Gen.LeeGettinhed - gross abuse and farming [closed]

[Lord Marshall]

I'd like to ask for a ruling on breaches actually, several of them. I'd like to request the mods lock this thread until the case is no longer pending as there are a few (At least two by my count) people who have flamed in this discussion, making points and accusations not at all relevant to the topic.

I am not attesting or protesting to the innocence or guilt of DH, this is clearly a descision that needs to be made by the admins.
However both DH and Bruce continue to post on here, the prior with definate flames and the latter with the same arguements over and over again.

Surely a heated (Although arguably legitimate) point being made repeatedly is flame if not spam as several repetitions of the point are not needed.

The moderators and admins will decide on this case without the repeated, illogical or logical inputs of this thread's regulars.

I think everyone should just wait for the verdict now as neither protesting against or attesting to DH's innocence is going to affect the descision made.

[stahrgazer]

LM, you make several valid points, but on one, I disagree...
New input from those who might otherwise be considered "victims" posted in defense of David would help the mods determine facts that, as several have indicated, are not available to gamechat. If, indeed, the majority of these newer players received tutorial help from David outside of gamechat, then the part of my original complaint about him perpetuating tactics that include "false luring" is lessened. So far, I've seen three come in to support, of the hundreds he's played, but as time goes on, he might be able to contact others, and if they are honorable, and if they believe he did, indeed, instruct a majority of those hundreds as he promised, then they'll most likely support him against this accusation.

He, and they, should have that opportunity; thus, I do not agree that this thread should be locked.

[Lord Marshall]

I hadn't considered that DH's alledged victims could use the thread to defend him, it's a valid and crucial point and one that causes me to recind my request to have the thread locked, however I think action needs to be taken if flaming, spamming and otherwise "Making the site a less pleasant place for others." Continues.

DH himself, innocent or otherwise of the thread topic has been warned for flaming due to comments in this very thread and yet I've seen him do precisely the same further on. Surely if he has a flame warning then persistance of this, especially in the same theatre as the original issue flame, should be further punished?

Also I re-iterate and stand by my point that several people, notably Brucewar continue to make the same, marginally valid point repeatedly and this, as well as being either flame, (If the point is deemed to be made as an attack) spam, (Which by definition is the repeated posting of the same thing, or generally making the site unpleasant for others (As frankly reading his repetitive slur has not been something I enjoyed nor particularly needed to see to understand this case.) needs to be dealt with too.

[KraphtOne]

i have played several games with and against DH. and i have not always been low-ranked. We won some team games together, and i have lost a few games to him as well, but i have also won a couple. and every time i had a question he answered it. DH, has helped me learn some things about the site and about some of the maps we have played on. And im glad that he is there to answer questions that i might have.

Gen.LeeGettinhed is 4-1 against you... the one loss being the only sequential game that you played and the only game you played on a non-complex map...

And he stalled when you were about to win...

The reason he stalls is because he does not want to lose points... So the argument that he's not point hoarding seems kinda silly...

But lemme know when you beat him again holly... chances are not good, as he will not be playing a sequential game on a straight forward map anytime soon...

Personally i don't have a problem with him playing whatever settings he wants... but to only play private games with his settings against people that have zero chance... that's a little shady to me...

[Bruceswar]

Sometimes I wonder if you really do read the rules....

"Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, holding players hostage, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts, systematically "farming" new recruits."

yes, Bruce, let's look at the bolded parts, as I've stated for you several times. Let's also look at what I accused: gross abuse and farming

The question remains, do David's tactics fall under gross abuse, which is not limited to farming?

This is the place to ask that question, or the mods would already have closed the question.

Nice of you to dodge that farming must have New Recruits as per CC rules. Nowhere does it mention any low ranks. BTW what is a low rank? Some people would consider you a low rank, some people consider SGT's low rankers. Who decides what is low and what is not? You cannot have gross abuse of farming when none(according to CC rules) is taking place. Like I said previously you want to change the farming rules take it to the proper forum.

[stahrgazer]

(not worth repeating his wrong argument, which misrepresents my accusation, for the whichevereth time)

The question remains, do David's tactics fall under gross abuse, which is not limited to farming?

This is the place to ask that question, or the mods would already have closed the question.[/quote]

[Bruceswar]

"This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, holding players hostage, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts, systematically "farming" new recruits."


Please tell me what you are accusing him of so we can be on the same page. I see him doing none of those things.

[stahrgazer]

gross abuse, which is not limited to those things, and/or farming... as stated in the topic, as stated in my o.p., as stated repeatedly with your every inquiry. Bruce, Bruce, Bruce, I really thought more highly of you.

[Bruceswar]

gross abuse, which is not limited to those things, and/or farming... as stated in the topic, as stated in my o.p., as stated repeatedly with your every inquiry. Bruce, Bruce, Bruce, I really thought more highly of you.

So you accuse him of farming but CC clearly states what he is doing is not farming. And Gross abuse of what? The game? Surely it cannot be farming as CC says it is not. Anyhow... I have said plenty and people know the rules. Obviously some fail, but that is another story.

