The Thing TOWN WINS!

[Ragian]

@Strike, so, Traf is your first choice. Same as Son!c. Interesting. There are three votes on Son!c so far. One of them is Traf.

@EW, why are you on Son!c? (Have I missed your reasoning?)

Sigh...I'll put on the kettle and try to reread this thing.

[degaston]

2. Dega-confirmed town D1. WAY too quiet today and his excuse for why being very flimsy. Possibly recruited.

I guess you thought my excuse was flimsy on D1 when you voted to BT me. How did that turn out?

I've already given my opinion on who I think should be lynched, and I don't see any reason to change it.
But I'll give Ragian a chance to make up his mind, and see where that goes.

[SoN!c]

98% sure Deg is not converted. I mean the converted one should be expected to take the heat for the recruiter on D2 and create doubt. To a certain level. Your not supposed to throw your own reputation away. Like Votanic did. He started strong on the chaos part but returned "normal" when Things went over the edge. So If Deg is recruited i eat my hat. Deg was silent all the way D2. And if he is recruited and im so wrong i won't return to any mafia game in the future. 98,98% sure

[SoN!c]

Traf is the Thing. Deg is not the recruit. Im Fucks, vanilla scientist. Famous last words

[SoN!c]

2. Dega-confirmed town D1. WAY too quiet today and his excuse for why being very flimsy. Possibly recruited.

I guess you thought my excuse was flimsy on D1 when you voted to BT me. How did that turn out?

I've already given my opinion on who I think should be lynched, and I don't see any reason to change it.
But I'll give Ragian a chance to make up his mind, and see where that goes.

If you wanna lynch me and lose the game go right ahead. Don't hold back. Just say lynch SoN!c and put it in big blue.

[degaston]

If you wanna lynch me and lose the game go right ahead. Don't hold back. Just say lynch SoN!c and put it in big blue.

I already said I'd vote with Ragian. If he wants to lynch you, I'm fine with that.

[Votanic]

I'll make two posts. First I want to address Ragian's reaction to some of this post of mine from page 17 (reposted inside a spoiler box on pag 27)). Not being aggressive or antagonistic. I just want to get my side of the story out there. Is this old news now? Maybe, maybe not.

*If Sonic does turn out to be the Thing and gets away with it because nobody though it was worth BTing him, I will face-palm myself hard enough to give myself a concussion, therefore: BT Sonic

As for the vigilante, if there is a vigilante (and evidence suggests there is), he doesn't have particularly good aim, at least so far. That's totally understandable, but if town wants to be cautious about lynches it should also encourage the vigilante to not be reckless either. I wonder if he has a limited number of flame thrower uses? ...and I also wonder if he still would have that power if converted? A scary thought, but doubtful ...though in the movie (yes, that again) nothing stops the Thing from using human weapons.

My 'threat' (so to speak) to 'face-palm' myself was and still is a reaction to the town majority not taking Sonic's scuminess seriously, or even bothering to BT to find out if he is town or not. It isn't about me personally looking foolish. After all, I was among those that did vote for him on Day 1*. I still stand by this unapologetically.

*As did Dega, Swang, strike, & EW.

Also take note, that I speculated about the movie on page 17 in much the same way that strike does on page 26. The difference isn't in content, it is that I said it instead of the unofficial town mayor. So Ragian, yes that is a double-standard on your part. Bottom line is everybody can, will, dare I say, should, talk about the flavor of the game their in.

Okay, moving forward. My next post will be an update on my reads.

[strike wolf]

2. Dega-confirmed town D1. WAY too quiet today and his excuse for why being very flimsy. Possibly recruited.

I guess you thought my excuse was flimsy on D1 when you voted to BT me. How did that turn out?

I've already given my opinion on who I think should be lynched, and I don't see any reason to change it.
But I'll give Ragian a chance to make up his mind, and see where that goes.

I BTed you in part because I wanted to talk more. I call you out on being quiet because I want you to talk more. If you're still town, I trust you to have valuable input. If you've been converted, I want to hear more from you to see what's shifted. If you don't talk then yes, I'm going to assume you may have been recruited until proven otherwise. If I offend, I apologize. I'm interested in your viewpoint whether your town or scum. I tend to agree with you that Son!c comes across as manipulative and I'd like to hear more takes like that.

