Too many Items Mafia (4/14) Endgame: I Confess

[Yomiel]

We couldn't choose-we had to give it up. All we got to pick was who gave theirs up. We couldn't both keep them, and we couldn't choose who it got passed on to. And I myself said that the item was essentially useless because of the restrictions. On top of my role, it kind of hampered my enjoyment. I kind of wish I had been Mafia.@_@ But I'm not. And I've been to inactive to plot much of anything these past few days. Still not on my normal computer, and it's thrown me off.

I'm casting my suspicion on hippo, who is clearly trying to twist facts for some reason. I don't see how my item or it's disappearance could be a red herring.

[thehippo8]

We couldn't choose-we had to give it up. All we got to pick was who gave theirs up. We couldn't both keep them, and we couldn't choose who it got passed on to. And I myself said that the item was essentially useless because of the restrictions. On top of my role, it kind of hampered my enjoyment. I kind of wish I had been Mafia.@_@ But I'm not. And I've been to inactive to plot much of anything these past few days. Still not on my normal computer, and it's thrown me off.

I'm casting my suspicion on hippo, who is clearly trying to twist facts for some reason. I don't see how my item or it's disappearance could be a red herring.

Don't misunderstand me Yomiel. I'm pointing out that Spiesr was reading far too much into what you were saying. Thanks for clearing it up though as the loss of the walkie-talkie was clearly separate from the mod's story. My point is simply that nothing was to be gained from continually asking you about walkie-talkies or suggesting you are acting scummy. You clearly are not.

[vodean]

honestly, i dont see too much in the spiesr case... the main points are that he used WIFOM that may be invalid, and he tried to get others to discuss... doesn't seem to scummy to me. in fact, to push so hard against him seems scummier than anything. unvote vote hippo

[zimmah]

honestly, i dont see too much in the spiesr case... the main points are that he used WIFOM that may be invalid, and he tried to get others to discuss... doesn't seem to scummy to me. in fact, to push so hard against him seems scummier than anything. unvote vote hippo

i don't see what hippo did wrong, care to explain?

i agree with him that Yomiel doesn't look scummy to me, he seems to be honest. I think your own wifom alternative is pretty weird.

i don't know if you're scummy or not, but you have very weird theories.

If we don't get any better leads, that could probably be used against you.

[jonty125]

My interpretation of the walkie talkie deal. Based on Yomiel's claim it appears that: Yomiel and Nebuchadnezzar both had a walkie talkie item. This item allowed them some form of limited communication. (From the sound of it, it seems as if their messages had to be sent through the mod.) Yomiel is claiming a lot of restrictions on what you could say with it, which in my opinion severely hamper the potential usefulness. Additionally, he says that the owners of these items could choose to voluntarily give up their item, passing it to another player. (Yomiel, if you gave up the walkie talkie could you choose you got it next, or was it "random.")
One thing to keep in mind about all of this, is that this claim itself doesn't clear Yomiel as being town. There isn't any reason why an owner of this pseudo mason item couldn't be scum.

This is a rather heavy scum tell in my book. In the one breath Spiesr says that Yomiel is likely town or a mason (third party) yet in the next breath ... let's lynch him. This is sheeping at its worst.

I can't see where spiesr says they're likely to be town or mason.

[Epitaph1]

I don't think that flushing out the events surrounding Yomiel and his walkie-talkie are a red herring at all. Even though we probably won't get a robber/mafia to come forward or the mod to clarify what exactly happened, I think it's good to get on the record what we can compare it to events in subsequent nights.

Spiesr's next comment is fluff. Heis final comment today thus far is ...

My interpretation of the walkie talkie deal. Based on Yomiel's claim it appears that: Yomiel and Nebuchadnezzar both had a walkie talkie item. This item allowed them some form of limited communication. (From the sound of it, it seems as if their messages had to be sent through the mod.) Yomiel is claiming a lot of restrictions on what you could say with it, which in my opinion severely hamper the potential usefulness. Additionally, he says that the owners of these items could choose to voluntarily give up their item, passing it to another player. (Yomiel, if you gave up the walkie talkie could you choose you got it next, or was it "random.")
One thing to keep in mind about all of this, is that this claim itself doesn't clear Yomiel as being town. There isn't any reason why an owner of this pseudo mason item couldn't be scum.

