1982 [Quenched]

[natty dread]

get photoshop it's better

That's debatable.

Well, I tried it and apparently the psd doesn't open very well in GIMP - the whole frame is white when I open the PSD in gimp. But, koontz, if you really want to use that psd file, I can open it in PSE (which is a crappy version of PS so I don't usually use it since GIMP is better) and try to convert it to a gimp xcf file.

[koontz1973]

Thanks DiM. Think I managed to replicate it a different way. As I said, I do not want it as dark as your image, but it is coming along.

you have 3 adjustment layers in the psd file. hide them and the image will be much lighter.

Koontz is using Gimp, and gimp doesn't have adjustment layers. I don't know how exactly gimp reads adjustment layers in psd files, possibly they get applied on actual layers or ignored alltogether.

get photoshop it's better and it can also be free

I have PS and can get the files out one by one. I think. When these two maps are done and dusted, going to go away for a couple of months and watch a lot tutorials and try to get PS up and running.

[koontz1973]

Before this turns into a what programme is better thread (again), any chance of a look over the map. Any more changes you want seeing to as I am now satisfied.

[DiM]

get photoshop it's better

That's debatable.

i'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong

anyway, koonts, from what i remember since the days i used gimp and from what i read on the internet, gimp should be able to replicate the layer styles i used in the psd files so maybe you could simply open both photoshop and gimp and just copy the settings from one to another.

[natty dread]

Before this turns into a what programme is better thread (again), any chance of a look over the map. Any more changes you want seeing to as I am now satisfied.

Oh yes. I can think of a few things.

- The white glows around the territory labels, also the grey glows on some... they would look better if you smooth them over a bit. Blur the glows with a gaussian blur of 2-4px radius.

- As for the frame... the rims between the monitors, in the legend, look a bit too thin at some places... it seems like on a real panel the monitors wouldn't be that close to each other. There's 3 vertical rims between monitors, not counting the ones on the edges, so if you widen all of those by 5 px each, you'd only have to increase the width of the image by 15 px. The same for the horizontal ones, except there's only 2 rims that aren't on edges of image, so you'd only have to increase the height by 10 px.

- The frame could use a very slight, 1 px wide smoothed shadow around it, at very low opacity, to give it more sense of depth and a little contrast from the screens...

- The text on the monitors: I think you could remove the dark stroke from the text, or blur it out. You should try to make the text look more like it's projected on the screens, currently it just looks kinda pasted on...

- About the aircraft buttons, I think you should consider other colours for their backgrounds, the red & blue don't fit that well with the current colour scheme of the map. And center the aircrafts better in their squares.

- One more thing about the frame, I think you could slightly tint it more towards brown, to get a sort of dirty white/natural white hue. To give it a bit more contrast with the map image itself, to make it more obvious that the frame is separate from the screen image.

[koontz1973]

Before this turns into a what programme is better thread (again), any chance of a look over the map. Any more changes you want seeing to as I am now satisfied.

Oh yes. I can think of a few things.

- The white glows around the territory labels, also the grey glows on some... they would look better if you smooth them over a bit. Blur the glows with a gaussian blur of 2-4px radius.

- As for the frame... the rims between the monitors, in the legend, look a bit too thin at some places... it seems like on a real panel the monitors wouldn't be that close to each other. There's 3 vertical rims between monitors, not counting the ones on the edges, so if you widen all of those by 5 px each, you'd only have to increase the width of the image by 15 px. The same for the horizontal ones, except there's only 2 rims that aren't on edges of image, so you'd only have to increase the height by 10 px.

- The frame could use a very slight, 1 px wide smoothed shadow around it, at very low opacity, to give it more sense of depth and a little contrast from the screens...

- The text on the monitors: I think you could remove the dark stroke from the text, or blur it out. You should try to make the text look more like it's projected on the screens, currently it just looks kinda pasted on...

- About the aircraft buttons, I think you should consider other colours for their backgrounds, the red & blue don't fit that well with the current colour scheme of the map. And center the aircrafts better in their squares.

- One more thing about the frame, I think you could slightly tint it more towards brown, to get a sort of dirty white/natural white hue. To give it a bit more contrast with the map image itself, to make it more obvious that the frame is separate from the screen image.