98% sure Deg is not converted. I mean the converted one should be expected to take the heat for the recruiter on D2 and create doubt. To a certain level. Your not supposed to throw your own reputation away. Like Votanic did. He started strong on the chaos part but returned "normal" when Things went over the edge. So If Deg is recruited i eat my hat. Deg was silent all the way D2. And if he is recruited and im so wrong i won't return to any mafia game in the future. 98,98% sure

Im not convinced hes recruited either but you should put less weight into what you consider the proper way to play as the recruit. I don't know how Dega acts as cult recruit and neither do you. Until then, behavior that seems off, whether it is how a recruit should act or not, should be noted.

So Son!c-Traf is mostly because of how hard they're going at each other. Son!c has been tunneled on Traf d1 and Traf has started really going after Son!c in return. Traf admits that he doesn't know who The recruiter is and thinks Son!c *might* be the recruit but he hasn't gone after others much at all even though he later acknowledged that town is likely screwed if we don't find the recruiter by EoD tomorrow. From what I have observed of him in Elementary and The Tick, I would have expected him to be a little too clever to get caught in a trap as scum of tunneling on an OMGus vote. Its even a pretty weak OMGus that was initially based on 1 single post that he claims shows a change in behavior. So the fact that he has sticks out to me.

Then on the Son!c side. He's been consistently against Traf but then he has attacks like this one:

show

Where he leaves out important context in an attack to make it look like Traf said something he didn't and when called out on it, there's no "oops you're right I misread." Or anything like that. He just shifts the line of attack. Honestly, if it was anyone but Son!c this would be a bigger red flag.

So you have two players both acting fairly scummy adamantly going at each other, it does read a bit like two scumbuddies trying to set the stage that they can't be aligned. You even get more meta as Son!c incidentally pointed out D1 that they sometimes play Risk games against each other and communicate on Whatsapp. Being more familiar with each other, that makes it more likely that one would recruit the other.

Now a few scenarios:

1. Traf is town-Son!c could have just misread or he could be the recruiter hard pressing a town. I don't think a recruiter Son!c would bank this much into the case but he could be counting on town to think that way or he could be the recruit feeling it's a worthwhile distraction from whoever is the real recruiter and doesn't care about the heat it draws to himself. In that case, Day 1 is regular Son!c suspicions and D2 is recruited Son!c trying to make a scene of it all.

2. Traf is recruiter-Then who did he recruit? Vot has defended him and might be a recruit. However, I dont think Traf is likely to recruit Vot over a more experienced player or one cleared like Dega. Degas absence could be in part because he was recruited and he's found it difficult to defend Traf. So he's elected to stay on the sidelines. Son!c could have been recruited and felt stuck attacking Traf because that was his D1 position. Most wouldn't go this hard into the attack on his recruiter but holding back also doesn't seem like his style of play.

3. Traf was recruited. This is more interesting because Traf was under some pressure D1 and for that, doesn't seem to be a great recruit choice. I don't think most players here would recruit him under those conditions. Maybe EW since I know EW respects Traf's playing ability and that might outweigh the negatives in his eyes but if EW was going that route, I would have expected him to have recruited me or Ragian based on similar logic but less heat on us. Unlikely Swang bur possible. It would be an interesting strat but I could see Son!c playing up how scummy Traf is and then getting him BTed/lynched D2 after recruiting him to gain himself brownie points. It would explain why Son!c has been on Traf D1 and Trafs attention to Son!c has turned more to suspicion D2.

Overall, I don't find Traf to be a likely recruit and I imagine a lynch on him would either reveal town or The Thing.

Son!c scenarios:

1. Son!c is town-then this is just how Son!c plays. He showed in D4 and 5 of The Tick that he is capable of making good scum reads and it's possible he made one on Traf.

2. Son!c is recruiter-it could also fit. He leans back into something akin to his Tick playstyle (which at the time he said was just him getting into character) and tries to take a lead role in the game to distract from his scummier behavior. He commits to trying to make himself seem willing to be BTed and Lynched, things the Thing should never want. Basically the ultimate bluff. Even more, he whines about how unbalanced the game is, makes a show of how he hopes DDS will make it more fair to town. More importantly, he tries to come up with a plan. a seemingly random plan that would at least make it seem like he's as likely to be on the chopping block as anyone else. It doesnt all quite fit perfectly which is why I lean Traf over Son!c but yeah. So who would Son!c recruit? Well again, Deg and Vot are on my short list of thoughts because of their behavior. Son!c could recruit Deg as the BTed target D1 knowing that he's likely safe from lynch for a while. He could recruit Vot because as no one would really expect him to recruit a newer player but that makes them more of a wild card and harder to tell when they're actually being scummy as opposed to just being new. Traf is possible too and I already listed why.

