And so the Cheating Continues [block]

[Bruceswar]

Soo you can look at stats and determine that? Did any of the mods care to watch a game? I am guessing not. hmm LAME

[JOHNNYROCKET24]

well until Scott finds some more partners in 8 player games, I dont see him returning to the top any time soon.

[laddida]

He never cared about being back ontop again. He even told me after he reached it he can finally relax and try new aspects of the game, which no doubt would hurt his points. Maybe you should look at after he was conquerer what type of games hes played instead of if bruce was around or not. Twill Re read yourself what you just wrote. No evidence is no evidence yet you give out the same punishment? Twill common what sucks the most is theres no reasoning with you. Again this shows how this thread is abused by whiney little bitches for hatred. And you let them get away with that and punish people for doing absolutly nothing. If anything max should be punished for harrasment. If you enter most of the games scotts in im sure you would see max in there bitching in 80% of them. Anyways Twill i think you ban without thinking of the consequences and the toll it takes on the player who has done nothing wrong theres no fixing the tarnishment and embaressment it brings to them. Especially here since you said there is no evidence of cheating yourself.

[Mr Changsha]

Been following this story...

If Scottland is as good as he is supposed to be, he will have no trouble getting back up to the top.

If he has been cheating in the way suggested it is bloody awful play. The problem with this decision is that most players will see the result and assume that something has been going on, when in fact it may just be one of those things that happen. I have no idea which, Twill seems to have no idea either, but the block is suggestive, however Twill portrays it.

As I said, a shame if he (and Bruceswar) are genuinely innocent.

[Bruceswar]

Here is a bit of info I just sent to Twill...

Scott-land vs me 123/279 44% Overall 442/1311 32%

Poo-maker vs me 20/43 47% Overall 61/165 37%

RashidJelzin 13/31 42% Overall 88/198 46%

fantasianasian 10/28 36% Overall 82/232 35%

Prankcall 15/69 22% Overall 261/790 33%

FabledIntegral 17/53 32% Overall 82/221 37%

DAT_WHAT_SHE_SAID 7/52 13% Overall 33/228 14%

KingOfGods 7/19 37% Overall 97/261 37%

maxatstuy 0/0 0% Overall 0/1 0%

JOHNNYROCKET24 0/2 0% Overall 0/6 0%



Few points to note..

Highest difference in win percentage is poo-maker at 10% down -- Styles make matchups

max and johnny have a combined win percentage of 0% - Yet max claims to know it all. Johnny just likes to bust people. Neither can play this style and be good at it, by the stats...

Many of these players are well over the 12.5% which is 100%/8 players. This goes to tell me that this is more a skill game than many think. RashidJelzin is a 46% winner overall. <-- That would be decent for 1 vs 1 games, but 8 man games! WOW!

The only player by the numbers who does not do well against me is Prankcall. He does better when I am not in the lineup. All of the rest either do better or are about the same.

You see that numbers can be made to look anyway possible. Using the logic of Twill in his verdict, I am cheating, with Fanta, Poo, and Scott. All 3 of them saw drops in their win percentages overall.

[Seulessliathan]

Lets not focus on maxastuy and his record and concentrate on the fact that Scott-land has a big record of people in 8 player speed games assisting him in getting a win, which is in direct violation of CC rules.

but why would scott cheat? hes really good.

Because he isnt really good when bruce is not there throwing him the games; which is why scott doesnt do well when hes not playing with bruce; which is why scott deranked 2000 points when bruce left for two weeks and started to gain points when bruce came back; which is why scott won 3700 points by playing games with bruce; which is why scott is a cheat.

Scott deranked because he tried new maps and settings, he played Waterloo team games with me and stuff like that. Seriously, when you reached Conquerer, there is no other goal to reach .... you have done it .... So why should he cheat now?
Twill said there is no proof for a cheat here, so i don´t know why they are blocked from each other. Everybody who has played with Scott frequently knows that he is an amazing player and doesn´t need to cheat. He has won enough games without Bruce to show that he has skill to be Conquerer without any cheat.
Yes, Scott won a lot of points when he played against Bruce .... and less against others .... but as Twill said, it´s a "statistically significant variation" what does that mean? if i join 5 games against Twill and lose all, will he be a cheater? Many people have checked the game logs , watched the games etc, and Twill said: "This is NOT proof or a decision that either of these two are cheating"

if it´s not proofed, why bust them? Now people will start searching who won how many games against whom, and if they find a "statistically significant variation" , they will accuse people of cheating, just because they don´t like them.