This is a rather heavy scum tell in my book. In the one breath Spiesr says that Yomiel is likely town or a mason (third party) yet in the next breath ... let's lynch him. This is sheeping at its worst.

This is quite a jump on hippo's part. I had to re-read spiesr's quote 4 times to figure how hippo read this as "yomiel is likely town or mason, now let's lynch him." I interpreted spiesr's comment to be trying to make sense of the Yomiel situation while keeping open the possibility that he could be anti-town.

While I'm leaning towards yomiel being town, it's too early to clear him as 100% town. It would be interesting if Neb and Yomiel's walkie-talkies reappear in new hands, but it's merely speculation as to what happens to the items.

fp'd by jonty

[spiesr]

Color is not alignment, nothing of use is shown in lynch scenes.

Thanks for finding that. I was wondering myself if the scenes were accurate or not, but I couldn't find anything that said either way.

Only problem with this logic is that the flavour would be the robber and the murderer are both scum (kind of logical given their descriptions) so rather a waste of time t expect one to squeal on the other!

I would say that reaching that conclusion based on what there was there is not a certainty. It would have been possible for the two to have been both scum, but the "information" presented doesn't portray that for sure. Not that it matters anymore.

Spiesr's next comment is fluff. Heis final comment today thus far is ...

My interpretation of the walkie talkie deal. Based on Yomiel's claim it appears that: Yomiel and Nebuchadnezzar both had a walkie talkie item. This item allowed them some form of limited communication. (From the sound of it, it seems as if their messages had to be sent through the mod.) Yomiel is claiming a lot of restrictions on what you could say with it, which in my opinion severely hamper the potential usefulness. Additionally, he says that the owners of these items could choose to voluntarily give up their item, passing it to another player. (Yomiel, if you gave up the walkie talkie could you choose you got it next, or was it "random.")
One thing to keep in mind about all of this, is that this claim itself doesn't clear Yomiel as being town. There isn't any reason why an owner of this pseudo mason item couldn't be scum.

This is a rather heavy scum tell in my book. In the one breath Spiesr says that Yomiel is likely town or a mason (third party) yet in the next breath ... let's lynch him. This is sheeping at its worst.

First of all "mason" does not mean third party. Mason is an ability that can be assigned to a player of any alignment, allowing them to communicate with another player. The way Yomiel described his item allows to to presumably work the same for scum as it does for town. (Especially since it explicitly moves around.) That said, I was not trying to suggest that we lynch Yomiel today, just pointing out (so nobody forgets) that what Yomiel has claimed about his item does not tell us anything about his alignment. He can be scum, that doesn't mean he is anymore likely to be so than anybody else, but not less likely either.

You may remember that spiesr said this ...

funny how you keep saying i'm silencing you from your case, yet you never presented any in the first place. and besides, let's assume you DID have a (solid) case on anyone, wouldn't i just make it worse for both myself ánd whoever i'm 'protecting' if i made such a fuzz about you? think about it, do i look that stupid to you?

Zimmah is basically making a strawman argument here. I don't believe that Pershy, or anyone else, ever really indicated that he thought Zimmah was trying to tie him up by making a case on him so he couldn't make a case a against a scum mat or something.

i believe this is one of the best day 1 cases i have ever seen in fact. it's way up there at least, tell me if i'm wrong.

This is interesting. It seems to me like you are tying to win support for your case by simply saying it is awesome, and in my opinion you aren't really able to back this claim up at all. This case has non-trivial flaws that pershy has pointed out, and which you seem to be completely missing the point of.

Isn't Spiesr now doing exactly what he was sayign Zimmah shouldn't be doing?

Can you clarify this point? I don't see what am I doing that is the same as what I said about Zimmah.

And just in case you forgot my day 1 case against Spiesr (which seems to have been ignored) ...

unvote vote spiesr because you were the last one to post

We are currently crawling towards actual discussion. It would be nice if you would join us and contribute in a meaningful way instead of just continuing to make jokes.