3. Son!c is the recruit-theres a few possible people who could recruit son!c. 1. Traf in an attempt to diffuse heat from himself that backfired. 2. EW who I do feel undersold Son!cs value as a recruit target. 3. Charle because he tends to be more in sync with Son!c than others. 4. Swang because he might want to avoid another late game situation like The Tick where suddenly me and Son!c were on the same page and aimed right at him. Son!c has been a bit more aggressive about going after Traf today but I think otherwise his behavior isn't that inconsistent with D1.

[Votanic]

Looking over my reads, I guess they haven't changed that much, but hopefully I will have a few new insights.
Admittedly many of my observations are about play style rather than actual scuminess/cultiness/Thinginess. I think that is fine, unless there is concrete evidence to say more.
The wine glasses can flip around the table X number of times, and any given behavior can be either a fine town vintage or deadly extraterrestrial poison.

I'll post my updates in Green since that color isn't being used by the mod.

Well it is day 2 and things have gotten decidedly crotchety....either because we're trapped on a desolate Antarctic research base with an alien ikiller...or, because we've all read and reread too many shrill and suspicious forum posts. Either explanation is acceptable.

Currently, over half the players are on the hot seat to some degree or other, including myself.

What do I think... Still no smoking gun. Everybody has a hunch... based on something that triggers them in their reads.

My reads, still not final or complete in any way.
1. Pixar: Good townies die young... Still dead, alas...
2. Extreme: Talks a lot and all over the map. Comes off as fickle but then there is a lot to be fickle about. He gives lucid observations. An analyst similar to the strikean ideal, perhaps a bit more scattershot.
3. Traf: He's been on the defensive since day one, the original reason for his bandwagon that seems trite (Getting pissed about Sonic)... Still not for or against him, but I tried to go back and pick out the post that everyone said was an over-reaction and I can't even find it! It doesn't stand out at all by Day 2 standards. The lesson here is it doesn't take much to get a sticky bad reputation on Day 1 ...and that is something I am all too aware of and sympathetic with...
4. Dega: Also railroaded on Day 1 and then got vindicated... but being a previously cleared BT isn't great. The Thing might convert him with the hope that the town won't pick on Dega twice.
Admittedly t is kinda boring to BT the same guy again, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be wise... He posts relatively little and isn't a huge finger-pointer. Day 1 and Day 2 quite similar. Could it be perceived as coasting. Sure, we already guessed that once and we were wrong ... and the Thing knows we guessed wrong. Who wants to taste the same glass of wine twice when there are so many louder, bolder, flamboyant, (dare I say, flavorful) vintages to try.
5. Ragian: Do I think Ragian's little lie is a scum-tell, not necessarily, because I agree that flavor isn't key, so why lie about it. Still, his flipping out about flavor-talk does come off as an over-reaction, at least equal to anything that Traf has been grilled for. He is town, at least today. Unfortunately, we seem to have gotten off on the wrong foot somehow. Hopefully we will play more games and he'll know that I always talk about flavor... of course, then he might really despise me.
6. Charle: He seems to get on any bandwagon that is convenient today an yesterday. That actually is suspicious, but maybe he is just laidback about playing mafia... He seems that way, but that might just be his avatar. He also has a (good?) RL excuse that he is busy working abroad. Again, he comes of as a reasonable townie, perhaps a bit too pliable or detached. The way things are going he seems unlikely to be the focus of suspicion, which of course is always suspicious.
7. Swang: He seems similar to Ragian, in that he is semi-quiet and then suddenly jumps out with his fingers a-pointing. he's dramatic about his scum-tells (not the only on) but that doesn't mean thy seem particularly substantiative. He doesn't post much either. I think of him mostly coming by to make short announcements. He should get an avatar, without one it makes it seem like he is trying to hide.
8. Sonic: His play style is triggering, at least to me. Other players seme to be more accustomed to it, but it still sticks out to me as something odd enough to investigate. Where to begin? As with Traf (and myself) I have some RL sympathy for Sonic being the nail that always sticks up. Afterall, if we were all perfectly behaved, there would be nothing to post about, right? However, in game, there are a limit to what is tolerable and Sonic has exceeded that on several occasions.
9. Strike: Another frequent scum-teller, like EW, Ragian, Swang, etc. It is necesssary gameplay, nothing necessarily wrong with it, but of course always being on the offensive is also a great defense.The voice of reason, by default (Ragian even says so). strike has played enough to always give a near-perfect town performance. So of course he could still do so even if he drew the scum straw. In a game without cops or detectives (as far as I know) what could stop a scummy strike?
10. Votan: I really don't like starting random scum-hunts, though I get that is a common technique. I really like to have something to hang my hat one. Not something I'm pretending to hang my hat on. This a mafia game, any of you might be lying. ..and at least in small ways, everybody does lie... I'm just gonna keep sifting for real evidence that pokes through the word salad. I feel quite uncertain, a vanilla townie who knows nothing. In the absence of compelling evidence, I can only try to point at behavior I deem scummy... or is it just annoying. Having now been on the receiving end of trumped-up charges, I know that all too well. If I'm expected to come up with a masterul theory that shows I'm 'really thinking about this', I guess I fail, but I can at least offer tons of healthy scepticism for everybody else's supposedly great ideas.

