The Thing TOWN WINS!

[SoN!c]

If you haven't steered BT day 1 and BT day 2 away from you, you would not have been in this situation..and Your "massive claim" D3 is just not Town Traf worthy, neither is presenting D4 hope to town. Its a Thing escape plan.. and saying you think im The Thing but not wanting any vig tonight - not even on me - while the vig has to reveal himself tomorrow (with a recruit counterclaim happening for sure if the vig has not been recruited tonight) is more then enough "proof" this can only be a Thing escape plan. What will the "massive claim" provide? NoThing.

And you just admitted you have no clue on how to find the Thing D3 :

"and when did I said we are gonna find the Thing D3?"

Not a clue big enough to justify no vig tonight that is

[Extreme Ways]

I'm changing my mind and going out on a limb and saying that Traf is not the recruiter. Can still be recruit, see also point 2

Traf is doing two things:
1) Providing his reads and gameplans for if/when he dies. Because he's most likely to be lynched rn, he's suggesting a vision of how to move forwards that makes sense. Whether to vig/not vig is ultimately a bit of a gut call: do we think that the odds of vig hitting his shot outweigh the downside of having to lynch recruiter if he misses? I think I disagree with Traf, but his reasoning is sound and that's important.
2) Traf is not steering this lynch too hard on someone else. This could be because his prime target (Sonic) is the recruiter, but a recruiter would always try to kill off a recruit and stay alive that way. Traf posts readlists, but hasn't changed his vote.

Maybe Traf is a recruit with a recruiter who is not very trusted, or maybe Trafs a townie who doesn't know who to try to pivot a lynch to seeing that the light push onto Sonic wasn't getting the most of traction. And also because Traf himself seems to... kinda trust Sonic's alignment to be town?

[SoN!c]

I don't agree with Traf either on this. I don't see any reason to adamantly push for a 'no vig'.
Vigging tonight might very well be a great idea... but of course that depends on who gets vigged, doesn't it?

I get that finding the recruiter would be better than finding the recruited... though finding any scum with more certainty, is better than acting on no real evidence.
In any case, it doesn't help for players who aren't actually proven town to keep adding themselves to the proven town list. So far strike, Trav, and Charle have all glibly announced they are above suspicion. Actually, it doesn't work that way...

Traf's no vig campaign does make him seem scummier... maybe...
.

+1

[Ragian]

I'm starting to not like the idea of lynching Traf. I agree with EW that Traf is trying to do all he can to (at least appear as if he is) securing a town win. I might be back to wanting to lynch whoever I think is the least helpful townie.

[strike wolf]

I'm going to pull back my former town read on Charle. In short, it was mostly based on a couple false assumptions that no longer seem to hold true and I'm now seeing a scenario where Charle is the Recruiter and Son!c is the recruit trying to be as loud as possible to distract town from looking away from him and Traf. Ultimately, it is still probably Son!c just being Son!c but the thought is now planted there.

[Ragian]

To be honest, I feel like Traf's latest posts ring town. For me, it's between Charle, EW, Swang, and Votanic (in alphabetical order). I'll cast a vote later today.

[SoN!c]

To be honest, I feel like Traf's latest posts ring town. For me, it's between Charle, EW, Swang, and Votanic (in alphabetical order). I'll cast a vote later today.

1) I don't think it's Votanic (the recruiter)
2) Ofcourse Traf's latest posts ring town. He wants to survive.. but looks at his shifting stories, he just adapts his story in order to steer everything away from him, then he gets very active - otherwise not
3) EW is my second candidate on the recruit list (next to Votanic). Ofcourse you can never be sure he is not The Thing..

But if he is the recruit im very sure Traf recruited him.

[Extreme Ways]

To be honest, I feel like Traf's latest posts ring town. For me, it's between Charle, EW, Swang, and Votanic (in alphabetical order). I'll cast a vote later today.

I'm not discounting a Sonic recruiter just yet. For me it's between Sonic, Charle, and Swang. Something about how hard Sonic is pushing, committed, and tunneled reads like he's afraid to change his read. I'm still playing with Traf/Sonic pair as well in my mind.

[Ragian]

Look, Sonic... I'm well aware of your view on Traf this game. I think that even the zeroes and ones of the CC platform know your standpoint. However, it's problematic that you storm in like a drunk uncle at a wedding every time that Traf says anything. To me, it obscures the game. Let's say that you're right about Traf. The tenacity and persistence of your attack on him blur that point. It ends up coming across as a schoolyard argument. You're making it hard to concentrate, mate.

I'm going back to see who snug in on the BT today to see if something stands out apart from what I already think is awful gameplay.

