INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

[chapcrap]

Just doing a test post here. I have a whole thing typed up and I want to see if it's something in the post. Although, the preview is working fine, so I don't know why that would be the case.

[chapcrap]

Tried to make a different post. Didn't work. I also made a new topic to see if that would work and a mod could move the post. Also didn't work, but it made a topic with no post in it... Idk guys

[chapcrap]

Tried to make a different post. Didn't work. I also made a new topic to see if that would work and a mod could move the post. Also didn't work, but it made a topic with no post in it... Idk guys

I'll try to make a series of short posts I guess. VERY short posts seems to be working.

[chapcrap]

Tobi and Ragian, so you’re saying it didn’t matter what he claimed, you were going to lynch pershy either way? There was nothing he could do? If that’s the case, then why did you both unvote before voting him again? Doesn’t add up to me. What’s the purpose of a claim at all then? What was the purpose of your unvote?

Ragian, I’m doing nothing to redeem myself D2? Whatever. You’re whole initial logic for lynching day one was voting records. You led the lynch on pershy and now when I try to use pershy’s own words and voting records, you don’t like it because it’s against you? Ok then.

aage and TX, why are you voting me? You don’t want to use information gathered from our failed lynch? You just want to go with your “gut”?

[chapcrap]

My mail says i am fresh water but unless you are a sponge even the salt water one doesn't appear to be very dangerous.

Do any of you have their habitat stated in the role pm in one way or the other? Because I don't, and neither does the example role pm

For post above i was referring to the links provided at the time of the statement.Go back and read for yourself.

Except you specifically say your PM has that info
I am just asking a simple question to the rest of town, is it mentionned in anyone's role pm whether they are saltwater or freshwater?

Mine does not specify. The format of it does not look like there would be any type of that information given. I had questions about jfm's specificity about his role claim on D1, but posts from others explained away my questions. Although, I'm starting to question this. I will try to go back and look when I have time.

[chapcrap]

I do not think the approach of dakky and chap to paint certain things as scummy ever comes from town.

It sounds like they had a pre-planned agenda they are following.

Also I was hit with a post restriction which I believe came from scum. This might be egotistical but I think my posting in day 1 was contributing positively to the discussion, so for me to be silenced is an anti-town move. If I were suspected by a townie who thought I could be scum it doesn't make sense for them to silence me because that only makes it harder to sort me. Town would want me to talk more so they have more stuff to analyze.
This coupled with the fact that chapcrap is trying to paint the people not posting as scummy THIS EARLY in the day makes him incredibly suspicious.

Vote chapcrap

Umm, that wasn't me. Are you reading what is going on? That was Tobi. I wasn't able to post for a while.

So, you have a post restriction and don't explain as much as possible? Vote for the wrong person and immediately make another post? None of that makes sense.

BuJaber, are you able to say any more about the nature of your PR?

I was not allowed to post until a VC was posted that had at least 2 votes on a single wagon.

I was not told what the consequences of breaking said restriction would have been.

Oh good grief. What a ridiculous restriction. Why didn't you just say that to begin with?

[chapcrap]

Poisoner being town seems less likely to me than scum or third party. I'm pretty sure I've seen it happen in a non-wacky balanced game, it's just not super commo n as a town role. Honestly it's not super common period but has popped up more often as a secondary mafia kill or a variation of a Serial Killer. If town/third party, it doesn't really have a bearing on Blacky's alignment. If scum, it would be indicative of Blacky being town. We can't prove the alignment of the poisoner and 3rd party to me seems as likely as any other option, this would really only be a very slight town tell for Blacky. I also don't see much reason for Blacky to lie about being poisoned at the moment so I am going forth on the assumption he is telling the truth.

If he is scum he could be lying about being poisoned to get the healer to focus on him instead of themselves. I'm not sure if the healer would be like dakky/jfm roleclaims that stop actions at night or if it's a different role completely. dakky and jfm, can you heal blacky?

[chapcrap]

Is it possible the poisoner has a passive ability. Maybe Blacky's night action triggered the passive effect.

Care to share Blacky?

Why are you asking blacky for claim information at this point? Scummy

OK, OK.... I was going to wait until Monday when the full contingent is here, but you verbose types might add 15 more pages by then. Here's what I am (in part, not giving away everything) and what I know from my night action. I will probably need some protection tonight, although as stated earlier, my night actions can harm town as well as scum....