[TrafalgarLaw01]

Before a lynch happens. I want for real know what is Rag, Deg, Vot and Swang opinion on the Vote and Vig situation

Cause I can really not be on board with that strat meaning that if for some reason both the lynched and rhe viged turns town we are ina 4v3 situatuon that means not lynching the recruit is insta game over. While just lynch grants us a day before the same situation.

I am really surprised Strike propposed it and even bacjed it after I pointed the scenarios. Not to mention how fast EW was on board with it.

[degaston]

2. Dega-confirmed town D1. WAY too quiet today and his excuse for why being very flimsy. Possibly recruited.

I guess you thought my excuse was flimsy on D1 when you voted to BT me. How did that turn out?

I've already given my opinion on who I think should be lynched, and I don't see any reason to change it.
But I'll give Ragian a chance to make up his mind, and see where that goes.

I BTed you in part because I wanted to talk more. I call you out on being quiet because I want you to talk more. If you're still town, I trust you to have valuable input. If you've been converted, I want to hear more from you to see what's shifted. If you don't talk then yes, I'm going to assume you may have been recruited until proven otherwise. If I offend, I apologize. I'm interested in your viewpoint whether your town or scum. I tend to agree with you that Son!c comes across as manipulative and I'd like to hear more takes like that.

First off, I'm not offended at all. I know it's just a game.

As for my "excuse", it may be flimsy, but I said fairly early on that I had a lot going on. I was then BT'd, so you know that I wasn't just scummarining.

As for D2, I haven't shifted anything, so you can conclude that either I was recruited and now know that Sonic is town, or I wasn't recruited, and I don't know any more than on D1, but haven't seen any other case that is more compelling.

Normally, I'd like to make a spreadsheet and try to analyze what everyone's said, but I don't have that kind of time right now, so I'm going mostly by first impressions. I feel like Sonic may be playing "the best defense is a good offense", but I have no special knowledge, so I could be wrong. Part of what keeps me on him is that of all the players, I'll be most upset if it turns out he is the recruiter, and wins by playing so scummy that people think he can't possibly be scum. I asked Sonic to explain his case on Traf, but as far as I can tell he never did. So if Sonic insists on making this all about him and Traf, I could be ok with lynching one today and BT the other if the first one is town.

[SoN!c]

2. Dega-confirmed town D1. WAY too quiet today and his excuse for why being very flimsy. Possibly recruited.

I guess you thought my excuse was flimsy on D1 when you voted to BT me. How did that turn out?

I've already given my opinion on who I think should be lynched, and I don't see any reason to change it.
But I'll give Ragian a chance to make up his mind, and see where that goes.

I BTed you in part because I wanted to talk more. I call you out on being quiet because I want you to talk more. If you're still town, I trust you to have valuable input. If you've been converted, I want to hear more from you to see what's shifted. If you don't talk then yes, I'm going to assume you may have been recruited until proven otherwise. If I offend, I apologize. I'm interested in your viewpoint whether your town or scum. I tend to agree with you that Son!c comes across as manipulative and I'd like to hear more takes like that.

98% sure Deg is not converted. I mean the converted one should be expected to take the heat for the recruiter on D2 and create doubt. To a certain level. Your not supposed to throw your own reputation away. Like Votanic did. He started strong on the chaos part but returned "normal" when Things went over the edge. So If Deg is recruited i eat my hat. Deg was silent all the way D2. And if he is recruited and im so wrong i won't return to any mafia game in the future. 98,98% sure

Im not convinced hes recruited either but you should put less weight into what you consider the proper way to play as the recruit. I don't know how Dega acts as cult recruit and neither do you. Until then, behavior that seems off, whether it is how a recruit should act or not, should be noted.

