halrob64 wrote:I thought we were not using outside sources for discussion or is it OK to use Google/Wiki etc?
hjelp wrote:also searching on Google traitor role maffia => In a Mafia-style game, the "traitor" is a neutral or Town role with a Mafia win condition, meaning they work for the Mafia and win if the Mafia wins, even if they are dead. They typically cannot communicate directly with the main Mafia faction but can act deceptively to harm the Town, similar to a bad Town member. Traitors are often kept secret from the Mafia to allow for deeper deception, as they don't have a Mafia faction-based role
It's no information about our gameplay. It's a general rule question. Can be stated by anyone.
So far I have been quick reading your posts, and seeing enough to confirm my suspicions of you, playing helpful to the undecided where you can and it doesn't damage your factions interests and potentially not a lot more.
Essentially I think we are both appealing to the undecided and not really each other.
But there is a possibility however slim that you are who you say you are so I promise that going forwards I will take more time in reading your posts, I owe that to town, and you will appreciate that whether town or mafia
Loose Canon wrote:Actually, and I'm possibly getting a bit ahead of myself here, as currently only I am voting extreme, but let me sound it out.
Ragian and sonic each have or at least had suspicions of each other. PERFECTLY UNDERSTANDABLE as a town version of each other.
Lynch extreme today and see he does indeed flip mafia. Sonic coin flips between protecting rag and protecting me tonight. Rag coin flips between protecting sonic and protecting who he feels of others most likely town tonight. It would I think flip what I think is extremes mafia strategy completely against him and his cohorts.
Fpd by hjelp And again - will read your postings Hjelp pinky promise
If Rag is protective then the only play we have is to guess who SK and mafia will try to kill tonight to counter. If needed a self protect should be an option too.
There's a mutual 50/50 self protect probability for you and rag built into my suggestion if you and rag became more comfortable with each other, which I think would happen with a successful mafia flipping lynch of extreme today
Loose Canon wrote:Actually, and I'm possibly getting a bit ahead of myself here, as currently only I am voting extreme, but let me sound it out.
Ragian and sonic each have or at least had suspicions of each other. PERFECTLY UNDERSTANDABLE as a town version of each other.
Lynch extreme today and see he does indeed flip mafia. Sonic coin flips between protecting rag and protecting me tonight. Rag coin flips between protecting sonic and protecting who he feels of others most likely town tonight. It would I think flip what I think is extremes mafia strategy completely against him and his cohorts.
Fpd by hjelp And again - will read your postings Hjelp pinky promise
If Rag is protective then the only play we have is to guess who SK and mafia will try to kill tonight to counter. If needed a self protect should be an option too.
Actually it'd be a bit more than 50/50 maybe 55%/55% mutual because of some deterrence effect, but not a great deal more than that because with a mafia lynched extreme, mafia would have to take more risk. Not sure about sk.
Loose Canon wrote:There's a mutual 50/50 self protect probability for you and rag built into my suggestion if you and rag became more comfortable with each other, which I think would happen with a successful mafia flipping lynch of extreme today
If i have to rely on Rag to come in and save me i'd better start writing an orbituary now. Im sure in that play & after im NK tonight i'll receive a postcard from Mafia HQ signed by Ragian. “Wish you were here, SoN!c! ”
We all should say out loud what we think. I think mafia is 1 mafia watcher, 1 mafia roleblocker and 1 goon but paranoia talking to me could be too by now.. Im sure if we go slow and discuss we will prevail. What im sure about is if EW flips scum i can't see Rag flipping scum too. It's one of the other IF one flips scum and Rag is the no brainer choice. Yes i need better answers from EW then "it's pure luck but i knew it i guess". When EW posted at the beginning of D2 he seemed very drunk and he never came clean on the "oops" part. He just ignored it.
Question number 3: EW is voting Kingm which is very "town confirming" play to me but only after the 2 unvotes he did so..why vote Kingm after waiting first on the unvotes? It just does not feel right. Like sommething is off. He should have been going for one of the other with clear mindset and clear motive. He placed a trap and Ragian was the catch. So kill it. Don't allow it to escape. But then after the catch he switched to kingm. Why? If you yust could have went for kingm from the start. If town why expose all the PR if your just gonna vote Kingm for his D1 play in the end?
The plan going forward is pretty simple but very effective: town needs to rotate around the most likely NK targets while trying to outthink scum. To succeed we need all town hands on deck.
SoN!c wrote:Question number 3: EW is voting Kingm which is very "town confirming" play to me but only after the 2 unvotes he did so..why vote Kingm after waiting first on the unvotes? It just does not feel right. Like sommething is off. He should have been going for one of the other with clear mindset and clear motive. He placed a trap and Ragian was the catch. So kill it. Don't allow it to escape. But then after the catch he switched to kingm. Why? If you yust could have went for kingm from the start. If town why expose all the PR if your just gonna vote Kingm for his D1 play in the end?
Because Kingm was on L-2 and I was giving them time to claim. The post we got afterwards was nothing that made me change my mind, but people were unvoting giving me room on the wagon.
I was clear from the getgo that I wanted Kingm over anyone else at some point.
Regarding my note towards the SK, that is solely if the SK is shooting within Ragian/Sonic. I do not feel like you are a Town Doctor with the knowledge that Ragian also visited Halrob. I do not believe you think there would be three protectives in this setup, and I am especially curious what the third protective would be. What role would Ragian be if you are Doc? Can't be Jailkeeper, I dont believe you believe in a double Doc world. So what protective role would Rag be? Bodyguard?
