The Dawn Of Ages - Quenched

[Kabanellas]

Thanks Helix for the feedback:

You’re right, some borders are indeed a bit ‘pixelated’, I’ll take care of that later on. AS for the Dragon, I’ve already tried it black – didn’t like it. I chose to put the ships near Raider’s Haven (only), to mark pirates’ activities in and out of Skull Peninsula.
Concerning the mountain issue are we settled with option A? Does anyone would like to comment option B?

RedBaron:
I would really prefer not to close those south borders. I want to give the idea that those lands could continue indefinitely. I find this point very important for design purposes.
The ‘S’ stands for settlement
As for the Trees – I think the intention is well understood (or implicit) in the map… It would make sense to avoid extra legend……

[Industrial Helix]

Fair enough...

As for the mountains, I like the line design of A but would like to see the shading of B on them. Sorry to be difficult.

[Kabanellas]

well, after all this debate I think we should avoid any kind of big shading in the mountains, but here it is:

Click image to enlarge.

[Kabanellas]

Last Version:

Click image to enlarge.

[natty dread]

The shaded version looks better IMO.

Btw kaba, have you thought about my suggestion about the bows?

[Industrial Helix]

I think the shading looks pretty darn good, tbh. Lighten it a tad and I think you're golden.

[AndrewB]

I personally like the latest version, as is.

[skepticCS]

Personally, I was a fan of Option #3, but your latest version of Option #4 with the shaded mountains looks the best to me. It might also be nice to give the cliffs a similar texture to mountainsides so they look like cliffs jutting out of the sea rather than just shadows. If the latter is part of your general plan for the map's graphical feel, then just ignore me. I'm sure you're anxious to get this thing out of the graphics workshop anyway.

Overall, great looking map!

[Kabanellas]

Natty, I didn't forget your suggestion in the first time ... I did give it a shot, not particularly happy with the result though... I'll post it here.

Skeptic (version #3 - so did I).... and yes I pretty much want to end this never ending phase and get the stamp, letting Andrew step in and do his work

The problem is that we could go, graphically, in several directions here, with good (and not so good) results. All valid though, imo. But, keeping everybody happy will always be difficult, and speaking for myself, I've just laid my personal preferences at side on this one.

[Industrial Helix]

I think the style of the map is great and the latest version looks good in my opinion.

Outside of the style of things, there's still major pixelation on many of the water meets land borders and the cliffs.

Why is there an S next to a bunch of cities and houses? I took a scan though the legend and couldn't figure it out.

You might have to throw a "mountains and rivers are impassable" thing in there... though really, I think everyone on CC knows this by now. The mods made me do it on my maps.

[Kabanellas]

Helix, the 's' stands for settlement.... a feature asked by Mr.Benn or Ian (don't remember at this point); as for the pixelation, I'll take care of that, when we get this mountain issue finally over.
Legend - I'm really into, NOT adding anything more to the legend... even rookies will get the picture concerning that. Also, that would be the very least problem that a rookie will face when playing this map...

[Industrial Helix]

Gotcha... I don't really see why the S is necessary... its not like you reference settlements in the rules.

But yeah, I'm happy with the mountains. Not a word on them from me.

[skepticCS]

Gotcha... I don't really see why the S is necessary... its not like you reference settlements in the rules.

Yeah, I say either get rid of the "S" or make it a part of the legend. You wouldn't have to add it as a separate element on the legend, just put in the top left of each settlement icon in the legend like you do on the map. Just to keep things consistent.

[Kabanellas]

well, the 's' appears in every settlement inserted in the legend boards.....already...

[-=- Tanarri -=-]

Gotcha... I don't really see why the S is necessary... its not like you reference settlements in the rules.

Yeah, I say either get rid of the "S" or make it a part of the legend. You wouldn't have to add it as a separate element on the legend, just put in the top left of each settlement icon in the legend like you do on the map. Just to keep things consistent.

I have to say that knowing what the 'S' means makes it easier for me to read the map. With all the different symbols on the map, it's nice to be able to easily tell which are settlements and which are something else.

The only thing I might find a bit more useful as far as letters beside symbols go would be if there were a 'H' beside the human settlement and weapons, an 'E' beside the elves, and so on. It would make matching the correct settlement to the correct weapon type a bit easier. Though I'm guessing that playing a few games on the map would fix that problem a fair bit too.

[Industrial Helix]

Gotcha... I don't really see why the S is necessary... its not like you reference settlements in the rules.

Yeah, I say either get rid of the "S" or make it a part of the legend. You wouldn't have to add it as a separate element on the legend, just put in the top left of each settlement icon in the legend like you do on the map. Just to keep things consistent.