[Ragian]

Swang initiated the BT on me when the discussion was going stale. Charle was incredibly quick to get in on the action. It gets more interesting when EW limps in despitessaying that he doesn't think I'm The Thing. Votanic limps in shortly after. Both, I believe, while I'm away. Sonic then drops the hammer. All of them wasting a BT.

Swang is too aggressive to how I would play it. I'm discounting him right now. For the moment, I'm ignoringaanyone not in on the BT.

I'll take cases for Charle, EW, and Sonic under consideration if you would, please. I need other people's eyes on this.

I'm discounting Votanic because I'm the only one thinking he's counterproductive to an extent where it hurts town.

[SoN!c]

Look, Sonic... I'm well aware of your view on Traf this game. I think that even the zeroes and ones of the CC platform know your standpoint. However, it's problematic that you storm in like a drunk uncle at a wedding every time that Traf says anything. To me, it obscures the game. Let's say that you're right about Traf. The tenacity and persistence of your attack on him blur that point. It ends up coming across as a schoolyard argument. You're making it hard to concentrate, mate.

I'm going back to see who snug in on the BT today to see if something stands out apart from what I already think is awful gameplay.

No problem whatsoever. I can understand your point of view here.

[Extreme Ways]

Swang initiated the BT on me when the discussion was going stale. Charle was incredibly quick to get in on the action. It gets more interesting when EW limps in despitessaying that he doesn't think I'm The Thing. Votanic limps in shortly after. Both, I believe, while I'm away. Sonic then drops the hammer. All of them wasting a BT.

Swang is too aggressive to how I would play it. I'm discounting him right now. For the moment, I'm ignoringaanyone not in on the BT.

I'll take cases for Charle, EW, and Sonic under consideration if you would, please. I need other people's eyes on this.

I'm discounting Votanic because I'm the only one thinking he's counterproductive to an extent where it hurts town.

Easiest case for me is that I didnt hammer Traf when I could, and was the first to actually state that I think he's town.

I also disagree with swang fwiw, I think he's been passive in comments and only active in votes. He feels quiet coast-y

[strike wolf]

Swang was more active earlier today but it does seem like he's gone back to being quiet the last few pages. Damnit. Now I feel like *I'm* jumping all over the place.

[Votanic]

Swang initiated the BT on me when the discussion was going stale. Charle was incredibly quick to get in on the action. It gets more interesting when EW limps in despitessaying that he doesn't think I'm The Thing. Votanic limps in shortly after. Both, I believe, while I'm away. Sonic then drops the hammer. All of them wasting a BT.

Swang is too aggressive to how I would play it. I'm discounting him right now. For the moment, I'm ignoringaanyone not in on the BT.

I'll take cases for Charle, EW, and Sonic under consideration if you would, please. I need other people's eyes on this.

I'm discounting Votanic because I'm the only one thinking he's counterproductive to an extent where it hurts town.

Hold on, Ragian. I cannot speak for the other four players that held you down on the cold floor of that depressingly bleak Antarctic research station, slit a minor vein on your arm, and spilled some of your blood into a petri dish (ymmm, flavour) but I know why did it, bucko. You were trying to lynch me for talking about a movie...which looked super-scummy to me. You fully earned your BT scar.

Of course, as it turns out, you were just another know-nothing vanilla (?) townie, fabricating/hallucinating a bunch of BS...
No wonder you see nothing wrong with Sonic possibly going even farther down that same unproductive road.

Of course, I'm not sure you're vanilla, but yo' definitely ain't no detective.

[Ragian]

[Ragian]

I wanted to BT you, but when people went for me, I wanted a lynch in return. Didn't get it. Won't get it. I have moved on despite finding your play scummy in a non-committal way.

I realise that you have a hard time looking beyond your own nose, but I'm asking for cases on the ones mentioned. The only thing you're doing is trying to justify your own actions in a "he started it" fashion. Could you play ball, or are you going to stay in that corner?

[Votanic]

I wanted to BT you, but when people went for me, I wanted a lynch in return. Didn't get it. Won't get it. I have moved on despite finding your play scummy in a non-committal way.

I realise that you have a hard time looking beyond your own nose, but I'm asking for cases on the ones mentioned. The only thing you're doing is trying to justify your own actions in a "he started it" fashion. Could you play ball, or are you going to stay in that corner?

I have already given multiple insightful, read lists. Not incomplete, but targeted (and largely evidence-free) finger-points like some players, but analytical reads.
I will do so go again now. (Indeed, I out-did myself this time, I can only hope everybody appreciates this... )

Btw, I wish there was a 'draw' feature on the forums. I know it would soon get over-used and abused, but it would also be really helpful for whipping up x-y graphs and Venn diagrams.