The glows around the territ names are deliberately sharp. Text on monitors does not have a nice fuzzy glow around it but I need the glow there to distinguish between the 2 nations (part of the rules so necessary). So as text needs to be sharp, the glow also. Am I making myself clear here?

At one place, there is four rims vertical so to include the frame (5), that is a total of 25 pixels. I really do not want to go larger, but isaiah gave some extra pixels on the understanding that it was for text. Will ask if I can use that for larger borders. That should be enough to give the frame a larger feel to it, then I can space the middle ones out some.
What colours? The current ones work with the numbers. As for placing the aircraft toward the middle, you then get the 88s over them. It does look more centred when the numbers are there.
Can tint the frame more, but not towards the brown. It would be more towards the grey/cream look but that blends to well into the frame. As I said, the brown shouts rust, and rust on a navy ship looks like dry dock and not war zone. Can add the black.

[koontz1973]

Forgot to add this. Redid the text in the legend as it was getting to bad with all of the colouring I did.

Click image to enlarge.

[isaiah40]

At one place, there is four rims vertical so to include the frame (5), that is a total of 25 pixels. I really do not want to go larger, but isaiah gave some extra pixels on the understanding that it was for text. Will ask if I can use that for larger borders. That should be enough to give the frame a larger feel to it, then I can space the middle ones out some.

We will allow you up 880x845 on the large and 670x643 on the small. This should give you enough room.

[koontz1973]

That was quick. Not even had a chance to ask yet.

[natty dread]

The glows around the territ names are deliberately sharp. Text on monitors does not have a nice fuzzy glow around it but I need the glow there to distinguish between the 2 nations (part of the rules so necessary). So as text needs to be sharp, the glow also. Am I making myself clear here?

But they just don't look that good. If we're talking about 80:s monitors they usually didn't have text like that. Maybe you should invert the text & glow colours, that way it'd look a bit like subtitles on old analog tv:s?

Or better yet... give the text a black square backdrop, with about 50-60% opacity, and make the text white for UK and greenish for Argentina.

What colours? The current ones work with the numbers. As for placing the aircraft toward the middle, you then get the 88s over them. It does look more centred when the numbers are there.

Fair enough about the centering. As for colours, just try different combinations until you find something that flows well with the rest of the image.

Can tint the frame more, but not towards the brown. It would be more towards the grey/cream look but that blends to well into the frame.

That's basically what I said though. It's just that, to get to a creamy colour, you need to go towards brown. Not by much, just a veeeeeeeeeeeeeeery slight tinge of brown on a light grey. Perhaps even a very subtle gradient or solid noise between slightly greyer and slightly browner hues.

You got to stop taking things so literally, exaggerating everything I say... a lot of graphics tweaks are things of subtlety. When I tell you to "make it slightly towards brown" it doesn't mean you should tweak it all the way to the colour of bloody excrements. It just means to add very slight brown hues. You have 16 million colours to use, I'm sure you can find something in there that works for you.

[koontz1973]

You got to stop taking things so literally, exaggerating everything I say... a lot of graphics tweaks are things of subtlety. When I tell you to "make it slightly towards brown" it doesn't mean you should tweak it all the way to the colour of bloody excrements. It just means to add very slight brown hues. You have 16 million colours to use, I'm sure you can find something in there that works for you.

It is not that I take you so literally, it is that I get bloody annoyed with myself. I do know what you mean (sometimes) but other times, you come across as a guru that does not tell his students what is expected. That is why I get frustrated with you sometimes.

Just so you know, just because isaiah has given the extra room, I will not use it unless it become really worth it. And I do not see knobs and dials as worth it. But I have spaced out the screens now and will post a new image tonight or tomorrow.

[natty dread]

It is not that I take you so literally, it is that I get bloody annoyed with myself. I do know what you mean (sometimes) but other times, you come across as a guru that does not tell his students what is expected. That is why I get frustrated with you sometimes.

Well, maybe it's just me, but I think it's better to let you discover for yourself how to do things. I could give you specific step-by-step instructions on what to do, but then... would it really be your work anymore if you're just like an automaton following orders?

And I do give specific advice sometimes, like I did with the borders. But most of the time it's better for you to figure things out yourself. I've always been of the opinion that skill in graphics design is 10% talent and 90% experience. And you can't get that experience unless you experiment with things, and discover new things... It's all trial-and-error: you try something new, maybe it doesn't work, but then you've still learned something new, and maybe you can use it for something else in the future.

