The War of the Triple Crown

[tkr4lf]

Damn...

I just had to restore my computer to factory defaults. I lost everything on my computer, haha. I'll have to re-download gimp and start over on this thing.....freakin awesome.

[tkr4lf]

Ok, after a long time of not doing anything with this, I decided to start up again. Since I lost everything, I just started over with it, so it's a little bit different.

Here is my new product.



I'm trying to do rivers on this. I remember Natty said to use the free select tool to remove everything down to the sea level, so that it looks natural. How do I do this? I've tried and tried and cannot figure out what to do after I select the area that I want to make the river in. Any help?

Also, first post updated with this version of the map.

[natty dread]

I'm trying to do rivers on this. I remember Natty said to use the free select tool to remove everything down to the sea level, so that it looks natural. How do I do this? I've tried and tried and cannot figure out what to do after I select the area that I want to make the river in. Any help?

I wouldn't necessarily use the free select tool... Firstly, create an empty layer, and draw the rivers with a paintbrush on it, the colour doesn't matter here so you can use white to see it clearly. Pay attention to the width of the river - don't make them too wide, but wide enough that people will see they are impassables. Also, make the rivers taper down on the land end... makes them look more natural. And remember that all rivers should flow to sea - otherwise they don't make sense geologically. You can always add bridges later.

Now, select the alpha of that layer (alpha->selection) and then make that layer non-visible. Now you have the shape of the rivers as a selection...

Then just go through the bonus area layers, where you have the land colours, and clear the selection on each layer by pressing delete.

Mind, that you'll have to redraw the bonus area borders to fit the new land shapes, and erase the territory borders from the rivers.

[tkr4lf]

Ok, here is the map with the mountains redone, rivers added, and the colors of pretty much everything changed.
I'm not sure why the picture is so big. It's 840x800 in GIMP, but when I upload it onto imageshack, it gets displayed as this size.






Thoughts?
Specifically, how are the mountains and rivers?
How are the new colors? I figured some neutral colors were better since I'm not going with traditional bonuses. Different shades of green seemed appropriate.

[Bruceswar]

Rivers look pixelated.

Mountains look like too many. I would make them wider and use less of them. Keep plugging away.

[natty dread]

The rivers look to be of different hue of the ocean...

Also, when you upload to imageshack, you need to select "do not resize" on the upload screen.

[tkr4lf]

Ok, not sure if I fixed the rivers looking pixelated or not. I did fix the river/sea hues not matching up. Redrew my mountains and spaced them a bit further apart, with less of them total. Removed a pointless river that was there just for looks, it didn't look good. Removed the rivers on one of the islands and replaced it with mountains going all the way down for an impassable. Adjusted colors some more. Not sure I'm happy with them.

Any suggestions on the land colors? Do the mountains look better now? How are the rivers? Too wide? Weird looking? Still have pixelation?

Any other comments/suggestions? If this is good, then I guess I will move onto bridges, cities, villages, maybe the legend, etc.

Also, I'm pretty sure I have been checking "do not resize" when I upload the picture, but I'm absolutely positive that I did it this time. It's still showing up a lot bigger than it should. Odd.

[QoH]

P14 is an island with no way to get to it. MB2 has way too much control over all the bonus areas. Maybe for gameplay make it a large killer neutral, or make it connect to less territories. Unless that's the way you want it of course.

[tkr4lf]

P14 is an island with no way to get to it. MB2 has way too much control over all the bonus areas. Maybe for gameplay make it a large killer neutral, or make it connect to less territories. Unless that's the way you want it of course.

There will be a bridge connecting to P14. There will be bridges added in a few places actually. I'm just not quite there yet.

And the deal with the MB's is that they will all be neutral. Basically each one connects to 2 different empires, and they are the only way to get from one empire to another empire. I designed it so that once a player holds an entire empire, he only has to gaurd it from 2 different spots, if he can take and hold the 2 MB's connected to his empire. If he cannot hold the MB's, then he will have to gaurd the empire from 3-4 different places.

I can change around some sea routes and make it to where the connections are even. Make it to where each MB connects to 4 places in the empires and 1 place on the IP. Then people would have to gaurd their empire with 4 spots no matter which empire they get, instead of just on one empire, assuming of course that they cannot hold the MB's. That would make it more even I think.

Thanks for the comments. They're always welcomed.