Unvote vote spiesr ... jokevote stage is designed to bring out scumminess. Jokevote stage is officially over (for me anyway). That was one of the scummiest comments I've seen in a long time. Defensive, unnecessary, finger-pointy, pious, rediculous, smarmy, high-flalutent, finger-pointing, obfuscatory, all round scummy. The Vodean and Ymiel stuff is fluff but your response is scum on the nose. You want discussion? Discuss!

I kinda thought that this was a joke on Day 1.Can you please explain it so I can understand what you were getting at?

[zimmah]

mason is usually town. mafia can communicate anyway.

[vodean]

mason is usually town. mafia can communicate anyway.

its not so much that masons are town, but since mafia are almost ALWAYS masoned, they dont get counted. it is possible that the walkies put some kind of restriction on their communications...

[spiesr]

mason is usually town. mafia can communicate anyway.

A mafia member can be a mason with a town member.

[pershy]

My personal take is that as I know that Neb had a walkie talkie and he was VT, I think Yomiel is also a VT. I'm glad I waited before I said anything otherwise I would have been suspicious of anyone going on about a walkie talkie after I had mentioned it. But when Yomiel mentioned that he'd had a walkie talkie it immediately made me think he was town as I think mafia would have other items more characteristic of being mafia - guns and stuff. This is just a theory of course, they could have anything and be masoned with town. We'll see.

I liked Vodean's WIFOM theory but it raised my suspicion a bit and subsequent posts too (defending spiesr? voting hippo?)
It's just that Spiesr also seemed a bit suspicious to me but nothing I can really put my finger on so I'll just wait it out before I start majorly fossing or voting.
Hippo's argument seemed quite well thought out to me - or was it just a dog and pony show?
I would like to keep my eye on Epi and Daz too. Remember I had mentioned them on D1? Epi's recent post clears him a bit in my eyes though.
Still very much in the dark.

[Yomiel]

Is it still Day? No one has posted anything in two days, so I'd kind of thought it was Night.>_>

[spiesr]

Is it still Day? No one has posted anything in two days, so I'd kind of thought it was Night.>_>

It is still Day, as you can easily see from the thread title or the absence of a post indicating the end of the day. And it will presumably remain day until we reach a lynch or the deadline expires on Wednesday. Currently things have stalled. We don't have much for solid leads and (I at least) don't know how we should proceed. Do you have any suggestions to get us back on track?

[Yomiel]

Let's just kill Vodean. It's what my instincts tell me, but it's not based on anything.

[/]

Let's just kill Vodean. It's what my instincts tell me, but it's not based on anything.

It's the right thing to do 50+% of the time
Let me see if I can cobble a case out of something before we randomly lynch though, sorry I kind of forgot, I've been busy...

[thehippo8]

@ Spiesr

No problem in finding mod's quote.

You may be right, Yomiel may be scum, but I'd find that highly unlikely. I find him chatty but not suspicious.

As to the Zimmah comment, I saw your references to Yomiel in the same vein but no-one cares so why should I?

As to the Happyfeet point, I thought he was contributing. I din't think the psudo-Fos was appropriate. But again, no-one else cares so why should I.

You will note that I didn't vote or even Fos you (today), I just brought a case to see what you'd say.

@ everyone ... the apathy in this game has reached an all time high. Must be Summer holiday's for you all?

fastposted by / ... thank goodness! There is life our there! & lol @ Yomiel re Vodean.

[/]

We seem to be missing shield, dazza and IB, the later likely because of a PR...
Hm, upon reading back, actually I do think vodean is acting scummy.

does anyone have any objections for the lynch? / has voiced some, but still seems pro. if im gonna be hammering, i dont want to come under a ton of scrutiny unless people are actually in support. lets be sure before we do this.

this seems odd, why is it so important to not come under scrutiny? The only ones who NEED to look town under all circumstances are scum. it seems like trying to play off the blame on someone else.

honestly, i dont see too much in the spiesr case... the main points are that he used WIFOM that may be invalid, and he tried to get others to discuss... doesn't seem to scummy to me. in fact, to push so hard against him seems scummier than anything. unvote vote hippo

And this, OMGUSing for spiesr upon the hippo's case, could be buddying tactic, or something more, why do you object to it so strongly?