I have to say that knowing what the 'S' means makes it easier for me to read the map. With all the different symbols on the map, it's nice to be able to easily tell which are settlements and which are something else.

The only thing I might find a bit more useful as far as letters beside symbols go would be if there were a 'H' beside the human settlement and weapons, an 'E' beside the elves, and so on. It would make matching the correct settlement to the correct weapon type a bit easier. Though I'm guessing that playing a few games on the map would fix that problem a fair bit too.

Right, but the only reason you know that the S stands for settlement is because you read it in the thread. Nowhere in the map is it referenced.

The S is very redundant, I think.

[thenobodies80]

Kabanellas, you know that i love this map and i've really appreciated the hard work you have done to create a your own fantasy world without losing the Tolkien's spirit.
Said that, I completely agree, as explained earlier by RedBaron0, that on this map there are some things that aren't well explained because you consider them self explanatory.
I understand your point Kab, yet you must always bear in mind that what may seem obvious to you, might not be for someone else.
And the above posts are the evidence of it.
The fact that you have added a S, regardless that this is a request of a moderator or not, involves the fact that this S should be explained somewhere, otherwise it instead of being helpful and clarifying a aspect of the game to a future player, it becomes the very origin of the doubt.
Remember, everything you need to play on this map should appear on the map itself and must be clear, no matter if the player is the most experienced players on Conquer Club or the last arrived and that nothing should be taken for granted. There was a time when the men took for granted that they could not fly, until someone did it.

Going back through the thread I found the post you mention, but in my opinion iancanton gave you a different suggestion:

viewtopic.php?f=468&t=92583&start=135#p2223500

I think that one way to reduce the number of symbols is to use the same symbol for all the training grounds. That will get rid off 5 different symbols.

i'm thinking of a development of this idea: not the same symbol for the training grounds, but a symbol to identify something as a settlement easily, without having to look at the legend every time - perhaps elven town, orks' camp and the other settlements can each be surrounded by a circular wooden defensive palisade wall (the palisade in the link below is not circular, but it gives an idea of what i mean).

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/NORQtonbridge.htm

ian.

The difference is that the wooden palisade could be a graphics addition that visually explains that the symbols on the map are settlements.
But an S is just another symbol, and I don't think that it is so useful to prevent that a player must look at the legend every time.
Even more so if this symbol is not explained anywhere.
Work on the map kab, I know you have a great skill and resolve things like these for you is not a problem

Nobodies

[skepticCS]

well, the 's' appears in every settlement inserted in the legend boards.....already...

I was referring to the legend on the far left where you actually describe what each symbol means. I was saying if you wish to keep the S then add it there as well, just for consistency.

[Kabanellas]

Skeptic, got it …. I totally missed that…

Nobodies, I see your point, though the ‘S’ is more a graphical solution, something that all settlements could have in common (it could be a triangle or a circle) instead of drawing fences or walls to identify them.

Well, it seems to me that I have 2 options then:

A-Loose the ‘S’
B-Keep the ‘S’ explaining somewhere in the legend that it stands for Settlement

A or B?

[natty dread]

A. The legend is long enough as is...

[AndrewB]

A. Legend is too big as is. Plus this 'S' character does not sit well with the general map style, if you ask me.

[thenobodies80]

POLL RESULT

Which Version do you prefer (choose on Pg 18)

Version #1 - Shades on the Southwest side - (not completed).......5.........15%

Version #2 - Dark mountains......1.......3%

Version #3 - Original version (restyled)......8.........24%

Version #4 - Ridge line mountains - (not completed).......19........58%

Total votes : 33

[The Neon Peon]

Firstly, I'd like to say that I really like the way the mountains turned out. I voted against them in the poll, but looking back now, they look very nice. Well done.

I came up with an idea, if you have a spare bit of time. You have several cliffs on the map with pure black edges, which look good, but still stand out quite a bit. So I was thinking: What if instead of having the cliff edges black, you made them the same color as the rest of the map, then used the burn tool to make them darker?

I think it'd add a nice texture to them and make them fit the color scheme of the rest of the map (especially the new mountains) while keeping their current feel and style.

[skepticCS]

I vote for option A: Loose the 'S'. I think people can figure out what each icon means by simply reading it on the legend.

[Coleman]

A lot of the text is too light for me to easily read. See: The Lost Island, and the Sea Dragon explanation.

Everything else I have is game-play complaints but you passed game-play before I noticed this map so I'll keep them to myself, plus cairnsWK got away with loads of similar problems to the ones I'm seeing and I can't see why I should try to make the foundry hold you to a higher standard since those passed. I am just glad I have the BOB add-on.

Also has anyone told you the map is really yellow?

I'll probably never play this (unless it comes up in random) since it hurts my eyes. Good luck anyway, just not the kind of map for me.