is, in fact, an actual clown).

-Sully

To explain, then, my Side A role is "The Town Lunatic", Special Town Cop. Basically, I'm really good at what I do, except I do it for the wrong side (thus the nickname). Each night, I investigate one person's Side B role. I was roleblocked. Given that the action is a Side A action, I would think the roleblocker to be from Side A, not Side B, as if a roleblocker from Side B roleblocked me, they should roleblock my Skitzo role.

That should help explain things. Right now we're pretty much stuck, I think. Rodion could be lying, I could be lying, or we could both be right and someone busdrove Rodion with someone last night. If the busdriver is town, it might be good for that person to shed some light on who this third party is. While I'm not keen on outing more town roles, I think it would be worth the busdriver outing himself to get this third party, as we could be dealing with an anti-town third party.

Of course, there's still the chance of there being a mafia busdriver and all that good stuff.

-Sully

[Rodion]

Who do you claim to have targeted with your Side A action?

And a question that was ignored: are you forced to use your B action or not?

[Victor Sullivan]

Who do you claim to have targeted with your Side A action?

Irrelevant.

And a question that was ignored: are you forced to use your B action or not?

I merely forgot. I am not overeager.

-Sully

[edocsil]

VS, what do you mean when you say you are the ACTUAL Town Lunatic?

This is what I mean:

A: Role Side A, “The Town Noun (in the same quotes as CM5)”, Role
B: Role Side B, The ACTUAL Town Noun (same noun, no quotes), Role

-Sully

Thus, my Side A role is "The Town Lunatic".

-Sully

I got that. I guess I should have made my question clearer. What is the difference between the two roles? Are you naive on one side?

The one in quotes is used more in the nickname sense ("The Clown" because someone jokes around a lot versus the clown that is, in fact, an actual clown).

-Sully

To explain, then, my Side A role is "The Town Lunatic", Special Town Cop. Basically, I'm really good at what I do, except I do it for the wrong side (thus the nickname). Each night, I investigate one person's Side B role. I was roleblocked. Given that the action is a Side A action, I would think the roleblocker to be from Side A, not Side B, as if a roleblocker from Side B roleblocked me, they should roleblock my Skitzo role.

That should help explain things. Right now we're pretty much stuck, I think. Rodion could be lying, I could be lying, or we could both be right and someone busdrove Rodion with someone last night. If the busdriver is town, it might be good for that person to shed some light on who this third party is. While I'm not keen on outing more town roles, I think it would be worth the busdriver outing himself to get this third party, as we could be dealing with an anti-town third party.

Of course, there's still the chance of there being a mafia busdriver and all that good stuff.

-Sully

I too agree with this. If a town BD does not come forward I think we should hang rodion. If he is telling the complete truth we will know the scum BD exists, and that is critical to the towns planing. It would completely prevent us from discussing proposed night actions for fear of driving.

[Rodion]

Wait, so I die and then you assume mafia has a busdriver? How about this skitzo thing getting wrong results? Or Victor lying?

Mafia busdrivers are rarely used due to their extreme power, plus we already have 1 busdriver flip in the game. If you are going to lynch an investigative power role only to conclude the unlikeliest of the scenarios and disregard the ones that are actually plausible, I don't even know how to continue this sentence.

You know the game is doomed when Shield is the only one playing it the right way, you know, actually waiting for a counterclaim (or something equivalent) before lynching one of the strongest - yeah, I said it - town power roles under the sketchy accusation that he "may be a SK".

[safariguy5]

Wait, so I die and then you assume mafia has a busdriver? How about this skitzo thing getting wrong results? Or Victor lying?

Mafia busdrivers are rarely used due to their extreme power, plus we already have 1 busdriver flip in the game. If you are going to lynch an investigative power role only to conclude the unlikeliest of the scenarios and disregard the ones that are actually plausible, I don't even know how to continue this sentence.

You know the game is doomed when Shield is the only one playing it the right way, you know, actually waiting for a counterclaim (or something equivalent) before lynching one of the strongest - yeah, I said it - town power roles under the sketchy accusation that he "may be a SK".

Again with the condescending posts I see.

Doesn't mean you're SKer, cult could be possible as well. Lyncher of some sort.

[shieldgenerator7]

Wait, so I die and then you assume mafia has a busdriver? How about this skitzo thing getting wrong results? Or Victor lying?

Mafia busdrivers are rarely used due to their extreme power, plus we already have 1 busdriver flip in the game. If you are going to lynch an investigative power role only to conclude the unlikeliest of the scenarios and disregard the ones that are actually plausible, I don't even know how to continue this sentence.

You know the game is doomed when Shield is the only one playing it the right way, you know, actually waiting for a counterclaim (or something equivalent) before lynching one of the strongest - yeah, I said it - town power roles under the sketchy accusation that he "may be a SK".

I'm flattered. I would sig that but my sig is full

Yes there are multiple possibilities here, it seems edoc may have overlooked:

Assuming we lynch Rodion and he flips Town Watcher like he says he will, there are multiple possible explanations:
-1. VS is lying. This could one of the most easy ones to believe
-2. VS is also naive/paranoid/insane when it comes to using his investigative role
-3. A busdriver of some sort switched Rodion with another player, thus swaying VS's results
-4. Mafia Framer framed Rodion last night. However being that the result was 3rd party, this seems unlikely
-5. Rodion IS third party but his death role is Town. Probability: Not Likely
-6. Also, as another wild though, maybe there's a role that's meant to throw off investigations and VS was targetted last night
-7. I don't have a number 7 so I'll just stop here before I spew any more extraterrestrial conspiracy theories.

Of these possibilities I'm more likely to conclude either 1 or 3.