[natty dread]

My main concern for the map, currently, is that the theme seems too generic...

When you're making a fantasy map like this, that has no basis on any already established fictional world, you'll need some other hook besides the world itself - be it either stunning graphics, or interesting gameplay... currently, you have neither - don't get me wrong, everyone starts somewhere, and your graphical skills will develop with time, but since this is your first map, I'd suggest looking into making the gameplay more interesting and thematically relevant.

Look for inspiration in the AoR maps, or Dawn of Ages, or Feudal... all of those are based on fantasy worlds that are basically made up for the purpose of the map, but they each have an interesting gameplay that supports the theme 100%, which makes them great & unique maps...

You need that extra something to really sell your idea. Something to set the map apart, and make people say "I really want to play this".

[tkr4lf]

My main concern for the map, currently, is that the theme seems too generic...

When you're making a fantasy map like this, that has no basis on any already established fictional world, you'll need some other hook besides the world itself - be it either stunning graphics, or interesting gameplay... currently, you have neither - don't get me wrong, everyone starts somewhere, and your graphical skills will develop with time, but since this is your first map, I'd suggest looking into making the gameplay more interesting and thematically relevant.

Look for inspiration in the AoR maps, or Dawn of Ages, or Feudal... all of those are based on fantasy worlds that are basically made up for the purpose of the map, but they each have an interesting gameplay that supports the theme 100%, which makes them great & unique maps...

You need that extra something to really sell your idea. Something to set the map apart, and make people say "I really want to play this".

Well, I mean as far as gameplay, I thought it was thematically relevant.

I mean the theme is 3 empires united under 1 crown, which then fails. The powers around the different empires (dukes, princes, lords, whatever) take up arms and attempt to install themselves as the new King of the 3 empires.

The way the gameplay would support this is that each player would get a starting city and a set number of randomly dropped non-city, non-village territs. They would then procede to take as many cities and villages as possible, granting them ever more power (bonuses & autodeploys). Eventually, they would take and hold an entire empire, granting them a large increase in power (large bonus). If they are bold, they could try to make a break for the Imperial Palace then, and if they succeed, they will be granted a very large increase in power(very large bonus), as being in the Imperial Palace and controlling an empire would lend some legitimacy to their claim as the new king. If they can control the Imperial Palace and two empires completely for 1 year (1 turn), then the remaining powers would recognize the futility in fighting and swear fealty to their new king (objective victory). If a player deems that trying to take and hold the Imperial Palace is too risky, they could always just conquer all the other powers in the 3 empires (normal victory). I'm also toying around with the idea of a losing condition. If a player holds no cities or villages, they are eliminated. Since an army would need to control at least one city or village to get some food, etc., it makes sense that without one, you starve to death.

All villages, and all cities, except the starting cities, would start neutral. All MB's would start neutral. All of the Imperial Palace island would start neutral.

So it's a mix of conquest style map and random drop map.

I'll admit that my graphics leave much to be desired, but as you said, I'm learning and hopefully will get better with time. But I honestly do think that the gameplay is solid. I'm not sure if others find it to be so, or if they would like to play this map. But I know I would. I know that doesn't mean much, but until I get more input from (many) others then I don't know if the majority of people would find this to be interesting gameplay or not.

So, I guess until I get mor input on that matter, all I can do is to keep working on the graphics part of it. So with that in mind, does it look ok so far? The mountains and rivers are ok? Or do you have any questions about the gameplay? Need clarification on anything? I'm willing to answer whatever and do whatever I need to in order to make this work. I would really like to see this map playable.

[natty dread]

Well, all those gameplay things you mentioned, do not show on the map. How about get those things on the map before you start worrying about the mountains and rivers...

[QoH]

As natty said, game play before graphics. And it might be interesting to throw in some "hold x,y,z for a bonus" or "hold 4 of x for +2" kinds of things on there, like supply forts, food sources, battle fields etc.

[tkr4lf]

Well, all those gameplay things you mentioned, do not show on the map. How about get those things on the map before you start worrying about the mountains and rivers...

Hey, I'm just going by your tutorial for GIMP, following it in order. And mountains are done before the legend, etc. in your tutorial....

No, I wanted to get the impassables on the map first so I can accurately place my cities/villages. As I said, as long as what I have looks ok, then I will start on the cities/villages, palace, perhaps something to graphically represent a military base for the MB's, the legend, etc.