I feel like your pushes are inconsistent with the information you have from thread. If I am not mafia to you, then I think you should think Ragian is mafia. If I am mafia to you, I think you should fully trust Ragian.
You accept that Rag and I cannot be scum together, but you also consider a world in which we are Town together. I do not understand how you would get to that world. The moment you consider me to be not-scum, Ragian should jump to scum for you. And the other way around.
And yes I am tracker, and yes sometimes coincidences happen. Imagine there's a mafia roleblocker and a cop, as you think. Both of these roles would visit Halrob. The "luck" isnt in exactly having it correct that Ragian visited Halrob, the "luck" is that of the 9 remaining players, it was exactly Ragian who has a power role.
Perm 2 town from 2 protectives and 1 cop, with mafia ew lynched and night results and we have something to go on.
You've just brought into question whether you could be mafia with ew. I think I can see that as a possibility now.
One thing I'm sure (as sure as I can be) of is ew is mafia and so has to be lynched.
Fpd by sonic now gonna give this some time - saving as draft
And no rag I'm not switching to voting sonic today.
Case on ew is as clearcut as possible.
Fpd by ew.
Read ews post fully. Running confusion on who is most suspect. Possibly running it in conjunction with sonic given what I am about to post. EW must be lynched today
Yes it is improbable ew Your outing yourself and 50/50 another town pr stunk from a town ew perspective You had too much knowledge of rag and sonic before they revealed. Your play makes overwhelmingly most sense if you gained 2 pieces of prior knowledge which you would have as mafia and thought you could play town pr Vs town pr and so neutralise at least 1 of 2 very influential players. I did think both sonic and rag were likely town. You are having some success in running confusion.
Fpd by hjelp
I saved draft and logged out, came back and saw Hjelp had unvoted.
The running confusion is really working ew, gotta wonder if anyone is in it with you. Sticking with my vote. You are guilty ew. Fos sonic and hjelp
SoN!c wrote:Are you gonna go with my plan to win y/n is all i need to know.
Inadvertedly. I disagree with hunting SK. SK is trying just as much as we are to find out who is scum so they can play around it. It's not an easy catch. Furthermore, at this point we may need the sk for at least 1 more night to hunt mafia.
That being said, I already mentioned I dont like killing in the claimed PRs. Halrob can't be SK, the kill would have been roleblocked. You can't be SK, we had two kills. Ragian can't be SK, we had two kills. I can be SK in theory, a SK with an additional night action to track/watch.
So I will not hunt for SK specifically, but I will not mind if we hit it. I'm still looking for Mafia first and foremost.
I've sad that I have EW on my list 3rd normally. And I have no problem to upgrade again and vote EW. But as it is - you can't agree on which one to lynch. Therefore I wait. I'm not going to try and convince you to vote on Ragian. I have explained why I kept EW on my list 3rd. Page 24
hjelp wrote:This one is tricky ... maybe I can work it out ... I'm a newbie in Maffia games so I apologise.
EM provides an elegant solution. A choice between tracking Ragian or Son!c and a vote on Ragian or Son!c and a vote on Ragian or Kingma
I'm thinking - why follow Son!c and not Ragian?
Extreme Ways wrote: ... I thought Rag was town. I also thought Sonic was townish but after a recent game (offsite) where I tracked someone in my scumlist to nowhere - I decided to instead track people I'm not too sure are town ...
Changing a long proven? tactic - tracking someone in the scumlist. Why change tactic? If one as a townie in games tracking scumlist and then change to track not sure townies might be a result of being a Maffia or Associated instead of a townie as normal role. If one knows which one is mafia then there is no need to track the mafia. Therefore one tracks Son!c. Then why vote on Ragian and not on Son!c based on that Ragian is a Mafia? - Well, Son!c is point-target (possible doctor) which will likely kill Son!c during the night by the Mafia or SK. or as Maffia roleblocker then townies vote for a lynch (hopefully).
Moreover, a vote on Ragian is between Ragian and Kingm (and the strange claim that not being aware of the vote count)
Extreme Ways wrote: ... Ragian/Kingma is where i want to be looking atm but im not aware of the vote count and posting on mobile so voting ragian. ...
Kingma is the L-n leader so more likely to be lynched than Ragian so Ragian (as Maffia) will survive. And if Kingma is the SK ... the better. This is a good action for a Mafia or Associated.
That's why EW still will be third option on my list.
Hjelp it's everyone else who wants to lynch someone other than ew, or at least isn't joining the lynch on ew.
I can bring a horse to clean water, I cannot make it drink. But the fact I cannot make it drink the clean water, doesn't mean I shouldn't argue with people who want it to drink some alternative murky liquid instead. The best I can do is to argue with the people.
Sonic if you don't know whether town or mafia looks at who is browsing and sometimes brings that into arguments. A mafia sonic in cahoots with a mafia ew in mafia chat would have seen I was browsing when the exchange was happening which fpd me a number of times. So I logged out. When I logged back in you had unvoted. There will be 3 players in mafia chat. Had to Fos you too. Biggest Fos is on sonic for starting all this prioritise the sk stuff.
All said though I'm sticking with ew, others should join and stick.
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