Wisconsin State Employees & Budget Cuts

[Phatscotty]

Guess what the upside to all of this is? Many of the union workers who are democrats already are active in their unions and politics. The up comes from all the union members who are conservative or independent or just don't care about politics, who have now awoken. They have a reason to get with the program and understand what is and has been going on.

We shall overcome

[Woodruff]

If the members really care so much about having their money spent like that, then they should reconsider their membership. If your job forces you to be part of a union, get a new job. Of course finding a job is easier said than done, but thats an argument made by conservatives for those pesky lazy poor people.

There's a huge difference between thinking you deserve to be paid more and having your money taken by a group that you don't agree with simply because you work there. Those unions don't actually pay you, you pay them. Employers pay you, you don't pay them.

You say that the unions don't pay you, and that's mostly true. Yet the unions DO have a hand in how much you are paid, as well as your benefits. So to pretend that the unions are just taking your money and giving you nothing in return is really...well, not very smart.

[Phatscotty]

If the members really care so much about having their money spent like that, then they should reconsider their membership. If your job forces you to be part of a union, get a new job. Of course finding a job is easier said than done, but thats an argument made by conservatives for those pesky lazy poor people.

There's a huge difference between thinking you deserve to be paid more and having your money taken by a group that you don't agree with simply because you work there. Those unions don't actually pay you, you pay them. Employers pay you, you don't pay them.

You say that the unions don't pay you, and that's mostly true. Yet the unions DO have a hand in how much you are paid, as well as your benefits. So to pretend that the unions are just taking your money and giving you nothing in return is really...well, not very smart.

yeah but the extra money made, is that more than the union dues you gotta pay?

[Phatscotty]

Campaign contributions to Gov. Scott Walker, by sector 2010 election http://host.madison.com/html_08620ac2-4 ... 002e0.html

#1 retired people?

Top contributors to Gov. Scott Walker, 2010 election http://host.madison.com/html_9611473e-4 ... 002e0.html

I was hoping symm would find all this for me. Oh well next time it's your turn Symm.

[PopeBenXVI]

You will have to show me evidence of even a single school district that passes out condoms to 8 year olds. Here, not even high schoolers get them in school.

Your school district must not be "progressive" enough then but it sounds like they give you a 'real education" as opposed to those pesky home schoolers who keep winning the national spelling bees.

[PopeBenXVI]

If the members really care so much about having their money spent like that, then they should reconsider their membership. If your job forces you to be part of a union, get a new job. Of course finding a job is easier said than done, but thats an argument made by conservatives for those pesky lazy poor people.

Hahahahaha......Ok I'll just go get a new job. I did not realize it would be that easy to do right now. Well, like you hint at, it may not be really hard to find a job but to find one that pays decent, good luck

[Phatscotty]

If the members really care so much about having their money spent like that, then they should reconsider their membership. If your job forces you to be part of a union, get a new job. Of course finding a job is easier said than done, but thats an argument made by conservatives for those pesky lazy poor people.

Hahahahaha......Ok I'll just go get a new job. I did not realize it would be that easy to do right now.

[PopeBenXVI]

it looks like $1 out of $5 campaign dollars for the missing 14 Dems comes from Public sector unions. For some of them it's over half. I am sure that has nothing to do with all this. It's all about workers "rights" even though they still would have more bargaining power than all federal employees under Obama as well as most other states public unions.

[Phatscotty]

it looks like $1 out of $5 campaign dollars for the missing 14 Dems comes from Public sector unions. For some of them it's over half. I am sure that has nothing to do with all this. It's all about workers "rights" even though they still would have more bargaining power than all federal employees under Obama as well as most other states public unions.

the real question is who are the fleebaggers receiving all their financial support from? It's illegal for them to take money outside of their state.

[PLAYER57832]

Oh, unions donate to democrats? Thanks for that. I didn't know that.

But you can understand why a lot of independents and conservatives in those unions who pay those dues have a problem right?

That's what happens in groups. Not everyone always gets what they want.

sure, but it can, and it is, being fixed. More people can now get what they want.

In WI? Not according to polls. Of course, the right wing has a long history of claiming it is in the majority when it isn't.

[Phatscotty]

Oh, unions donate to democrats? Thanks for that. I didn't know that.

But you can understand why a lot of independents and conservatives in those unions who pay those dues have a problem right?

