There is no proof Homer wrote the Illiad

[DoomYoshi]

No. That guy legit holds those views as far as I can tell.

[AAFitz]

There's nothing that writes off the possibility all together, but there's no reason to believe that it is what has actually occurred. Also, what do you think that the people that wrote the Old Testament meant when they used the word "day" (or the rough equivalent for day in Hebrew I suppose).

Already explained why that is irrelevant earlier, http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 5#p4034467 . Personally I doubt the earth's revolving speed would have been any different, and that "days" simply meant "periods of time".

I'm not saying that the author of the Old Testament is important. I mean sure, it was definitely not Moses who wrote it, but let's just take things at face value for a moment. Do you think that there was any question about what was meant by the word 'day' to the author of that part of Genesis or to anyone of that time period? When was it that the word 'day' became questioned? I honestly don't know the answer to these questions, but I have a strong suspicion that this analysis of the passage only became popular as we discovered evidence that the universe was much, much, much older than five thousand years.

I guess that might not matter to some people, but to me it comes off as someone finding that the square peg doesn't fit in the round hole, and desperately whittling it down so that they can continue to avoid the elephant in the room.

Bad idea to argue linguistics in this case. "Day" wasn't really invented until the Romans were kicked out of Britain. The early versions of the Bible may not have been in English, but no matter, it's still only 2000 years old at most. We can't possibly assume that there was a word for the concept of "day" 5000 years ago that we can comprehend now as much as we can assume there was a word for "screwdriver" when Jesus was still around. First documented version of the word was this one:

Spoiler

c1000 Ælfric Genesis i. 5 God..het þæt leoht dæg & þa þeostra niht.
~OED

which is an actual quote from a bible.

In my earlier post I was addressing my personal opinion, which is irrelevant. This is more interesting. Still not worth an internet debate on this specific forum, but still worth thinking about.

I like this guy.

[jonesthecurl]

The Sumerian for day was "ud".

[BigBallinStalin]

So, let's be consistent with the "day = Very Long Time Period" hypothesis.

When the Sumerian butcher said that the cattle would arrive in two days. Did he mean "in two very long time periods" or "two days"?

[_sabotage_]

So what do atheist believe? You just die? So why even live?

[Frigidus]

So what do atheist believe? You just die? So why even live?

Because not living would be an undesirable alternative on a personal level?

[_sabotage_]

But you will disappear into nothingness and it won't matter if you ever lived once dead.

[BigBallinStalin]

So what do atheist believe? You just die? So why even live?

Opportunity cost.

[BigBallinStalin]

But you will disappear into nothingness and it won't matter if you ever lived once dead.

So says the avatar with some pills, a knife, and a melodramatic emo kid.

Sure, it matters. Otherwise, why do anything at all?

Does atheism only lead to nihilism, dude?

[jonesthecurl]

But you will disappear into nothingness and it won't matter if you ever lived once dead.

And singing "God is good, halleluljah, nice one God, well done, you're really something, I am not worthy" forever would matter, how?

[chang50]

But you will disappear into nothingness and it won't matter if you ever lived once dead.

And singing "God is good, halleluljah, nice one God, well done, you're really something, I am not worthy" forever would matter, how?

Wouldn't matter to me or you who are mentally strong enough to resist indoctrination and continue living in the real world.It does matter to the sincerely faithful as much as the crutch does to the cripple or the bottle to the alcoholic.

[aage]

But you will disappear into nothingness and it won't matter if you ever lived once dead.

And singing "God is good, halleluljah, nice one God, well done, you're really something, I am not worthy" forever would matter, how?

It would if he'd listen.

So, let's be consistent with the "day = Very Long Time Period" hypothesis.

When the Sumerian butcher said that the cattle would arrive in two days. Did he mean "in two very long time periods" or "two days"?

It sucks, but we can't say for certain. We can assume, sure. But then still, why take 6 days to make the universe? And were those Sumerians around when God made it?

[crispybits]

I always liked the fact that God made all the plants, and then only one the next day made the sun. So for one "day" all the plants were around freezing to death and not getting any sunlight or warmth, and only after that did God provide what they needed to live.

[aage]

I always liked the fact that God made all the plants, and then only one the next day made the sun. So for one "day" all the plants were around freezing to death and not getting any sunlight or warmth, and only after that did God provide what they needed to live.

Watch out, there's two versions.

First version
- Sunday: God creates light. The light is divided from the darkness, and "day" and "night" are named.
- Monday: God creates a firmament and divides the waters above it from the waters below. The firmament is named "heaven".
- Tuesday: God gathers the waters together, and dry land appears. "Earth" and "sea" are named. Then God brings forth grass, herbs and fruit-bearing trees on the Earth.
- Wednesday: God creates lights in the firmament of Heaven, to separate light from darkness and to mark days, seasons and years. Two great lights are made, as well as the stars.
Note: God apparently wanted to make the most of humpday. The simple five-letter-word "stars" does not do justice to the monumental amount of work that must have been exerted to create the effectively countless number of stars in the universe.
- Thursday: God creates birds and sea creatures, including "great sea serpents" or "great whales". They are commanded to be fruitful and multiply.
- Friday: God creates wild beasts (the goat came to be and there was much rejoicing), livestock and reptiles upon the Earth. He then creates Man and Woman in His "image" and "likeness". They are told to "be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it." Humans and animals are given plants to eat. The totality of creation is described by God as "very good".
- Saturday: God finishes his work of creation, and rests from His work as Jack Bauer says, "I'll take it from here."