[lord voldemort]

Sigh the back and forth repeated posts are too much. You have both made your point. Move on. We (as in c&a mods + admin) will discuss this and debate it and come to an agreement. Im sure the next time we step in here to tell you guys to cool off we will lock it down.

[stahrgazer]

Sigh the back and forth repeated posts are too much. You have both made your point. Move on. We (as in c&a mods + admin) will discuss this and debate it and come to an agreement. Im sure the next time we step in here to tell you guys to cool off we will lock it down.

Which is likely exactly what he's hoping for, LV, which is why he's parrotting hiimself.

[maasman]

In my opinion, this is not true farming. Yes, it is shady (from the information I've seen), but it is in no way farming, though I would put it under abuse. If he is indeed helping them in some way then I think he can continue, however if all that is happening is that he is getting points and leaving people in the dark then it probably should stop. I think that the people he has played be asked some questions about it, not every "low" rank on here is 13, I wager that a large number are thinking adults and can reason for themselves before joining a game, I mean you can't FORCE someone to join, only ask, if maybe in a very convincing way.

[Gen.LeeGettinhed]

oh my goodness people,

A lot of people here sound like old time religious zealots that killed people for saying that the Universe does not revolve around the sun, etc..or that the world WASN'T flat...or didn't want people of other races riding in the front of the bus-- or shouldn't play NCAA or Pro sports. Oh, and when Dick Fosbury (look it up) began flopping to Olympic records, did you argue against that? Jeez, was he STEALING gold medals fromothers? Again, awfully selfrighteous.

I think it's comical that someone with a burr up her saddle and not much better to do copies PAGES of notes from games and ASSUMES discussion didn't occur after the game in Live Chat PMs. To expect me or anyone else to go thru the reams of BS she's stacked, wow. But there are lots of people. ANd did you mention that I lost 4 games and 260 points in a few days -- all within 5-6 games? there is PLENTY of risk in what I do, I just try to manage it differently.
it's more comical that we've built up 8 pages -- and about half is Stahrs.

Remember, no one HAS to play, many come in LOOKING for a game and lots of times NO ONE joins them. So I give them a game. Hey, maybe like loaning money, I'm the Pawn Broker of CC, maybe low respect in your eyes, but SOME PEOPLE NEED A PAWN BROKER -- and many higher ranks WON"T play lower ranks due to the risk or like 24 hrs. I like faster games.

By the way:
- if Stahr KNEW Bruceswar and I would react those ways, hey by your LOGIC you BAITED us into honest tho possibly flamatory responses
- if ANYONE else that WAS a friend of mine thinks this is how you deal with friend, just say "bye" when I send a note... and oh, again, it's just OPINION, an really...only YOUR perspective.
- I think people should be LIMITED to their postings, jeez...you respond to every "ahem"
- I think if CC REALLY thinks there is ANY wrong doing, they should have the guts to briefly summarize them, PROVE what I did wrong that was Farming since prior warning THEN make a ruling. But I bet they won't
- whoever thinks I paid for premium is sadly mistaken. If I NEVER play higher ranks (majors,etc), then how did Lindax and I win the Moody freemi-premi tournament and get free premium.

[stahrgazer]

I think it's comical that someone with a burr up her saddle and not much better to do

No burr, just an observation of a questionable set of tactics. Questionable, so I questioned. Mods have decided the question has merit, so have decided to review whatever they'll review and make a decision.

[rdsrds2120]

- I doubt that he will ever be stopped from doing this officially, and no I do not agree with it. It is cheap tactics as someone of his rank and stature should probably be playing people his rank, instead he chooses ones that he feels he can beat. Although I doubt this can be considered a technical abuse of the game or officially farming, but I would definitely say it is UNofficial farming. I know DH and talk to him regularly and think he's an overall ok guy, but I do not agree with this one bit.

If he continues this he isn't only giving CC a bad image to those newcomers, sometimes I'm sure making them believe that they just aren't good at the game, but he is also making an image for himself as someone who won't bother to try and play many people who would be a challenge for him, and that he would rather just choose to take easy points. I think this may all be able to be dropped if he would also play more higher ranked players in addition to the games in discussion for his accused farming. New Recruits and Less Experienced players do need to gain experience, but I don't believe that one person should try and give them that systematically. Hopefully he will start playing many more players that are fun for him, and pose a challenge. This rather than just preying on the weak for easy points and providing a false self-image for himself.

Also, even though the inexperienced players CAN choose to willfully decline before the game starts, but it is again the demonstration and showmanship that had David proceed with the games that he knows he will almost always win. This isn't necessarily against the RULES, it is just cheap tactics. Any punishment of consequences that may or may not be given are all dependent on the interpretation of the rules of a moderator / administrator.

[Army of GOD]

I've got this wonderful mental image of David lurking outside a catholic girls school as the young ladies await their A level results. As the girls stream out of the school clutching their 4 grade A's (for everyone gets an 'A' now don't you know) out pops David from his modified Ford Escort with a bouquet of roses in one hand, a bottle of vodka in the other while wearing a T shirt saying 'Are you legal???'

