Hurling: Fastest Field Sport - VACATION

[rocky mountain]

ya, thats the bad thing about playing team games on objective maps... could the xml be updated to make it so that the team can hold it, not just individual players?...

[wcaclimbing]

The last update is all the way back on page 9. Do you guys have any idea when the next update will be finished?

[seamusk]

The last update is all the way back on page 9. Do you guys have any idea when the next update will be finished?

Yes, probably not until early next week. I posted on the previous page that I needed a couple of days off from the forum and because this is involving major revisions and my work on the other maps I needed more time. After this update we should be back to more regular updates.

[seamusk]

7/8/08 Map/Gameplay Update.

Here is a basic outline of the changes. Once I get the current poll taken down I'll put a new one up for a couple of the gameplay options. I tentatively restored the original gameplay which in my opinion is not as good but addresses the one concern that has been raised and stomped on. The basic changes are this:

• Goalies can either attack 1 or 2 fullbacks depending on position.
• Fullbacks cannot attack each other.
• There is now a bonus for holding a "line" of +1.

All 3 of the above will also go up for a vote. Now, there are other options that have been out there and which might still get a play. Here are some of them and where we are at with them.

• Reduce the Goalies autodeploy. This I won't employ because it creates the problem that folks are concerned about. It makes it more difficult for a player to break a grip on the fullbacks. I can explain but not in this post...

• remove the players bonuses to something more staggered.(e.g. 0 for full backs +1 for half backs +2 for mids + 3 for half forwards + 4 for forwards.) I'll put this one to a vote. I'm not crazy about it because I feel it puts too much value on controlling a certain position player. But I'm open to it.
• Decrease the "minimum reinforcements" to 1 (minimum level). This doesn't hurt or help so I'm open to it. WIth the changed attack patterns I feel this might help more than hurt though. So I'd like to add it but a vote will be held.
• increase the neutrals on Fullbacks so that the first turn player has less chance of running over all of them. If I raise them I will raise to 2 but will put up to a vote.

Graphically, I have simplified things. I hope that this direction works better for folks. I prefer less detailed players. And yes, there are 4 versions of Patrick on purpose. Just like on a hurling pitch.

Version 3.0[/n] - posted July 8, 2008

Click image to enlarge.

[ZeakCytho]

None of the concerns DiM brought up are addressed in this new version. It's still possible to take all fullbacks on the first turn in a 1v1, and that gives even more of a bonus now because of your +1/line bonus.

[seamusk]

None of the concerns DiM brought up are addressed in this new version. It's still possible to take all fullbacks on the first turn in a 1v1, and that gives even more of a bonus now because of your +1/line bonus.

They are addressed. Consider the starting position shown. There is no way for red or green to take all 3 fullbacks on turn 1. The fullback bonus is actually more difficult to get than the half-back bonus. Look at the attack lines closely and please read the gameplay changes I made again. Plus the ones that are on the table.

[oaktown]

Poll Results:

What do you think of the proposed hurling sport map?

I like it and I think it will appeal to sports fans on the site. Continue with it...: 24 votes, 40%

I like it but am concerned about the map's broader appeal: 8 votes, 13%

I don't like it but I still feel it will appeal to folks: 2 votes, 3%

I don't like it and I don't think it will have appeal. Stop working on it...: 26 votes, 43%

Total votes : 60

Poll removed at the mapmaker's request.

[snapdoodle]

you really need to integrate your instructions and title into the map better. It's better than it was before in % of real estate taken but it's still about a 3rd of the image.

[seamusk]

you really need to integrate your instructions and title into the map better. It's better than it was before in % of real estate taken but it's still about a 3rd of the image.

I honestly wasn't too concerned with that for this update. As you can see there is a lot of wasted space right now that can be eliminated...

[wcaclimbing]

It looks quite a bit better graphically, but the bonus box just got 10x more confusing for me
Its just too many lines of text and too much information all at once. By the time I read to the bottom of the rules, I forget what was listed at the top.

Could you try breaking that box into sections? like, one part for all the bonuses, one part for what attacks what, one part for what FF FB and all those mean. Then I wouldn't have to read the entire thing to find what I'm looking for. I'd just skip right to the "bonuses" section to see how many armies I will be getting.