So Son!c-Traf is mostly because of how hard they're going at each other. Son!c has been tunneled on Traf d1 and Traf has started really going after Son!c in return. Traf admits that he doesn't know who The recruiter is and thinks Son!c *might* be the recruit but he hasn't gone after others much at all even though he later acknowledged that town is likely screwed if we don't find the recruiter by EoD tomorrow. From what I have observed of him in Elementary and The Tick, I would have expected him to be a little too clever to get caught in a trap as scum of tunneling on an OMGus vote. Its even a pretty weak OMGus that was initially based on 1 single post that he claims shows a change in behavior. So the fact that he has sticks out to me.

Then on the Son!c side. He's been consistently against Traf but then he has attacks like this one:

show

Where he leaves out important context in an attack to make it look like Traf said something he didn't and when called out on it, there's no "oops you're right I misread." Or anything like that. He just shifts the line of attack. Honestly, if it was anyone but Son!c this would be a bigger red flag.

So you have two players both acting fairly scummy adamantly going at each other, it does read a bit like two scumbuddies trying to set the stage that they can't be aligned. You even get more meta as Son!c incidentally pointed out D1 that they sometimes play Risk games against each other and communicate on Whatsapp. Being more familiar with each other, that makes it more likely that one would recruit the other.

Now a few scenarios:

1. Traf is town-Son!c could have just misread or he could be the recruiter hard pressing a town. I don't think a recruiter Son!c would bank this much into the case but he could be counting on town to think that way or he could be the recruit feeling it's a worthwhile distraction from whoever is the real recruiter and doesn't care about the heat it draws to himself. In that case, Day 1 is regular Son!c suspicions and D2 is recruited Son!c trying to make a scene of it all.

2. Traf is recruiter-Then who did he recruit? Vot has defended him and might be a recruit. However, I dont think Traf is likely to recruit Vot over a more experienced player or one cleared like Dega. Degas absence could be in part because he was recruited and he's found it difficult to defend Traf. So he's elected to stay on the sidelines. Son!c could have been recruited and felt stuck attacking Traf because that was his D1 position. Most wouldn't go this hard into the attack on his recruiter but holding back also doesn't seem like his style of play.

3. Traf was recruited. This is more interesting because Traf was under some pressure D1 and for that, doesn't seem to be a great recruit choice. I don't think most players here would recruit him under those conditions. Maybe EW since I know EW respects Traf's playing ability and that might outweigh the negatives in his eyes but if EW was going that route, I would have expected him to have recruited me or Ragian based on similar logic but less heat on us. Unlikely Swang bur possible. It would be an interesting strat but I could see Son!c playing up how scummy Traf is and then getting him BTed/lynched D2 after recruiting him to gain himself brownie points. It would explain why Son!c has been on Traf D1 and Trafs attention to Son!c has turned more to suspicion D2.

Overall, I don't find Traf to be a likely recruit and I imagine a lynch on him would either reveal town or The Thing.

Son!c scenarios:

1. Son!c is town-then this is just how Son!c plays. He showed in D4 and 5 of The Tick that he is capable of making good scum reads and it's possible he made one on Traf.

2. Son!c is recruiter-it could also fit. He leans back into something akin to his Tick playstyle (which at the time he said was just him getting into character) and tries to take a lead role in the game to distract from his scummier behavior. He commits to trying to make himself seem willing to be BTed and Lynched, things the Thing should never want. Basically the ultimate bluff. Even more, he whines about how unbalanced the game is, makes a show of how he hopes DDS will make it more fair to town. More importantly, he tries to come up with a plan. a seemingly random plan that would at least make it seem like he's as likely to be on the chopping block as anyone else. It doesnt all quite fit perfectly which is why I lean Traf over Son!c but yeah. So who would Son!c recruit? Well again, Deg and Vot are on my short list of thoughts because of their behavior. Son!c could recruit Deg as the BTed target D1 knowing that he's likely safe from lynch for a while. He could recruit Vot because as no one would really expect him to recruit a newer player but that makes them more of a wild card and harder to tell when they're actually being scummy as opposed to just being new. Traf is possible too and I already listed why.

3. Son!c is the recruit-theres a few possible people who could recruit son!c. 1. Traf in an attempt to diffuse heat from himself that backfired. 2. EW who I do feel undersold Son!cs value as a recruit target. 3. Charle because he tends to be more in sync with Son!c than others. 4. Swang because he might want to avoid another late game situation like The Tick where suddenly me and Son!c were on the same page and aimed right at him. Son!c has been a bit more aggressive about going after Traf today but I think otherwise his behavior isn't that inconsistent with D1.

Sorry but this Traf-SoN!c allignment is just bullocks.

Go back to D1: Traf was active and was playing real good. Then we (town) wanted to BT Pixar. Traf said "let's BT somebody else" (but he could not say who).