= good townie or good at faking it... = Confirmed Townie (with issues...) = popular scum candidate, but it ain't necessarily so... quiet type... LOUD type

1. Pixar N1 Killed - Clark Vanilla
2. Extreme - He posts regularly, and gives analyses, none are particularly hostile, or memorable. After trying to process the drama of Sonic, Traf, and ragian posts, I kind-of shrug at EWs... Hmm, maybe that is the reaction he wants?
3. Traf Circumstances have made him a perennial suspect... and the strain has turned him into the anti-Sonic. Players (who act) wiser than me, often point fingers at him. They might be right! I said I might vote for him myself, and I mean it... but then again, the guy driving his bandwagon is Sonic (and formerly Ragian).
4. Dega , formerly Fairly quiet, His former BT remains a talking point. He also got sick of Sonic's antics, but was also fine with lynching traf which does come off as level-headed and reasonable to me... but he could be stealthy recruited scum. That possibility exists.
5. Ragian Town, Not recruiter... I'm not trying to feud with him, but in truth his randomish and changeable lists of good guys and bad guys aren't really extra insightful, just because he passed his BT.
6. Charle That post where he struck out on his own and said damn it all, lynch Traf! was refreshingly outspoken... and possibly scummy. See, see what happens when you say anything bold and assertive around here. Easy-going townie or stealthy scum. That is for each of us to decide...
7. Swang Very quiet. Pixar posts more and he's dead (that was a joke). His last two very short posts were five pages ago. He said no to BTing Sonic, but yes to vigging him ( ) He was also fine with lynching Traf or strike, hmm? His detachment means... scummy...? RL issues...? just 'over' this kooky game...? idk.
8. Sonic And again..., is he scum or does he just act that way? My vote is still on Sonic because he still seems like the closest thing to an evidence-based guess, but I don't know for sure. Slowly, we all are getting used to his 'style'... The irony is that he is now becoming more likely to be ignored than lynched. Perhaps that is just desserts for a bad townie, but it is also a face-palming victory for the wiliest of scum.
9. Strike Last read, I joked he was the unofficial mayor of town, but lately he to has been getting some flack too. Does this come from scummy (or misguided) attempts to push a perfect townie off his pedestal....or from the RL understanding that the worst vices will purposely hide behind the most virtuous facades. I mean in actuality, his reads aren't any more evidence-backed or consistent than anyone else's, are they? Is he Tom Hanks... or Bill Cosby??
10. Votan In truth, I am , but probably perceived as some mix of and Yes, I can engage in repeated, circular arguments based on mere conjecture and politics. I try to make it fun and interesting, but I don't really enjoy it. I want evidence, which usually only comes about when somebody is killed... or temporarily when they are blood-tested.
I know very little for certain, but if another bandwagon/randwagon rolls around, I just might jump on it, mostly out of sheer bored desperation at this point. I'm ready for this long day to be over.. .

[SoN!c]

I wanted to BT you, but when people went for me, I wanted a lynch in return. Didn't get it. Won't get it. I have moved on despite finding your play scummy in a non-committal way.

I realise that you have a hard time looking beyond your own nose, but I'm asking for cases on the ones mentioned. The only thing you're doing is trying to justify your own actions in a "he started it" fashion. Could you play ball, or are you going to stay in that corner?

I have already given multiple insightful, read lists. Not incomplete, but targeted (and largely evidence-free) finger-points like some players, but analytical reads.
I will do so go again now. (Indeed, I out-did myself this time, I can only hope everybody appreciates this... )

Btw, I wish there was a 'draw' feature on the forums. I know it would soon get over-used and abused, but it would also be really helpful for whipping up x-y graphs and Venn diagrams.

= good townie or good at faking it... = Confirmed Townie (with issues...) = popular scum candidate, but it ain't necessarily so... quiet type... LOUD type