[seamusk]

It looks quite a bit better graphically, but the bonus box just got 10x more confusing for me
Its just too many lines of text and too much information all at once. By the time I read to the bottom of the rules, I forget what was listed at the top.

Could you try breaking that box into sections? like, one part for all the bonuses, one part for what attacks what, one part for what FF FB and all those mean. Then I wouldn't have to read the entire thing to find what I'm looking for. I'd just skip right to the "bonuses" section to see how many armies I will be getting.

yes, this is easily doable.

[yeti_c]

I definitely don't like the different coloured sticks idea... but it is a step forward...
I think part of the problem is that Red is a stick colour and a team colour... (And is pretty close to brown)

Your legend font is tiny.

The different attack routes sound look like a good idea... but do they create too many bottle necks?

Your 3 point score zones are different colours.

I dislike the use of red as the scoring zone - as that is a team colour too.

I think the orange (brown) part of the irish flag is too desaturated.

To reduce clutter
Instead of "Full Forwards" -> Consider "Forwards"
Instead of "Full Backs" -> Consider "Backs"

Naming the players is a good step -> Although - I'm not sure about the 4 patricks you have?! (And 2 rons)

The goalies on blue side are upside down (ABCD) -> Consider keeping them consistend (I know why you have done it though)

I've never seen a hurling pitch... does it have all these lines on it?

C.

[seamusk]

I dislike the use of red as the scoring zone - as that is a team colour too.

I think the orange (brown) part of the irish flag is too desaturated.

ok. I have conflicting opinions on this but I'll un-desaturate some. I doubt that is a word.

To reduce clutter
Instead of "Full Forwards" -> Consider "Forwards"
Instead of "Full Backs" -> Consider "Backs"

yeah. Does it change much though? Maybe a little I guess...

Naming the players is a good step -> Although - I'm not sure about the 4 patricks you have?! (And 2 rons)

Oops. Missed the two Rons. The 4 Patricks are all unique (Pat, Patrick, Paddy, Padraig). Very common Irish name. Yell Pat on a hurling pitch and lots of heads turn! But it need not be that way on this site.

The goalies on blue side are upside down (ABCD) -> Consider keeping them consistend (I know why you have done it though)

Everything is from goalie perspective. So left and right rotate as do ABCD. THough I need not rotate the ABCD.

I've never seen a hurling pitch... does it have all these lines on it?

I used a hurling pitch diagram to make the map.

Thanks for the comments. All very good!

[mibi]

Your going to have some serious colorblindness issues, particularly red and green, but others as well. You need to change the brightness and contrast on many elements.

this is just desaturated

Click image to enlarge.

here is more in depth info
http://www.colorjack.com/labs/colormatrix/

[seamusk]

mibi - please us bigimg tags.

Yeah, I haven't run a colorblind test on this map. I'm not too worried about it. If the look and feel is right there are several ways to fix the colorblind issues. Thanks for pointing that out.

[MrBenn]

What do you think of the proposed hurling sport map?
I like it and I think it will appeal to sports fans on the site. Continue with it...: 24 votes, 40%
I like it but am concerned about the map's broader appeal: 8 votes, 13%
I don't like it but I still feel it will appeal to folks: 2 votes, 3%
I don't like it and I don't think it will have appeal. Stop working on it...: 26 votes, 43%Total votes : 60

Are you going to take any notice of the poll you set up, or just steamroller through regardless of any concerns?

[yeti_c]

Seamusk - you missed a few of my comments.

However - You can keep the Patricks - as a nod to humour on the map.

C.

[oaktown]

Yeah, I haven't run a colorblind test on this map.

It took me a second look to see the names, then a third look to see the silhouettes of the players. Someof the names I can't make out at all.

The new map is different and I don't have the instant negative reaction that I had to the old look, but I'm not sure that it's significantly better - my biggest concern is with how the map plays, which hasn't changed.

By making it larger it is easier to sort out what is what, but there's so much dead space - especially around the legend - that i wonder if it is necessary to go quite this big. Like I've said in the extended-size map discussions, just because a map can be really big doesn't mean it needs to be really big.

[seamusk]

Yeah, I haven't run a colorblind test on this map.

The new map is different and I don't have the instant negative reaction that I had to the old look, but I'm not sure that it's significantly better - my biggest concern is with how the map plays, which hasn't changed.