Why would you do that? Because if you have no idea on "who else" Pixar was as good as any..

That was my first big clue Traf could be The Thing.

If we went along with Traf and BT "somebody else" Traf would have scored lots of good "town credability". Because that way he'd risked being BT'ed himself (and The Thing would not do that for sure right?).
No, because it was still only a 10% chance that we would have chosen Traf in the end. And after saying "let's BT somebody else" who would have wanted to BT Traf? It's a great Thing move. Then i rubbed it a bit and Traf got emotional and dissapeared. Stayed on the defensive ever since.

So how could this end up in a "Traf-SoN!c allignment"?? Me as The Thing pushing to BT my recruit? Traf as The Thing converting me to keep pushing to BT himself? On D2??? The idea is just over the top ridiculous And don't say it's believable because..it's over the top ridiculous.

Anyway if you do even believe it 1% then lynch Traf.

If we don't hit a Thing now (on D2) the game is over. No way we can win on D3 with 3 Things steering the town remnant. No time left to "taste flavours" like you can keep tasting flavours till D6.. This one is the last one (without fixed names to BT / lynch D3).

Traf is the Thing, Votanic is his recruit. He is coming to Traf's defense a bit too much on D2 to be believable. Deg is not recruited.

The others:
Strike:If Strike or EW is The Thing then it's bloody well played. Especially if it's Strike. Yes he was a bit too silent overall but i can understand why.

EW: Yes, i have doubts on EW but not having doubts would not be a mafia game. But EW was searching, and searching draws attention. In the end too much ZigZag search to be the Thing i believe.

Swang and Charle,: Swang did clearly not read all posts and i believe the Thing does so that clears Swang for me. Charle, second game, first cult game. Man, if he is The Thing he deserves a statue here.

Deg: BT negative and not recruited i believe

That leaves only Traf. And Votanic. A Thing and a recruit. Both voting for me. Traf is voting because he SAYS he "thinks im possible recruited"?? Knowing we need to hit the recruiter..This is not Traf, this is a Thing Traf.
And Votanic, he wants to "taste flavours" like you have infinite chances.. but you do not. The lynch D2 has to be on the recruiter. Preferably with vig, BT D3 and lynch D3 names included.

Look at the Traf-Votanic allignment D2. Now that's a allignment.

My 2 cents.

[Ragian]

Before a lynch happens. I want for real know what is Rag, Deg, Vot and Swang opinion on the Vote and Vig situation

Alright, here:

I do want to clarify that if Traf flips town and there's no vig kill on Son!c, it does mean that MacReady was likely the N1 recruit but does not necessarily mean that Son!c is the recruiter. BTing him and if it comes clean, he can tell us who he believes is the recruited MacReady is the better play. Otherwise, I think I'd be in favor of Bting Extreme.

I gotta say that I've been of the thought that Strike is so town that he reeks. Everything he says is well thought out and balanced. This, however, strikes *giggles* as too planned. It involves Traf, Son!c, whoever MacReady is, and Extreme. It closes the game if wrong - for instance if Strike is The Thing - but if e.g. MacReady is (already) recruited just that would f*ck things up. It is not unthinkable that Strike is The Thing because he is damn good at this game. I'm just saying that this is dangerous and the might be the first time where I start to suspect Strike.

I don't think Strike even acknowledged my doubts.

---

My 'threat' (so to speak) to 'face-palm' myself was and still is a reaction to the town majority not taking Sonic's scuminess seriously, or even bothering to BT to find out if he is town or not. It isn't about me personally looking foolish. After all, I was among those that did vote for him on Day 1*. I still stand by this unapologetically.

Sure, why not, at this point I'm all for finding out if Ragian is The Thing... or just a flavor-hating grouch.

Unvote
BT Ragian

Pot, kettle, black...and so on...

---

I need to check something... Did anyone flare up on purpose in the beginning of our game?

[strike wolf]

Before a lynch happens. I want for real know what is Rag, Deg, Vot and Swang opinion on the Vote and Vig situation

Alright, here:

I do want to clarify that if Traf flips town and there's no vig kill on Son!c, it does mean that MacReady was likely the N1 recruit but does not necessarily mean that Son!c is the recruiter. BTing him and if it comes clean, he can tell us who he believes is the recruited MacReady is the better play. Otherwise, I think I'd be in favor of Bting Extreme.

