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POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

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Even out as best the amount of game a player start each round (2 players game only)

Poll ended at Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:06 pm

Yes
86
91%
No
8
9%
 
Total votes : 94

Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby Furio on Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:16 am

This is a no-brainer. Good idea, bamage.

bamage wrote:There is no scenario - even this one - where the start wouldn't be "more fair" if the first person wasn't able to attack. I don't think you understand the recommendation. In your scenario, left the way things are, that first player would be able to attack and would take permanent control of the game. At least this way the second player would have a chance.

Your objection is that it doesn't perfectly address the problem, in certain circumstances. It's a huge, easily implemented improvement. Not sure how you get "back to square one" from your objection.

And, like I pointed out, it also addresses the foggy courtesy-rule issue, perfectly.


Mad777 wrote:
bamage wrote:
lawz21 wrote:I feel like the most fair thing would be to not let the person who goes first the ability to attack. Make them wait until the second round while the person who goes second can attack when they both have the same amount of troops. Just a thought


I totally agree with this. Problem solved. It would actually turn EVERY game into a more equal game, not just divvy up the advantages. And it takes the question of the odd game (e.g. the third game) off the table. It would also address the foggy courtesy rule effectively. It's a perfect solution.


It wouldn't with game with high bonus start such as Pearl Harbor for instance, if the first to start would only deploy with a +15 Bonus while the player starting second only have +8 to put down and to attack a stack of 18, where this would even out the advantage? looks like back to square one IMO
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby Dukasaur on Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:11 pm

bamage wrote:There is no scenario - even this one - where the start wouldn't be "more fair" if the first person wasn't able to attack. I don't think you understand the recommendation. In your scenario, left the way things are, that first player would be able to attack and would take permanent control of the game. At least this way the second player would have a chance.

It is a good idea, but last time it was voted on, it was overwhelmingly rejected. Wasn't even close, something like 80-20, with a very well-attended poll.

The webmaster is really unlikely to give a second chance to an idea that has been rejected by such an overwhelming margin.
2019-10-17 22:46:23 - MGSteve: Some games you're the dog. Some games you're the hydrant.
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby .SCuD. on Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:07 am

Obviously this is better than purely random. There really is no argument against it.

I want to add another idea. Not sure where to post it as I’m not too involved in forums so I’ll just add it here. “Make the first round of tournaments random, not seeded by rank”
I’ve just entered a poly tournament. I will probably be first or second highest rank. Which means round 1 I’ll be up against someone with a ranking of about 1000. It will be a whitewash. It is very rare for me to not win 5-0 in round 1.
That isn’t fun for the low ranks entering.

It also isn’t fair on the mid ranked players if it’s done by cumulative points, not just by who wins the round (which some are... which is also a crap idea!!!). As they have to battle people ranked 2000 for their points, whilst us higher ranked players are just given free points!!!

So yeah, that’s the other idea. Do cup style tournaments purely by who wins the round. Get rid of any cumulative points cup style tournaments.
Cumulative points only works in league formats as the opponents are the same
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby Tin Trumpet on Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:09 am

thank you. yes. finally. hooray.

actually, when setting up games, you could select random starts or even starts. then those that want to run a tournament based on luck can do so. those that want to remove a bit can also.

and if a trouney is random starts, you dont have to enter it if you dont want to
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby bamage on Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:14 am

I'm still trying to convince myself that the webmaster is going to implement any of these suggestions.

Dukasaur wrote:
bamage wrote:There is no scenario - even this one - where the start wouldn't be "more fair" if the first person wasn't able to attack. I don't think you understand the recommendation. In your scenario, left the way things are, that first player would be able to attack and would take permanent control of the game. At least this way the second player would have a chance.

It is a good idea, but last time it was voted on, it was overwhelmingly rejected. Wasn't even close, something like 80-20, with a very well-attended poll.

The webmaster is really unlikely to give a second chance to an idea that has been rejected by such an overwhelming margin.
Penny Becquey (PBecquey) does not observe the 12-hour courtesy rule in foggy tournaments, even when virtually everyone else does. She needs all the advantage she can get, but that doesn't make it okay. Spread the word.
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby Dukasaur on Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:46 am

bamage wrote:I'm still trying to convince myself that the webmaster is going to implement any of these suggestions.

There's been quite a few little improvements, lately.

eg. https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=233832

Mad777 has been really good for keeping BW's toes to the fire. Slowly but surely, stuff is getting done again.
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby rousseau72 on Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:52 pm

Absolutely, please make the first start advantage distributed evenly.
To the players that say "luck is part of the game" they are missing the point that this is a tournament. It's not just a random pickup game. If you enter a tournament, then don't you want to say you won it on skill and not based on luck?
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby jfm10 on Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:20 pm

Add a beginning phase that each player rolls the dice to see who starts. This could even help out the auto snap issue.
This would have the dice issues extended to a new area but it's just my 2 cents.
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby .SCuD. on Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:04 pm

jfm10 wrote:Add a beginning phase that each player rolls the dice to see who starts. This could even help out the auto snap issue.
This would have the dice issues extended to a new area but it's just my 2 cents.


That is exactly the same as random starts
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby bamage on Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:08 pm

At this point I'm happy when I get any starts at all. I've had no starts in the last 2 rounds, and 1 start in the 5-game final before that. This just seems lazy.
Penny Becquey (PBecquey) does not observe the 12-hour courtesy rule in foggy tournaments, even when virtually everyone else does. She needs all the advantage she can get, but that doesn't make it okay. Spread the word.
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby rockfist on Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:27 pm

Yeah, Bamage is against me in Portugal and he got no starts, which is nasty on a board where you start at 12 territories.
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby Shoe555 on Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:34 am

This would be fair.
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby DBandit70 on Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:14 am

shoop76 wrote:I actually don´t like this. Yes it sucks not to get starts, but its part of the game.


yea I feel the same +1
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