I was under the impression you got the graphics done first, then did gameplay.

[tkr4lf]

I was under the impression you got the graphics done first, then did gameplay.

As natty said, game play before graphics.

Well, I guess I was mistaken then!

Gameplay before graphics. Ok. I guess I will get to work on placing the cities, villages, etc. Gonna have to mess around with that, see what I can draw up, if I can. Time to test out my artisitic skills.

And it might be interesting to throw in some "hold x,y,z for a bonus" or "hold 4 of x for +2" kinds of things on there, like supply forts, food sources, battle fields etc.

As far as this...that's pretty much how I want the city bonus to work. Hold x amount of cities for +x. Each additional city grants you +x. Hold x amount of villages....you get my point. I like the idea of food sources...but I'm not sure where I would fit them. I already have cities and villages to place, and then I want some completely empty territs for random deployment. I'm running out of territs here fast. Let me see what I can work out.

[QoH]

You can always make it bigger

[natty dread]

Well, the icons & other graphics you draw will probably be redone later anyway, so just doodle up something that we can figure out the gameplay from for now... the main thing to do now is to get all the gameplay elements on the map, so that one can see how the gameplay works just by looking at the image. Then you'll have what we call a "working draft" and can be moved down to the drafting room.

[DiM]

make a crude sketch of the map. even in paint. it doesn't really matter as long as it serves the purpose of explaining the gameplay.
once you have a decent gameplay you can start working on the graphics.

one piece of advice. you must have an interesting gameplay and a catching theme all wrapped up in nice graphics.
if you plan a simple classic gameplay with decent graphics then forget about it. that might work for a country or a real region but it won't for you.

[tkr4lf]

You can always make it bigger

You mean like this? haha...this is one I did a while back...it's on pg. 3. I guess I could apply for supersize but I don't really see a reason they would give it to me, since it would just be to add in more gameplay features. I don't know.

Spoiler

[tkr4lf]

one piece of advice. you must have an interesting gameplay and a catching theme all wrapped up in nice graphics.
if you plan a simple classic gameplay with decent graphics then forget about it. that might work for a country or a real region but it won't for you.

Have you read the thread? Or even the posts on the page before this one? The gameplay is far from classic gameplay. It's all explained just a few posts above yours. As far as graphics, they may only be decent. I don't know. I'm trying here, but I'm not so great at this.

make a crude sketch of the map. even in paint. it doesn't really matter as long as it serves the purpose of explaining the gameplay.
once you have a decent gameplay you can start working on the graphics.

I don't want to do anything in paint anymore. Sorry. lol, my first drafts for this map were in paint, and they looked horrible. I can't go back to that now. I'll find a way to represent the gameplay on the map as is.

Well, the icons & other graphics you draw will probably be redone later anyway, so just doodle up something that we can figure out the gameplay from for now... the main thing to do now is to get all the gameplay elements on the map, so that one can see how the gameplay works just by looking at the image. Then you'll have what we call a "working draft" and can be moved down to the drafting room.

Ok. Give me a bit and I'll post an update with the gameplay represented on the map.

[DiM]

one piece of advice. you must have an interesting gameplay and a catching theme all wrapped up in nice graphics.
if you plan a simple classic gameplay with decent graphics then forget about it. that might work for a country or a real region but it won't for you.

Have you read the thread? Or even the posts on the page before this one? The gameplay is far from classic gameplay. It's all explained just a few posts above yours. As far as graphics, they may only be decent. I don't know. I'm trying here, but I'm not so great at this.

i'm sorry, i haven't read all posts in the thread. i rarely/never do. i try to give feedback on as many maps as possible and if i stopped to read the whole threads i wouldn't have time to do it.
i always look at the latest update and start from there.
your first post includes a few updates but says nothing about gameplay so it looked pretty classic judging just from the image.
please take a look at the first post of my map: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 2#p3223782
it includes all versions of the map with detailed information of what each update brought and includes the first description of the map. it really helps people quickly identify what the map is about as well as showing what problems have been addressed so far. also having the version number date and page in the title helps people avoid wasting time to search for things. this is more of a general advice of maintaining a nice and functional thread and avoid situations like this one where one commenter wants to help but doesn't have the time to read the whole thread.

make a crude sketch of the map. even in paint. it doesn't really matter as long as it serves the purpose of explaining the gameplay.
once you have a decent gameplay you can start working on the graphics.

