[Abandoned] - Conquer Mart!

[lzrman]

Click image to enlarge.

Updates:
Background on both Outside of Map and Inside Floor
Added Impassable Borders
Added Gradient Paths
Removed a Cart and Dude
Added Dark Black Background on Top behind Legend

[a.sub]

[shakeycat]

At first glance, I think they're portals, not impassibles. It still doesn't make sense why they would be blocked off.

If anything, it should be aisles that we own, each blocked off by racks on each side. They intersect with other aisles and walkways and off you go.

I'm thinking something that plays like this:



See, Utensils and Bath aisles can only attack one another through the Housewares 1 or 2 pathway. And the central path would allow access to other sections, beyond more natural rack-barriers.

[Merciless Wong]

I hate the little men ...demonstrating how moderator subjectivity can pass one thing in one map and block another.

Secondly this has risk of ending up with the classic art problem... why is this a battle? Do you feel cool invading the register from beds?

You need to write down for all of your continents the terits, the number of spots to defend and the bonus... you'll see very quickly
that the edge continents have almost the same number of defense points as the center continents but smaller bonuses.
Suprisingly enough, this map would suggest you target the center.

[groovysmurf]

That's a great idea!

[sailorseal]

I see most of the action on this map being played around the edge. I would remove the impassible wall, altogether because territories that can't touch, don't touch. Center bonuses will be really hard to hold. Also I like the idea of an objective, maybe you need to buy X, Y, Z, D, all registers and the exit to win?
Great Map!

[ustus]

First: I agree with Sailor, take out the impassible. He's right, what it blocks wasn't bordering in the first place. If you really feel it's confusing, put "Aisles only passable where bridged" or some such somewhere on the map.

Second: I'm with Wong: the little stick people seem.... tacky? no that's an exaggeration... extraneous to me. They don't really add to the graphics, and they have nothing to do with the game play. I like the shopping cart idea, have a couple sitting around, but the store is viewed top down, so having side view people really seems like you're stretching some point. (though I'm not sure what he means by his comment about moderator subjectivity...)

third: interesting:

I see most of the action on this map being played around the edge.

this map would suggest you target the center.

I think maybe some players will target the outside and some the inside..... Personally, i think there is a little too much difference in reinforcements for the difference in defensibility, but meh they're pretty close either way. I'd probably start in one corner and try to take an edge or two and then a center, but that's just me (and maybe the reason I'm a cook now, too... )...

fourth: I just want to put a plug in for purely classic game play, you don't need an objective (can you tell what kinds of maps I like to play )

fifth: Why haven't I commented before now?? I remember seeing this in the ideas sub-forum and thinking, hey, that could be neat... looks like you're making progress, don't give up on it!

[Merciless Wong]

Just a point - The top right center department look like it has few terits, few to defend and a +4 bonus... I think you need to rethink bonuses.

[Skitzobarber12]

Shouldn't beauty be worth 5? Beauty has 5 ways in. You can't even put a man down for every way in it has, so it would be better NOT to take it. And then appliances with only 4 ways in gets 5 men just cause it has an extra territory (not another way in)

[Teflon Kris]

Gameplay
I'm tasked with making sure your gameplay works well and will satisfy the game-playing community.

Nice concept for your map - puts it out there on its own. I quite like the idea of major battles in a department store.

Of the gameplay points already raised I would pick out two that are most significant:
1. If you look back to oak's point on a previous page - the layout doesn't mirror what we might find in real life and it doesn't make sense that the aisles are impassable. I think there might be a fix for this though if you went with having doors etc (maybe something like the rooms and hallways in Forbidden City). You will probably have a better idea yourself. Or maybe you might have a convincing argument that the community wouldn't find the layout strange. You have plenty of supporters for your concept so you may be able to satisfy more of the community without major overhaul.

2. As for bonuses, I've not yet studied in detail but I think you will need some adjustments as a few people have mentioned. I will get back to you on that when I have analysed properly.

You have pretty-much classic gameplay with the feature of the registers. You might consider expanding on that feature slightly although I don't feel it is really necessary as the setting of your map is a significant unique feature.

Anyway, I will have a closer look over the next couple of days and help as best I can.

[reggie_mac]

third: interesting:

I see most of the action on this map being played around the edge.

this map would suggest you target the center.

I think maybe some players will target the outside and some the inside..... Personally, i think there is a little too much difference in reinforcements for the difference in defensibility, but meh they're pretty close either way. I'd probably start in one corner and try to take an edge or two and then a center, but that's just me (and maybe the reason I'm a cook now, too... )...

guess that means it got some reasonable balance to it if different people are seeing that .. good job.

[Teflon Kris]

Bonus Values
Looking at the values in detail I would suggest the following:

Higher bonus areas for some of the regions with a register:
Furniture 5, Beauty 5 (they both have many connections and points to defend)

A slightly lower bonus for Children's Wear (3) as there are only 2 territories to defend.

A higher bonus for the Services - just as hard to hold as Children's Wear (possibly harder with 3 territories to defend)

An increase for MensWear (4) - it is similar to Womenswear in its connections (barely any easier to hold).