I gotta say that I've been of the thought that Strike is so town that he reeks. Everything he says is well thought out and balanced. This, however, strikes *giggles* as too planned. It involves Traf, Son!c, whoever MacReady is, and Extreme. It closes the game if wrong - for instance if Strike is The Thing - but if e.g. MacReady is (already) recruited just that would f*ck things up. It is not unthinkable that Strike is The Thing because he is damn good at this game. I'm just saying that this is dangerous and the might be the first time where I start to suspect Strike.

I don't think Strike even acknowledged my doubts.

---

My 'threat' (so to speak) to 'face-palm' myself was and still is a reaction to the town majority not taking Sonic's scuminess seriously, or even bothering to BT to find out if he is town or not. It isn't about me personally looking foolish. After all, I was among those that did vote for him on Day 1*. I still stand by this unapologetically.

Sure, why not, at this point I'm all for finding out if Ragian is The Thing... or just a flavor-hating grouch.

Unvote
BT Ragian

Pot, kettle, black...and so on...

---

I need to check something... Did anyone flare up on purpose in the beginning of our game?

Well, your suspicion of me seemed to be mostly that I'm "too townie to be town", my plan on things and that I seem passive. I don't really have a response to the first. Ive already said why I defended my plan as I a. Vig or no vig, I think we're kind of screwed if we don't hit the recruiter and b. Feeling pretty confident that neither nor Vot are the recruiter. I'll acknowledge that if you don't trust me for any reason than you should not follow this plan. I don't consider it set in stone and I'm satisfied to get my thoughts on the matter out there in a way that makes any future cult Strike easier to spot if I do go back on my word. As for being passive, other than the period where I was relatively inactive while busy and trying to read back through people's Day 1s, I feel I have been pretty yactive and up front on my opinions. I gave you who I recalled voting for in answer as well as my position on who'd I'd vote for today.

@Son!c: I read your post while half-asleep and it seems most of it didn't stick. I'll reread when I'm more awake but the points I remember. I do agree that you and traf are not the most likely scum pairing but I do feel it's important to get this info out there because even Traf flipping Recruiter does not clear you and b. I do agree it's unlikely you would recruit Traf, as I said in post, I think it's unlikely that Traf is a recruit at all and we'd be more likely for him to flip town or recruiter. C. I mostly agree on Vot. He's on my shortlist of possible recruits.

[SoN!c]

I was letting time to analyse people comments on BT. I was thinking if I were the thing what would I do stay quiet and try to not be the tested one or try to be active and get someone else BT rather quickly.
It it were me I would have probably stay quiet but I feel most people in here would actually try to comment quickly on it to get a BT going asap so they dont get BT'ed D1.
There is not so much to read right now so its mostly a shot in the dark So I think I would BT EW or Votanic or maybe Strike cause I think he would played it similar to how I would so not draw to much attention.

If Traf is The Thing this is his recruit list, Votanic is on there. Why is that? Is Votanic a mafia expert like EW or Strike?

I feel a BT on Pix is just to easy, would rather BT someone else

His famous "lets BT somebody else" without knowing who 'somebody else' should be. So what is he saying here? "would rather test somebody else" What does that mean? Think on it. It's a strategy. Traf is always calculated and here he is saying let's take a random guess but let's not take the random guess on Pixar..???

A couple of people are suggesting Extreme. I've only seen him in two games. Well, one really... Why EW, @Traf?

To be honest, not real reason. I've got clue to suspect anyone at this point. He is a very smart player, same as Deg and Strike thats why I made my list out of them

Traf going for EW to deflect heat away from him. I was already on him. And he voted EW "not real reason"..

Anyways these are the current standings if im not mistaken:

Blood Vote:
(1) Pixar - Swang
(2) Traf - Sonic, Charle
(2) Charle - EW, Pixar
(2) Dega - Ragian, Strike

No vote: Votanic, Deg, Traf (funny thing is these 3 are also my 3 suspects, Votanic for pressing a random vote). And The Thing not voting early to not draw attention is exactly what i would have done if i was The Thing.

You said something interesting here. I think The thing wpuld not be the first to vote, so That almost rule out Swang, also maybe not the second one so not you. However waiting till to late could also draw attention as it has. I'm BTing Dega cause the reasons said above. But if the thing would want to blend in I think Chalre, Pixar, Ragian and Strike all make a good case.

Traf steering the BT away from him.. on Deg
And "Chalre, Pixar, Ragian and Strike" = 2 confirmed townies already..im pretty sure these 4 are all 4 town

Well, thanks Traf. Finally you posted something from your heart. And i believe you on this.

If i say something "certain" it is to have a bigger rub / scratch effect. But knowing there is another possibility..there are always lots of other possibilities.