Just so you know, just because isaiah has given the extra room, I will not use it unless it become really worth it. And I do not see knobs and dials as worth it. But I have spaced out the screens now and will post a new image tonight or tomorrow.

I don't think you need to add the extra space for knobs and dials, just to get the monitors a bit farther away from each other.

[koontz1973]

Time for one more update tonight.

Click image to enlarge.

[natty dread]

I like those colours. The orange could maybe be a bit more to the red, as red & cyan are complementary colours...

Not totally red though, just a bit more red, kinda reddish orange?

[koontz1973]

Large869/833.

Click image to enlarge.

Small670/642

Click image to enlarge.

No matter, time for the small to be sorted.

[natty dread]

The colours are good.

One thing, the ships are getting kinda lost in the background... perhaps you could give them a slight green outer glow, kinda like they're being picked up by the radar?

[koontz1973]

The colours are good.

One thing, the ships are getting kinda lost in the background... perhaps you could give them a slight green outer glow, kinda like they're being picked up by the radar?

Said no before to the green glow (see earlier posts) but made them darker to show up better. Also did the same to the arrows as they had the same problem.

Click image to enlarge.

Click image to enlarge.

[natty dread]

The arrows still need work. The one on 1bn5 is practically invisible.

[koontz1973]

The arrows still need work. The one on 1bn5 is practically invisible.

More contrast and made the one you pointed out slightly longer.

Click image to enlarge.

Click image to enlarge.

[ndrs]

Make the arrow line thinner compared to the heads?

Try different colors/fonts for the texts on the small screen? Somehow they look pasted in front and not part of the screens. (I think the contrast is too big).
Increase the difference between headers and regular text?
If possible, keep the left margin consistent.

[koontz1973]

Make the arrow line thinner compared to the heads?

They are thinner. Not by much, but they are.

Try different colors/fonts for the texts on the small screen? Somehow they look pasted in front and not part of the screens. (I think the contrast is too big).

Already tried different colours and fonts and contrasts and all other tricks. If I place the screen layer on top of the text, it gets lost completely and cannot be seen. If I then reduce the opacity of the screen layers to show the text, we end up with the flat black.

Increase the difference between headers and regular text?

The headers are there for helping the players, but this goes against what a normal display would show. All the same style/font/size/etc. So I need something that helps players but allows the normal function to be show.

If possible, keep the left margin consistent.

Afraid not, because of the curve in the screens. To increase the size of screen to allow this to happen, I would go over the max size. Already been given extra pixels for this, and used them up.

Will have a go and see what I can do about the text pasting effect.

[natty dread]

Already tried different colours and fonts and contrasts and all other tricks. If I place the screen layer on top of the text, it gets lost completely and cannot be seen. If I then reduce the opacity of the screen layers to show the text, we end up with the flat black.

There's a certain trick you could try. It's a bit complicated but I can try to explain it...

It involves a filter called displace map. I used it on Nordic countries on the sea routes, to make them follow the contours of the bevel on the sea.

I was thinking you could use it on the text on the monitors, so the text on the edges would follow the contours of the screen edges. You know how old monitors & TV:s were kind of bubble shaped on the edges... I think this might make the text look more realistic.

Let me know if you want to try it.

[DiM]

Already tried different colours and fonts and contrasts and all other tricks. If I place the screen layer on top of the text, it gets lost completely and cannot be seen. If I then reduce the opacity of the screen layers to show the text, we end up with the flat black.

There's a certain trick you could try. It's a bit complicated but I can try to explain it...

It involves a filter called displace map. I used it on Nordic countries on the sea routes, to make them follow the contours of the bevel on the sea.

I was thinking you could use it on the text on the monitors, so the text on the edges would follow the contours of the screen edges. You know how old monitors & TV:s were kind of bubble shaped on the edges... I think this might make the text look more realistic.

Let me know if you want to try it.

neat idea, it would certainly ad more realism but it would also make the edge letters hard to read (depending on how strong the displacement is)

[koontz1973]

Already found a way. Slightly different from nattys but it seems to work. I am just trying to get the two maps the same before I post the images.

[koontz1973]

Been playing around now for nearly 2 hours. Everything I have tried, including nattys suggestion has caused the text in areas to become obscured. As it is the legend, and thus, needs to be clear, I will keep it as is unless someone can walk me through a new idea.