I am not a bus driver, or a water taxi driver, but I last night I could mis-direct someone's action. According to the mod, my abilities will be different on N2, but that's neither here nor there. My role is a TOWN role.
I am a squid and last night I squirted ink on a chosen person to mis-direct them.
I chose Metsfanmax.
I believe he is the poisoner. He was after someone else (no clue who), and my ink re-directed his action to blacky (who can still be scum, or can be town). I assume the action which was re-directed is targeted at a random player (in this case black). Could it be that the person actually targeted by Metsfanmax was told they were attacked, but weren't killed because of my action...don't know.
OK, that's what happened, believe it, or not. I am not going to reveal any more details of my role or future actions for obvious reasons.
If some sort of protector is out there, think of me tonight.


UNVOTE
VOTE METSFANMAX

Do you KNOW that his action went to blacky? Or is that just your speculation?

I still wonder if Blacky did something to trigger a poisoning. It would help if he shared his night action with us if it isn't too compromising.

What? No, stop fishing. Blacky's N1 action could not have influenced what someone else's N1 action was.

Again you are fishing for blacky to randomly give info and this time Mets gives you advise instead of calling you out for scumminess.

You should all be aware this is probably a bastard setup as I know how Razorvich thinks and over complicating it is just going to steer away from real conversation. He also said this is his first attempt at hosing a mafia game so expect more shits to happen. It reminds me of my setups when I tried to host a game but said it's a bastard, and not much players joined. Here he offers credits and that's the incentive, but any tries to think logically (if I'm correct) are futile.

This is the kind of discussion I tried to have D1 and got Mets, TX, and Ragian voting for me now... Watch out!

The point is that I was attacked by scum.

These types of statements are exactly why you deserve scrutiny. What you claim to know for sure is that you were attacked. The bit about the attack being by scum is speculation, not a fact, as you state here. And in that same post, you state that you suspect there's also an SK. So the statement-as-fact "I was attacked by scum" is suspicious.

Exactly what I was thinking. How is it known that it was scum? That part wasn't shared before...

Tobi, I think you're off base. What you say COULD definitely be true, but it's definitely not the simplest explanation.

As far as I'm concerned there is definitely scum among those voting for jfm on day 1 and that's where I'd like to focus on. When we have enough info that we can actually piece together some of the night actions with a reasonable amount of confidence we can lynch based on that then.

The why are you still voting me? You still didn't realize that even after all of the Tobi-talk that it wasn't me?

[Ragian]

Well, that last one sure was long, chap

Anyway, back to our discussion. Of course his claim matters. If I have phrased myself in way that lets on that claims never matter, I have misspoken...or typed. Firt of all, in a standard game, a claim matters more to me. I would not go lynching an uncontested doc or cop D1. In a bastard game with nothing to compare claims to, they matter less to me. I found Pershy's gameplay scummy. His claim did nothing to sway me from lynching him, and I am of the persuasion that we should lynch D1 to establish voting patterns.

Now, let me see if I understand your accusations correctly: You find me scummy because I voted Pershy. You find me scummy because I was sticking to my guns rather than running away spooked by the claim. I have no problem getting my hands dirty because I am town. As far as I see it, scum would be spooked by a seemingly powerful claim because they don't want to get their hands dirty for everyone to see. So yeah, I think you're barking up the wrong tree. If you want to find scum on Pershy's voting train, I would be looking at the easy middle of the park voters (if that's where you think you have found me, go right ahead with your agenda); voters that ease in when the train has been started, but before it gets critical.

And I unvoted in order to mull over the possibilities. Weighing for and against. Trying to make the best decision for town in the long run. And I stand by my actions.

Now, I'll go huff and puff till Skoffin's house is back to normal.

[BuJaber]

Yes chap I thought you were the one talking about people not posting.

Replace chapcrap with Tobikera in my day 2 posts.

Unvote, Vote Tobikera

[Ragian]

Okay, BuJ, just to have it all in one post, could you state your reasons for voting Tobi apart from him mentioning the ones that haven't posted?

[Pikanchion]

@Pika, who would you vote now? I mean, if you had to...