Still i always explained why. And i liked the theory on you. Posting theories is half the fun, and it gets something going.

Admitedly it did get something going this time.

Then he went silent for weeks. But came back exactly at the moment the heat was forming on him again.

[degaston]

If Traf is The Thing this is his recruit list, Votanic is on there. Why is that? Is Votanic a mafia expert like EW or Strike?

I feel a BT on Pix is just to easy, would rather BT someone else

His famous "lets BT somebody else" without knowing who 'somebody else' should be. So what is he saying here? "would rather test somebody else" What does that mean? Think on it. It's a strategy. Traf is always calculated and here he is saying let's take a random guess but let's not take the random guess on Pixar..???

This is the kind of crap that makes me think you're just trying to flood the thread with noise instead of sincerely trying to find the recruiter.
That post was from D1. The thing had no "buddies". There's no particular reason for him to want to protect Pixar, other than maybe he thinks that's what he would do if he was town, in which case, it's just what he would do if he was town and it's not an indicator of anything.

[SoN!c]

I posted why at least 4 times. But i have a strong feeling you have only read 20% of all posts at most.

Do you? Im pretty sure you did not read everything Deg. Like half an eye on a good day.

[Ragian]

@Strike, cheers. And you can't respond to my convoluted question in my former post? If it doesn't make sense, then nevermind.

@Sonic, you're saying that Traf suggests no one elsetto BT D1, and then you quote me asking why he's going for EW and his response, which is that he found EW to be one of the skilled mafia players. That is sort of contradictory.

Apart from The Thing, neither of us had any clue apart from cleared Dega D1. Why would Traf have any insights at that point?

[Extreme Ways]

The more sonic posts the less I like to lynch traf because the points Sonic made are so... far off the line for a scumcase. I still heavily dislike Traf, but Sonic is oftentimes just grasping at straws.

[...] Where he leaves out important context in an attack to make it look like Traf said something he didn't and when called out on it, there's no "oops you're right I misread." Or anything like that. He just shifts the line of attack. Honestly, if it was anyone but Son!c this would be a bigger red flag.

this game wouldve been 3 pages shorter in that case.

[SoN!c]

Well we agree we disagree.

Its pretty obvious to me but im not gonna say "it's traf" for the 70th time..

[degaston]

I posted why at least 4 times. But i have a strong feeling you have only read 20% of all posts at most.

Do you? Im pretty sure you did not read everything Deg. Like half an eye on a good day.

The first time I asked, this was your non-responsive response:

Also, you seem to be pulling a lot of numbers out of your ass. What makes Traf 18%? What is your case on him at all?

You seem to forget your on 5 votes and i could hammer you any moment id liked for the past 48 hours deg. And that would influence traf too..

When I pointed out that you hadn't responded,

You said it's either Traf or me, but I was at BT-1, and you wouldn't switch your vote to me, even though your vote on Traf was going nowhere. Maybe you just didn't want to be blamed for a bad BT on me? You never did respond to my question about what your case on Traf was.

I got:

All i know is The Thing is laughing very hard atm.

Deg you missed quite a lot in your absense. You should have been here with the rest of town. You could have posted / discussed your idea's back then.. Now it's just more of the same circles and topics we already debated. You got BT for a good reason. If you were here that would not have happened we would not have wasted a BT on you.

Again, completely non-responsive.

I've pointed out where I asked. To save me from having to read through 8 pages of comments by you alone, could you point out where you've made your case for Traf?

[degaston]

Well we agree we disagree.

Its pretty obvious to me but im not gonna say "it's traf" for the 70th time..

Saying "It's Traf" over and over isn't helping.
WHY is it Traf?

[SoN!c]

Well we agree we disagree.

Its pretty obvious to me but im not gonna say "it's traf" for the 70th time..

Saying "It's Traf" over and over isn't helping.
WHY is it Traf?

Slapstick..just lynch me please. So you can see im Fucks, vanilla scientist and im outta this Legal Torture.

This is not about winning a game. This is about ego.

[degaston]

Well we agree we disagree.

Its pretty obvious to me but im not gonna say "it's traf" for the 70th time..

Saying "It's Traf" over and over isn't helping.
WHY is it Traf?

Slapstick..just lynch me please. So you can see im Fucks, vanilla scientist and im outta this Legal Torture.

You spend pages and pages filling up the thread with so much crap that it's difficult to make sense of anything you say, but you won't bother to summarize why you're so sure it's Traf?

Vote Sonic

[SoN!c]

Ill join you. I already posted it 70 times and every time i start to summarize you dont even bother to read it or think about it.

Vote son!c