1. Pixar N1 Killed - Clark Vanilla
2. Extreme - He posts regularly, and gives analyses, none are particularly hostile, or memorable. After trying to process the drama of Sonic, Traf, and ragian posts, I kind-of shrug at EWs... Hmm, maybe that is the reaction he wants?
3. Traf Circumstances have made him a perennial suspect... and the strain has turned him into the anti-Sonic. Players (who act) wiser than me, often point fingers at him. They might be right! I said I might vote for him myself, and I mean it... but then again, the guy driving his bandwagon is Sonic (and formerly Ragian).
4. Dega , formerly Fairly quiet, His former BT remains a talking point. He also got sick of Sonic's antics, but was also fine with lynching traf which does come off as level-headed and reasonable to me... but he could be stealthy recruited scum. That possibility exists.
5. Ragian Town, Not recruiter... I'm not trying to feud with him, but in truth his randomish and changeable lists of good guys and bad guys aren't really extra insightful, just because he passed his BT.
6. Charle That post where he struck out on his own and said damn it all, lynch Traf! was refreshingly outspoken... and possibly scummy. See, see what happens when you say anything bold and assertive around here. Easy-going townie or stealthy scum. That is for each of us to decide...
7. Swang Very quiet. Pixar posts more and he's dead (that was a joke). His last two very short posts were five pages ago. He said no to BTing Sonic, but yes to vigging him ( ) He was also fine with lynching Traf or strike, hmm? His detachment means... scummy...? RL issues...? just 'over' this kooky game...? idk.
8. Sonic And again..., is he scum or does he just act that way? My vote is still on Sonic because he still seems like the closest thing to an evidence-based guess, but I don't know for sure. Slowly, we all are getting used to his 'style'... The irony is that he is now becoming more likely to be ignored than lynched. Perhaps that is just desserts for a bad townie, but it is also a face-palming victory for the wiliest of scum.
9. Strike Last read, I joked he was the unofficial mayor of town, but lately he to has been getting some flack too. Does this come from scummy (or misguided) attempts to push a perfect townie off his pedestal....or from the RL understanding that the worst vices will purposely hide behind the most virtuous facades. I mean in actuality, his reads aren't any more evidence-backed or consistent than anyone else's, are they? Is he Tom Hanks... or Bill Cosby??
10. Votan In truth, I am , but probably perceived as some mix of and Yes, I can engage in repeated, circular arguments based on mere conjecture and politics. I try to make it fun and interesting, but I don't really enjoy it. I want evidence, which usually only comes about when somebody is killed... or temporarily when they are blood-tested.
I know very little for certain, but if another bandwagon/randwagon rolls around, I just might jump on it, mostly out of sheer bored desperation at this point. I'm ready for this long day to be over.. .

I get a good town read on this. Nice effort Vot! I understand it better now why your voting for me.

[Ragian]

I have already given multiple insightful, read lists. Not incomplete, but targeted (and largely evidence-free) finger-points like some players, but analytical reads.

[SoN!c]

I have already given multiple insightful, read lists. Not incomplete, but targeted (and largely evidence-free) finger-points like some players, but analytical reads.

Yes, true Ragian; but here he made a nice effort.

[Ragian]

I just love it that he is allowed to inflate to a point where hyperbole isn't even fitting. Contrast that with him taking offence the minute anyone claims that they're town.

Vote Strike

He says all the right things, he wants to structure D3 to an extent where he can get two townies for the price of one, and he has been careful with his voting. He seems to play this exactly like I would if I were The Thing.

[SoN!c]

I just love it that he is allowed to inflate to a point where hyperbole isn't even fitting. Contrast that with him taking offence the minute anyone claims that they're town.

Vote Strike

He says all the right things, he wants to structure D3 to an extent where he can get two townies for the price of one, and he has been careful with his voting. He seems to play this exactly like I would if I were The Thing.

Vote Strike

[Extreme Ways]

I've pondered over this and was hoping to see more people jump on responses. I'm not sure if Ragian is trying to elicit responses from prime suspects, but I'm the first to respond either way because two days is not a lot of time for multiple pivots and I dont want to panicvote.

I think a Strike lynch is a meh idea. I have said before that Strike was a prime recruit candidate because he had no heat on him and for that reason I think a BT on him tomorrow - pending lynch and vig result - would be a logical way to address his situation.

If we would be in lynch recruiter or lose, the BT might be better elsewhere. Otherwise, it would have been a good idea to BT strike because he has been a quiet towny constant. If he was recruiter, it's not a hassle. If he was the recruiter, big win.
----------------------------
Now by virtue of posting this, all of the above becomes insignificant because a recruiter reads along. But my TLDR is, I wouldnt mind a BT on strike for him to lead the day but I would mind a lynch on this day, I think. I'll vote with town though, not to worry there.

[SoN!c]

I agree but im gonna keep my word voting whatever Ragian decides.

"I've pondered over this and was hoping to see more people jump on responses."

Sorry m8 but you have not been "Sonic Pondering " over this.

You pondered too little, i've pondered too much. It is what it is. Thats life.

Lesson learned

Also, your on my 2nd position "recruited list"
So

Easiest case for me is that I didnt hammer Traf when I could, and was the first to actually state that I think he's town.

gives me a bad vibe

[Extreme Ways]

I agree but im gonna keep my word voting whatever Ragian decides.

"I've pondered over this and was hoping to see more people jump on responses."

Sorry m8 but you have not been "Sonic Pondering " over this.

You pondered too little, i've pondered too much. It is what it is. Thats life.

Lesson learned

Also, your on my 2nd position "recruited list"
So

Easiest case for me is that I didnt hammer Traf when I could, and was the first to actually state that I think he's town.

gives me a bad vibe

Well you pair me with Traf if he's recruiter, so that logic checks out from yuor pov.