That's what happens in groups. Not everyone always gets what they want.

sure, but it can, and it is, being fixed. More people can now get what they want.

In WI? Not according to polls. Of course, the right wing has a long history of claiming it is in the majority when it isn't.

polls from people about what they think might happen is not the same thing as what will happen.

P.S. WI Republicans have a hardcore majority. Not "claiming" common knowledge

[PLAYER57832]

polls from people about what they think might happen is not the same thing as what will happen.

P.S. WI Republicans have a hardcore majority. Not "claiming" common knowledge

Having won a majority in the last election does not mean the majority agree with every action that party decides to implement.

[GreecePwns]

If the members really care so much about having their money spent like that, then they should reconsider their membership. If your job forces you to be part of a union, get a new job. Of course finding a job is easier said than done, but thats an argument made by conservatives for those pesky lazy poor people.

Hahahahaha......Ok I'll just go get a new job. I did not realize it would be that easy to do right now.

It's the same argument conservatives used against welfare programs. The poor people are too lazy and aren't working hard enough to find a job is what is always said. If that argument can be made, so can mine. Of course it's an absurd one that really can't be made and I said that right there but go ahead and run with it.

The union doesn't just take your money and give you nothing. Let's stop pretending that that is the case. Because the corporation that gives to Republicans doesn't pay you either. You pay them and get a product or service in return. The union works the same way in terms of benefits and greater pay.

[Phatscotty]

polls from people about what they think might happen is not the same thing as what will happen.

P.S. WI Republicans have a hardcore majority. Not "claiming" common knowledge

Having won a majority in the last election does not mean the majority agree with every action that party decides to implement.

Sure. they can change it democratically in 2012 election. All Walker is doing is exactly what he said he would do in his campaign.

The people have decided. Power to the people.

[Juan_Bottom]

I will actually side with Juan on this topic. Their are WAY too many things that are labeled as a "felony" and the main purpose of it in my book is to take away our gun rights as individuals. Whatever your belief on the reason for so many little things being a felony is less important but it takes away too many of our rights any way you look at it.

Win.

Juan - your definition of right does not apply to any of the rights that I think we have in the US. For example, arguably we have the right to life, but that can be taken away by anyone including the government (whether directly or indirectly).

I think maybe what you mean is that a right is something guaranteed in the Constitution. But I don't want to put words in your mouth, especially since collective bargaining is not a right guaranteed by the Constitution. If Congress repealed the National Labor Relations Act, there would be no more unions.

I believe in rights in both senses, but am referring to the Constitutional one. I don't have the right to vote if the government has the authority to take it away. In that sense I only have the privilege to vote.
I've heard a thousand arguments that the right to collectively petition the government can blanket your right to Unionize against or for it. It seems like a solid argument.

[PLAYER57832]

polls from people about what they think might happen is not the same thing as what will happen.

P.S. WI Republicans have a hardcore majority. Not "claiming" common knowledge

Having won a majority in the last election does not mean the majority agree with every action that party decides to implement.

Sure. they can change it democratically in 2012 election. All Walker is doing is exactly what he said he would do in his campaign.

The people have decided. Power to the people.

No, voting someone into office does not mean you suddenly give up your right to a voice and have installed a dictator. No elected leader responds 100%, they cannot please everyone. However, when those in office step too far outside their bounds, then you see protests and action such as is happening right now in WI.

And.. you don't live in WI.

[Woodruff]

If the members really care so much about having their money spent like that, then they should reconsider their membership. If your job forces you to be part of a union, get a new job. Of course finding a job is easier said than done, but thats an argument made by conservatives for those pesky lazy poor people.

There's a huge difference between thinking you deserve to be paid more and having your money taken by a group that you don't agree with simply because you work there. Those unions don't actually pay you, you pay them. Employers pay you, you don't pay them.

You say that the unions don't pay you, and that's mostly true. Yet the unions DO have a hand in how much you are paid, as well as your benefits. So to pretend that the unions are just taking your money and giving you nothing in return is really...well, not very smart.

yeah but the extra money made, is that more than the union dues you gotta pay?

Without question. Union dues, at least in my experience with teacher's unions (my only experience, admittedly), are not large at all.

[Woodruff]

polls from people about what they think might happen is not the same thing as what will happen.