IMO nobody should be busted without a proof.

[Bruceswar]

That is what said Twill said. "NO PROOF" I cannot see how they can make any block based on a map rank number. I do not see how you can block someone without any evidence. Not to say this true at all, because it is not. This reminds me of a lynching.. hmm

[RashidJelzin]

This is NOT proof or a decision that either of these two are cheating, it IS a precautionary measure in case anything is going on.

Pathetic. Precautinary measure would be observing a couple of games, not handing out random punishment because of numbers spit out by a petty and rejected kid (no, I'm not referring to his family, but his former puppy-dog adoration for Scott until he was told off). Before max will start rambling about people flaming him; take a look at the numbers Bruce had against other top players... (woops, I hope I don't get others blocked now.)
Ridiculous ruling.

[laddida]

Seul is right this can and will open up a whole new venue of people who can be accused of cheating just because their might be some beef with one or another. Just look up who scores more points with who in a game and ban them. Sounds logical to me.... Twill stop ruining the sight please, i cant even find the words to describe how incredably stupid and based off of nothing this all is.

[e_i_pi]

You see that numbers can be made to look anyway possible...

I haven't taken part in this debate at all, and been quite happy to keep out of it, but like Robinette with pictures, as soon as numbers are mentioned I take an interest.

I think this may have been the sort of thing that came up on Twills radar:

Code: Select all

Scott-Land points gained from 8 player Standard Escalating games

S+B = Games with Scott-Land and Bruceswar
S-B = Games with Scott-Land, but without Bruceswar

        Played    Won     Points    Win%    Points Per Game
TOTAL   1392      453      4854     33%       3.49
S+B     284       126      3741     44%       13.17
S-B     1108      327      1113     30%       1.00

I haven't looked at this until now. I have nothing against Bruceswar or Scott-Land, but I have to say, if I was running the site, this would certainly ring alarm bells with me. It's a block. Sure, it doesn't reflect well, but it's better than a points reset or loss of premium.

[Bruceswar]

Pi using your logic.. Run poo-maker'ss numbers as well...

61/165 +510 total 3.09 points a game

20/43 +539 when I play with poo... 12.5 points a game

41/122 -29 when I do not play with poo... -.23 points a game


I guess by those numbers I must be cheating as well with poo...

[e_i_pi]

Pi using your logic.. Run poo-maker'ss numbers as well...

61/165 +510 total 3.09 points a game

20/43 +539 when I play with poo... 12.5 points a game

41/122 -29 when I do not play with poo... -.23 points a game


I guess by those numbers I must be cheating as well with poo...

Firstly, a set of 165 games is not of the same calibre as a set of 1392 games. Secondly, I was just looking at the numbers, I'm not taking one side or another. The numbers do look aberrant to me, but I'm neutral in this fallout

[maxatstuy]

Is it time to add scott to the wall of shame JR24?

[Bruceswar]

But the results are similar. All I am saying is numbers can look any way you want them to look. With Physics you can make the numbers so it tells me a flower will hold an elephant. We all know this not to be true. I know you are not taking sides, but the fact I have played X amount of games with someone should have no barring on the issue. As stated above.. styles make match-ups.

[maxatstuy]

Lets not focus on maxastuy and his record and concentrate on the fact that Scott-land has a big record of people in 8 player speed games assisting him in getting a win, which is in direct violation of CC rules.

but why would scott cheat? hes really good.

Because he isnt really good when bruce is not there throwing him the games; which is why scott doesnt do well when hes not playing with bruce; which is why scott deranked 2000 points when bruce left for two weeks and started to gain points when bruce came back; which is why scott won 3700 points by playing games with bruce; which is why scott is a cheat.

Scott deranked because he tried new maps and settings, he played Waterloo team games with me and stuff like that. Seriously, when you reached Conqueror, there is no other goal to reach .... you have done it .... So why should he cheat now?
Twill said there is no proof for a cheat here, so i dont know why they are blocked from each other. Everybody who has played with Scott frequently knows that he is an amazing player and doesnt need to cheat. He has won enough games without Bruce to show that he has skill to be Conqueror without any cheat.
Yes, Scott won a lot of points when he played against Bruce .... and less against others .... but as Twill said, it´s a "statistically significant variation" what does that mean? if i join 5 games against Twill and lose all, will he be a cheater? Many people have checked the game logs , watched the games etc, and Twill said: "This is NOT proof or a decision that either of these two are cheating"

if it´s not proofed, why bust them? Now people will start searching who won how many games against whom, and if they find a "statistically significant variation" , they will accuse people of cheating, just because they don´t like them.