The gameplay has changed.

By making it larger it is easier to sort out what is what, but there's so much dead space - especially around the legend - that i wonder if it is necessary to go quite this big. Like I've said in the extended-size map discussions, just because a map can be really big doesn't mean it needs to be really big.

This is the only map I tried starting out small but it doesn't work for me. Graphic design wise I've always started out big and shrunk and not the opposite. The map itself actually is smaller and as noted the legend can easily be shrunk. Anyhow, most of the appearance of it being larger is just because I went from the 600 pixel limit to the 800 pixel limit for design purposes.

[seamusk]

What do you think of the proposed hurling sport map?
I like it and I think it will appeal to sports fans on the site. Continue with it...: 24 votes, 40%
I like it but am concerned about the map's broader appeal: 8 votes, 13%
I don't like it but I still feel it will appeal to folks: 2 votes, 3%
I don't like it and I don't think it will have appeal. Stop working on it...: 26 votes, 43%Total votes : 60

Are you going to take any notice of the poll you set up, or just steamroller through regardless of any concerns?

MrBenn - The poll was 3 to 1 in favor except for about 10 hours of total when Mibi and DiM were spamming the thread.

[seamusk]

Seamusk - you missed a few of my comments.

However - You can keep the Patricks - as a nod to humour on the map.

C.

I think you are right. But I could have sworn I wrote a paragraph on the red colors agreeing on changing them. I need coffee but will figure this out...

[MrBenn]

What do you think of the proposed hurling sport map?
I like it and I think it will appeal to sports fans on the site. Continue with it...: 24 votes, 40%
I like it but am concerned about the map's broader appeal: 8 votes, 13%
I don't like it but I still feel it will appeal to folks: 2 votes, 3%
I don't like it and I don't think it will have appeal. Stop working on it...: 26 votes, 43%Total votes : 60

Are you going to take any notice of the poll you set up, or just steamroller through regardless of any concerns?

MrBenn - The poll was 3 to 1 in favor except for about 10 hours of total when Mibi and DiM were spamming the thread.

In the same way that Hillary Clinton was leading the candidate race until Barack Obama won it?
The point of voting is to get a consensus of opinion. If you're going to ignore all the people who think differently from you, don't bother with a poll and run things Mugabe style.

[seamusk]

What do you think of the proposed hurling sport map?
I like it and I think it will appeal to sports fans on the site. Continue with it...: 24 votes, 40%
I like it but am concerned about the map's broader appeal: 8 votes, 13%
I don't like it but I still feel it will appeal to folks: 2 votes, 3%
I don't like it and I don't think it will have appeal. Stop working on it...: 26 votes, 43%Total votes : 60

Are you going to take any notice of the poll you set up, or just steamroller through regardless of any concerns?

MrBenn - The poll was 3 to 1 in favor except for about 10 hours of total when Mibi and DiM were spamming the thread.

In the same way that Hillary Clinton was leading the candidate race until Barack Obama won it?
The point of voting is to get a consensus of opinion. If you're going to ignore all the people who think differently from you, don't bother with a poll and run things Mugabe style.

That's right. seamusk = mugabe. bring it elsewhere mate if you are gonna act like that.

[oaktown]

If you're going to ignore all the people who think differently from you, don't bother with a poll and run things Mugabe style.

As we all are, seamusk is free to roll on regardless of the poll results. It's not impossible that he will spruce this map up and make believers out of at least some of us.

But just to add some context, I've seen dozens of polls like this in the past 18 months in the Foundry, and it is very rare to see a map receive less than 50% support. Even the most ridiculous, sperm-donation-room, Atlanta-zoo-copying, Russian roulette maps get a bunch of "I love it" votes simply because a lot of folks around here think that any and every map idea should be made regardless of the fact that the map is nothing more than a picture of a pencil. This poll doesn't mean the map can't improve, but it does suggest that are a lot of doubters who will need to be convinced.

[Androidz]

I like it and I think it will appeal to sports fans on the site. Continue with it...: 24 votes, 40%

I like it but am concerned about the map's broader appeal: 8 votes, 13%


40% + 13%: 53%?? Isint that over 50%??? Both is postive and were working on the gameplay all the time, so be paient. (sorry for my english:D)