With regards to the case, this isn't farming as the rule clearly states that farming only includes new recruits. So our hunters will have to decide whether to extend the farming rule to include continuously playing the low ranked/inexperienced. Looks like David is the test case. Well done that man! I've always wanted to be a test case for something over than a psychological disorder! Maybe one day I can be a CC test case! Woot!

LOLZ

Can I tattoo your name on my ass?

[rdsrds2120]

"This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, holding players hostage, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts, systematically "farming" new recruits."


Please tell me what you are accusing him of so we can be on the same page. I see him doing none of those things.

- It does say NOT LIMITED TO.

[Lord Marshall]

A lot of people here sound like old time religious zealots that killed people for saying that the Universe does not revolve around the sun, etc..or that the world WASN'T flat...or didn't want people of other races riding in the front of the bus-- or shouldn't play NCAA or Pro sports. Oh, and when Dick Fosbury (look it up) began flopping to Olympic records, did you argue against that? Jeez, was he STEALING gold medals fromothers? Again, awfully selfrighteous.

David I fail to see how any of this paragraph is relevant and its not the first time I've seen this kind of thing from you, you have a flame warning already don't you? From this very thread! Make your points without having to stick in your ten cents worth of insulting rubbish please.

[Gen.LeeGettinhed]

CC admin AND players:

Lord,
They are called "analogies" (look them up). Many educated people use them to give "an example" of similar things. I don't think there's anything FLAMING about it. I merely point out that zealots often ruin many things.

CC Admin:
Below is selected exerpts from conversation today in Live Chat Social. After Muktuklou and I talked, I heard he was from Alaska I asked HIS opinion of Sarah Palin. So Stahr jumps in with her political BS and begins making accusations as to WHY I and others use Firefox:
10:52:57 ‹stahrgazer› David, and many, like Firefox for CC because you can get special addons that help with game play
10:58:03 ‹stahrgazer› one of them enables you to "see" through fog of war, to know if an opponent is getting a bonus
10:54:14 ‹stahrgazer› one enables you to check your rank or others' ranks on various maps
10:55:46 ‹Gen.LeeGettinhed› stahr, you ASSUME why I use Firefox...wrong again
10:55:57 ‹stahrgazer› no, David, you assume I assume
10:58:03 ‹stahrgazer› one of them enables you to "see" through fog of war, to know if an opponent is getting a bonus

I was introduced to Firefox BECAUSE IT FORMATS DATA BETTER, refreshes faster, less scrolling, better PMing, etc. -- NOT because of tools to play better. I saw some, used some, but never figured out Clickable maps and NEVER heard of seeing thru fog. My point is She is AWFULLY assuming, disparaging and flaming in those comment -- much like the whole file here.

[Lord Marshall]

Lord,
They are called "analogies" (look them up). Many educated people use them to give "an example" of similar things. I don't think there's anything FLAMING about it. I merely point out that zealots often ruin many things.

Don't patronise me. This paragraph alone as breaking CC rules as was the previously qouted one. Get off your high horse pal because I won't stand for being belittled by you nor will I flame you back ,I'll simply report you if you continue.

[king sam]

this is locked.

we let this go to peak conversation through the community, and when it started getting a lil flamey we gave a complimentary warning, when it continued DH you got Warned, since then it hasn't gotten to the point of name calling and obvious flaming again but its getting there.

Plus nothing new is being added to this conversation. Locked until we have our decision.

P.S. Their is nothing wrong with starh's text that you quoted from live chat. Sounded to me she was labeling the advantage one could get from using the browser Firefox, and merely stated that you used it. Tempers are flaring here, it might be best for everyone to step back from this and cool down. At least until the decision is out then I'm sure we will go to page 9-15 in here.

King Sam

[king achilles]

After taking your opinions about this case, and evaluating this further with the other C&A moderators and admins, we have come to a decision that Gen.LeeGettinhed, as far as inviting and playing low ranked players, is not in violation of our current rules. What he may be guilty of is poor play, shady act, fishy, malicious play, etc. but regarding our farming rule, it clearly refers to new recruits and not low ranked players:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=73745

As for the possibility that this falls under our Unwritten Rules, as what I have stated above, Gen.LeeGettinhed's 'tactics', if I may call it, is more like an example of poor play, be it spiteful or disgusting even for some, but it is not against the farming rule or abusive to the game.

One way or the other, everyone will have a chance to play on a map they are not familiar with.

Perhaps you can compare this with people who have benefited with the "freestyle double-turn". It was not meant to be like that and should not but it was there and it was up to you if you wanted to make use of it to put you in an advantage in order to win games even if it was not in the "spirit" of playing freestyle games.

If you wish to suggest a precedent regarding low ranked players or amend our current conditions about the farming rule, feel free to make a suggestion in our Suggestions & Bug Reports Forum at:

viewforum.php?f=4