Number of Territories
With 43 territories you have a pretty much ideal number so that players going first dont have too great an advantage.

Landing a bonus on the drop
You have two 3-territory regions which means that, now and again, players may get these bonus areas to start. As there are 43 territories in all, this wont happen too often, and certainly not to the extent of a map such as Luxembourg.

It is something worth thinking about and there are tricks to avoid it happening if you wish. Considering Luxembourg is a popular map with many players despite the regularity of unfair drops, you do not need to be overly concerned.

Impassables
Further to my last post - perhaps you may wish to consider that between the departments you could have aisles and ecalators connecting, using up much of the space that would normally be accessible in the real world. Service areas may use up some other space too. Just an idea.

[lzrman]

Click image to enlarge.

Update: May 2 / 2009
- Removed Impassibles
- Removed Previous Dept Connectors
- Added Passable Aisles 1 to 10
- Updated Bonus
- Men's from 3 to 4
- Service from 2 to 3
- Furniture from 4 to 5
- Children from 4 to 3
- Beauty from 4 to 5

[a.sub]

huge jump in gameplay!
this completely changes teh strategy
but i think the aisles should be only rows
not Ts or Ls

[lzrman]

huge jump in gameplay!
this completely changes teh strategy
but i think the aisles should be only rows
not Ts or Ls

I Agree! Big Jump in game play because now you have more ways to attack from different Territories.

Making the Aisles Completely rows? would just add crossability, but with T's and L's you can move faster do the bottom, changing the gameplay.

[shakeycat]

{nevermind!}

[a.sub]

huge jump in gameplay!
this completely changes teh strategy
but i think the aisles should be only rows
not Ts or Ls

I Agree! Big Jump in game play because now you have more ways to attack from different Territories.

Making the Aisles Completely rows? would just add crossability, but with T's and L's you can move faster do the bottom, changing the gameplay.

true true
when this is quenched i see a lot of fun ass games ahead

[LED ZEPPELINER]

i just realized that this could have been a great objective map, like you have a shopping list, and you have to hold all of the departments where those items would be, and the checkout

[gimil]

Hi lzrman,

I have a few things to critique today but I will stick with my major concern first before I move onto the smaller isses. My main issue is the background texture. It seems like some pretty plain gravel. What I think would be better and help your map explode with athetical pleasure (kinky) is if you drew in a car park (parking lot is what the yanks call it I think ) and some little care, patches of grass, people walking about outside.

What do you think?

[gimil]

...Also the CC star in your title can be made better by using the actual font used in the site header. All you need to do is use a font called wingdings and copy and paste the following greek (I think) symbol:

µ

[lzrman]

Hi lzrman,

I have a few things to critique today but I will stick with my major concern first before I move onto the smaller isses. My main issue is the background texture. It seems like some pretty plain gravel. What I think would be better and help your map explode with athetical pleasure (kinky) is if you drew in a car park (parking lot is what the yanks call it I think ) and some little care, patches of grass, people walking about outside.

What do you think?

I'll give it a try, I took a physical picture of the road outside gonna give it a go.
*aesthetical

...Also the CC star in your title can be made better by using the actual font used in the site header. All you need to do is use a font called wingdings and copy and paste the following greek (I think) symbol:

µ

I'll play with that toO!

[Teflon Kris]

The layout is a bit more real without the impassables although its not too clear if the light grey sections connect - meaning the aisles are impassables?

I'm wondering if the connectors could be the larger areas - with small impassables - although for that to work you would need doors or something similar to show which terrs each aisle connects to. I'm guessing it could be done without too much major change. As it is,if the dark grey part of the aisles are impassable it would still seem strange that the aisles are mainly inaccesible.

Perhaps worth thinking about and discussing the connections /aisles a little more before changing these - I am conscious that you could keep changing and re-changing which could get frustrating.

Great to see your enthusiasm and quick updates.

[lzrman]

The layout is a bit more real without the impassables although its not too clear if the light grey sections connect - meaning the aisles are impassables?

I'm wondering if the connectors could be the larger areas - with small impassables - although for that to work you would need doors or something similar to show which terrs each aisle connects to. I'm guessing it could be done without too much major change. As it is,if the dark grey part of the aisles are impassable it would still seem strange that the aisles are mainly inaccesible.

Perhaps worth thinking about and discussing the connections /aisles a little more before changing these - I am conscious that you could keep changing and re-changing which could get frustrating.

Great to see your enthusiasm and quick updates.

You can attack a Neighboring Territory if it touches the Aisle that takes you to the Other Territory, this is the main point of the Aisle System. To Attack through the Aisle to the Territory that it touches.

Dresswear Attacks Vacuums through Aisle 9 as it touches.

The reason I broke up the Aisles is so that All Territories can't Attack All Other Territories

[mibi]

This map looks pretty boring, though that may fit the theme. Not sure what to do cept overhaul it or start over and add some interest, detail, or something besides a series of boxes.

[shakeycat]

I'm really in mibi's camp. It will need a complete redraw at some point. New graphics, crisp clean vectors, and a pleasing colour scheme. No amount of new parking lots or odd connections will save it.