[Unofficial] REVAMPS

[fluffybunnykins]

what's wrong with Circus Maximus?

[gimil]

what's wrong with Circus Maximus?

its graphics :\

[fluffybunnykins]

they're definitely not the worst...

[gimil]

and there definetly not the best

[KEYOGI]

I've given revamps some thought over the last few days and have come to a few conclusions. While there has been a lot of talk about revamps in the past, it seems a lot of it was just that. There's definately enough interest in revamps, but it seems we might be lacking the enthusiastic volunteers I had hoped for.

So I'm throwing out the rule book and any existing ideas on how I thought revamps might take place. Each revamp can be approached on a map by map basis with no restrictions except those specifically set by the original cartographer.

I've updated the second post of this thread and removed all those maps except the ones that already have nominated revamp cartographers. From now on, if you want to participate in a revamp, post in this thread or PM me with the details. I won't add any futher maps to the list unless there's someone who actually wants to revamp it. I still encourage everyone to discuss the prospect of revamps though.

[yeti_c]

Each revamp will take place on a map by map basis, with the original cartographer having the right to set any restrictions or guidelines as they see fit. It is important that we respect the original cartographers vision and intention for their original pieces of work.

PROPOSED REVAMPS

British Isles
Nominated Cartographers: gimil

Canada
Nominated Cartographers: Keredrex

Circus Maximus
Nominated Cartographers: Keredrex, WidowMakers

Indochina
Nominated Cartographers: Wisse

Montreal
Nominated Cartographers: johloh

I thought Marvaddin had mentioned that he wanted to revamp his own Brazil?

Perhaps drop him a PM?

C.

[KEYOGI]

I think I'll leave off personal revamps as there's no behind the scenes work that needs to be done. I would like to revamp Australia at some point and if Marv ever gets around to revamping Brazil he can do it on his own terms, there's no need for me to get involved.

[WidowMakers]

I would like to do a revamp on Circus Maximus, KOTM and 8 Thoughts. What do I do? What restrictions do I have? Thanks.

[yeti_c]

I would like to do a revamp on Circus Maximus, KOTM and 8 Thoughts. What do I do? What restrictions do I have? Thanks.

KOTM? 8 Thoughts? These are both yours and both new?!

I guess for those two - just submit new images and away we go...

C.

[WidowMakers]

I would like to do a revamp on Circus Maximus, KOTM and 8 Thoughts. What do I do? What restrictions do I have? Thanks.

KOTM? 8 Thoughts? These are both yours and both new?!

I guess for those two - just submit new images and away we go...

C.

OK they are done. On to Circus Maximus

[KEYOGI]

First batch of cartographers have been contacted and British Isles has already been approved and is ready for revamping. I've updated the first two posts, so it won't hurt for people to check over these.

I now have the contact details for all the cartographers, so with some luck the whole process can speed up a little from now on.

[nagerous]

why revamp British isles, it is one of the most popular maps and I for one would like it to remain as it is. There are so many more awful maps that need work on, montreal, canada, crossword, indochina, CM spring immediately to mind. There is no point wasting time on a revamp of British Isles!

[gimil]

were not talking gameplay here. were talking graphics and the british isles needs it. Imgonig to ensure the british isles gameplay remains the same and there by not harming the playability you all love

[ZawBanjito]

Whoops. Double post.

[ZawBanjito]

I'm horrified!

How did British Isles get approved for this process and in what capacity? Visual? Total overhaul? And what happens if the creator blankly refuses to allow their map to be revised? If Nobu actually said yes to this I'm going to kick his nuts in.

The complaint about the antique names is older than they are and personally I think it's a bit on the pointless side. The map was created as a homage to the Classic map, out of the creator's own interest in historical matters. Do me a favor, and find me Siam in an atlas, and then come talk.

As for the visuals, at the time the map was released they were far superior to anything else being played. If they look out of place now I humbly suggest that's because most new maps being made today have an initial visual impact similar to what would have if you ate 50 jelly babies, waited a half hour, and then threw up.

And as to game play, there was a long and thorough discussion of that WHEN the map was created, a thread which is certainly archived and may be read. I submit that its continued popularity is evidence of the success of that INITIAL creative process. Let's compare:

British Isles: 6 pages of active games
USA: 4 pages
Africa: 3 pages
Australia: 2 pages
Ancient Greece: 2 pages
Canada: 2 pages
Brazil: 2 pages
Asia: 2 pages
Germany: 2 pages
Arctic: 2 pages
Ireland: 2 pages
Montreal: 2 pages
Hong Kong: 2 pages
Indochina: 1 page

I'm bored doing this now, but just from this list, British Isles is CURRENTLY more popular than MOST OF THE MAPS AVAILABLE. Clearly The British Isles is not THE FIRST map you should be turning to for revision. This is because it's an interesting map that allows for many varied and original tactics.