With all that happened yesterday concerning vode, we could probably devise some further info from this case no matter how it turns out.
Vote vode

[Yomiel]

Can someone post a vote tally?

[pershy]

Finally some activity. I thought I was gonna have to have a conversation with myself.
At work so can't post much but I am all for voting Vodean too. I have my suspicions.


Vote Vodean

[jonty125]

vote vodean for the weak case on hippo and as / pointed out, the fear of been scrutinised for hammering on D1.

[crazymilkshake5]

Vote Count

Hippo-Vodean
Vodean-/, pershy, ???, Yomiel, zim-L-2

Deadline is July 11th. No set time, whenever i feel like it.

[Epitaph1]

Vote Count

Hippo-Vodean
Vodean-/, pershy, jonty, ???-L3

Deadline is July 11th. No set time, whenever i feel like it.

That's interesting, I don't remember a player named ??? in this game (that's a joke)

Vodeon, you best claim now if we are going to start any cases on anyone else before the deadline.

[Yomiel]

Vote: Vodean

[vodean]

We seem to be missing shield, dazza and IB, the later likely because of a PR...
Hm, upon reading back, actually I do think vodean is acting scummy.

does anyone have any objections for the lynch? / has voiced some, but still seems pro. if im gonna be hammering, i dont want to come under a ton of scrutiny unless people are actually in support. lets be sure before we do this.

this seems odd, why is it so important to not come under scrutiny? The only ones who NEED to look town under all circumstances are scum. it seems like trying to play off the blame on someone else.

honestly, i dont see too much in the spiesr case... the main points are that he used WIFOM that may be invalid, and he tried to get others to discuss... doesn't seem to scummy to me. in fact, to push so hard against him seems scummier than anything. unvote vote hippo

And this, OMGUSing for spiesr upon the hippo's case, could be buddying tactic, or something more, why do you object to it so strongly?

With all that happened yesterday concerning vode, we could probably devise some further info from this case no matter how it turns out.
Vote vode

ok... hmmm... no comments on the bandwagon on me without reason that we just saw?
in any case, this seems to be about the sum of the case against me. and i've gotta say. its pretty weak.

so i dont want to come under scrutiny... who does? and clearly it didnt work. i knew at the time it wouldnt.but i didnt think i would get lynched over it.
because really, if you look at hippos case against spiesr, it was crap at best. but whatever. it is clearly more scummy to present a case against someone who has presented an empty case than to present an empty case.
as for my meta, im a very popular D1 and 2 lynch, and im not surprised that there is a bandwagon against me, but it is starting to piss me off a little . also, since NCIS was the role i got immediately before this one, and i was scum in NCIS, that means i MUST be town in this one. in any case, im the town one-shot reviver. my item is some herbs and spices, and at any point in the game i can revive one person. but since i use herbal medicine, there is only a 50-50 chance of success.

[thehippo8]

Vote: Vodean

After the loss of two townies already, you'd think you'd at least wait for Vodean to respond before you put him at L-1!!! But no, you have mercilessly dangled him on the precipice. Worse, you do so without any explanation whatsoever. Now that Vodean has responded I would have expected you to back-peddle very quickly and remove your vote. IFive hours has elapsed and you are usually so quick to respond to anything. Fos Yomiel!

Frankly, even though it is Day 2, I'm inclined to shelve Vodean for tomorrow. There are multiple ways to check on whether he's telling the truth at night so I suggest we move on. Unless you are trying to kill for killing's sake then we should - at the very minimum - discuss this.

Having a look back, everyone except SG7 and Dazza have posted day two. Dazzah was silent in another game so I anticipate there's an excuse there? But I don't know why SG7 is silent. Maybe we should be applying pressure or ask the mod for replacements?

ANyway, here's a list of posts in day two (in the order they appear on the first page):

Code: Select all

Spiesr - 7
Zimmah 5
Yomiel - 8
IB - 2
Jonty - 4
Vodean - 6
Epitaph - 6
Pershy - 3
/ - 3
thshippo - 3

This is just post numbers, not quality. Come on everyone let's start chatting!