Assuming we lynch VS and he flips Town Skitzo likes he says he will:
-1. Rodion is third-party
-2. VS is secretly naive/paranoid/insane
-3. Busdriver mechanic going on
-4. Mafia Framer that strangely renders target as 3rd party.

Of these it'd probably come down to #1.

If we lynch both of them and they're exactly what they say they are, then either 2, 3, or 4 are true (most likely).

*I'd like to note that this is pre-analysis given a possible action in the future, and is not the best way to decide who to lynch

-SG7 ( )

[Rodion]

Wait, so I die and then you assume mafia has a busdriver? How about this skitzo thing getting wrong results? Or Victor lying?

Mafia busdrivers are rarely used due to their extreme power, plus we already have 1 busdriver flip in the game. If you are going to lynch an investigative power role only to conclude the unlikeliest of the scenarios and disregard the ones that are actually plausible, I don't even know how to continue this sentence.

You know the game is doomed when Shield is the only one playing it the right way, you know, actually waiting for a counterclaim (or something equivalent) before lynching one of the strongest - yeah, I said it - town power roles under the sketchy accusation that he "may be a SK".

Again with the condescending posts I see.

Believe me, I wish I did not feel constantly baited into being condescending, but there's a limit to how much crap I can take.

For what it's worth, the tl;dr of Edoc's post is the following:
"let's trust the 'ACTUAL lunatic' and lynch Rodion. If Rodion flips town, which would make him the only confirmed town in the game so far, we'll completely disregard the scenarios he considered more likely and will conclude the one he mentioned to be the unlikeliest (that there is a mafia busdriver). Not only does that mean VS is getting away scott free for leading a mislynch, it also opens up the possibility that tomorrow he'll claim another 3rd-party result that we most likely will be forced to trust (because odds of VS picking exactly one of the two swapped players is 1 in 10)"

Doesn't mean you're SKer, cult could be possible as well. Lyncher of some sort.

Cults are pretty rare and I've never heard of a "cult recruiter watcher". Not only is the existence of a cult unlikely, but also assuming it exists you're doing it wrong in wanting to get me killed instead of searching for the recruiter (or the mafia... or the lab coat SK...).

WIFOM, but lyncher optimal play is to open D2 claiming a non-cop (joat, inventor, "skitzo") guilty result to get the wagon growing fast (you don't claim cop because you'd likely be counterclaimed). I find a lyncher to be unlikely, but if this game has a lyncher, guess who fits the bill?

[jonty125]

Which one to lynch, skitzo or watcher. Pretty painful to say but I say we lynch the watcher "Rodion", if he is (the watcher) then we go all out on VS, if he isn't, then the risk paid off.

[edocsil]

Rodion, I don't even feel like responding to that post. In short, and investigative has called you a liar and I see no reason to disbelieve him.

[drunkmonkey]

I, for one, think Rodion is telling the truth. Watcher is not a good role to fakeclaim, as he'd have to randomly guess that someone was or wasn't visited each night, which runs an extreme risk of being counter-claimed. I also don't think it's out of the question that the "ACTUAL town lunatic" gets an insane investigative result. I'd rather test Rodion's role for another night.

[drunkmonkey]

To explain, then, my Side A role is "The Town Lunatic", Special Town Cop. Basically, I'm really good at what I do, except I do it for the wrong side (thus the nickname). Each night, I investigate one person's Side B role. I was roleblocked. Given that the action is a Side A action, I would think the roleblocker to be from Side A, not Side B, as if a roleblocker from Side B roleblocked me, they should roleblock my Skitzo role.

I missed this the first time (I was trying to catch up from my phone while I was gone), and the fact that he gets to investigate Side B from his Side A action has me almost convinced that he doesn't get a sane investigative result from his Side B action.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

hey guys sorry i had a pretty busy weekend (family is in town) so i didnt have much chance to read anything but i just read up and heres what i think

i can believe rodions claim. and i believe VS as well. but i realy dont know who to choose in this situation. ill think on it and get back to you when i decide.

p.s. im purchasing a laptop either today or tommorow so ill be more active in the near future

[shieldgenerator7]

Wait, I just noticed that VS supposedly targeted Rodion with both his actions. Is this true and why target the same player twice in a night?

[jonty125]

VS said he was roleblocked on Side A (who was wandering to Side B) and that who he targeted was irrelevant.

[shieldgenerator7]

VS said he was roleblocked on Side A (who was wandering to Side B) and that who he targeted was irrelevant.

I thought he said he targeted Rodion with his Side A action. maybe my memory is mistaken

[jonty125]

VS said he was roleblocked on Side A (who was wandering to Side B) and that who he targeted was irrelevant.

I thought he said he targeted Rodion with his Side A action. maybe my memory is mistaken

That was his Skitzo B side

[Rodion]

Rodion, I don't even feel like responding to that post. In short, and investigative has called you a liar and I see no reason to disbelieve him.

This is not where the issue with your former post lies. The issue stems from seeing my flip, realizing VS was not correct and assuming the most unlikely of the possibilities while disregarding the possibilities I considered more likely (after seeing my town flip you should at least make an effort to consider my thoughts, no?).

In short, the issue is you want me to die so you can jump to likely wrong conclusions.

[edocsil]

Rodion, I don't even feel like responding to that post. In short, and investigative has called you a liar and I see no reason to disbelieve him.

This is not where the issue with your former post lies. The issue stems from seeing my flip, realizing VS was not correct and assuming the most unlikely of the possibilities while disregarding the possibilities I considered more likely (after seeing my town flip you should at least make an effort to consider my thoughts, no?).

In short, the issue is you want me to die so you can jump to likely wrong conclusions.

Fair enough. There is more then one conclusion. There could be misdirection (BD or what have you) or VS could be a liar. Although I am uncertain what his motives would be unless he is a lyncher.