I'm a personal friend of the creator, and since he doesn't read the forums and is probably unaware of the details of this ludicrous mob process, I'm going to call him up and tell him about it. Also, I'm going to strenuously insist that any revisions that may or may not occur are done by HIM and according to HIS WILL. If he lets gimil anywhere NEAR it (no personal offense, gimil...) I'm going to punch his damn nose right off his cowardly face.

Contiiiiiiinue.

[gimil]

non taken lol

this map seems to be creating alot of fuss : \

if i can get into talks with the creator dorectly im sure we can sort this out lol

[ZawBanjito]

Okay, I done calmed down.

I now want to calmly wonder why there's a revision process going on in the first place. As I recall, with the exception of the Middle East map, and the three original maps (Classic, Asia, USA) there isn't a single map up that wasn't created under the foundry guidelines now in place. That is to say they were extensively discussed, veted, and approved. Why are there people then being put in charge now of CHANGING them, and the entire process having to be reopened? Why can't they just create new maps on their own? Having been here a long time, I view a lot of these maps with something close to affection. If the original creators aren't willing to reopen the process themselves personally, then I say leave the maps alone. Create your own maps! We'll have the original British Isles and the new United Kingdom and Ireland, or whatever, and we'll see which one takes the cake.

[gimil]

I politly disagree. Sure they have been through the foundry process. But standards have changed over time. This revamp proposal is to bring the standards up to the current day. If the creator of british isles want to revamp his own map ill gladly let him. but permission ahs been granted now there shouldnt be any problems with the map going throught the process again. and like KEYOGI said it allows less experiences cartographers gain experience and a little moral when there map is loaded for play.

[gimil]

Aw well never mind. seems that the brakes have been put on for the british isles anyway

[Nobunaga]

... Put the brakes on any revamping of the British Isles. Leave it be. I'll take care of it.

... Thank you.

[ZawBanjito]

I see your enthusiastic, gimil, and that's real cool. You certainly don't seem to lack for morale! Take a hand at your own map, and I promise I'll take part in the process (and do my best not to be as grating as I'm clearly being here.)

But what are the standards of "the current day" and how are those being defined? An old Victorian home might slump a bit around the window frames but we hardly tear it down and stick up something in concrete and glass just because it's new, do we?

If the original creators are available to work more on their map and keep to the original spirit and vision that they had when it was created and which everyone responded to then and continue to respond to now, then all power to them. Otherwise, why? What's being accomplished by this process, other than the erasure of the history of this site?

[ZawBanjito]

... Put the brakes on any revamping of the British Isles. Leave it be. I'll take care of it.

... Thank you.

DATZ RIGHT BROTHAH! YOU KEEP DA POWER WOOOOOO RESPECK.

If that's the case, then personally I think you should put in the White Cliffs...

[KEYOGI]

No worries Nobunaga, I'm just glad you got in before gimil put too much hard work into it.

In response to ZawBanjito, it's not up to me what maps get revamped and who wants to do them. It's all good and well for me to say a specific map could use a revamp, but if nobody wants to do it themselves then what is the point. After the success of the Middle East Revamp, there was quite a bit of interest in revamping a number of other maps, an idea that myself, Andy and Lack are all open to.

If people are interested in revamping a map, then so be it. The point of this thread is to stop people clogging up the foundry with revamp threads that are messy and likely to not go anywhere. With me having direct access to the contact details of original cartographers we can determine if revamps of specific maps can go ahead or not. Then all revamps can be put before the foundry in a structured and controlled way. Chances are, none of the maps to be revamped will see any gameplay changes, they'll just be visual updates. It's only when there are issues such as 4-way borders that there may be a need for some slight gameplay modification.

I have enormous respect for any cartographer that has got a map through the foundry and onto the site, I wouldn't wish for these people to have any ill feelings about a revamp of their original work. It's their work and they have a right to say they don't want it changed. We're just looking to freshen up some of these older maps and bring them up to scratch with the new maps that are coming out. No harm in that!

[gimil]

you make a good point but i jsut think that it would be nice if the graphics were updated a little. it colour coordination and layput are good i jsut feel boarders and texture need a good going over thats all

i just thought that this project would build me a bit of rep as a cartographer but i still respect the creators decision and will continue with my own two maps =)

[gimil]

oh and KEYGOI you need to change the 1st post of the thread lol