Second version
To complicate things the second chapter of Genesis beginning in 2:4 has a different creation story. In this one the order goes as follows:
- Earth and heavens
- Mist and water on the earth
- Adam, the first man on what seems to be an empty earth
- Plants
- Animals
- Eve, the first woman (from Adam's rib)

~ http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Creation_Week

Ironic, indeed, how the first version speaks of the concepts of "night" and "day" and "light" without any sun or stars around. I suppose they fixed that in version 2.0.

(inb4 rationalwiki unreliable source)

[_sabotage_]

Someone who believes that the world is all interconnected and that no part of the universe is outside this connection and calls this connection our creator also believes that the flesh will become part of the cycle of earth, but the soul will become part of the universe. As such, it doesn't matter if we die, it matters what we became during our life. If your every waking hour was determined by money, getting one over on the other guy, ie game theory, and having a hot wife so your friends all want to f*ck her, then in death, your soul is quite lost, it will have a terrible time adjusting and will probably suck for you.

On the other hand if you spend your life seeking freedom, equality and harmony with the world around you, you will be quite compatible in your new state.

Someone who believes this looks forward to death bc they will finally achieve the things they have been striving for. As to singing halleluiah all day and praise your maker, i dont agree with organized religion and the souls who expect to find a man up there with actual keys bc they said sorry for the crap they did and now want a nice house to chill for eternity will be in for a surprise. Remember god is in each of us and all of us regardless if we want him there or not, treating each other well means treating god well, if you want to sing hallelujah, at least direct it at plants bc i've heard they enjoy singing.

[BigBallinStalin]

But you will disappear into nothingness and it won't matter if you ever lived once dead.

And singing "God is good, halleluljah, nice one God, well done, you're really something, I am not worthy" forever would matter, how?

It would if he'd listen.

So, let's be consistent with the "day = Very Long Time Period" hypothesis.

When the Sumerian butcher said that the cattle would arrive in two days. Did he mean "in two very long time periods" or "two days"?

It sucks, but we can't say for certain. We can assume, sure. But then still, why take 6 days to make the universe? And were those Sumerians around when God made it?

Wrong questions, but here's an answer:
God is mysterious, or to be exact we can't make definite predictions with the Bible because it's not science; it's human, classical literature.


If you don't like that answer, here's another:
Just sayin' that 'way back then', when someone said, "two days," it meant "two days and two nights." To show how mighty God was, the authors mentioned that he created everything in 6 days, which at that time, was super fast--considering the average time to produce anything back then. Over time, 6 days started sounding implausible, so human reinterpret it as "OH, 6 long periods of time! Yeah that's it, but in other parts of the Bible a "day" means a day!""

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Someone who believes that the world is all interconnected and that no part of the universe is outside this connection and calls this connection our creator also believes that the flesh will become part of the cycle of earth, but the soul will become part of the universe. As such, it doesn't matter if we die, it matters what we became during our life. If your every waking hour was determined by money, getting one over on the other guy, ie game theory, and having a hot wife so your friends all want to f*ck her, then in death, your soul is quite lost, it will have a terrible time adjusting and will probably suck for you.

On the other hand if you spend your life seeking freedom, equality and harmony with the world around you, you will be quite compatible in your new state.

Someone who believes this looks forward to death bc they will finally achieve the things they have been striving for. As to singing halleluiah all day and praise your maker, i dont agree with organized religion and the souls who expect to find a man up there with actual keys bc they said sorry for the crap they did and now want a nice house to chill for eternity will be in for a surprise. Remember god is in each of us and all of us regardless if we want him there or not, treating each other well means treating god well, if you want to sing hallelujah, at least direct it at plants bc i've heard they enjoy singing.

protip: there's no such thing as a soul.

Get over it.

-TG

[aage]

Wrong questions, but here's an answer:
God is mysterious, or to be exact we can't make definite predictions with the Bible because it's not science; it's human, classical literature.

Oh. Here I was, thinking we were just bashing creationists. My bad. You are correct about the Bible, by the way.

I liked the bit in Assassin's Creed 3 where dad says that the will of the Gods was literally unknowable, too.

[AAFitz]

So what do atheist believe? You just die? So why even live?

If you have to ask, you haven't lived.

[AAFitz]

But you will disappear into nothingness and it won't matter if you ever lived once dead.

Won't matter to whom?

It wont matter if one of my chickens die either, but they seem to enjoy living.

You should give it a try. You're obviously missing out.

If you need proof, talk to those that have almost died. Given the choice, there isn't one.

[_sabotage_]

It won't matter to anyone. You are gone, so you will have no feeling in the matter, soon everyone you know will be gone, so you can't matter much through them and only 0.00001% of us are going to be remembered in 100 years, much less in a 1000.

[betiko]

It won't matter to anyone. You are gone, so you will have no feeling in the matter, soon everyone you know will be gone, so you can't matter much through them and only 0.00001% of us are going to be remembered in 100 years, much less in a 1000.

big deal. the earth and the sun will die too one day and no one will remember them either, it is what it is!

[AAFitz]

It won't matter to anyone. You are gone, so you will have no feeling in the matter, soon everyone you know will be gone, so you can't matter much through them and only 0.00001% of us are going to be remembered in 100 years, much less in a 1000.

You're forgetting a few key people that it will matter to, number one being yourself, though I agree, some matter more than others.

In any case, if you can't imagine how life matters without a creator and an afterlife, life is absolutely wasted on you.

[_sabotage_]

Thank you for humble opinion.

[AAFitz]

Thank you for humble opinion.

Its meant as advice, not opinion, and not humble, but with complete and unwavering certainty.