IMO nobody should be busted without a proof.

About 30 people are blocked because I have a couple of their passwords while none of their accounts were ever abused...there is statistical evidence to support that bruce has been throwing scott games; that is more evidence of their cheating then the reason for my block.

Meanwhile, I was busted (premium stripped) for non-existant reasons which were never disclosed. While I agree that no one should be busted without proof, I find this decision far more logical and rational then many of the other decisions made by Twill.

[White Moose]

I'm looking forward to the appeal. Becuase the only reason this block were set was becuase the numbers look fishy, and by Bruce's good research, then he must be cheating with PooMaker aswell. But what both i, and the fact that both PooMaker and Scott-Land made Conqueror, think is that Scott-Land and PooMaker is just 2 of the best players there is here on ConquerClub.

[Prankcall]

Bruce would you shut the hell up?!I have watched and played numerous games with and against you 2.Finally a correct decision was made.Sure Scott is a great player(one of the best) no-one is arguing this.Is Scott a 5500 or 5000 player?! Well we will now see won't we?! Case closed move on.

[JOHNNYROCKET24]

I have experienced first hand the BS within a game with Bruce and Scott so I say it serves them right. Mostly Bruce. I told you Bruce your BS would could back to haunt you. Teaming together so 1 player could obtain points in games is rediculous in my book. Atleast the chronic crying from Scott everytime you attack him I could deal with, but to throw the game on purpose allowing Scott to win is cheating.

[codeblue1018]

Wow, I never thought I'd read something like this - priceless,

Who will be next? Odds anyone?

BTW JR, I hope your head isn't too inflated with the rank of your PSU Lions. If they play in the BCS, they will get absolutely crushed as I am sure you'd agree. GL nonetheless! No need to comment on the Wolves; it's a transition year,

[FabledIntegral]

Scott isn't the only one that "cries" in these games. Nearly every high rank does. I do it more than Scott. Trying to say that is convincing other people not to attack you so you win is different than someone railing on another for making a dumbfuck move and then foeing them after.

[Prankcall]

Like most stated Scott is a great freestyle player one of the best no doubt.We will now see his true level though.

[DAT_WAT_SHE_SAID]

This is fucking bullshit--how much is max paying you twill??
Scott is an extemely good player, the best at 8 player escalating games.
Scott beats me 41% of the time--so wat, im going to be accused next??!!
He has had a huge winning rate lately, something like 21 out of the last 41 eight player games, WITHOUT BRUCE!!
I no the real reason why Scott dropped down to brigadier lately, technical problems.

As for the ruling itself, I totally agree with Rash. To block somebody as a precautionary measure?thats bullshit! You should have found a better way to sort it out...

The only thing that this whole thread has proved is that anybody in conquer club that is a clean player can still be accused of cheating and get blocks and bans.

Rediculas...

[dandrobie]

King and FP asked me to look into this case.

There is no direct evidence that there is any cheating going on, but there is a statistically significant variation between when bruce is and is not in games with scott.

As such, we are taking the precaution of blocking scott-land and brucewar.

This is NOT proof or a decision that either of these two are cheating, it IS a precautionary measure in case anything is going on.

Case closed, moved.

Twill

Frankly it has been some time since i played with Scott in a 8 player speed esc game, main reason is i know i cant beat him and there is always some noob doing ridiculous attacks (i was once one of them and get him noted , but i retracted my case as i started to get to understand the basics of the game)

But i guess by having such a verdict irregardless of what u said that "this is not proof or decision" is pretty pointless. Cause as far as i'm concerned, anything except "cleared" means they are still guilty in one way or another..

Mmmm... It'll be a shame though if Scott is going to be removed from whatever list JR is keeping track of and also it'll be quite tough for Scott to play 8 man esc speed games if more of such accusations is up and more ppl are being blocked from him.

[Tisha]

Like most stated Scott is a great freestyle player one of the best no doubt.We will now see his true level though.

Scott has won 13 out of the last 22 8 man freestyle games he has played without Bruce in the lineup ...the numbers don't lie Prankcall

[GrimReaper.]

innoncen until proven guilty and this case has been provin gulity time and time again...