I'm not entirely sure, mainly I'm having a hard time sorting which of the bad plays are deliberately malicious and which are simply misguided. Even if you restrict it to actual claims, we already have three players who have made seemingly bad plays in that respect: First, jfm10 is an uncontested Doctor claim, but they claimed for no reason and now refuses to participate unless on the defensive. After that you have dakky21, who likewise claimed for no apparent reason, only to reveal it was some sort of misguided gambit to try tricking scum. Finally, Tobikera, who claimed solely to push for a lynch (on one of the more likely lynch candidates from Day 1) under an exceptionally poor line of reasoning. Tobikera has also lied at least once for absolutely no reason during Day 2 as far as I can surmise, "A healer was mentioned in my N1 info from the mod".

I still have my suspicions from Day 1 too, but it dawns on me that it may be possible to clear Metsfanmax if we lynch Tobikera and they flip Mafia.

I'll have a good look through some peoples' posts at some point, but most of Day 2 has been derailed by pure speculation so far, so unless I find something I missed from Day 1 I expect I'll be going for the two birds with one stone approach.

[TX AG 90]

Is it possible the poisoner has a passive ability. Maybe Blacky's night action triggered the passive effect.

Care to share Blacky?

Why are you asking blacky for claim information at this point? Scummy


UNVOTE
VOTE METSFANMAX

Do you KNOW that his action went to blacky? Or is that just your speculation?

I still wonder if Blacky did something to trigger a poisoning. It would help if he shared his night action with us if it isn't too compromising.

What? No, stop fishing. Blacky's N1 action could not have influenced what someone else's N1 action was.

Again you are fishing for blacky to randomly give info and this time Mets gives you advise instead of calling you out for scumminess.

Not scummy at all. At the time, there were 2 theories on how Blacky got poisoned
1. he was targeted
2. It was a misdirect (with Tobi convinced it was Mets)

I proposed a 3rd theory that it was passive. I was not asking Blacky to claim, just to share anything he could that might eliminate or support one of the theories. If he came back and said he did nothing but sit on his fins N1, we would be able to eliminate 3.

I asked twice because he had been unresponsive for 3 pages while the rest of us went back and forth.

Blacky finally weighed in here:

These are the facts;
1. I did not go for food, I played my night action
2. I did not get a response for my actual night action
3. The result I received was that I was poisoned
4. Going on the wording on the PM, it seems there is a healer/doctor role who can reverse the poison, thus saving me

IMO one of the following has occurred;
1. I was directly targeted by scum/3rd party
2. My night action triggered a defensive mechanism causing me to be poisoned
3. I was never the intended target but was poisoned due to redirection/bussing

As you can see, this gave nothing important away. Unfortunately, we were unable to eliminate any of the possibilities. However, it reinforced my position that a passive poisoner is possible.

At some point in the game, if we are 100% that Blacky is town (and we conclude the poisoner was passive), we may need him to tell us who he targeted N1 so the rest of us can avoid them.

[TX AG 90]

aage and TX, why are you voting me? You don’t want to use information gathered from our failed lynch? You just want to go with your “gut”?

You were one of my leading candidates coming out of Day 1 and you have done nothing to convince me you are town.

However, there are several others I have put in the possible scum bucket with you. I'll unvote for now.

Unvote chapcrap

[TX AG 90]

aage and TX, why are you voting me? You don’t want to use information gathered from our failed lynch? You just want to go with your “gut”?

You were one of my leading candidates coming out of Day 1 and you have done nothing to convince me you are town.

However, there are several others I have put in the possible scum bucket with you. I'll unvote for now.

Unvote chapcrap

But you are right, it was based on my "gut" and some weird things you said D1. However, that might just be your posting style and not enough to totally implicate you at this moment.

[blacky365]

At some point in the game, if we are 100% that Blacky is town (and we conclude the poisoner was passive), we may need him to tell us who he targeted N1 so the rest of us can avoid them.

I want to say who I targeted last night, but do not want to give that individual the time to prepare a defense story.
I am waiting to see if they reveal anything so I can trap them in a lie...