I don't want to do anything in paint anymore. Sorry. lol, my first drafts for this map were in paint, and they looked horrible. I can't go back to that now. I'll find a way to represent the gameplay on the map as is.

i didn't say you have to make it in paint, i said you could even make it in paint. it doesn't really matter how horrible it looks as long as it is functional. once the gameplay sounds attractive and people understand more about it you can start working on better graphics.

however be prepared for a long bumpy road especially seeing you're new at gimp.

[tkr4lf]

one piece of advice. you must have an interesting gameplay and a catching theme all wrapped up in nice graphics.
if you plan a simple classic gameplay with decent graphics then forget about it. that might work for a country or a real region but it won't for you.

Have you read the thread? Or even the posts on the page before this one? The gameplay is far from classic gameplay. It's all explained just a few posts above yours. As far as graphics, they may only be decent. I don't know. I'm trying here, but I'm not so great at this.

i'm sorry, i haven't read all posts in the thread. i rarely/never do. i try to give feedback on as many maps as possible and if i stopped to read the whole threads i wouldn't have time to do it.
i always look at the latest update and start from there.
your first post includes a few updates but says nothing about gameplay so it looked pretty classic judging just from the image.
please take a look at the first post of my map: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 2#p3223782
it includes all versions of the map with detailed information of what each update brought and includes the first description of the map. it really helps people quickly identify what the map is about as well as showing what problems have been addressed so far. also having the version number date and page in the title helps people avoid wasting time to search for things. this is more of a general advice of maintaining a nice and functional thread and avoid situations like this one where one commenter wants to help but doesn't have the time to read the whole thread.

make a crude sketch of the map. even in paint. it doesn't really matter as long as it serves the purpose of explaining the gameplay.
once you have a decent gameplay you can start working on the graphics.

I don't want to do anything in paint anymore. Sorry. lol, my first drafts for this map were in paint, and they looked horrible. I can't go back to that now. I'll find a way to represent the gameplay on the map as is.

i didn't say you have to make it in paint, i said you could even make it in paint. it doesn't really matter how horrible it looks as long as it is functional. once the gameplay sounds attractive and people understand more about it you can start working on better graphics.

however be prepared for a long bumpy road especially seeing you're new at gimp.

Yeah, I've been meaning to update my first post for a while. I'm going to get around to it at some point. Sorry for the confusion here.

Also, yeah, I've figured out it's gonna be a long, bumpy road. It's whatever, I want to make this map, so I'll do what I have to.

[tkr4lf]

Ok, the C's are cities, the V's are villages, the IP is the Imperial Palace. These locations aren't fixed by any means. They can and will need to be moved around for balance issues. I tried to balance it out as much as I could in 20ish minutes.

So, basically, 8 of these cities (the cities with a red dot in them) will be starting points. All of the other C's and V's will start neutral (say 5 for cities and 3 for villages). The MB's will start with a fairly high neutral (say 10). The IP will have a very high neutral (say 20), and the 3 territs surrounding the IP (IP 1-3) will have a neutral that is somewhere in between the MB's and the IP (say 15). Every other territ is randomly dropped.

As for bonuses...something like +2 for 2 cities, +1 for every additional city. +1 for 2 villages, +1 for every additional 2 villages.

If you hold all of the D empire, you receive +15. If you hold all of the P empire, you receive +20. If you hold all of the L empire, you receive +25. If you hold the IP and all three of the surrounding territs (IP 1-3) you receive +10.

If you hold the IP with all of the D empire, you receive +20. If you hold the IP with all of the P empire, you receive +25. If you hold the IP with all of the L empire, you receive +30.

Each starting city also receives a +2 autodeploy. Each regular city receives a +1 autodeploy.

Each MB recieves a +3 autodeploy.

If at any point a commander ceases to hold at least 1 city, then he is eliminated.

Victory is achieved by either eliminating all other commanders or by holding the IP and 2 of the empires.

[natty dread]

Ok, now just add a legend to the map that explains all of that which you just explained in your post. The image needs to be truly stand-alone, with no additional explanations needed, to be considered a working draft.

[QoH]

Why not apply for supersize with the aforementioned map? I really like the size, and I think you could fit a lot more things onto it and make it really interesting.