P.S. WI Republicans have a hardcore majority. Not "claiming" common knowledge

Having won a majority in the last election does not mean the majority agree with every action that party decides to implement.

Sure. they can change it democratically in 2012 election. All Walker is doing is exactly what he said he would do in his campaign.
The people have decided. Power to the people.

I don't seem to recall you having this perspective regarding Obamacare. Why is that, Phatscotty?

[Phatscotty]

polls from people about what they think might happen is not the same thing as what will happen.

P.S. WI Republicans have a hardcore majority. Not "claiming" common knowledge

Having won a majority in the last election does not mean the majority agree with every action that party decides to implement.

Sure. they can change it democratically in 2012 election. All Walker is doing is exactly what he said he would do in his campaign.

The people have decided. Power to the people.

No, voting someone into office does not mean you suddenly give up your right to a voice and have installed a dictator.

Install a dictator? Doesn't that totally ignore the whole "2012 election" thingy?

[PopeBenXVI]

That was classic!!! I just got a call from aflcio taking a poll. (I asked him who he was with) They gave me their 1 minute lecture and then asked if they could "mark me down" that I agreed Government officials in Wisconsin needed to look out for the worker. What an over generalized question leading into a vary specific answer. Instead of answering their ridiculous question I said "who is looking out for the taxpayers?" He then said excuse me? I then asked the question a second time and then the Union drown hung up! I wonder if he "marked me down" as opposing for their survey.

[PLAYER57832]

Install a dictator? Doesn't that totally ignore the whole "2012 election" thingy?

To quote a famouse Wisconsonian:
"Democracy does not happen for just 1 day".

[PLAYER57832]

That was classic!!! I just got a call from aflcio taking a poll. (I asked him who he was with) They gave me their 1 minute lecture and then asked if they could "mark me down" that I agreed Government officials in Wisconsin needed to look out for the worker. What an over generalized question leading into a vary specific answer. Instead of answering their ridiculous question I said "who is looking out for the taxpayers?" He then said excuse me? I then asked the question a second time and then the Union drown hung up! I wonder if he "marked me down" as opposing for their survey.

Not a respectable poll.

Since I am usually registered as a Democrat and my husband a Republican, we tend to get them from both sides.

Gallup, etc do not use those tactics.

[PopeBenXVI]

That was classic!!! I just got a call from aflcio taking a poll. (I asked him who he was with) They gave me their 1 minute lecture and then asked if they could "mark me down" that I agreed Government officials in Wisconsin needed to look out for the worker. What an over generalized question leading into a vary specific answer. Instead of answering their ridiculous question I said "who is looking out for the taxpayers?" He then said excuse me? I then asked the question a second time and then the Union drown hung up! I wonder if he "marked me down" as opposing for their survey.

Not a respectable poll.

Since I am usually registered as a Democrat and my husband a Republican, we tend to get them from both sides.

Gallup, etc do not use those tactics.

I agree, other polls questions are much more fair. Their union is a disgrace for that phone call I got. The only real difference I can see in gallup etc would be to ask how many in the sampling are public employees. To really know what wisconsin residents without Gov pensions think I would like to see a survey that excludes them in the polling. Just polling the working poor who do not have but pay for others cadillac healthcare plans from the union owned insurance company.....that would be interesting. To my knowledge that poll does not exist but I could be wrong. With 300,000 public employees in a state of 5.5 million people, obviously many want to keep their own benefits.

[Phatscotty]

Install a dictator? Doesn't that totally ignore the whole "2012 election" thingy?

To quote a famouse Wisconsonian:
"Democracy does not happen for just 1 day".

The direction the democracy is going to take is in fact decided in one day.
you really are something

[PLAYER57832]

Install a dictator? Doesn't that totally ignore the whole "2012 election" thingy?

To quote a famouse Wisconsonian:
"Democracy does not happen for just 1 day".

The direction the democracy is going to take is in fact decided in one day.
you really are something

Do a google search, would you, before you claim I don't know what I am talking about next time..

As I stated, it is a saying touted widely in WI -- the state in question here.
And, no democracy is not just something that happens on one day. People CONTINUE to have a voice, even after an election. And, as I stated before, being elected doesn't mean you are suddenly God, to decide whatever you wish. I fully realize that many politicians are under the mistaken impression that this is the case, but it is not.