[strike wolf]

Honestly, Tobi' s logic is so flawed on the Mets case that's almost enoufh reason for me to vote him (put simply, modus ponens does not apply because we can't disprove that C, D or E could also explain what happened. We can't even really prove that A might = B because you've yet to prove that while redirected that Mets actually visited Blacky) but honestly, I fucked up day 1. I messed up when I read my role. I basically saw block mentioned in my role PM and thought I was a jailer (I even read it twice but maybe I should have waited until I was fully awake to read). What it actually was saying without quoting my role is that I prevent kill actions from reaching my target. Not that I prevent my targets actions.

I tried to ask JFM to clarify his role to keep from having to counter claim and I end up being wrong but I think I'm the only one barking that right now and I am not currently active enough to force the issue in a reasonable amount of time. Also, I admittedly may have been trying to avoid having to admit to such an embarrassing mistake.

Vote JFM

For the record, I did receive proof that my action was successful last night and it was not Skoffin.

So either a. Skoffi n was busdriven with the person I targeted. b. Skoffi n is lying. C. My target went for food and I prevented them from being killed that way or more unlikely, d. Skoffi n and my target were both targeted for kills.

I understand if people don't really believe me, it was a really newbiesque mistake, but if you do I would like to receive some kind of protection. Preferably something that could keep me from being role blocked.

[Pikanchion]

At some point in the game, if we are 100% that Blacky is town (and we conclude the poisoner was passive), we may need him to tell us who he targeted N1 so the rest of us can avoid them.

I want to say who I targeted last night, but do not want to give that individual the time to prepare a defense story.
I am waiting to see if they reveal anything so I can trap them in a lie...

Unless you actually have something relatively concrete please don't claim based on passive-poisoner speculation and rolefishing by TX AG 90, speaking of, @Ragian TX AG 90 has certainly jumped up my list of lynch candidates for today.

— FP'd by strike wolf —

Well, that certainly changes things... I don't have time right now, so I'll come back to that later.

[strike wolf]

Side note: I will tell you who I targeted last night if it becomes relevant or someone can convince me that it's relevant.

My species is axolotl

[TX AG 90]

At some point in the game, if we are 100% that Blacky is town (and we conclude the poisoner was passive), we may need him to tell us who he targeted N1 so the rest of us can avoid them.

I want to say who I targeted last night, but do not want to give that individual the time to prepare a defense story.
I am waiting to see if they reveal anything so I can trap them in a lie...

Yes, hold onto that. You've said enough for now.

[TX AG 90]

At some point in the game, if we are 100% that Blacky is town (and we conclude the poisoner was passive), we may need him to tell us who he targeted N1 so the rest of us can avoid them.

I want to say who I targeted last night, but do not want to give that individual the time to prepare a defense story.
I am waiting to see if they reveal anything so I can trap them in a lie...

Unless you actually have something relatively concrete please don't claim based on passive-poisoner speculation and rolefishing by TX AG 90, speaking of, @Ragian TX AG 90 has certainly jumped up my list of lynch candidates for today.

— FP'd by strike wolf —

Well, that certainly changes things... I don't have time right now, so I'll come back to that later.

Again, I wasn't role fishing. I was just trying to gather whether a passive poisoner was possible. Blacky said enough without revealing anything. It was well played and I haven't asked for anything since.

I've been the most active scum hunter D1. I may be overly enthusiastic and barking up the wrong trees because this is my first go, but I'm definitely town.

[TX AG 90]

Question for the group.

Are scum allowed to communicate with each other outside of voting on a night target? Or do they have to communicate openly on this board?

In other words, if Scum A used an ability to find out what Townie B's abilities are, could they message the rest of their scum buddy's?

[TX AG 90]

I've been the most active scum hunter D1. I may be overly enthusiastic and barking up the wrong trees because this is my first go, but I'm definitely town.[/quote]

EBMOP

I meant - most active scum hunter D2.

[blacky365]

Question for the group.

Are scum allowed to communicate with each other outside of voting on a night target? Or do they have to communicate openly on this board?

In other words, if Scum A used an ability to find out what Townie B's abilities are, could they message the rest of their scum buddy's?

I believe they can. I'm relatively new (and I have never been scum before) but I believe they have a messaging group independent of this thread where they communicate.

[strike wolf]

that really depends on the game. Sometimes mafia will try to get around it with a coded message basically saying "yes" or "no" or "this person is this" but that kinda depends on how much the mod allows them to get away with hidden messages. Honestly though, it's far from my biggest concern right now when they can communicate